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8 hours ago, X said:

 

I know you understand football better than me by a mile, but I would think that the bottom line for the GM is that he needs to put the right combination of people on the field together to win games and eventually championships.  Individual player and coach talent is a huge part of that, but it seems to me that it is not the only part.  Shouldn't a GM also be thinking about individual character and group culture?  About how the pieces fit together in terms of their relative strengths and weaknesses?  Or maybe that's all on the coaches and team captains?

 

Or maybe the problem needs to be solved at the next level up from the GM.....

 

Character matters, sure. But from all accounts, the "risky" players like Kareem Hunt have been exemplary teammates since coming to town. 

 

It's been previously reliable players: Randall, Garrett, etc. that have caused personnel issues 

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20 hours ago, X said:

 

Not saying I want to get rid of Dorsey, but some of this goes on him.  He has a penchant for getting talented players with character issues at a discount.  So we have a talented team losing at least partly because of character.  Maybe a stronger and more experienced coach can control those issues and build a winning culture, but it wasn't a good place to put a new head coach.  The whole thing is a mismatch and so ends up less than the sum of it's parts.

 

 

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Maybe a stronger and more experienced coach can control those issues and build a winning culture

This. They don't need a friend or someone to love them-they have friends/loved ones for that...they need a strong leader who can contain all of the different "strong" personalities. They need an alpha type that they will respect, otherwise you get chaos.  The new head coach needs to be a (sorry for mentioning him) Satan/Saban in this kind of situation. Someone to be feared and respected. JMHO.

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5 hours ago, Toddguy said:

This. They don't need a friend or someone to love them-they have friends/loved ones for that...they need a strong leader who can contain all of the different "strong" personalities. They need an alpha type that they will respect, otherwise you get chaos.  The new head coach needs to be a (sorry for mentioning him) Satan/Saban in this kind of situation. Someone to be feared and respected. JMHO.

 

Greg Williams was that personality as well....

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Freddie benching Njoku and Vernon today. Browns benching Freddie after the season. Fans benched the Browns a long time ago...

 

 


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Freddie's final nail in the coffin, summarized in just three tweets....

AND

AND

 

Edited by KJP

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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28 minutes ago, KJP said:
Freddie's final nail in the coffin, summarized in just three tweets....

AND

AND

 

Yeah, pretty much all of that^. This team, as constructed, can’t wait around for Kitchens to “figure it out” if ever; this team is seemingly talented enough to at least compete for a playoff spot right now, and the windows for certain players are open right now before guys need to get paid or let go and the Browns can’t waste these coming years. 

Go get a veteran HC with some playoff experience.

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I finally used one of my season tickets

for myself today.  

 

Had a great time in the first half, until the last minute and a half.

 

Im now bald because I ripped all of

my hair out

5B5FC085-4D2B-4742-BA20-95A8CF63028F.jpeg

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So Freddie dialed up that trick play on 3rd and 2 in the 1st half just before the 2 min warning. It didn't work. Not a good decision but not quite the end of the world either.  What is so confounding however, is hearing Freddie's press conference where he says if the play didn't lose so many yards he had planned on going for it on 4th down. 

 

How? How is that possible to even consider in that situation? 

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This pains me to say...Freddie is a Shaker guy, goes to my church, seems like a reallllly friendly person...but man, his coaching leaves so much to be desired.  His decisions and preparation resemble more of the car salesman that he was before he got into coaching and less of an NFL head coach. Why does he make things so hard?

 

 

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Hope that they get Ron Rivera...and LT Austin Jackson. 

Edited by KJP
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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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So here's the deal guys... I finally came around to agreeing that Freddie had to go... but I've seen some wildly reckless and ignorant opinions as to the new hire. 

 

In my opinion - with the roster we have, we should not even be entertaining the thought of Urban Meyer or Lincoln Riley. If we experiment on a coach with no NFL experience, we're in a worse boat than we were with Freddie. 

 

In my opinion, a culture change is more important than a schematic change, and I believe the latter will follow organically if the first is addressed. We need someone like Ron Rivera, Mike McCarthy, or Eric Bieniemy. Those three guys would be my short list - Bienimy has only two years of OC experience, but has been in the NFL for nearly a decade, most of which under Andy Reid. 

 

Fact is, we have OBJ, Landry, Chubb, Baker, Myles Garrett, and Kareem Hunt all entering their prime or in their prime next season - that cannot be wasted on someone who won't be a stabilizing influence on this team. 

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My concern with Mike McCarthy is that he seemed to lose the team in the last couple of years to the point that his players were openly mocking him. On the other hand, I was impressed that the Panthers players spoke out against firing of Ron Rivera. I don't know too much about Eric Bieniemy as a coach.

 

+++++++

 

Pretty serious stuff here about McCarthy....

 

But even in the best of times—when confetti should've still been stuck to their clothing—one person who was then close to Rodgers remembers he would regularly call to vent that McCarthy didn't have a clue what he was doing. He'd tell him that McCarthy frequently called the wrong play. That he used the wrong personnel. That they were running plays that worked one out of 50 times in practice. That McCarthy was a buffoon he was constantly bailing out.

 

"Mike has a low football IQ, and that used to always bother Aaron," this source says. "He'd say Mike has one of the lowest IQs, if not the lowest IQ, of any coach he's ever had."

Adds a personnel man who worked for the Packers at the time: "He's not going to respect you if he thinks he's smarter than you."

