Cleveland: Historic Photos

[KJP 9,370]

I have a photo somewhere of the Cuyahoga Valley Line train behind #4070 boarding passengers at that park, with the C&O locomotive to the left. Where you shot that picture is where they used to board CVL in the mid-1970s. I rode it in the summer of 1976. I see a fence around the C&O loco in your photo, but I remember climbing on it without a fence being there. Perhaps the fence was added later?

[bigbrian24 25]

New York central railroad ALCO (American locomotive company)FP-A and B units (b units had no cab control) pulling a westbound freight past the site of the old original 1866 built union station for Cleveland. Where the parking lot is. Circa 1960 or 61.  Bottoms pics are of the station. Second pic is looking west from top of the hill and road to get down in the parking bowl nowadays. Third pic is how it looked before being demolished in 1959 looking south east.

Edited October 16, 2019 by bigbrian24

[mack34 872]

17 minutes ago, bigbrian24 said:

Who remembers this Chesapeake & Ohio steam engine that used to sit at brookside park by the zoo. It was eventually removed in the early 80s because of vandalism. To the Chessie system railroad née B&O rr. Clark ave. yard and sat for awhile till the early 90s. When the Illinois railway museum acquired and removed it.

Oh jeez.....I used to play CYO baseball down there in the mid 70's.  We played on that train all day long!!!

[bigbrian24 25]

Just now, KJP said:

I have a photo somewhere of the Cuyahoga Valley Line train behind #4070 boarding passengers at that park, with the C&O locomotive to the left. Where you shot that picture is where they used to board CVL in the mid-1970s. I rode it in the summer of 1976. I see a fence around the C&O loco in your photo, but I remember climbing on it without a fence being there. Perhaps the fence was added later?

 Yes it was added shortly before they removed the engine.so no one could climb on it when they were getting it prepared to move. I Remember  climbing on it as a kid in the early 80s too. These photos are all found from the internet. Lots of searching. Huge fan of Cleveland and rail history. Way b4 my time. I have a big roll of train movements from the dispatchers office from C.U.T from the early 50s. I’m sure you would love to check out. Fascinating how many train movements were made in one day.

[bigbrian24 25]

Pennsylvania railroad Kinsman ave. Roundhouse  1940s. Don’t know year it was demolished?  Kinsman ave. Bridge in background. This is the area of Cleveland’s forgotten triangle.The new CMHA headquarters is built on the site of the roundhouse. When the New York central and Pennsylvania rr. Merged in Feb 1968 to become Penn central rr.  Kinsman yard was downgraded basically to nothing but a few storage tracks and the mainline by 1969 and 70. It was a major yard for the Pennsylvania. 

[bigbrian24 25]

New York central Beeliner service to points south. W25th st rapid station pic was taken from circa 1967. Columbus rd. Lift bridge to the right of the train.

[bigbrian24 25]

Nickel plate road freight train headed eastbound above the old central furnace of American steel and wire co.late 1950s.Taken from east ninth bridge that crossed the Cleveland union terminal tracks below and the rapid. The bridge was used for access to the nickel plate roads freight house along commercial rd. To the west. You can also see one of the catenary structures that was used to hold up the wires for the electric locos to get power from. Bottom middle right foreground. Standard oils first refinery #1 top left of pic. Shutdown 1969.  Edit. Central furnace was shut down in 1979 and subsequently demolished, provided pig iron  for engine blocks most of it  for ford.

Edited October 17, 2019 by bigbrian24

[KJP 9,370]

Some great photos. The PRR Kinsman Yard was closed almost immediately after PRR and New York Central merged. And I believe the roundhouse was demolished well before that, probably in the mid-1950s. The yard's coal tower stood until 1975 and here's another photo of the roundhouse with Kinsman Avenue behind (see photo below).

 

The New York Central Beeliner was the last Cleveland-Columbus passenger rail service that operated, continuing right up until the night before Amtrak, April 30, 1971. But in December 1967, a few months after I was born, more substantial trains still traveled past the CTS station at Lorain and West 25th, like the Chicago-New York City "Chicagoan" which was one of the few daytime Chi-NYC trains still operating in the late 1960s. So it got photographed a lot in and around Cleveland.

[ydard 71]

On ‎10‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 5:48 PM, bigbrian24 said:

And another view. Track ave. In background.

I find these pictures fascinating.  I had to google to find out where this station was located on on E. 55th.  (Above the current intersection of McBride and Track, I reckon).   It astonishing how much has been torn down.  Track is now basically empty.  Does anyone know what are (or were) the large structures on the horizon?   There's nothing there now....

[mrnyc 454]

very cool finds!

 

more ...

 

 

 

 

 

[musky 204]

On 10/16/2019 at 6:31 PM, mack34 said:

Oh jeez.....I used to play CYO baseball down there in the mid 70's.  We played on that train all day long!!!

