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I have a feeling that this deal will get closed notwithstanding any procedural defects.

 

However, I have heard a lot of concerns about K&D's construction practices that makes giving them E 9 and Euclid somewhat troublesome.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love that K&D is so aggressive in redeveloping the CBD, but there are legitimate concerns about the quality of what they build.

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I have a feeling that this deal will get closed notwithstanding any procedural defects.

 

However, I have heard a lot of concerns about K&D's construction practices that makes giving them E 9 and Euclid somewhat troublesome.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love that K&D is so aggressive in redeveloping the CBD, but there are legitimate concerns about the quality of what they build.

 

And those concerns are?

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I have a feeling that this deal will get closed notwithstanding any procedural defects.

 

However, I have heard a lot of concerns about K&D's construction practices that makes giving them E 9 and Euclid somewhat troublesome.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love that K&D is so aggressive in redeveloping the CBD, but there are legitimate concerns about the quality of what they build.

 

And those concerns are?

 

"Quality" of their construction.  You know the old saying - "they don't build them like they used to"....  those types of concerns.

 

Like I said, they are not MY specific concerns. I have actually never been in or in any way inspected anything done by K&D .... just posting what I have HEARD from others whose opinions in the area of construction that I respect.

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I have a feeling that this deal will get closed notwithstanding any procedural defects.

 

However, I have heard a lot of concerns about K&D's construction practices that makes giving them E 9 and Euclid somewhat troublesome.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love that K&D is so aggressive in redeveloping the CBD, but there are legitimate concerns about the quality of what they build.

 

And those concerns are?

 

MTS, have you been inside of any of the stonebridge units recently?  if not, i'd suggest you go have a look at a few of the units for sale - even the model unit in the older stonebrige has some issues - and it is the model (check out the door to the roof and the spiral staircase and door casings).

 

i've seen a couple of units in the older phases that aren't aging very well.  and although the new building is nice, the 3 units i have been inside that building, as well as some of the common area elements don't appear built to last 50 years, for example.  another example is the door hardware.  it looks OK, but it is not commercial grade, which is what is commonly found in higher end condos and most apartments downtown / near downtown - multiply this small change throughout the building, and there is a significant cost savings for the developer, at some long term wear and tear cost perhaps to the condo owner.

 

some of the concerns could just be cutting corners on finishing touches, but look closely at where the windows meet the floors, put your full weight against the balcony railings, look at weather sealing around doors that face the lake / river, etc.  there are just a lot of issues, for me at least, in buildings that are only a few years old or practically brand new.

 

some of the planning also seems strange.  i'd hate to have to move any large piece of furniture into the new building with the multiple angle walls snaking back to the front doors of some units.  it might look interesting, but that doesn't make it appropriate or long lasting, imo, and this is the challenge for this type of development practices at e9 and euclid, be it hotel, office, or condo.

 

ymmv.

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I have a feeling that this deal will get closed notwithstanding any procedural defects.

 

However, I have heard a lot of concerns about K&D's construction practices that makes giving them E 9 and Euclid somewhat troublesome.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love that K&D is so aggressive in redeveloping the CBD, but there are legitimate concerns about the quality of what they build.

 

And those concerns are?

 

MTS, have you been inside of any of the stonebridge units recently?  if not, i'd suggest you go have a look at a few of the units for sale - even the model unit in the older stonebrige has some issues - and it is the model (check out the door to the roof and the spiral staircase and door casings).

 

i've seen a couple of units in the older phases that aren't aging very well.  and although the new building is nice, the 3 units i have been inside that building, as well as some of the common area elements don't appear built to last 50 years, for example.  another example is the door hardware.  it looks OK, but it is not commercial grade, which is what is commonly found in higher end condos and most apartments downtown / near downtown - multiply this small change throughout the building, and there is a significant cost savings for the developer, at some long term wear and tear cost perhaps to the condo owner.

 

some of the concerns could just be cutting corners on finishing touches, but look closely at where the windows meet the floors, put your full weight against the balcony railings, look at weather sealing around doors that face the lake / river, etc.  there are just a lot of issues, for me at least, in buildings that are only a few years old or practically brand new.

 

some of the planning also seems strange.  i'd hate to have to move any large piece of furniture into the new building with the multiple angle walls snaking back to the front doors of some units.  it might look interesting, but that doesn't make it appropriate or long lasting, imo, and this is the challenge for this type of development practices at e9 and euclid, be it hotel, office, or condo.

 

ymmv.

 

hey, no one ever accused Bob Corna of being a good architect!! ;)

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for future legal reasons, no comment!

 

Easy solution.... just prephrase anything you write with "My opinion is...."  A little thing called the 1st Amend will insulate whatever you say after that.

 

Sorry Mayday.... my original post that started it out was "on topic" IMO.... did not mean to sidetrack.

