cle2032 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Thank you Jesus that this building was sparred the wrecking ball! This project is just as important--if not more important than Stark's, Wolstein's, or Zaremba's project. I saw the front page of the PD in a stand this morning and was like, :-o Happy Wednesday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewarctj Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 K&D has not bought this building yet! They just won the bid. K&D still needs to get financing for the purchase and I guarantee there are many stipulations in the contract that enable K&D to rescind on the deal if everything doesn't work out. I don't mean to be a downer, but these BIG projects get a lot of media attention and fuel the pessimistic attitude in Cleveland when they can't get done. This is far from a slam dunk deal, believe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StapHanger Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 K&D has not bought this building yet! They just won the bid. K&D still needs to get financing for the purchase and I guarantee there are many stipulations in the contract that enable K&D to rescind on the deal if everything doesn't work out. I don't mean to be a downer, but these BIG projects get a lot of media attention and fuel the pessimistic attitude in Cleveland when they can't get done. This is far from a slam dunk deal, believe me. I am very curious what the rules for the bid were. The whole "oops, forgot to give you the whole $500k deposit) move could very well be a hedge on their own confidence in putting their initial financing together- I'm guessing the deposit will not be refundable under any buyer-side circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyTwoSense Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 lewarctj, I think all us here realize that, however, if we can't prematurely start to plan, lease, market the project, who can? :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StapHanger Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Hate to sidetrack us with actual info about the project...but the PD has some more coverage, including this bit about the purchase price: K&D would give the county $20 million up front, and the other $15 million in a promissory note to be fulfilled in up to two years. The firm's bid asks the county to chip in $1 million toward further asbestos removal. The bid also indicates financing for the deal hasn't been secured, Assistant County Prosecutor David Lambert said. http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1200475812269740.xml&coll=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w28th Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 "I think K&D’s designs are regressing each phase of stonebridge is getting more and more out there. I think enough already, get off the ultra contemporary. I like contemporary, but it is as if they cut and pasted one of there renderings of a phase of stonebridge in back of the tower." True, Doug Price's designs are horrible and poorly constructed views of what he thinks contemporary architecture is (and this proposal for E9th and Huron is the worst I've seen), but don't let that give contemporary, authentically current design a bad name. The proposal looks like an Orlando office park from the early 1990's, complete with barren plaza. But, tower saved. It could be worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayDay Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I don't think that they will be allowed to get a curb cut on our brand new euclid ave, E 9th could work? That's what Jacobs initially proposed in 2003 - note that the lobby window was slated to be removed, even back then: http://www.clevelandskyscrapers.comhttps://www.instagram.com/clevelandskyscrapers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w28th Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 ^Dear god that is horrible. I was scared that that was a proposal for a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 Dog Pat Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 ^^where is the dark and dank? Won't someone please think about the dank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyboy Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Another concern is, as I believe someone mentioned on the 668 thread, is the possible inability for K & D to grasp "urban planning principles" and the importance of continuity on Euclid, in that they want to tear down the building next to 668. Look at the sight plan for what they "want" to do to the Euclid side of the rotunda, eventually tearing down what is there, adding a building and creating "plazas". Not a good idea for Euclid :wtf:. Otherwise great news for the tower! A better view at: http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/01/16FGPLANS.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ks5214 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 and my biggest gripe - why more parking!!! ugh! Because people drive.. sorry MTS, a lot of people drive. As much as that may take years off your life.. people drive, especially people staying at hotels. ^Dear god that is horrible. I was scared that that was a proposal for a second. Do you like ANYTHING? What exactly is so bad about that? It's a crude sketch.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCleveland Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 ^ i was noticing that... it appears the buidling they want to remove on Euclid would be the Truman Building (1030 Euclid Ave), No? That would be a shame. That building is beautiful... granted currently falling appart, but if restored, beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3231 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 In theory, I do like the cut-through. I just don't trust K&D to pull off a good design for it. It really could be very very cool if the space is well programmed and lined with some appropriate retail/cafes. I also don't want to see a half-finished plaza and cut-through while the developers try to pre-lease any new construction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
math Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 this post on realneo includes a picture of the proposal/drawing/whatever that puts some perspective to the awful glass chandelier of an office building they are thinking about putting next door. http://www.realneo.us/blog/jeff-buster/breuer-gets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayDay Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 "sorry MTS, a lot of people drive. As much as that may take years off your life.." The effects of those "a lot of people" takes years off your life, my life... it's not just affecting MTS. I digress... http://www.clevelandskyscrapers.comhttps://www.instagram.com/clevelandskyscrapers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ks5214 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Ugh.. worst part of the proposal graphic is the Jake being labeled "Progressive Field" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
math Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Ugh.. worst part of the proposal graphic is the Jake being labeled "Progressive Field" honestly, I would say the bridge from the office building to the parking garage is worse than a name on a baseball field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyTwoSense Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Because people drive.. sorry MTS, a lot of people drive. As much as that may take years off your life.. people drive, especially people staying at hotels. Especially people staying in hotels? Well I guess the folks in Boston, Philly, Baltimore, NY,DC, CHI, SF are rules to the exception?? We are currently trying to improve our transit usage. We've got a multimillion dollar project going up right in front of this proposal. Those garages are a crutches and CONFLICT with the ECP. I can see adding 100 spaces in the the current garage for the resident and ½ the total number of rooms for the proposed hotel, MAX. You're living, working, shopping and dining downtown, why the hell do you need a f8ckin' car? NE Ohioians are always screaming we're not like X city. How can we when we plan and accept ridiculous substandard not well thoughtout bullshit! Silly shit like this is going to increase my caffeine intake and I've been doing so well. yes I know its only for visuals, but it burns me up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyTwoSense Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Ugh.. worst part of the proposal graphic is the Jake being labeled "Progressive Field" honestly, I would say the bridge from the office building to the parking garage is worse than a name on a baseball field. It's been there for years. why NOW is it a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayDay Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I think a lot of people were hoping that the skywalk would be removed for this project. http://www.clevelandskyscrapers.comhttps://www.instagram.com/clevelandskyscrapers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StapHanger Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 ^Or at least not coted with reflected glass. Ew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the pope Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Because people drive.. sorry MTS, a lot of people drive. As much as that may take years off your life.. people drive, especially people staying at hotels. Especially people staying in hotels? Well I guess the folks in Boston, Philly, Baltimore, NY,DC, CHI, SF are rules to the exception?? We are currently trying to improve our transit usage. We've got a multimillion dollar project going up right in front of this proposal. Those garages are a crutches and CONFLICT with the ECP. I can see adding 100 spaces in the the current garage for the resident and ½ the total number of rooms for the proposed hotel, MAX. You're living, working, shopping and dining downtown, why the hell do you need a f8ckin' car? NE Ohioians are always screaming we're not like X city. How can we when we plan and accept ridiculous substandard not well thoughtout bullshit! Silly shit like this is going to increase my caffeine intake and I've been doing so well. yes I know its only for visuals, but it burns me up! Just because we want cleveland to be less car dependent and more transit friendly, doesn't mean we can just not build a parking garage and magically everyone's on RTA. Also, MTS, you ain't no property developer. What you think a hotel/condo requires is probably far different from what the market/developers is dictating. Also, watch you language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCleveland Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 ^^^ I think the garages are a necessary evil, and it has nothing to do with the hotel... But people working in the new office space are going to need parking, and all the additional living spaces are going to require parking. I have lived downtown for 5 years and still have and need on occasion a car. Not that i use it all that often... but it is still necessary. Our transportation system isn't exactly like Chicago or New York where you can go anywhere you want easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3231 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 i also think that K&D would have difficulty finding office tenants if they didn't have "sufficient" parking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w28th Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Other opinions and concerns: http://clevelanddesigncity.