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C-Dawg

Yet Another Reason to Love Fox News...

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He tore Coakley to shreds when Scott Brown beat her.  But he sure seems to lean left, most of the time.

 

Facts lean left. So does humor, apparently. Whereas grouchiness tends to lean right, especially the curmudgeonly variety.

 

There may have been some truth to the humor part once.  Not since "political correctness" emerged. 

 

Indeed, un-PC humor and "disaster jokes" have replaced dirty jokes where shock value is concerned.

 

It is really hard to explain and maybe it just does come down to a "I know it when I see it" test, but there is a difference between what might be called poking fun "un-PC" humor and flat out mean-spirited "un-PC" humor.  Throwing a banana at a black person might be funny to some and is definitely not PC, but it is also done in a very mean-spirited way and rightfully draws scorn.  Then there is the type of non-PC humor you see on a show like Family Guy, written and created by Seth McFarlane, who undoubtedly leans left.  Seth McFarlane makes the most offensive and racist jokes you could possibly imagine, yet you don't see his shows getting cancelled.  That's because he does it in a poking fun kind of way, and the times when it is not done in that fashion it really is the equivalent of pulling the bully's pants down in front of all the other kids on the playground...... like what Stewart does to Fox News every night.

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Please.  Don Rickles has made a 40+ year career in comedy by making racist jokes.  He even made a racist joke about Obama that was really harsh

 

Back on topic, I think the point is that journalistic integrity has been replaced by the need to generate ratings above all else.  Left, right and all slivers in between seem to have carved out their niche of viewers and are content in generating programming, with hosts, guests & discussion that will keep them tuning in.  It's like they can't risk alienating a single viewer.

 

It's puzzling/troubling how both networks can cover a topic like Benghazi/Healthcare Reform/Koch Brothers, etc and present two TOTALLY opposite viewpoints.  At this point, neither has any credibility.  Which disappoints me so much that CNN hasn't been able to capitalize on the middle ground with quality news programming

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Daniel Tosh is mean-spirited and offensive. I agree he gets away with a ton of stuff because his target audience is an echo chamber...that rape joke wasn't funny and was pretty sickening:

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/11/why-daniel-tosh-s-rape-joke-at-the-laugh-factory-wasn-t-funny.html

 

He has no moral compass and exploits the less influential. That's his style of comedy and I've never liked that stuff. The best comedy doesn't come from the elites, it comes from guys with grit (Richard Pryor, etc.). Daniel Tosh reminds me of some of the rich white dudes in San Francisco who make fun of homeless black men and Vietnam vets in the Tenderloin. There is absolutely nothing funny about laughing at the less fortunate and less powerful in this world. Guys who exploit this type of comedy think they're being clever, but they're not. Daniel Tosh reminds me of Greg Gopman- socially liberal, but intolerant and filled with hate. There are sadly a good number of these types in California, and they don't represent the values this state is supposed to espouse:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/11/angelhack-san-francisco_n_4428104.html

http://valleywag.gawker.com/homeless-hater-greg-gopman-sued-for-abusing-funds-and-t-1530897282

 

Tosh is a douche and bully, but since he has a soft, non-threatening "nice guy" voice and is a, tall, skinny white dude, he can get away with a lot. America still largely gives a pass to those kinds of people. It's not right, but it explains how he can be more exploitative than others. I think if a black man said even half the stuff that Daniel Tosh says (especially the rape jokes), he'd be railroaded out of town. We still live in a society of double-standards. "Oh, Daniel Tosh looks like such a frat boy next door and is so clean-cut. He could never be a racist, sexist, homophobic monster." Well, there is some evidence that he is, and it goes beyond being "funny." He just seems like a mean person. With comedy, it can be tough to draw that line, but I think Tosh has long been on the wrong side of that line.

