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KJP

Cleveland: Public Square Redesign

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On 12/27/2018 at 8:14 AM, imjustinjk said:

 

That would be really cool. Our public square is so beautiful, but it’s being brought down largely by the vacant lots and to a minor extent that ugly blank wall haha. I’m not sure if the owners will ever do anything with that wall. Probably not financially worth the effort. 

 

The other side of the blank wall is a bank of elevators that line that entire side of the building. I can't imagine they would do that unless they thought another high rise would go in behind the Old Stone Church. Also, the Standard building is a great building to live in, my wife and I love it. 

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6 hours ago, smimes said:

 

The other side of the blank wall is a bank of elevators that line that entire side of the building. I can't imagine they would do that unless they thought another high rise would go in behind the Old Stone Church. Also, the Standard building is a great building to live in, my wife and I love it. 

 

Yeah I love the building and I understand it’s elevators. Just kind of unfortunate to have the huge blank wall. I live, work, and go to school downtown - so I’ve become fairly familiar with the “sore spots”. The wall isn’t a huge detractor, just kind of sad to loom over the public space.  It’s probably not worth the cost to cover it. But something like a large Cleveland/sports themed poster such as on TC by the stadiums would be nice. 

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Those jersey barriers aren't the only impediments in play.  Most of the square's north half is fenced off, with signs saying the grass needs to hibernate.  That grass kidney bean with the fake hills takes up a lot of room, which is now inaccessible to humans all winter every winter.  And why does the grass need protection?  Because they put it in the middle of Ontario Street, the direct pedestrian route between Tower City and the courts.  Now, for the betterment of grass, we're asked to take a circuitous route behind the ugly concrete retaining walls that hold up those fake hills.  Hills which-- this point bears emphasis-- are now closed off to the public all winter every winter.  And come spring, the precious grass will once again become Ontario Street, by necessity, and get torn up.  Pedestrians were an afterthought in this design.  They prioritized greenspace over humans.  Gotta quit doing that. 

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Why shouldn't LAND Studio be held responsible for a design that was deemed unsafe.  Also to note, removable bollards were initially designed to close off Superior for special events but Nora Romanoff was quoted as saying those were cut because they didn't figure out how to do that with the utilities running under the road. I find that hard to believe since additional monies were allotted for underground utilities to be rerouted for construction needs.  

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https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2019/03/04/happy-two-year-anniversary-public-square-jersey-barriers?utm_source=featurefollow&utm_medium=home&utm_campaign=hpfeatures&utm_content=HomeTopFeature

 

Happy Two Year Anniversary, Public Square Jersey Barriers!!!

Posted By Sam Allard on Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 12:47 pm

 

Sunday marked the two-year anniversary of the installation of concrete jersey barriers on Public Square, the ugly "safety" features that Frank Jackson has stubbornly refused to remove. 

The barriers border the 600-foot strip of Superior Avenue through the Square and were placed there because of Jackson's stated concerns about lone-wolf terrorists. These concerns were debunked by local terrorism experts and roundly mocked by City Council. 

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Watch the video in the first tweet and weep. Not a jersey barrier in sight.....

 

 

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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If those pics from Nice, France make you sick, these will make you weep.  I was is Israel last year and this was the scene.  In the video notice the tram goes by with NO BARRIERS whatsoever!  And it all works...bikes, pedestrians, trains...and it's busy day and night.  I asked and at least the few people I talked too said they knew of no accidents or incidents.  

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That's really nice. 

 

Notice that the guy on the bike is going faster than the tram.  Part of the reason why the tram is so safe is that it isn't moving that fast.

 

 

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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My mother-in-law and I went down for this. We arrived about 10am - line was already as shown in the picture above. Someone said the hosts were estimating a 3-4 hour wait. We waited about 30 minutes - at that point, based on how far we made it and how long the line was, I think 3-4 hours was accurate. So we went to West Side Market instead. But I did get some nice pictures on a beautiful morning. 

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Edited by Boomerang_Brian
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The Jersey Barriers are coming down!!! They are moving them to block the entrance to the road, so this might just be temporary. It looks like they are setting up for an event this weekend. 

 

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What a surprise. The square looks so much nicer without them.


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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The barriers should have never been placed into the design. Nor the center crosswalk when two perfectly designed ADA crosswalks were in the approved design.   This is embarrassing.

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19 hours ago, KJP said:

What a surprise. The square looks so much nicer without them.