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firenze98 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 That plan makes me puke. This is much better. Maintain street frontage and get rid of that plaza cut through. http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l293/juice95m3/rotunda-B.jpg https://www.instagram.com/cle_and_beyond/https://www.instagram.com/jbkaufer/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smith Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Plus, the more garages we have, the less surface lots we need. I would think that to be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w28th Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 and my biggest gripe - why more parking!!! ugh! Because people drive.. sorry MTS, a lot of people drive. As much as that may take years off your life.. people drive, especially people staying at hotels. ^Dear god that is horrible. I was scared that that was a proposal for a second. Do you like ANYTHING? What exactly is so bad about that? It's a crude sketch.. I don't like garbage. And that's garbage, along with the Qbert Tower and cutthrough to Euclid Avenue. And really, the cutthrough to Euclid wouldn't be as bad if it wasn't so wide. Bringing it down to a better scale where it seems jsut a bit larger than an alley would be a more successful approach than having yet another K&D enduced gaping wound in the Euclid Avenue canyon. There are enough large empty plazas around town (Key Bank on E9th, NCB, One Cleveland Center, Federal Building, Huron/Prospect, North Point, Mall B & C, just to name a few). Plazas should only be created when the pedestrian density of the street needs to be exhausted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyTwoSense Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Just because we want cleveland to be less car dependent and more transit friendly, doesn't mean we can just not build a parking garage and magically everyone's on RTA. Also, MTS, you ain't no property developer. What you think a hotel/condo requires is probably far different from what the market/developers is dictating. Also, watch you language. I realize that and I'm not trying to be a developer, nor have I stated I have expertise in the matter, however, what facts or financial requirements STATE a garage needs to be attached to this project?? Why is the city not more proactive in creating a walking enviornment. We cannot change the damage done 40 years ago, but we must put out foot down somewhere. There are various garages/lots in close proximity to the East Ninth-Euclid/Huron/Prospect/Bolivar area. Is there really a need for an additional lot on steriods? I'm done....parking garages get my pressure up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musky Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I realize that and I'm not trying to be a developer, nor have I stated I have expertise in the matter, however, what facts or financial requirements STATE a garage needs to be attached to this project?? Perhaps they see it as a source of additional revenue for events at the Q and Progressive Field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyTwoSense Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Plus, the more garages we have, the less surface lots we need. I would think that to be a good thing. How can more garages be good???? Its the same thing! You replace a lot with 100 spaces and replace it with a building - in the same foot print - with 90 spaces per level? Apparently I don't get the math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyTwoSense Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I realize that and I'm not trying to be a developer, nor have I stated I have expertise in the matter, however, what facts or financial requirements STATE a garage needs to be attached to this project?? Perhaps they see it as a source of additional revenue for events at the Q and Progressive Field. Arent the garages attached/adjacent to the stadia currently underused? We discussed that here on UO about the garages being built and not utilized properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanlife Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I realize that and I'm not trying to be a developer, nor have I stated I have expertise in the matter, however, what facts or financial requirements STATE a garage needs to be attached to this project?? during the day the current county owned parking garage is often full - with the tower, rotunda, 1010, lower euclid, etc. all empty. i'd think that by adding a hotel, commercial/retail space, hundreds of housing units, that there will be demand for some additional parking that is not supported by the current garage. another poster really hit the point on the head: cleveland does not have the substantial transit systems that exist in other regions. outside of daylight hours during the workweek, many areas are innaccessible on transit. imo, we can continue to encourage walkable neighborhoods, and develop in ways that encourage people to do more walking and transit use than driving, but in cleveland, for the near future, people who have a choice, will likely continue to choose to at least have access to a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldmanladyluck Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I believe that any plans must go through the city planning commission. One can only hope that they are all in tune to Cleveland's issues and would not want the density on Euclid to decrease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florida Guy Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 The same commission that approved the demolition of the tower? I wouldn't hold my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cle2032 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Re: the parking garage argument: I think-or at least hope-that when we see "parking garage", that includes some sort of ground level retail at the minimum (515 Euclid-esque). Also, a 6 level garage might allow some other 50 car lots to disappear down the road-especially in this neighborhood. I work on Huron and the Ameritrust, Halle, and E14th garages are nearly full even though "downtown is dead and no one works downtown and the ECP has driven businesses out of downtown..." I'm all for consolidating the dozen or so random lots around PHS and building up Prospect from CSU to E.9th. I wish we'd get the call to start the 515 tower... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matches Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Baby steps when we're talking about eliminating parking. 