 

Louis CK gets away with a lot because, well, he's damn funny. :wink: As a bald, frumpy, middle-aged man in America, he is getting no breaks from anybody. He captures middle-age rage better than other comedians right now. His comedy comes from the heart and he is not the type of guy anybody looks up to and says, "I hope I age like that." He is fully self-aware and tapped into the masses of people America has effectively thrown to the wolves. The real genius is that anybody can find some truth in his work even if it doesn't directly relate to them. He's good at observation and he doesn't have the ego of guys like Tosh.

 

Colbert gets away with a lot too because he is hilarious! It's classic satire, which I've always found to be the best comedy.

 

I guess what I'm saying is there is a big difference between stuff like Daniel Tosh and Fox News compared to Louis CK, Stephen Colbert, or Jon Stewart. Good comedy has always been political (Chappelle's Show brought out all sorts of issues in this country), and there is a way to do it without being a douchebag. You don't have to be politically correct (that stuff is wholly lame). You just have to hit the right targets and be fair.

 

But I do think there is a tendency for liberals to overlook and forgive their own. Racism, classism, and sexism know no political boundaries. There are plenty of racist and classist liberals in places like California and New York. They donate to the Democratic Party, but they're far from "progressive" or "tolerant." In fact, the most racist and classist stuff I've heard in my life has come from some so-called liberals in San Francisco. I don't hear Republican friends in Pacific Heights or Orange County say this stuff (SF and OC GOP tend to be pretty mellow). It's usually a self-identified Democrat...in these cases, the liberalism is all an act! It's to trick people and get in bed with the political power brokers in San Francisco and Los Angeles. There are good people and bad people in both parties. I wouldn't be surprised if Tosh is a card-carrying member of the Democratic Party...people assume he's a Republican since a lot of his audience are frat guys in middle America, but I have doubts. Conversely, I know lots of elite Democrats who watch Fox News and CNBC because it speaks to them as "makers."

 

While we are dealing with political stereotypes in this thread, keep in mind there are a lot of terrible people on both sides of the political spectrum. That's how this nation has gotten so ugly and "us versus them." Both Republicans and Democrats want it this way. They are two sides of the same elitist coin. It keeps third parties and independents out...we've got a lot of terrible leadership that is getting a pass in our slow pitch news media. Shame on politicians who prey on this and shame on media outlets who let this happen. And also, shame on the apathetic people who aren't even paying attention to what is going on around them. I'm amazed how few people vote on ballot issues. That stuff immediately and directly has an effect on your life. These aren't laws and regulations passed in far away places. They're right down the street...

 

And with the proliferation of Buzzfeed type of sites, it's only going to get worse. I do love the video journalism that Vice is doing (reminds me a lot of old school 60 Minutes), but I think it's obvious it can never replace solid local and national newsrooms. Still, it's a lot better than any of the other social-sharing blog news out there today...

 

Vice has stepped up big since its days as a Brooklyn hipster ranking site. I agree it's a small glimmer of hope.

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Left, right and all slivers in between seem to have carved out their niche of viewers and are content in generating programming, with hosts, guests & discussion that will keep them tuning in.  It's like they can't risk alienating a single viewer.

 

It's puzzling/troubling how both networks can cover a topic like Benghazi/Healthcare Reform/Koch Brothers, etc and present two TOTALLY opposite viewpoints.  At this point, neither has any credibility.

 

Second this. Well said.

 

It's all about the niche focus now. That's how you get social media shares. Buzzfeed perfected this.

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He tore Coakley to shreds when Scott Brown beat her.  But he sure seems to lean left, most of the time.

 

Facts lean left. So does humor, apparently. Whereas grouchiness tends to lean right, especially the curmudgeonly variety.

 

Do facts lean left or do liers lean right?  Lately, I think I'd go with the latter.  And the proliferation of far right (and to a lesser extent left) wing websites has allowed many of the lies to gain traction and stick around far longer than they probably would have in the past.  I mean, the birther movement.  Honestly.  According the Gallup in April 2011, 44% of the population was either unsure or didn't believe President Obama was born in the United States.  These fringe websites provide what looks like evidence to many people, but in reality they are just baseless accusations and attempts to correlate unrelated facts.

