Jump to content
thomasbw

Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News

Recommended Posts

Atlanta's is smaller. 2.7 track miles compared to our 3.6 miles.

 

I actually think we could use another northbound stop along the south edge of Washington Park.  You could catch some walkshed area there because its at the corner of the route. Then maybe perhaps another southbound one in the vicinity of 14th and Race to serve the Vine St. restaurants. 


www.cincinnatiideas.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think our stop spacing is pretty good. The only weird stop spacing is on Walnut where there are two stops only 1 block apart. It's not a huge deal to add or remove stops over time, though. Tacoma is planning to remove an existing stop when they expand their modern streetcar system. John Schneider[/member] has mentioned that he thinks more stops could be added over time to our Phase 1A.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aren't our stops more complicated than other streetcars? Since we have the level-boarding platforms, a whole platform would have to be demolished or built to accommodate those in wheelchairs. And depending on the size of the sidewalk at a certain location, it may not be as easy as it sounds.

 

Unless we want to just stop the streetcar on the curb and have inaccessible stops for the elderly/handicapped. But I think that's a bad idea. Having a uniform stop design is important so people know where and how to get on, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ The one thing that kind of irks me about the stops is that the tracks swing over to the curb by about a foot or so, rather than the curb jutting out into the street and keeping the tracks straight.  I can understand why they did this, since some of the stops have already been hit by cars as it is.  Nevertheless, while it would be easy enough to decommission a stop, to add a new one and "meet the standard" would require tearing up and rebuilding the tracks out front. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ The one thing that kind of irks me about the stops is that the tracks swing over to the curb by about a foot or so, rather than the curb jutting out into the street and keeping the tracks straight.  I can understand why they did this, since some of the stops have already been hit by cars as it is.  Nevertheless, while it would be easy enough to decommission a stop, to add a new one and "meet the standard" would require tearing up and rebuilding the tracks out front. 

 

If an additional stop were to be added, I bet we would just build the new station farther out to meet the existing tracks. I doubt we would go through the trouble of ripping out the tracks and making them swing over to meet the stop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adding more stops is very unlikely, nor would it help the system.  I think the Stops are essentially where they should go, with one major exception.  The 9th and Walnut stop should have been up at Court & Walnut. It was put on the southside of 9th so that the right lane of walnut could be a continuous through lane from Central Parkway to 9th street between 7 and 9am.  No idea why that's considered important, but that's why it was done.

 

Adding more stops won't happen. This is a small circulator, these stops are generally only 1-3 blocks apart from each other anyway.  More stops slows the system down even further.  18 is plenty for a 1.8 mile in each direction route.  You could argue that some of the 18 should be moved a bit, but there's 0 chance, nor should we, add more stops.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adding more stops is very unlikely, nor would it help the system.  I think the Stops are essentially where they should go, with one major exception.  The 9th and Walnut stop should have been up at Court & Walnut. It was put on the southside of 9th so that the right lane of walnut could be a continuous through lane from Central Parkway to 9th street between 7 and 9am.  No idea why that's considered important, but that's why it was done.

 

Probably because a lot of people use Walnut and 9th to get to I-75. That also explains why there are two turn lanes from Central Parkway WB to Walnut Street (compared to only one turn lane at every other cross street).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think our stop spacing is pretty good. The only weird stop spacing is on Walnut where there are two stops only 1 block apart. It's not a huge deal to add or remove stops over time, though. Tacoma is planning to remove an existing stop when they expand their modern streetcar system. John Schneider[/member] has mentioned that he thinks more stops could be added over time to our Phase 1A.

 

When I had a group in Portland last spring, I brought up this question to Chris Smith, who's on the board of Portland Streetcar Inc. and has a popular transportation blog. Before the streetcar was extended east across the Willamette River, where the stops are farther apart, I calculated that Portland's westside loop had 50% more stops per mile than Cincinnati's system. Chris asked me how many stops we had, and I told him 18 in 3.6 miles. He thought for a minute and then said, "Two-tenths of a mile between stops on average -- that's perfect." He went on to say that Portland now thinks the stops on the westside were built too close together.

