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Seriously, non-stop drama, so tiring.  The opposition will stop at nothing to make sure this fails.

 

They scheme, over and over and over again.  They can't let it go. They must think about it every second of every day

 

BTW, Chris Seelbach called out the Enquirer on Facebook over their streetcar sensationalist coverage.  Carolyn washburn commented and seelbach responded with a great response

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Seriously, non-stop drama, so tiring.  The opposition will stop at nothing to make sure this fails.

 

They scheme, over and over and over again.  They can't let it go. They must think about it every second of every day

 

BTW, Chris Seelbach called out the Enquirer on Facebook over their streetcar sensationalist coverage.  Carolyn washburn commented and seelbach responded with a great response

 

I think even if you look at an article about the Tucson Streetcar, or even the Portland Streetcar, you get those comments still.  It will literally never end, just is tiring our Mayor is the ring leader.

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Seriously, non-stop drama, so tiring.  The opposition will stop at nothing to make sure this fails.

 

We'll outwit, outplay and outlast them.

 

That's because it's a lot easier to love than to hate. Think about things in your life that you once said you hated -- I dunno, your sophomore English teacher, the girlfriend who dumped you, your landlord, whatever -- that hate probably burned out over time. Now think about the things you've loved. My guess is, you still love them.

 

We're the lovers, not the haters.

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I don't understand why everyone is so upset.  Without Phase 2 or 3 or 4, would you expect the streetcar to be operational on a Tuesday night in February at about 10 or 11pm?  Would you really expect the city to foot that bill? 

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^Yes. Yes I would. OTR and Downtown don't suddenly just die because it's February. People still live and work there. People still go out. People will still be calling for better transportation even (if not because of) in bad weather.

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Seriously, non-stop drama, so tiring.  The opposition will stop at nothing to make sure this fails.

 

We'll outwit, outplay and outlast them.

 

That's because it's a lot easier to love than to hate. Think about things in your life that you once said you hated -- I dunno, your sophomore English teacher, the girlfriend who dumped you, your landlord, whatever -- that hate probably burned out over time. Now think about the things you've loved. My guess is, you still love them.

 

We're the lovers, not the haters.

 

John, I love ya too...but is this really our strategy?  These people are insane and we're planning to just sit back and say, "That's okay.  We still love you." 

 

We have TONS of cold, hard facts that can be used to hit them over their heads.  We need to plan a media blitz so that people actually USE it when it opens.  (Remember, there are still people that think Mt Adams is a dump, UC still has three sisters, and Laurel Homes will never get torn down.) 

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^

AJ, to some people, including those who oppose the Cincinnati Streetcar, facts don't matter. They really don't. If Dayton were willing to write Cincinnati a check to build and operate the streetcar for 25 years, they would still hate it -- just doesn't comport with their view of the world, limited as it is. It's just going to take getting it done and showing Cincinnatians, many of whom are skeptical but fair-minded.

 

I'm not asking anyone to love the opponents, just pointing out that their hate of the streetcar will grow dim over time. People have already started to tune them out.

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^

AJ, to some people, including those who oppose the Cincinnati Streetcar, facts don't matter. They really don't. If Dayton were willing to write Cincinnati a check to build and operate the streetcar for 25 years, they would still hate it -- just doesn't comport with their view of the world, limited as it is. It's just going to take getting it done and showing Cincinnatians, many of whom are skeptical but fair-minded.

 

I'm not asking anyone to love the opponents, just pointing out that their hate of the streetcar will grow dim over time. People have already started to tune them out.

 

I completely agree that we're never going to convince the John Cranley's of the world. However there is also a MASSIVE population of people in Cincinnati who are complacent in their neighborhoods and won't EVER come downtown to see the streetcar. Those are people who can be convinced and right now the opposition is doing a great job convincing them. There's two years of brainwashing ahead before the streetcar opens. It's going to be another uphill battle if we wait until it opens to start convincing the media to talk about it.

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Cranley proposing $300-400 per year OTR parking permits for all residents.  All streets would be either metered or residential parking permit.  People in poverty would be free.

 

John-

 

While every line has been successful, has any line opened where the mayor is working every single day to make it a failure?

 

The goal here is to have it be an ugly mess so that in 2015 he can pass a strong mayor initiative that gives him all the power of the manager and to elect an anti-streetcar person to council to replace winburn.  Sitting around going, don't worry, in 2016 people will enjoy the streetcar may not be the best strategy when we need to elect a good person in 2015 and not allow strong mayor to pass.