 

The doubts about Obama's birthplace are his own fault.  Personally, I believe he was born in Hawaii, but it seems pretty clear that when it's been to his benefit to have people think he was born in Kenya or was actually Indonesian, he's been willing to let them. 

 

As for the websites, two major "scoops" set the stage for that.  The first, the Lewinsky affair, was simply a case of the media not talking about something most of them at least knew was there.  The second, the Sixty Minutes memos, happened almost in real time.  As these stories benefited the right, use of the 'net became more popular there.  Plus, the original computer subculture leaned libertarian  or even minanarchist.

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But I do think there is a tendency for liberals to overlook and forgive their own. Racism, classism, and sexism know no political boundaries. There are plenty of racist and classist liberals in places like California and New York. They donate to the Democratic Party, but they're far from "progressive" or "tolerant." In fact, the most racist and classist stuff I've heard in my life has come from some so-called liberals in San Francisco. I don't hear Republican friends in Pacific Heights or Orange County say this stuff (SF and OC GOP tend to be pretty mellow). It's usually a self-identified Democrat...in these cases, the liberalism is all an act! It's to trick people and get in bed with the political power brokers in San Francisco and Los Angeles. There are good people and bad people in both parties. I wouldn't be surprised if Tosh is a card-carrying member of the Democratic Party...people assume he's a Republican since a lot of his audience are frat guys in middle America, but I have doubts. Conversely, I know lots of elite Democrats who watch Fox News and CNBC because it speaks to them as "makers."

 

While we are dealing with political stereotypes in this thread, keep in mind there are a lot of terrible people on both sides of the political spectrum. That's how this nation has gotten so ugly and "us versus them." Both Republicans and Democrats want it this way. They are two sides of the same elitist coin. It keeps third parties and independents out...we've got a lot of terrible leadership that is getting a pass in our slow pitch news media. Shame on politicians who prey on this and shame on media outlets who let this happen. And also, shame on the apathetic people who aren't even paying attention to what is going on around them. I'm amazed how few people vote on ballot issues. That stuff immediately and directly has an effect on your life. These aren't laws and regulations passed in far away places. They're right down the street...

 

It seems like black comedians can get away with a lot as long as no one follows through their logic.  Chris Rock's famous routine about the two different types of black people makes Bill Cosby sound like Al Sharpton.

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The doubts about Obama's birthplace are his own fault.  Personally, I believe he was born in Hawaii, but it seems pretty clear that when it's been to his benefit to have people think he was born in Kenya or was actually Indonesian, he's been willing to let them. 

 

Ah yes..... the conspiracy within the conspiracy.  A conspiracy to justify the conspiracy!  Sorry, but to blame others for your own insanity is insane.  At least that's what I believe.... personally.  Next thing you know, Ted Cruz and his cohorts are going to be blaming the Dems for shutting down the government.  Oh wait.... ;) 

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It's puzzling/troubling how both networks can cover a topic like Benghazi/Healthcare Reform/Koch Brothers, etc and present two TOTALLY opposite viewpoints.  At this point, neither has any credibility.  Which disappoints me so much that CNN hasn't been able to capitalize on the middle ground with quality news programming

 

It would take both a network willing to sacrifice ratings and a journalist (or more than one) willing to sacrifice earnings to make that happen.  Conservative PBS anchor (now there's a phrase that may never be heard again) William F. Buckley's Firing Line show was arguably the best public affairs show of its day (and it had a long day), but the production values were very spartan and modern Fox News conservative primetime anchors (Hannity, O'Reilly) make exponentially more than Buckley ever did.

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According to the stats provided in the link below, "Fox News ran 1,098 segments on Benghazi between the attack on Sept. 11, 2012, and the formation of the select committee on May 2, 2014."  This coverage has, IMNSHO, been the impetus to congressional Republicans spending millions upon millions of dollars investigating the incident looking for that lost needle in the haystack.  Now that the GOP-led house intelligence committee has released its report finding no evidence of a cover-up by the White House, Fox passes along that information in a very short segment lasting less than 30 seconds.  Fair and balanced, folks.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2014-11-22/why-you-shouldnt-hold-your-breath-about-benghazi-fading

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Ugh.