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I had a chance to talk with an elected official earlier today who is very close to the situation with K&D and the county. The person told me off the record that K&D will not resubmit a bid to buy the county-owned ex-Ameritrust properties. K&D has their hands full with 668 Euclid Avenue right now, the source said, and is backing away from the Euclid-9th Street project. However, the source has a lot on their plate, and I've noticed this person's otherwise fantastic memory has suffered a bit lately from information overload. FWIW...


"Save the planet. Move to the city." -- The Downtowner podcast

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Easy solution.... just prephrase anything you write with "My opinion is...."  A little thing called the 1st Amend will insulate whatever you say after that.

 

The 1st Amendment wouldn't guarantee you keep your job, just that you don't go to jail.  Keeping your opinions to yourself is often a wise choice when the workplace is involved.

 

^In a way, I'm glad to hear this.  I was worried K&D might be stretching themselves thin.  I just hope someone else has plans for this building.  Maybe Eli Mann can tie it to the CAC, or is he not involved with that anymore?

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I think at this point I want some real solid info from a reliable source.  The accusations and name calling are getting annoying.

I had a chance to talk with an elected official earlier today who is very close to the situation with K&D and the county. The person told me off the record that K&D will not resubmit a bid to buy the county-owned ex-Ameritrust properties. K&D has their hands full with 668 Euclid Avenue right now, the source said, and is backing away from the Euclid-9th Street project. However, the source has a lot on their plate, and I've noticed this person's otherwise fantastic memory has suffered a bit lately from information overload. FWIW...

 

I also heard from a source (no names, but as concrete as it can get)... That this was not the county "poo pooing" so to speak on K&D.  Accepting their offer would have actually been violating state law because it technically did not meet the bid. Otherwise they would have accepted it.  As KJP notes they do not expect K&D to resubmit... however they expect that the new RFP will induce more activity...

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Easy solution.... just prephrase anything you write with "My opinion is...."  A little thing called the 1st Amend will insulate whatever you say after that.

 

The 1st Amendment wouldn't guarantee you keep your job, just that you don't go to jail.  Keeping your opinions to yourself is often a wise choice when the workplace is involved.

 

^In a way, I'm glad to hear this.  I was worried K&D might be stretching themselves thin.  I just hope someone else has plans for this building.  Maybe Eli Mann can tie it to the CAC, or is he not involved with that anymore?

 

Who said anything about jail  :?.... I inferred that he/she was getting at a defamation claim in a tongue in cheek sort of way - and the 1st Amend. does come into play there..... trust me.  True though about keeping your job, but he/she said "legal reasons" not "employment reasons".

 

As for E/9 and Euclid, I am hoping for something more than what K&D was planning actually.  In K&D's plans there seemed to be some lack of fluidity in the vision and I hated the design of the new office building that was to be erected (I realize they said that it was not the actual building... but geesh).  The County actually might be wise to sit on it (the property) for a couple years to - (a) let the lending crisis ease up; and (b) let Euclid Corridor show its worth to potential investors.

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"legal reasons" not "employment reasons".

 

My bad...I misread/had a brain fart/both A and B/etc.  Yeah, legally it would afford protection; employment-wise, not so much so.

 

As for E/9 and Euclid, I am hoping for something more than what K&D was planning actually.

 

Ditto.

 

The County actually might be wise to sit on it (the property) for a couple years to - (a) let the lending crisis ease up; and (b) let Euclid Corridor show its worth to potential investors.

 

I can see your point, but I think this corner is important enough that it needs to be one of the catalysts that exemplifies the ECP's advantages, not a result from the project's advantages.

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..... and is contemplating legal action against K&D in the "future"?????  j/k  :wink:

 

Now, don't get me wrong about the overall idea of the plans.... putting some residential and hotel rooms on this critical corner of the CBD while still promoting the office growth.

 

I just hated the idea of combining the AT tower and the Rotunda.  I also did not like the idea of knocking down 1010 Euclid.  I find it hard to believe that 1010 can't be rehabbed into lofts or something of that nature.  That building, especially its facade, just screams old school Cleveland and old school Euclid Avenue.  As silly as I am sure it will sound to many on here, I would be more upset with losing 1010 than the AT Tower.... well actually, that would be the case on the caveat that the AT Tower would be replaced with something of comparable size (not exact) to maintain skyline density.

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As silly as I am sure it will sound to many on here, I would be more upset with losing 1010 than the AT Tower.... well actually, that would be the case on the caveat that the AT Tower would be replaced with something of comparable size (not exact) to maintain skyline density.

 

I believe under many of the county renderings the new building would be shorter and involve tearing down the 1010 building.  so you are in luck.  you can be for the breuer and for 1010 at the same time.

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"I just hated the idea of combining the AT tower and the Rotunda."

 

They're already connected.  Have been since the Breuer Tower went up in 1971.

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^supposedly, they are going to submit a bid again this time. Additionally, it looks like at least one other developer will submit a bid as well. I know its vague info and it seems contradictory to what's been said before in this thread, but that's all I can offer. I hope what I'm hearing is correct.

