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4 hours ago, SWOH said:

I'm really worried about how this storm recovery in going to look... it has the potential to be Katrina-level bad.

 

The worst of the tornadoes went from Brookville down through northern Trotwood, right past Salem Mall, over top of Hara Arena, down through north Main to the southern end of the Dixie strip and on out to the northern parts of old North Dayton to Page Manor and Beavercreek.

 

Most of these areas were already in rough shape... Hara Arena was falling down, Salem Mall was dead before dead malls were a thing, and a number of lower-rent apartment communities got knocked out. Brookville and Beavercreek will be fine, but this particular storm seemed to do a great job at hitting the poorest parts of the Dayton area, which is poor to start with, honestly.

 

People in these areas don't have good access to stores or anything really beyond where the RTA can go. They don't have much money, and many can't afford to lose a paycheck. 

The areas where the storms hit aren't the types of areas where people rebuild, the mentality is "cash in the insurance money and pull out" for those that own property and have insurance.

 

If Hara wasn't insured, I doubt anyone will rush to demolish it unless they are absolutely forced to do it, and even then it'll be a big legal battle. No one is going to want to pay those demolition fees, and whoever owns it now likely does not care if it continues to rot in that spot since they didn't care to demolish it earlier.

 

The apartments are a worry too. The Rivers Edge apartments seemed to be a real success, the owners came in and fixed up a number of buildings that were abandoned for years, creating over 500 nice, livable apartment units. They did a real service to the area and region by fixing those up a couple of years ago. Now every single building there is decimated... I don't know if they will be willing to rebuild.

 

To me it seems like these tornadoes are only going to make things worse in a part of town that really needs a lot of help and reinvestment.

 

I get the sentiment, but over 1,800 people died in Katrina. The resulting property damage and subsequent disinvestment might very well prove to be an epic catastrophe, but I think people forgot how utterly terrible and unprecedented Katrina was. 

 

It seems like tornadoes often hit poor and rural towns, so there should be some models out there for how these towns in Ohio can recover. Joplin, MO and any number of small towns that have been devastated in Oklahoma aren't exactly economically booming...This event might cause some reshuffling within metro Dayton, but I doubt it will have THAT big of an effect. Hopefully insurance and state/federal assistance will help take care of the bulk of repairs, but we all know how that can go. Regardless, hoping for the best for Dayton and its surrounding communities affected by this disaster. 

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23 hours ago, BigDipper 80 said:

The silver lining (if you can really call it that) is that the Miami Valley has such a glut of cheap houses that many of those affected may be able to move on and rebuild their lives quicker than when a disaster strikes in a more isolated location like Paradise or any number of tiny Kansas towns that get wiped off the map every few years. Hopefully folks are able to get new roofs over their heads fairly quickly and aren’t stuck living in FEMA trailers for a year or more.

 

True, there definitely is not a housing shortage here, plenty of places to go.

What it seems likely to do though is accelerate the exodus out of Trotwood, Northridge, and the like... can't see anybody living in Moss Creek with catastrophic damage rebuilding, for instance. It may sound harsh, but a lot of the people in Moss Creek that had $400k houses sitting on the market for $300k less than what it cost to build them in 1999 dollars were probably praying for something like this to happen so they could get out from under it with a full recoup of their investment (assuming they insured the house at its full build value). They got the short end of the stick there, not only because the community was never more than ~5% built out but also because the golf course ceased operation last year.

 

What would be great is if the exodus went to places that may be at the beginning stages of redevelopment like Five Oaks instead of further out into Dayton suburbia, or other metros, or even other states. Either way it'll be interesting to see how this shakes out.

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22 hours ago, edale said:

 

I get the sentiment, but over 1,800 people died in Katrina. The resulting property damage and subsequent disinvestment might very well prove to be an epic catastrophe, but I think people forgot how utterly terrible and unprecedented Katrina was. 

 

It seems like tornadoes often hit poor and rural towns, so there should be some models out there for how these towns in Ohio can recover. Joplin, MO and any number of small towns that have been devastated in Oklahoma aren't exactly economically booming...This event might cause some reshuffling within metro Dayton, but I doubt it will have THAT big of an effect. Hopefully insurance and state/federal assistance will help take care of the bulk of repairs, but we all know how that can go. Regardless, hoping for the best for Dayton and its surrounding communities affected by this disaster. 

 

Agreed, Puerto Rico on a smaller scale would be a more apt comparison. The damage is still very severe and very real though.