1 garage of 270 spots is far preferable to 1 lot of 100 spots on the same footprint, especially if it kills demand for 170 other surface spaces. That's the point. I'd be interested in finding out the ratio of parking spaces in structured parking to those on surface lots. Bringing that ratio up a bit couldn't hurt during a transitional phase of a couple decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3231 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 The same commission that approved the demolition of the tower? I wouldn't hold my breath. There was a lot of division amongst that commission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldmanladyluck Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 The planning commission was put between a rock and a hard place with this situation (first time I've actually used that saying :-D), in that the commissioners could move forward with the demolition even without the planning commission's approval (which the you-know-which-two commissioners planned to do). I believe the decision to remove the tower was made by the commission to in a way 'save face', in that it is one of the oldest planning commissions in the country and it would be a shame if their opinon and judgement of city projects could be discarded so easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weepinwillow Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 could somebody please sign me up for this? The county pays $32 million to jacobs trust plus maybe another $3 million in fees etc last august, PLUS another $5 million or so in asbestos remediation. THen K&D pays $33,050,000 and claims they have a win because they created a demand? If you or I ran a company like that, we'd be fired.. or given a $30 million golden parachute, so go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3231 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 ^WW, K&D paid $35,005,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiec Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 The planning commission was put between a rock and a hard place with this situation (first time I've actually used that saying :-D), in that the commissioners could move forward with the demolition even without the planning commission's approval (which the you-know-which-two commissioners planned to do). I believe the decision to remove the tower was made by the commission to in a way 'save face', in that it is one of the oldest planning commissions in the country and it would be a shame if their opinon and judgement of city projects could be discarded so easily. Someone who is smart, didn't the Supreme Court do this in the early days of the United States in order to preserve its power. A president was threatening to run right over them if they didn't rule his way. Rather than get neutered, they went his way, thus preserving their power. I might have gotten that wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oengus1963 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 who give a crap, at least there will be an office tower going up JOBS!! something Cleveland doesn't understand who cares what it looks like and for the moron who said theres too much parking no sh*t nobody lives in the city and no one takes the bus everyone drives from the burbs who cares at least theres finally some action downtown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mov2Ohio Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 who give a crap, at least there will be an office tower going up JOBS!! something Cleveland doesn't understand who cares what it looks like and for the moron who said theres too much parking no sh*t nobody lives in the city and no one takes the bus everyone drives from the burbs who cares at least theres finally some action downtown Office towers don't neccesarily create jobs, businesses do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clvlndr Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I realize that and I'm not trying to be a developer, nor have I stated I have expertise in the matter, however, what facts or financial requirements STATE a garage needs to be attached to this project?? during the day the current county owned parking garage is often full - with the tower, rotunda, 1010, lower euclid, etc. all empty. i'd think that by adding a hotel, commercial/retail space, hundreds of housing units, that there will be demand for some additional parking that is not supported by the current garage. another poster really hit the point on the head: cleveland does not have the substantial transit systems that exist in other regions. outside of daylight hours during the workweek, many areas are innaccessible on transit. imo, we can continue to encourage walkable neighborhoods, and develop in ways that encourage people to do more walking and transit use than driving, but in cleveland, for the near future, people who have a choice, will likely continue to choose to at least have access to a car. Urbanlife, you say we don't have the substantial transit systems of other regions, yet we have the best in the state and, still, one of the better ones in the US. Where does RTA not go where biz folks visiting Cleve need to go? Cleveland has a small, walkable downtown with plenty of cabs, buses and, by the time this project is finished (if it goes as planned), ECP/BRT, ... esp to the Clinic and U.Circle. When you travel on business to other cities, do you ride buses, trains and cabs around to suburban malls or stick close to downtown? I don't know about you, but for me (and probably most) it's the latter... I was in Chicago for meeting recently staying, for nearly a week, on the Magnificent Mile with a conference. Few of us even rode the L (from the airport). Aside from that, everybody walked, bused and cab-ed around the immediate area (one guy did ride the L to see Wrigley field, but that was 9t)... So how does this put Cleveland at such a transit disadvantage?... We do still have one of the few airport rapid transit systems that many downtown hotel guests use. I'm with MTS on this one... We have good transit here, but the 1st reaction with most every new project is that we don't and that we must start acting like Houston, Detroit or Phoenix and build more and bigger lots to accommodate more cars. With all the vacant offices in the 9th St/Playhouse Sq. area, I can’t imagine how 1 large condo/hotel put such a strain on parking? Upscale hotels valet drivers' cars anyway, so does it really matter if parking is immediately on the premises? Also, I don't know why anyone would want to dismantle the overhead walkway across Prospect to the garage. Clean/fix it up, maybe. It's not horrible looking; it's been there so long, to me, it's part of the urban fabric of the neighborhood and isn't so God awful. And in a city of our climate, shouldn't