 

I played on the train, too. We lived near Second District, so this was just a bike ride away

[KJP 9,370]

 

[mrclifton88 603]

I recently came into possession of some pretty cool large prints from various years from a friend who worked for an architect.  I took pictures of them with my phone so I apologize if the quality isn't the best, they are too big to capture any other way!  I have tried to date them based on what buildings I see or don't see.  The black and white is from about 1960 (The only modern buildings seem to be 55 PS and 1717 E 9th).  The next two appear to be from the same day in about 1973/4?  (You can see the Bond Court under construction).  Lastly is one from maybe 1990-1992?  (You can see gateway under construction).  Cool stuff in here to see, enjoy!

Edited October 31, 2019 by mrclifton88

[bumsquare 184]

2 hours ago, mrclifton88 said:

I recently came into possession of some pretty cool large prints from various years from a friend who worked for an architect.  I took pictures of them with my phone so I apologize if the quality isn't the best, they are too big to capture any other way!  I have tried to date them based on what buildings I see or don't see.  The black and white is from about 1960 (The only modern buildings seem to be 55 PS and 1717 E 9th).  The next two appear to be from the same day in about 1973/4?  (You can see the Bond Court under construction).  Lastly is one from maybe 1990-1992?  (You can see gateway under construction).  Cool stuff in here to see, enjoy!

Dang, hard to believe what we have now on the east side of downtown is better than what we had in 1960. I guess I didn’t realize how much was already gone by then. 

[mrclifton88 603]

@bumsquare I know... I always thought Erieview was the beginning of the leveling but if you look at the first picture most of that area hasn't even been cleared yet.  Its current day CSU that is nothing but parking.

 

[Htsguy 751]

14 hours ago, bumsquare said:

Dang, hard to believe what we have now on the east side of downtown is better than what we had in 1960. I guess I didn’t realize how much was already gone by then. 

Agree 100%.  The only down side is that Euclid was a much better shopping district back then.

[KJP 9,370]

Need a recent view. Unfortunately the view from Google doesn't include the Lumen yet. But it does show lots of low-level infill around CSU....

[bumsquare 184]

14 minutes ago, KJP said:

Need a recent view. Unfortunately the view from Google doesn't include the Lumen yet. But it does show lots of low-level infill around CSU....

It would be nice to swap out some of those beige, vinyl-sided abortions for the 4 story Victorian brick apartment houses but oh well. 

[KJP 9,370]

 

[MyTwoSense 759]

On 10/16/2019 at 6:03 PM, bigbrian24 said:

Erie Lackawanna commuter train to Youngstown is going eastbound past E34th rapid station. Circa 1969. First pic is the train coming off the Cleveland union terminal tracks. On to its own tracks which made a connection to its own yard and station at E55th. Second pic is heading past 34th station eastbound under I-77. Eventually veering off to right onto the mahoning secondary. Out of view in the distance would become the rapids E55th storage yard.

 

 

Man I miss those PCC cars.  LOL  This is a great shot.

[Barneyboy 44]

With all the conjecture surrounding what will potentially fill the warehouse district void in the SW HQ campus, I think of what was lost there, and attempt to soothe my melancholy with rationale.

A great many structures hadn't been maintained and were derelict or were primitive fire hazards. Others had outlived their purpose or simply weren't as utilitarian as a surface parking lot. There were however two structures of which I especially rue their demise. The Blackstone Block and the Weideman  Co. warehouse. If I were able to choose out of all the many historic buildings in the warehouse district to resurrect from the past, it would be these. 

[MyTwoSense 759]

19 minutes ago, Barneyboy said:

With all the conjecture surrounding what will potentially fill the warehouse district void in the SW HQ campus, I think of what was lost there, and attempt to soothe my melancholy with rationale.

A great many structures hadn't been maintained and were derelict or were primitive fire hazards. Others had outlived their purpose or simply weren't as utilitarian as a surface parking lot. There were however two structures of which I especially rue their demise. The Blackstone Block and the Weideman  Co. warehouse. If I were able to choose out of all the many historic buildings in the warehouse district to resurrect from the past, it would be these. 

 

 

 

These Victorian era buildings are a huge loss.

 

 

[ryanfrazier 43]

I had never seen those buildings before, what a mistake in tearing them down. 

[MyTwoSense 759]

2 hours ago, ryanfrazier said:

I had never seen those buildings before, what a mistake in tearing them down. 

It wasn't a mistake.  It was progress.  Not every building with a beautiful facade has a functional interior.  Not every building we want saved, may not be a candidate for restoration/renovation due to the manner in which constructed.

 

 

[JohnCurran1996 15]

24 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

It wasn't a mistake.  It was progress.  Not every building with a beautiful facade has a functional interior.  Not every building we want saved, may not be a candidate for restoration/renovation due to the manner in which constructed.

 

 

So much progress, I love all those surface lots. I think we should demolish terminal tower as well, it’s too old and a gas station would be a better use for that parcel. Demo first, think later! 