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Here's a streetcar LTE from a Westside suburbanite who wants to make the streetcar work. I think they have a pretty good idea, but why stop at one garage when there could be two?

 

At the end of the streetcar line, build a very large one- or two-floor fully enclosed parking garage with the streetcar running through it with loading and unloading platforms. Offer a fair parking fee to include free transportation on the streetcar to the Downtown business district. Make the garage easy to get to for the many people who live on the West Side so they can park and ride to their jobs Downtown.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/readers/2014/09/04/add-parking-garage-to-streetcar-stop/15070977/

 

Furthermore, we could tuck the garages underground instead of taking up valuable real estate and assaulting the eyes. Then the streetcar stops could just be near the garage exits instead of inside the garages. I vote we call them "The Banks Garage" and the "Washington Park Garage". What do you guys think? Too fanciful?

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Here's a streetcar LTE from a Westside suburbanite who wants to make the streetcar work. I think they have a pretty good idea, but why stop at one garage when there could be two?

 

At the end of the streetcar line, build a very large one- or two-floor fully enclosed parking garage with the streetcar running through it with loading and unloading platforms. Offer a fair parking fee to include free transportation on the streetcar to the Downtown business district. Make the garage easy to get to for the many people who live on the West Side so they can park and ride to their jobs Downtown.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/readers/2014/09/04/add-parking-garage-to-streetcar-stop/15070977/

 

Furthermore, we could tuck the garages underground instead of taking up valuable real estate and assaulting the eyes. Then the streetcar stops could just be near the garage exits instead of inside the garages. I vote we call them "The Banks Garage" and the "Washington Park Garage". What do you guys think? Too fanciful?

 

Don't those garages already exist? the garage at the banks and W Park are very nice.

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Here's a streetcar LTE from a Westside suburbanite who wants to make the streetcar work. I think they have a pretty good idea, but why stop at one garage when there could be two?

 

At the end of the streetcar line, build a very large one- or two-floor fully enclosed parking garage with the streetcar running through it with loading and unloading platforms. Offer a fair parking fee to include free transportation on the streetcar to the Downtown business district. Make the garage easy to get to for the many people who live on the West Side so they can park and ride to their jobs Downtown.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/readers/2014/09/04/add-parking-garage-to-streetcar-stop/15070977/

 

Furthermore, we could tuck the garages underground instead of taking up valuable real estate and assaulting the eyes. Then the streetcar stops could just be near the garage exits instead of inside the garages. I vote we call them "The Banks Garage" and the "Washington Park Garage". What do you guys think? Too fanciful?

 

Don't those garages already exist? the garage at the banks and W Park are very nice.

 

I think that was his point - what the LTE author wants already exists... and they have no idea.

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Here's a streetcar LTE from a Westside suburbanite who wants to make the streetcar work. I think they have a pretty good idea, but why stop at one garage when there could be two?

 

At the end of the streetcar line, build a very large one- or two-floor fully enclosed parking garage with the streetcar running through it with loading and unloading platforms. Offer a fair parking fee to include free transportation on the streetcar to the Downtown business district. Make the garage easy to get to for the many people who live on the West Side so they can park and ride to their jobs Downtown.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/readers/2014/09/04/add-parking-garage-to-streetcar-stop/15070977/

 

Furthermore, we could tuck the garages underground instead of taking up valuable real estate and assaulting the eyes. Then the streetcar stops could just be near the garage exits instead of inside the garages. I vote we call them "The Banks Garage" and the "Washington Park Garage". What do you guys think? Too fanciful?

 

Don't those garages already exist? the garage at the banks and W Park are very nice.

 

I think that was his point - what the LTE author wants already exists... and they have no idea.

 

OK got it

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Don't those garages already exist? the garage at the banks and W Park are very nice.

 

I think that was his point - what the LTE author wants already exists... and they have no idea.

 

The important part of his suggestion is that the parking fee in a "streetcar garage" should include a free ticket to/from that garage.  Yes, the Banks and Washington Park garages are already there, but I don't think there's been any discussion yet about having their fees cover streetcar fares. 

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Chris Smitherman is rapidly approaching the title of Cincinnati's worst politician:

 

http://www.55krc.com/media/podcast-brian-thomas-morning-show-55krcMornings/brian-talks-to-smitherman-about-the-25246309/

 

He insults Ryan Messer in end of 1st half and beginning of the 2nd half podcast.  Says he's nowhere to be found and they talk about his tax abated property .