 

I said this before on both the Obama administration thread and at least one other: If Benghazi is the worst thing that the Republicans can hang on Clinton, then Clinton will be the next president.  Period.  It is an absolute non-event and the oxygen wasted on it sucks limited attention span away from the real scandals that deserve to be run to the ground, including the IRS targeting and NSA warrantless wiretapping.  The only reason they're focused on Benghazi at all is because it happened on Hillary's watch and they're desperate for ammunition to use against her (and even there, I have to think they're looking in the wrong places ... I'm sure Clinton has dirt in her closet, but Benghazi isn't it).  If the SoS at the time of the attack had been someone without presidential ambitions, we'd have basically heard the last of it in 2012, or at least there wouldn't be all these select committees and other nonsense.

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This is making the rounds on Facecrook. There's a blond joke, or worse, an Aryan joke in here somewhere....

 

10348385_830433380353384_2725993668222233112_n.jpg?oh=443c5ae630017fdd87211c2f71f2c32d&oe=550605A3


"Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you Buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it." -- Gordon Gekko.

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"When the news breaks, we fix it." -- Fox

 

Baltimore FOX News Affiliate Caught Faking "Kill a Cop" Protest Chant. http://t.co/0qAsD7LMwg


"Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you Buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it." -- Gordon Gekko.

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Right-Wing Media Hide Obama And De Blasio Statements To Blame Them For Violence Against Police http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/12/21/right-wing-media-hide-obama-and-de-blasio-state/201974


"Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you Buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it." -- Gordon Gekko.

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^Ha, I started watching some of their coverage out of perverse curiosity, saw that bit, and had to switch it off quickly. What a joke. I'm sure it's not unique to Fox News, but almost anyone with a title of "terrorism expert" or something similar is probably a dimwit.

 

On that same topic, the whole Birmingham thing was kind of funny, especially all the #foxnewsfacts jokes that came after: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/fox-news-said-non-muslims-dont-visit-birmingham-and-created

It's not every day the British PM goes out of his way to single out a cable news "expert" as being a complete idiot: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11340399/David-Cameron-US-terror-expert-Steve-Emerson-is-a-complete-idiot.html

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The mayor of Paris is threatening to sue Fox News. @FeargusOSull writes about why that isn't crazy http://t.co/MFrhnomFx6


"Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you Buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it." -- Gordon Gekko.

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This network is on a roll lately.....

 

1. Alter the 'top 10' GOP candidates in a Quinnipiac poll by eliminating Rand Paul

 

2. Spend less than 1 1/2 minutes on the Duggar admission of molesting young girls

 

3. Gloss over the indictment of former GOP House Speaker Dennis Haskert

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Ignoring or downplaying the Hastert indictment for the moment may be wise.  When a Democratic prosecutor indicts a Republican figure, there ought to be a certain skepticism, particularly considering the absolute collapse (to the point where the prosecutor is possibly facing sanctions) of the years-long prosecutorial witch hunt against Scott Walker in Wisconsin.

 

I agree about the others, though.

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This network is on a roll lately.....

 

1. Alter the 'top 10' GOP candidates in a Quinnipiac poll by eliminating Rand Paul

 

2. Spend less than 1 1/2 minutes on the Duggar admission of molesting young girls

 

3. Gloss over the indictment of former GOP House Speaker Dennis Haskert

 

I would expect nothing else from that propaganda mill.

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This network is on a roll lately.....

 

2. Spend less than 1 1/2 minutes on the Duggar admission of molesting young girls

 

I've been out of the news cycle for a few days.  What's this got to do with Fox news or the political world?

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^Duggar was (resigned a few days ago) the executive head of the Family Research Council's political wing.  The FRC is an anti-gay group which is regularly featured on Fox News and is, of course, highly supportive of Republican candidates.