 

What concerns me is the fact that there's so many good, easy options for relocation nearby.

In a sense that is great, but what is going to keep someone in Trotwood when they have cash instead of their house and a decent market of houses nearby from which to choose in communities with better schools, better infrastructure, walkability, access to amenities, etc.? Nothing. 

Trotwood is a suburban food desert.

 

So even if the homeowners leave, what I'm hoping is that they are at least required to demolish their houses and prepare the demo site for re-use properly so there isn't a jumbled, dangerous mess left behind. No more Salem Mall site repeats. 

 

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I think they must have shown Moss Creek on the Columbus news... it was in bad shape from the storm damage. I was thinking "That's in Trotwood?" It didn't look like the rest of town. The houses were very large with big lots. So properties there were worth much less than they looked? They definitely looked like they were $400K+.

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^That is correct.

 

and it’s not really justifiable either... the development is in Northmont Schools, has good highway access, and is well built for suburbia at least. The quality of homes built there is good. But people are afraid of the Trotwood address and Trotwood city services.

 

It would take me a while to dig up the news trail, but if I remember correctly Moss Creek was built in the late 1990s because the owner of the farm on that site (last name is Oakes?) wrote in his will that the property was to be turned into a golf course. The owner was also wealthy, and had the money to commission Chi Chi Rodriguez to design the course. This is a stretch of my memory so all of this may be incorrect but I could swear the way he seeded the property the city of Trotwood was responsible for actually constructing the community. 

 

For instance, there’s no way this house only cost $365k to build:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7271-Wentworth-Way-Clayton-OH-45315/34981982_zpid/

 

It sold for $545k back in 2008, and at this point the development had already stalled out. The lot sold for $80k. 

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Why no tornado sirens? Dayton officials respond.

 

Some residents have asked Dayton leaders why they didn’t hear emergency warning sirens during Monday’s tornadoes.

 

The answer is simple: Dayton doesn’t have them.

 

About 20 years ago, Dayton decided to unplug its warning siren system on the grounds the it was too expensive to operate.

 

Cont


"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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^ Interesting that with no sirens, people were still all able to seek shelter and no on was killed. I think cell phone alerts have rendered sirens borderline obsolete. I'd wager that at almost all times, there are more people indoors or in a loud area out of earshot of sirens, than there are people away from the vicinity of a cell phone.

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For the initial hit they may suffice, but in two hours most modern phones are going to be dead without electricity, the network and wi-fi to keep the batteries from shooting directly to zero. Then it might as well be 1974.

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https://fox8.com/2019/06/10/did-you-feel-that-usgs-confirms-magnitude-4-0-earthquake-near-eastlake/

 

LIVE: Did you feel that? USGS confirms magnitude 4.0 earthquake near Eastlake

 

The USGS reports a magnitude 4.0 earthquake centered in Eastlake shook the area before 11 a.m. Monday.

 

Reports from people around Northeast Ohio, including Lake County, Euclid and Mentor reported they felt a building shake.

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Felt in Euclid.  Pretty strong rumble that made the old building I'm in make some very odd noises.  My first thought was that the old AC unit on the roof was failing, but that didn't explain the rumble in my feet.  Only lasted a few seconds though.

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Here is the current USGS Shakemap and "Did you feel it" map. Looks like it was felt pretty far and wide

 

 

06102019 4.0 Shake Map.jpg

06102019 4.0 Did you feel it.jpg

06102019 4.0 Did you feel it II.jpg

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39 minutes ago, musky said:

https://fox8.com/2019/06/10/did-you-feel-that-usgs-confirms-magnitude-4-0-earthquake-near-eastlake/

 

LIVE: Did you feel that? USGS confirms magnitude 4.0 earthquake near Eastlake

 

The USGS reports a magnitude 4.0 earthquake centered in Eastlake shook the area before 11 a.m. Monday.

 

Reports from people around Northeast Ohio, including Lake County, Euclid and Mentor reported they felt a building shake.

 

Felt it in Mayfield Heights.  It was faint, but enough that I assumed it was a small earthquake.

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Felt nothing at all in Mentor.   This is a pretty sturdy building with a lot of heavy equipment in it, though.   Just e-mailed our Willoughby plant to see if they did.

 

I was flying to Chicago for the 1986 one.   

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Because we're so desperate for rain!!! 😮  

 

***FLASH FLOOD WATCH***

 

A flash flood watch is in effect for our entire area Saturday afternoon through Monday night. Rainfall amounts of 2-3 inches with locally higher amounts of 4-6 inches are possible as several rounds of rain move across the region.