 

I agree will Bill that we could use a stop on the south side of Washington Park. I asked them to add the stop @ 12th and Main to serve Upper Main Street better -- it was kind of left out in the planning process. I think the stop at Ninth and Walnut was mainly meant to serve the Library.

 

Stops can definitely be added. Tacoma added two stops on each side of Commerce Street a couple of years ago to facilitate new development there, eight or nine years after Tacoma's streetcar opened for business.

 

I'm not crazy about how the trackway moves in to meet the stops. It's going to cause some unnecessary swaying and make the ride less pleasant. When the streetcar pulls up to dock at a stop and then depart a few seconds later, people de-boarding and boarding are going to get a bit of a jolt.

 

By the way, I'm leading another trip out to Portland in March if anyone wants to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think our stop spacing is pretty good. The only weird stop spacing is on Walnut where there are two stops only 1 block apart. It's not a huge deal to add or remove stops over time, though. Tacoma is planning to remove an existing stop when they expand their modern streetcar system. John Schneider[/member] has mentioned that he thinks more stops could be added over time to our Phase 1A.

 

When I had a group in Portland last spring, I brought up this question to Chris Smith, who's on the board of Portland Streetcar Inc. and has a popular transportation blog. Before the streetcar was extended east across the Willamette River, where the stops are farther apart, I calculated that Portland's westside loop had 50% more stops per mile than Cincinnati's system. Chris asked me how many stops we had, and I told him 18 in 3.6 miles. He thought for a minute and then said, "Two-tenths of a mile between stops on average -- that's perfect." He went on to say that Portland now thinks the stops on the westside were built too close together.

 

I agree will Bill that we could use a stop on the south side of Washington Park. I asked them to add the stop @ 12th and Main to serve Upper Main Street better -- it was kind of left out in the planning process. I think the stop at Ninth and Walnut was mainly meant to serve the Library.

 

Stops can definitely be added. Tacoma added two stops on each side of Commerce Street a couple of years ago to facilitate new development there, eight or nine years after Tacoma's streetcar opened for business.

 

I'm not crazy about how the trackway moves in to meet the stops. It's going to cause some unnecessary swaying and make the ride less pleasant. When the streetcar pulls up to dock at a stop and then depart a few seconds later, people de-boarding and boarding are going to get a bit of a jolt.

 

By the way, I'm leading another trip out to Portland in March if anyone wants to go.

 

You know when in March? I'll already be there one weekend and would love to join up for one of your tours if I can make it work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Day of the tour is Monday, March 16th.

oh, bummer, I won't be there until Wednesday that week. I still plan to do lots of urban exploring. Could you share what you're typically itinerary looks like? or what major sites to see. (you can PM me.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's some shots inside the MOF from this evening.  Too cold and dark to get any outside, but wow there's a lot of track work! 

 

IMG_0437.jpg

 

IMG_0438.jpg

 

IMG_0441.jpg

 

IMG_0442.jpg

 

IMG_0443.jpg

 

IMG_0444.jpg

 

IMG_0445.jpg

 

IMG_0448.jpg

 

IMG_0449.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I'm not crazy about how the trackway moves in to meet the stops. It's going to cause some unnecessary swaying and make the ride less pleasant. When the streetcar pulls up to dock at a stop and then depart a few seconds later, people de-boarding and boarding are going to get a bit of a jolt.

 

 

Interestingly, the 12th and Race street stop doesn't swerve over.  It's the only one that I'm aware of that doesn't shift over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I'm not crazy about how the trackway moves in to meet the stops. It's going to cause some unnecessary swaying and make the ride less pleasant. When the streetcar pulls up to dock at a stop and then depart a few seconds later, people de-boarding and boarding are going to get a bit of a jolt.

 

 

Interestingly, the 12th and Race street stop doesn't swerve over.  It's the only one that I'm aware of that doesn't shift over.

 

COAST will declare that there will be a 6" gap between that platform and the streetcars.