 

And then, as time moved on and the team plateaued, the facade fell away. Cracks in the foundation of this arranged marriage became impossible to ignore.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2828649-what-happened-in-green-bay.amp.html

 

But there's this article, but it also poses some tough questions about McCarthy....

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robreischel/2019/12/18/many-green-bay-packers-hope-mike-mccarthy-lands-another-head-coaching-job/

Edited by KJP

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Mcarthy is not the right choice. He is a decent coach and would certainly improve the Brown's fortunes but you have to think that he may not have much left in the tank for another run. He just seemed to run out of energy the last few years in GB.

 

Rivera would be a better choice for Cleveland. He put together a consistent winner before injuries in Carolina with key players ran their course.

 

McDaniels is not coming to Cleveland. Did not come last year, will not come this year either.

 

Bienemy would be a good choice. Andy Reid's acolytes seem to do well.  The question is whether he has better options than the Browns. Yes, the talent is much improved, but the short lease and constant coaching changes that ownership makes does not do well for continuity and all things being equal would make it a less attractive opportunity.

 

 

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The Mike McCarthy-less Packers won 13 games this year. I'd caution anybody interviewing him for another job. I'd take Rivera over him for sure.

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Word on the street is that McCarthy bunkered himself and his assistants in Georgia and did nothing but watch football, identifying new schemes and approaches.  The knock on him was that the game passed him by.  If he acknowledged that and works to re invent his approach, then he is fine. He already showed he could run a group of men and lead them to success 

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I am more interested in the power struggle between Dorsey and DePodesta.  "Football instincts" vs "Moneyball".  

 

An ideal situation is a combination of both gut feel from experience and analytics, but the Haslams have not shown any ability to create a decent situation, much less of an ideal one.

 

 

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Can we add trading away draft pics to move up to get Calloway as another blunder?

He had great hits, awful misses (some were safe bets, some were just gambles) but most were mediocre.

 

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Per Mary Kay’s article DePodesta isn’t taking over football ops so that potentially leaves the door open for McDaniels to bring his own GM or whomever they hire to either have greater roster authority or bring someone with them who will🤷‍♂️

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So Dorsey wanted to keep Kitchens?? Should I believe that? 


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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From reports Kitchen did seem genuinely surprised that he was being let go, He felt the organization was behind him,  maybe he was talking to Dorsey who Felt he could sell the Haslam’s on one more season with Kitchens.

Maybe?  Im speculating

Edited by punch

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And the ongoing destruction of the once great Cleveland Browns continues under the Haslams, who have to be some of the worst owners of a professional sports franchise in America.

 

How many times have we been through this? Is this time around supposed to give us a different result? I’ll bet a six pack that within the next two years we’ll be doing this same weak, old, tired dance all over again, no matter who they hire as the new coach and GM as long as the Haslams own the team

 

 

Edited by Oldmanladyluck
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If they hire anyone other than McCarthy, McDaniels or Meyer (people who have run an organization before), we will be doing this all over again. This job is not cut out for a coordinator to try to take a step up

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The good thing is that it is an attractive job for the right coach.  Dorsey did not leave the cubbard bare!  They do have a QB in my opinion, lot's of draft picks and an unexpected higher first round pick.  With the right coach, this team could win 10 games next season.  

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The split between Dorsey and the Browns suggests that Hazlam will be dangling the carrot of more autonomy to a new incoming coach.  It can’t be the promise of beautiful  weather or a pedigree of football greatness that will attract a new head coach to CLE. So what then? Either new opportunity or the allure of more control. But the Browns don’t have time for another rookie coach to “learn the job” and develop into it over several seasons.  They do have talent in many key positions which needs good coaching, discipline and a positive professional culture.  For those reasons,  I agree  the Browns must get a proven  NFL coach  with winning experience (or a perennial champion college head coach, like an Urban Meyer) .  The NFL is a copycat league and the recent  trendy head coaching picks have been young former offensive coordinators.  . But the Browns need “sure-fire” leadership and know-how - not another rookie head coach who needs time for growing pains. . But who is left “out there” that fills the description and will commit to Cleveland?  Does a championship-less Jason  Garrett qualify? He had an 83-66 record with the Cowboys. And It’s easy to imagine Jerry Jones recommending him to his good friend Jimmy.  Whoever it is, a once proud franchise and exceptional fan base deserve the real deal this time around. 

 

Edited by CleveFan

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I'd like to hear some perspective on what current NFL players thought about playing for Urban. He reminds me of lot of Belichik, ie a cerebral, borderline sociopath. 

 

It's clear to me the Browns are in desperate need of players - and staff - with strong integrity and commitment. No more clownshow. 

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I believe Urban is retired from coaching for health reasons. I can maybe see him being GM if he is interested in putting the pieces together of a coaching staff and drafting the players he likes.  That doesn’t seem like a huge leap to me especially since he is so familiar with all the players being drafted. 

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Urban pretty much coached supreme elite talent at his time at OSU.  All of the best of the best at that rank.  He managed to get them to perform for him.  I am not a fan of the guy as a person, i think he is all about him (the anti Tressel, who i love)...and i think he mismanaged that assistant coach situation and has dirt on his hands from that. I alos believe he uses the health issue to bounce from his job and the scrutiny when his image is at question.   However, when it comes to the NFL, there is no points for having a good person as coach.  Its a bottom line business and the browns bottomed out a long time ago, so even hiring a guy like Urb can only make the franchise better.  I hope they are considering it.  If they hire Daboll, Roman or Saleh, part of me will die inside.

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