 

D9C2C8vW4AAXrPq?format=jpg&name=medium

Edited by KJP

"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Had to meet some folks on Kellys today, and when I left the dock I snapped these pictures.  Lake water levels are truly amazing with very little end in sight.

20190614_164803.jpg

20190614_164817.jpg

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15 minutes ago, surfohio said:

When the levels are this high, we should sell some to Arizona & China lol. 

 

Well China is actually building a 300-mile tunnel and planning a 600-mile tunnel coming off the Tibetan Pateau.  The volume of water that they're looking to divert is gigantic so it's unfortunately going to cause big environmental changes for the current outflow from the plateau into India, Bangladesh, etc.  

 

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It's raining in Columbus? While we've had more than our share of rain in Cleveland, most of the heavy stuff has been to our south. And today was a nice, warm, sunny day in Cleveland.

 

 

 


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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10 hours ago, KJP said:

It's raining in Columbus? While we've had more than our share of rain in Cleveland, most of the heavy stuff has been to our south. And today was a nice, warm, sunny day in Cleveland.

 

 

 

 

It ain't just Columbus, it's the whole damn state.  I went to Put-in-Bay several weeks ago and Lake Erie was basically in the parking lot for the Miller Ferry.


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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On 6/20/2019 at 10:43 AM, ColDayMan said:

 

It ain't just Columbus, it's the whole damn state.  I went to Put-in-Bay several weeks ago and Lake Erie was basically in the parking lot for the Miller Ferry.

 

Yes, it's been raining here a lot this spring too. And I'm familiar with the high lake levels living here in Greater Cleveland. But it wasn't raining when I posted that, which made me feel pretty good that it was sunny in Cleveland that day while it was storming down south. Yes I was enjoying our respite despite your pain. Sorry....a little bit. 🙂

 

Meanwhile, across the pond. My wife says it's been blazing hot in Ukraine and Georgia, where she's been since early June....

 

 

 


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Florida is a nice place to visit, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to live there...

 

 


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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So it's October yet it is in the 90s outside. Attention all UO building mechanicals and operations experts: Why does the air conditioning run so little as compared to when it is 90 in the summer? The lows really haven't been that low but obviously the nights are now longer and the sun angle is lower all day.

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6 hours ago, GCrites80s said:

So it's October yet it is in the 90s outside. Attention all UO building mechanicals and operations experts: Why does the air conditioning run so little as compared to when it is 90 in the summer? The lows really haven't been that low but obviously the nights are now longer and the sun angle is lower all day.

 

I rode my bike with my shirt off today.  It was 93F or so.  It didn't seem very hot.  The sun is quite obviously lower in the sky now, so that must explain it, along with the hour-longer head start the sun gets during June-Aug.  

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Few things are as terrifying as a tornado. And we're on the edge of the world's most prolific tornado breeding ground....

 

 

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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19 hours ago, KJP said:

Few things are as terrifying as a tornado. And we're on the edge of the world's most prolific tornado breeding ground....

 

 

 

I mean, that's really insane! And it shows you just how unique the conditions have to be for tornado-genesis and that they only exist in central US/Canada. Look at the latitude that the bulk of them are at..let's say 45'N. Moving East you have the Mediterranean Sea and then the Himalayan Mountains and Ocean until you are back at the Rocky Mountains. None of those are geographically conducive. 45'S...basically no land mass.

 

Fascinating!

 

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Edited by KJP
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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Cleveland weather in two photos taken 15 minutes apart today -- from Shaker Square to Public Square -- on the Rapid....

 

EJLWOQ8WoAAdbXc?format=jpg&name=4096x409

 

EJLWORDWsAA5NE5?format=jpg&name=4096x409


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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^ That was my exact experience on the commute this morning. Barely a scrap of snow on Playhouse Square, then a whiteout at E185th and beyond. 


And they reckon that the last thing she saw in her life was
Sting, singing on the roof of the Barbican

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14 minutes ago, roman totale XVII said:

^ That was my exact experience on the commute this morning. Barely a scrap of snow on Playhouse Square, then a whiteout at E185th and beyond. 

 

I went very early and went up Lakeshore/Vine, not too much s*** all the way out to Mentor.

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Views out my window here in Lakewood this morning....

 

EJLm7K-XkAEY2eD?format=jpg&name=4096x409

 

EJLm7loWoAAfR2g?format=jpg&name=4096x409


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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