 

I heard from an engineer that in the late 80s when the Red Line subway was under construction in LA that it was discovered that an engineering firm had signed off on inaccurate drawings that saw construction commence on a curve that was either too sharp or too wide.  As it was the early years of CAD, it's possible that an early version of the design was signed off by mistake.  Anyway the firm hired a law firm to quickly dissolve their company in order to avoid being sued by the transit agency. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kansas City is experimenting with a different type of stop design than we are. They will have a center 14" platform with 11" platforms on either side. When the streetcar pulls up to the stop the center two doors will be level boarding but the outer two doors will have a step up (or down) to board. Buses will be able to use the 11" platforms with their wheelchair lifts. Its an interesting design and I'll be curious how it works out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I'm not crazy about how the trackway moves in to meet the stops. It's going to cause some unnecessary swaying and make the ride less pleasant. When the streetcar pulls up to dock at a stop and then depart a few seconds later, people de-boarding and boarding are going to get a bit of a jolt.

 

 

Interestingly, the 12th and Race street stop doesn't swerve over.  It's the only one that I'm aware of that doesn't shift over.

 

I just went over to look at it and noticed that the track actually does curve over on the 1300 block, almost like they planned to have a stop at 13th and Race, moved it, and then forgot to change the plans for the trackwork.  Suddenly I'm wondering if they adjusted the plans for the 12th and Race station accordingly or if there really will be a 3" gap at that station...  I'm going to do some asking and find out.

 

25BE32DF-940D-415C-994F-854D820FA010.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the curb of Race Street shifts slightly between the 1200 block and the 1300 block.  At least I noticed that the sidewalk is wider north of 13th than it is south of 13th, I'm not 100% sure if the curbs align.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you ever really looked at McMillan Street?  It doesn't even pretend to try to be straight, especially in Walnut Hills, but it's on a section line.  The Hamilton/Butler county line zig-zags up and down, apparently because those early surveyors had improperly sized measuring chains. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you ever really looked at McMillan Street?  It doesn't even pretend to try to be straight, especially in Walnut Hills, but it's on a section line.  The Hamilton/Butler county line zig-zags up and down, apparently because those early surveyors had improperly sized measuring chains. 

 

The Symmes Purchase was surveyed as quickly and cheaply as possible.  Ludlow and his boys illegally laid the whole place out oriented toward magnetic north, in violation of the terms of Symmes' purchase contract from the federal government.  By the time the feds figured it out Symmes had already sold much of the purchase. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you ever really looked at McMillan Street?  It doesn't even pretend to try to be straight, especially in Walnut Hills, but it's on a section line.  The Hamilton/Butler county line zig-zags up and down, apparently because those early surveyors had improperly sized measuring chains. 

 

Yeah the federal government sent out its own crew to determine the Ohio-Indiana border in order to avoid the sort of nonsense that was going on in the 1780s and 90s in Ohio. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What would you build here? Let's play SimCity with the streetcar route

Tom Demeropolis and Chris Wetterich - Cincinnati Business Courier

 

The streetcar will roll in 18 months, and the promise of a true urban circulator system already has Cincinnati real estate developers grabbing chunks of property along the route and others planning major projects.

 

One of the biggest measures of success for the streetcar will be the economic development it spurs, and the potential for rising property values along the 3.6-mile loop.

 

Work is underway on a number of projects whose developers have said they were driven by the streetcar:

 

Cont - SUBSCRIBER CONTENT


"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where do they come up with this stuff?

 

"1. Speed 3: Streetcar of Doom

 

Jack Travern (Keanu Reeves) is a retired cop on vacation with his family in Cincinnati. His wife, Annie (Sandra Bullock) and their daughter decide to do some sightseeing, so they hop on a streetcar to tour around the city. Uh oh. Someone decides to rig a bomb to the streetcar. Jack must jump back into hero mode. Cue the one-liners and the explosions. "

 

http://www.cincinnatirefined.com/arts-entertainment/The-Hollywood-Films-and-Actors-We-Wish-Would-Film-In-Cincinnati-288273871.html

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It sounds like the streetcar is starting to be embraced as part of our local culture. Just wait until the day when the local news starts referring to the streetcar project without phrasing it as "the controversial streetcar project".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where do they come up with this stuff?