 

He also agreed with thomas that they could run the streetcar once a month

 

Chris Smitherman also said there will be more votes to kill the streetcar soon. He mentioned SORTA will cut bus routes again to funnel money into the streetcar operations

 

Thankfully the voting block of Mann, Sittenfeld, Seelbach, Young and Simpson should hold up.

 

These past 4 days are as much of a coordinated attack against the streetcar as I've seen since the 2 referendums

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I think that was his point - what the LTE author wants already exists... and they have no idea.

 

The important part of his suggestion is that the parking fee in a "streetcar garage" should include a free ticket to/from that garage.  Yes, the Banks and Washington Park garages are already there, but I don't think there's been any discussion yet about having their fees cover streetcar fares. 

 

Yes, I was (cryptically, I guess :) ) making both of those points:

1) A joke about the LTE's author not realizing that the garage he wants already exists (two of them, in fact, though admittedly WPark isn't at the "end of the line" -- but it is on the periphery of the CBD and directly on the streetcar line), and

2) That the LTE writer's suggestion of a free streetcar pass w/ the parking fee is in fact a good idea. (I've been saying for years that this should be the case for these two garages.)

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I completely agree that we're never going to convince the John Cranley's of the world. However there is also a MASSIVE population of people in Cincinnati who are complacent in their neighborhoods and won't EVER come downtown to see the streetcar. Those are people who can be convinced and right now the opposition is doing a great job convincing them. There's two years of brainwashing ahead before the streetcar opens. It's going to be another uphill battle if we wait until it opens to start convincing the media to talk about it.

 

People who matter in all 52 neighborhoods will come see it when it's up and running. Wait until streetcar opponents' kids see the streetcar and beg to ride it.

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Cranley proposing $300-400 per year OTR parking permits for all residents.  All streets would be either metered or residential parking permit.  People in poverty would be free.

 

John-

 

While every line has been successful, has any line opened where the mayor is working every single day to make it a failure?

 

The goal here is to have it be an ugly mess so that in 2015 he can pass a strong mayor initiative that gives him all the power of the manager and to elect an anti-streetcar person to council to replace winburn.  Sitting around going, don't worry, in 2016 people will enjoy the streetcar may not be the best strategy when we need to elect a good person in 2015 and not allow strong mayor to pass.

 

-Rant I needed to get off my chest edited out because its unnecessary-  I spend about 100/year to have a car in Chicago btw, the Business Courier is forgetting that Chicagoans pay a 75/year (higher for SUVs and light trucks) city sticker on top of any residential permits they may need to purchase.

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Mayor Cranley's plan for handling streetcar operating costs:

 

Mayor Cranley proposes $300 a year parking permits just for OTR, the most expensive in the nation.

 

Via the Business Courier & Believe in Cincinnati

 

10600634_595582487225984_6911060314561750125_n.jpg?oh=659ded26cb34da2bee539234e1ff5c4c&oe=54603876

 

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This plan sounds great! It'll encourage everyone to ditch their cars and ride the streetcar!

 

Oh wait...or maybe it'll just encourage people to tear down more buildings to build their own lots.

 

I wanted to write that this plan is idiotic, but I really do think there's a workable parking plan in there somewhere. Cranley just doesn't seem to understand basic economics so he just throws numbers around for fun.

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That Biz Courier chart has the wrong info for Columbus. Residents in all 31 permit zones only pay $25 per year. Only businesses on the east side of High in Italian Village are charged $100 for on-street parking permits for their employees.

 

The 300-400 dollar amount Cranley is throwing out, for all residents and streets in OTR no less, is both ridiculous and reprehensible.

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That Biz Courier chart has the wrong info for Columbus. Residents in all 31 permit zones only pay $25 per year. Only businesses on the east side of High in Italian Village are charged $100 for on-street parking permits for their employees.

 

The 300-400 dollar amount Cranley is throwing out, for all residents and streets in OTR no less, is both ridiculous and reprehensible.

 

It only shows his disdain for that neighborhood.

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Is the issue over the price or the permits themselves? In theory, permits in OTR make a lot of sense - keep the on street available for residents and forcing visitors to use garages. I would be curious about how much residents in Pendleton and the Clifton area near Cincinnati State are paying (maybe that was in one of the articles and I forget) and I would hope that the OTR Neighborhood Council would push back on the price but not on the concept.

 

I agree with ProkNo5, there is a workable plan in here somewhere. We don't have to go to war over every detail. Residential permits can be a gift to the neighborhood if priced right.