[ryanfrazier 43]

26 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

It wasn't a mistake.  It was progress.  Not every building with a beautiful facade has a functional interior.  Not every building we want saved, may not be a candidate for restoration/renovation due to the manner in which constructed.

 

 

I obviously have no first-hand knowledge of these buildings’ interiors or structural issues, but I think your sentiment could be applied to any of the beautiful buildings in the Warehouse District. I’m glad that people put the effort into preserving and restoring some of those structures. Perhaps if these buildings had been replaced by something better I could I agree with you, but they weren’t. 

[MyTwoSense 759]

Just now, JohnCurran1996 said:

So much progress, I love all those surface lots. I think we should demolish terminal tower as well, it’s too old and a gas station would be a better use for that parcel. Demo first, think later! 

I love sarcasm as much as anyone on this board.  But this post is out of context.  When demolished I do not believe that owners thought or planned that their property(ies) would still be parking lots at this date and time.

 

In addition, in order to make that claim, you would need to know the OVERALL condition of each building at the time of demo.

So let me ask a a few questions, questions that I think are fair.  

1. Where buildings up to code?
2. Where the buildings in a state that they could be renovated/restored? 
3. Where the buildings in a state that if a candidate for renovation/restoration, they could obtain a tenant/tenants and make a ROI?
4. What is the price to renovate/restore? 

 

It's not about solely being old.  Anyone here will tell you I prefer pre war building to new builds ANY DAY.

[JohnCurran1996 15]

I’m just bitter at times about seeing so much loss 

Edited November 9, 2019 by JohnCurran1996
Wrong

[MyTwoSense 759]

1 minute ago, JohnCurran1996 said:

Ever heard of partial demolition? Leave the facade up knock down the interior and call it an addition, I’ve seen it done in other countries 

I'll answer your question, even if you didnt answer mine. 

 

Yes.  But do we know if the and parts of the buildings could be saved?  Does anyone know if saved, they could be rented/occupied?  I don't like seeing those parking lots, and I'm older than most of the people on this board, so I've seen them LONGER.

 

However, unless you're the owner or know the owner, how can ANY OF US know FIRST hand what each building condition was at the time of demo???

[E Rocc 265]

20 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

I'll answer your question, even if you didnt answer mine. 

 

Yes.  But do we know if the and parts of the buildings could be saved?  Does anyone know if saved, they could be rented/occupied?  I don't like seeing those parking lots, and I'm older than most of the people on this board, so I've seen them LONGER.

 

However, unless you're the owner or know the owner, how can ANY OF US know FIRST hand what each building condition was at the time of demo???

 

This.    It falls under my old saying "It always sounds doable to those who don't have to do it".

 

It's hardly uncommon for a building to be in a condition where repairing it would cost more than its repaired value.   Especially if black mold and/or asbestos are involved.

 

Edited November 9, 2019 by E Rocc

[Cleburger 553]

I'm so glad that the government and societies of Europe put more emphasis on saving old buildings!  

[KJP 9,370]

 

[Pugu 394]

^That is far more interesting than whatever is there now. Whatever it is, its so bland, I can't even think whats on that corner other than the back of the Huntington Bldg.

[mrnyc 454]

^ i remember that building, when did it come down? 

 

anyone know?

 

***

 

not sure if this is real, probably not its an etsy,

but even if not its nicely done

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by mrnyc

[MayDay 1,009]

9 hours ago, Pugu said:

^That is far more interesting than whatever is there now. Whatever it is, its so bland, I can't even think whats on that corner other than the back of the Huntington Bldg.

The Roxy was located where PNC (Previously National City/Pittsburgh Not Cleveland) Center in on East Ninth across from the Centennial (Huntington).

[skiwest 211]

When the National CIty building was built, they had a restaurant on the lower level which was cleverly called the Roxy Bar and Grille.

[Htsguy 751]

9 hours ago, Pugu said:

^That is far more interesting than whatever is there now. Whatever it is, its so bland, I can't even think whats on that corner other than the back of the Huntington Bldg.

PNC (National City) not Huntington (Union Commerce back then).  It was actually a semi trashy stretch on Cleveland's major north south route.  However, as a little kid I always looked forward to passing the Roxy and marveling at those "ladies".

[mrnyc 454]

35 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

^ i remember that building, when did it come down? 

 

anyone know?

 

 

 

 

so for the record it turns out it came down in 1978 and the national city building was completed in 1980.

[KJP 9,370]

Then and now.  When we accommodate too many cars to try and sustain the city, we end up losing the city....

 

[MyTwoSense 759]

38 minutes ago, KJP said:

Then and now.  When we accommodate too many cars to try and sustain the city, we end up losing the city....

 

This block and Chester, near East 9-13th, could play host to several office, hotel or apartment bldgs with street level retail.  Instead of one use parking garages.