 

"1. Speed 3: Streetcar of Doom

 

Jack Travern (Keanu Reeves) is a retired cop on vacation with his family in Cincinnati. His wife, Annie (Sandra Bullock) and their daughter decide to do some sightseeing, so they hop on a streetcar to tour around the city. Uh oh. Someone decides to rig a bomb to the streetcar. Jack must jump back into hero mode. Cue the one-liners and the explosions. "

 

http://www.cincinnatirefined.com/arts-entertainment/The-Hollywood-Films-and-Actors-We-Wish-Would-Film-In-Cincinnati-288273871.html

 

 

That movie exists- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_Rounds_%28film%29

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Developer: Streetcar spurred 20 new Downtown apartments

Bowdeya Tweh, 5:57 p.m. EST January 22, 2015

 

A developer has completed the renovation of a Downtown office building to house 20 new apartments and street-level retail space.

 

...

 

[Developer Joe] Levine said discussions about the then proposed Cincinnati streetcar helped him determine a residential redevelopment would be the best use for the building built in the early 1900s. Speaking in the building along the streetcar line Thursday, he said being connected without a car to Findlay Market, and other Downtown attractions would be appealing to new residents. In 2013, the city approved the Levine Properties affiliate to get a 12-year tax abatement for all improvements to the building.

 

"The streetcar played a big role in turning this into residential up top," Levine said. "It really helped us a lot."

 

Read more

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is from a University of Cincinnati sports message board but I found it very interesting. The context is that Santa Ono and Mike Bohn (athletic director) were recently in Dayton to meet with alumni and promote the university and athletics (and fund raise). A young man who was at the event posted the following about his experience. I'm going to post the entire thing for those that might be interested in expansion or athletic stuff and bold what is relevant to this thread:

 

You could tell that both President Ono and Bohn had to bite their tongue hard. They both really wanted to spill the beans. Ono pretty much said that we were in. He said that since he's not the one inviting, it wouldn't be appropriate for him to announce it.

Some more info... I walked in and was one of the younger alums there. Didn't know anyone so I went to one of the high top tables to eat some of the snacks provided. Some guy walked up to me in a suit and said, "Hey there, I like the jacket". I look up and it's Mike Bohn. I ended up talking to him for the next 20 minutes.

 

Some tidbits. This is all I remember for right now.

 

The enquirer didn't break the Under Armour story. Adidas put out a press release because they were pissed.

 

Bohn said they "worked their asses off" to secure that deal and that it more than doubles the current money

 

He said that shutting down Calhoun is out because the city said it is a primary egress route after football games. They are going to shut down short vine instead

 

Under Armour has assured UC that they'll get the Notre Dame treatment where they incorporate UC things into the uniforms. I told him about the city flag suggestion and he liked it a lot.

 

He said that the Under Armour deal will make UC more appealing to the BIG12.

 

I asked him about any other conferences... ACC... and he said that the BIG12 was the most likely

 

Asked Ono about the street car and he said that they are in talks to have it expanded to uptown, but UC may have to pay for some of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was coming here to post the same. Would jive with past transit partnerships between UC and SORTA. Fun fact, up until 2009, UC used to subsidize free Metro passes for all students to the tune of $300k per year. After that, a deal was still subsidized, but at a lower rate and without free ridership.

 

I've long considered this a probable partnership to fund the uptown route operation. Would probably involve some capital dollars from UC as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was coming here to post the same. Would jive with past transit partnerships between UC and SORTA. Fun fact, up until 2009, UC used to subsidize free Metro passes for all students to the tune of $300k per year. After that, a deal was still subsidized, but at a lower rate and without free ridership.

 

I've long considered this a probable partnership to fund the uptown route operation. Would probably involve some capital dollars from UC as well.

 

I am almost certain UC didn't lower the contribution to SORTA. It was time to renegotiate the agreement, and SORTA received a lot more ridership than expected and were overwhelmed with students handing off IDs to friends and using old student IDs to continue riding free, so they had to do something a little different. Now students can pay $53/semester for unlimited Zone 1 rides and pay the additional zone charges if they travel outside of that. Or they can receive a card completely free and get a ride anywhere in the system for $1/ride. Both are great deals, but I think SORTA should go back to offering free rides to all students. It will build future ridership.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...