 

And the irony of the Jackson administration claim that they are for "anti-terrorism".....every day on Public Square in Cleveland--jersey barriers.  Huge event where tens of thousands will all be in the same place in Public Square: "Take em out!" 🙄

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It costs $9800 every time the jersey barriers are removed.  That happened nine times in 2017, costing the city a total of $88,794.  Adding 2018 and 2019 ,with the same average, we are nearing almost $270,000.   The $400,000 City Council gave for maintenance to Public Square isn't going to go very far.

Edited by dave2017
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18 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

It's good that the local media is calling attention to this.  I'm hoping the pressure will result in permanent removal of the barriers.

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How much money could be saved for a couple of years of no salaried positions on The Group Plan and Public Square's CEO,  General Manager, and the Digital Marketing Director?   Shouldn't there be a fee for any event planned  for Public Square's use so that money could remedy these mistakes?  Lastly LAND Studio should help by taking the funds allocated for the costs on public art and use that money for fixing the design flaws that they were partially responsible for.    The other issue is that bicycle lanes remain out of play in any remedy to removal of the concrete barriers.   I would like to see another option to fix the mistakes made by Field Operations than their company.  

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Question.  Shouldn't the City and the Group Plan event planners be conscious of the fact they are wasting taxpayers monies every time they move the unnecessary  concrete barriers in Public Square. Move all these events to the underused Malls .Line the promenades with the tents.

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I'll start a crowd-funding campaign and get the money in six months...

 

A design ridding Public Square of the Jersey barriers just awaits funding

The Group Plan Commission reconvened its design team to take another look at one of downtown Cleveland's most controversial features.

https://www.crainscleveland.com/government/design-ridding-public-square-jersey-barriers-just-awaits-funding

 

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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"Not a City of Cleveland project"  Mayor Frank Jackson........What a jackass.  When is he going to leave?  Can we just take the barriers in the middle of the night?

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Completely agree with mack34.  I've been saying for years that Jackson is a dinosaur and lacks vision.  The city has the money to make this happen and is waiting for donations.  Seriously??  

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The city of Cleveland is also traditionally and notoriously cheap. For at least 50 years, it has never offered up its own money to instigate projects, including debt financing. Instead, it always tries to get someone else to pay for things through grants or other contributions. It is a contributing reason why so many public projects take so long to be realized.

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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On 9/6/2018 at 8:59 PM, KJP said:

The eagles have landed: Long-gone Public Square statues find new downtown home

https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2018/09/the_eagles_have_landed_long-go.html

 

Completely forgot to post these pics before. A couple of Friday nights ago we were coming out of the Ritz-Carlton at about 10pm and stumbled straight into the crew installing the eagles on their new perches!

 

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And they reckon that the last thing she saw in her life was
Sting, singing on the roof of the Barbican

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Looks like they might be installing walking paths in the central area of the northern half (around the stage). To me this was the biggest flaw from the original design. That's not counting the crosswalk fiasco... that was an issue created post completion. 

 

Anyone have info on this? Right now they are just digging up dirt on both sides about where people have naturally created trails to the center of public square.  

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10 hours ago, mack34 said:

.I was assuming they're just replacing the sod.  

 

Second look this afternoon and I think you're right. Wishful thinking on my part I guess.

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But where are the jersey barriers?

 

 

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Lawn portion of the Square to be shut down once again until Spring. 

 

Seems like suboptimal design to have a major portion of half the square totally off limits for what, 5 months of the year?

 

The grass needs to be protected because the designed layout did not take pedestrians' desired routes into effect.

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Cincinnati does this too every year at Washington Park. Maybe there's some creative solution, like lining a "path" through the middle of the lawn with different-colored Astroturf?


“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

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2 hours ago, PittsburgoDelendaEst said:

Lawn portion of the Square to be shut down once again until Spring. 

 

Seems like suboptimal design to have a major portion of half the square totally off limits for what, 5 months of the year?

 

The grass needs to be protected because the designed layout did not take pedestrians' desired routes into effect.

 

Yes, again shows how the design was fundamentally flawed even apart from the bus lane issue.  The lawn simply can't handle the foot traffic of everyone cutting across.  Not surprisingly, people take the most direct route to get where they need to go.  The landscape architects really should have recognized that.  I would have much preferred a design more in the nature of Rittenhouse Square in Philly, which feels totally active throughout the year.  

Edited by htsfan
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So I walked down this way to see if the drilling rigs were still on the Weston lots but they were already gone for the day. Here's a few pics of the Xmas decorations/ice rink and changes looking down Euclid (notice the May Company letters getting filled in up top)

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Edited by GISguy
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