we be encouraging indoor connections like this, the RTA Tober walkway at Gateway and the overhead parking walkway at the Q. Cincy and Minneapolis are way ahead of Cleveland in this vein and, last I heard, locals aren't kicking up a storm to have them removed because some feel they don't look good...... ultimately, this seems akin to the gross overreaction to the Cleve Trust tower, to begin with, where some foolishly called for its demolition; now averted... for now, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weepinwillow Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 ^WW, K&D paid $35,005,000. Thanks. I'm glad the county sold it, upset they purchased it at all. Looks like we have a cleveland.com douche bag on the boards tonight. classy, w28th. Office towers don't neccesarily create jobs, businesses do. bingo.. well, except all the contractors licking their chops on the subs coming out of that deal. (I can here 'em now: "come on big money, my F1-50 needs a fill up!") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfohio Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 There is something very unpleasing about the sight of an "inverted pyramid." Thanks for buying the site K&D (aka "what the hell is street presence?"), but please don't build this....thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCleveland Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I realize that and I'm not trying to be a developer, nor have I stated I have expertise in the matter, however, what facts or financial requirements STATE a garage needs to be attached to this project?? during the day the current county owned parking garage is often full - with the tower, rotunda, 1010, lower euclid, etc. all empty. i'd think that by adding a hotel, commercial/retail space, hundreds of housing units, that there will be demand for some additional parking that is not supported by the current garage. another poster really hit the point on the head: cleveland does not have the substantial transit systems that exist in other regions. outside of daylight hours during the workweek, many areas are innaccessible on transit. imo, we can continue to encourage walkable neighborhoods, and develop in ways that encourage people to do more walking and transit use than driving, but in cleveland, for the near future, people who have a choice, will likely continue to choose to at least have access to a car. Urbanlife, you say we don't have the substantial transit systems of other regions, yet we have the best in the state and, still, one of the better ones in the US. Where does RTA not go where biz folks visiting Cleve need to go? Cleveland has a small, walkable downtown with plenty of cabs, buses and, by the time this project is finished (if it goes as planned), ECP/BRT, ... esp to the Clinic and U.Circle. When you travel on business to other cities, do you ride buses, trains and cabs around to suburban malls or stick close to downtown? I don't know about you, but for me (and probably most) it's the latter... I was in Chicago for meeting recently staying, for nearly a week, on the Magnificent Mile with a conference. Few of us even rode the L (from the airport). Aside from that, everybody walked, bused and cab-ed around the immediate area (one guy did ride the L to see Wrigley field, but that was 9t)... So how does this put Cleveland at such a transit disadvantage?... We do still have one of the few airport rapid transit systems that many downtown hotel guests use. I'm with MTS on this one... We have good transit here, but the 1st reaction with most every new project is that we don't and that we must start acting like Houston, Detroit or Phoenix and build more and bigger lots to accommodate more cars. With all the vacant offices in the 9th St/Playhouse Sq. area, I cant imagine how 1 large condo/hotel put such a strain on parking? Upscale hotels valet drivers' cars anyway, so does it really matter if parking is immediately on the premises? Also, I don't know why anyone would want to dismantle the overhead walkway across Prospect to the garage. Clean/fix it up, maybe. It's not horrible looking; it's been there so long, to me, it's part of the urban fabric of the neighborhood and isn't so God awful. And in a city of our climate, shouldn't we be encouraging indoor connections like this, the RTA Tober walkway at Gateway and the overhead parking walkway at the Q. Cincy and Minneapolis are way ahead of Cleveland in this vein and, last I heard, locals aren't kicking up a storm to have them removed because some feel they don't look good...... ultimately, this seems akin to the gross overreaction to the Cleve Trust tower, to begin with, where some foolishly called for its demolition; now averted... for now, anyway. Sorry, but i am with Urbanlife on this one. First off, the proposal calls for two parking garages... where 2 parking garages already exist. They aren't exactly tearing down some worthwhile buildings just for parking structures. And they are planning on placing residential towers on top of it... So I just don't think it's that big a deal. And trust me, I love downtown. I have lived down here for a while. But you still NEED a car. Like it or not, many businesses aren't open on the weekend if there isn't an event. Things like going out for lunch can be an issue if you don't want to eat at the winking lizard all the time. The trolley's don't run on the weekend so it's not even easy to get from one side of downtown to the other (and trust me when it's 8 outside you won't walk from gateway to WHD to get something to eat). Our transit is great as a park and ride system, but i can't exactly hop on the train and have it drop me off in say the main stretch of lakewood, or cleveland heights, etc. About the only place it can take us that is "dense" is shaker square... and we do that fairly often. Face it, as much as we would all like a 24 hour downtown, and a transit system that connects the neighborhoods, we aren't there yet. Therefore any project with this much housing is going to require parking for residents... and for the suburbanites who decide to live in Sandusky and drive into downtown for work. We're getting there but we are nowhere near ready for carless living downtown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now