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K&D is still in the game.

 

I've heard as well.


"Save the planet. Move to the city." -- The Downtowner podcast

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Well, this makes it sound like they are paving the way for a new bid that would mimic K&D's initial bid.

 

County rejects Ameritrust bid, will reopen bidding next week

Posted by Michelle Jarboe February 28, 2008 12:15PM

Categories: Real estate

Cuyahoga County today formally rejected a private developer's bid for the downtown Ameritrust complex, citing legal problems with a purchase offer from the K&D Group.

 

Cuyahoga County Commissioners voted to reject the Willoughby-based developer's bid and reopen bidding for the buildings at East 9th Street and Euclid Avenue. The second bidding period likely will take start early next week, and developers will have 30 days to make an offer, county officials said.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/02/county_rejects_ameritrust_bid.html

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This sounds a little more encouraging.....

 

Developer hopes to go ahead with Ameritrust project

Posted by Michelle Jarboe February 28, 2008 20:15PM

Categories: Breaking News, Real estate

 

K&D Group

The K&D group planned to remake the vacant Ameritrust complex into shops, offices, homes and a hotel.A intial rebuff won't stop a private developer from trying to remake the vacant Ameritrust complex into homes, shops, offices and a hotel.

Cuyahoga County today threw out a bid from The K&D Group for the collection of buildings at East 9th Street and Euclid Avenue.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2008/02/24-week/

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See, we were getting all upset without having all the facts. Doesn't mean this process doesn't bear watching. But the assumption that gloom and doom was imminent was clearly not called for -- by me included. It pays to get more information first about what's really happening and why, then form an opinion.


"Save the planet. Move to the city." -- The Downtowner podcast

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Do you think the $4 million in asbestos removal is in addition to everything else, or is that part of the $8.8 mentioned above?

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I was having breakfast this morning and at the next table was Peter Lawson Jones sitting with an older gentleman with wavy gray hair (he drives a white Hummer as I later found out in the parking lot if that helps anybody with an identification).  I do not know who the guy was but my best guess based on what I could see at the table and bits of conversation I heard that it was either Bob Price or somebody else from K and D.  I did my best to eavesdrop (as I pretended to read my paper) but it was difficult due to some noisy kids at another table.  I did observe many photos of the Ameritrust Rotunda which Jones seemed particularly  interested in as well a packet of about 50 documents which they were going through quickly.  It was hard to see but many were design schemes (it looked like of various parts of downtown including 668) and drawings and the like.  I did see the words K & D on one of them.

 

Again it was had to hear and I certainly did not want to appear obvious.  I heard Peter better since he has a deep voice and was facing me.  I did hear things like "Convention Center will be resolved by the end of this month".  "What are your plans for retail".  Something about "demolition".  "Can we arrange a tour sometime towards the end of March as I am very busy this coming week".  Again it was hard to put anything in context but it appeared to be some sort of sales pitch.  Since I really cannot venture what was actually being said the most interesting thing I guess is that the meeting was taking place at all.

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That sounds like Bob Corna, K&D's principal architect. Corna's hair is more white than gray.

 

Should've hauled the noisy kids out of there!!

 

 


"Save the planet. Move to the city." -- The Downtowner podcast

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Htsguy, shouldn't you have wrapped your post in an envelope marked "top secret reconnaissance" and included incriminating photos?  Did you grab a pop can off the table for identification purposes?

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According to an article on Cleveland.com about K&D buying senior housing properties, the second round of bidding for the Ameritrust tower ends April 2nd and Price said he plans on making a fully compliant bid.

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From the PD:

 

 

 

Cuyahoga County's Ameritrust contract got little scrutiny

Posted by Sandra Livingston and Joel Rutchick April 02, 2008 01:58AM

Categories: Impact

 

Questions remain about the dead plan to build a headquarters on the site of the Ameritrust complex.

 

• County commissioners violated Ohio law by talking about a construction manager in a private session.

• In public, they took less than a minute to select R.P. Carbone Co. for a $10 million contract.

• Carbone's partner, McTech, has connections to a company that closed after federal investigations. 

• Timeline of the project (PDF).

• Questions about McTech go back years.

• Carbone president awaits trial on bribery charges.

• Previous story: County likely to lose money on Ameritrust property.

 

On April 27, 2006, the Cuyahoga County commissioners faced a critical decision: whom to select to manage the county's biggest construction project in decades.

 

The choice was vital to putting the headquarters project -- now budgeted at more than $200 million -- on the right footing.

 

Yet the public record on the decision is stunningly thin...

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/04/cuyahoga_countys_ameritrust_co.html

 

 

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From today's paper, which I didn't quite get from the online version, seems to have the second bidding for today.

 

"This morning, Cuyahoga County will once again find out if someone wants to take the Ameritrust complex off its hands"

- PD

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It's pretty clear that Hagan and Dimora need to lose their jobs.


"Save the planet. Move to the city." -- The Downtowner podcast

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