 

So much for traditional family values.....

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You seem to watch a lot of fox news for someone who hates fox news.

 

What do you consider 'a lot'?  I try my best to diversify, but can't say I 'watch' a lot of news period.  I get most of my news from the print media, which is where I got 2/3 of the information for that post.  The other third was from another thread on this site. 

 

Nice try though :)

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This network is on a roll lately.....

 

1. Alter the 'top 10' GOP candidates in a Quinnipiac poll by eliminating Rand Paul

 

2. Spend less than 1 1/2 minutes on the Duggar admission of molesting young girls

 

3. Gloss over the indictment of former GOP House Speaker Dennis Haskert

 

I would expect nothing else from that propaganda mill.

[/quot

 

All news outlets are propaganda/slanted in one way or another. It's only propaganda if you disagree with it lol.

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^ I think the good question becomes "why are news outlets slanted."

 

Who is spinning the political narrative? What's the purpose?

 

It can't all be about ratings.

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^^False equivalency..... a daily special on the Fox News menu.

 

Sure, MSNBC and several other media outlets lean heavily to the left and are not shy about it.  But there truly are news outlets which are not meaningfully slanted, unless you are viewing them from the perspective of one fringe or another.

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^ I think the good question becomes "why are news outlets slanted."

 

Who is spinning the political narrative? What's the purpose?

 

It can't all be about ratings.

 

A lot of Fox programming on their other networks is quite liberal, such as on shows with actors. Fox News' slant is about the money and little more.

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^ I think the good question becomes "why are news outlets slanted."

 

Who is spinning the political narrative? What's the purpose?

 

It can't all be about ratings.

 

A lot of Fox programming on their other networks is quite liberal, such as on shows with actors. Fox News' slant is about the money and little more.

 

It's certainly partly about the money, and their production values aim for a more entertaining presentation than most news shows, which I'm sure has to do with ratings and money.  However, there's no denying that Roger Ailes intended Fox News to move the center of cable news (and broadcast news) rightward from where it was before FNC debuted.  It is both a commercial and political project--inseparable, but distinct.

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Mere product differentiation if you ask me.

 

How does that explain what appears to be a media pattern of exclusion regarding Ron/Rand Paul? That's more than product differentiation. I have yet to hear any serious attention given to what could very well be collusion on behalf of the major media.

 

Anyhow, in the topic of non-differentiating media, does anyone on here remember the year 2000 when the term "gravitas" came out of nowhere; and the term was used as an indictment of George W Bush?  Rush Limbaugh actually ran a reel of virtually every media person suddenly using the word, it was ridiculous. It was as if each reporter in America got a memo from their producer mandating that they use the term to question Bush's competency. It's really fascinating when you think about it.

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It's certainly partly about the money, and their production values aim for a more entertaining presentation than most news shows, which I'm sure has to do with ratings and money.  However, there's no denying that Roger Ailes intended Fox News to move the center of cable news (and broadcast news) rightward from where it was before FNC debuted.  It is both a commercial and political project--inseparable, but distinct.

 

Roger Ailes did the same thing with Rush Limbaugh, the primary focus is the entertainment value.  That's how you gain audience.

 

Rush has offered to "train" a liberal counterpart a few times, in fact he specifically made that offer to Al Sharpton.

 

Air America failed because it was too earnest.

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Mere product differentiation if you ask me.

 

How does that explain what appears to be a media pattern of exclusion regarding Ron/Rand Paul? That's more than product differentiation. I have yet to hear any serious attention given to what could very well be collusion on behalf of the major media.

 

 

I think they don't get ratings because they're not explosive enough. They're thinkers.

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I'm sure there are players who conspire to marginalize Paul, because this is politics. But the reason I think the media behaves the way it does toward Paul is that he is in some way riding the political legacy of his father, and the other men that were in the same political theater mold if not politics itself of Nader, Perot, Pickens, etc. They've been trained to treat him that way over years and years of experience.

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