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2,3,4 hundred dollars is ludicrous OTR is not some ultra wealthy 90210 part gated community that would pay that. The more Cranley talks this non sense the more I wanna get a group together and protest for his stepping down.

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I agree that 300 is too high, but it is far cheaper than any monthly pass for off-street parking. I would gladly give up my monthly spot for a $25/mo permit if I was virtually guaranteed a place to park. Maybe the solution is cut that price in half or more, but make every available on-street parking space in OTR 24-hour metered. Then anyone with a pass just doesn't have to feed the meter.

 

As a property owner in OTR, and as many others have said before in this forum, I would gladly pay some kind of reasonable assessment as part of a special taxing district to help fund the streetcar. I consider this part of that conversation.

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People like Cranley that just say things without trufax behind them will disappear within 10 years.

 

Normally that's the case but Chris Smitherman, COAST, Dusty Rhodes,to a lesser extent John Cranley and the rest seem to keep coming like zombies.  They've been around the political scene for an eternity with no signs of slowing down

 

I mean COAST was for the stadium deals and now use the stadium deals as a reason why we shouldn't have built washington park, the banks, etc.  They sent out multiple egregious tweets daily & even compared the streetcar as being worse than 9/11

 

Chris Smitherman was against washington park, fountain square, and seemingly everything, but now he's more popular than ever.  He said that he's afraid the local water supply will be tainted in african american communities with syphillis and that the CIA is out to get him before comparing himself to Malcolm X.  He literally had to be restrained from attacking people in City Hall during a city hall meeting.

 

 

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They're only able to trick people who don't know how to use the internet properly. That's why they'll be gone in 10 years and why it doesn't matter how much success people like them had in the past. Talk to a car salesman about how the industry has changed in the past 15 year. Sales techniques hadn't changed for 400 years. Nowadays car salesmen can barely get away with any of that old-school stuff. People just walk.

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Yet another development along the streetcar line that won't be covered by any local media except business courier:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/09/05/14-million-redevelopment-project-coming-near.html?ana=e_cinci_bn_newsalert&u=YhY%2FQfXAMCgNyFrEjw9v+w0e0d9800&t=1409940662&page=all

 

Hope the city is keeping track of all the development for a detailed map like every other city has done

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Yet another development along the streetcar line that won't be covered by any local media except business courier:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/09/05/14-million-redevelopment-project-coming-near.html?ana=e_cinci_bn_newsalert&u=YhY%2FQfXAMCgNyFrEjw9v+w0e0d9800&t=1409940662&page=all

 

Hope the city is keeping track of all the development for a detailed map like every other city has done

 

Every press release or streetcar update released by the city should be accompanied by a map showing every investment that is taking place and a running tally of overall dollars.

 

I thought i saw somewhere that John Deatrick said they were creating something like that. But unless you actively follow developments in the city you would have no idea any of this is taken place. I, thankfully do not watch local tv news, but i wouldnt think (correct me if i am wrong) wcpo or wlwt would cover this on their 6pm broadcast.

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I hope any map shows not only redevelopment directly along the streetcar route, but also any within a few blocks of it.  After all, the pioneers in OTR have literally been banking on a general transformation of the entire neighborhood.

 

I don't expect ardent streetcar opponents to ever change their tune.  They're intractable.  But I'm already seeing fewer and fewer people bothering to post negative comments on cincinnati.com, which may be one reason why Cranley's launched his latest attacks.  If nothing else, he is an attention-seeking drama queen and unfortunately media types seem to like that trait.

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It appears a vehicle hit the railing at the Music Hall stop and glass was installed at the Elm & Liberty stop:


"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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Cranley proposing $300-400 per year OTR parking permits for all residents.  All streets would be either metered or residential parking permit.  People in poverty would be free.

 

John-

 

While every line has been successful, has any line opened where the mayor is working every single day to make it a failure?

 

The goal here is to have it be an ugly mess so that in 2015 he can pass a strong mayor initiative that gives him all the power of the manager and to elect an anti-streetcar person to council to replace winburn.  Sitting around going, don't worry, in 2016 people will enjoy the streetcar may not be the best strategy when we need to elect a good person in 2015 and not allow strong mayor to pass.

 

I wonder how much it is going to cost to means-test this parking permit program?

 

The best person to run in 2015 is someone who is explicitly pro-streetcar and can fund their Council campaign at to the tune of $400,000.

 

The key to getting Cranley out is getting someone people are going to want to show up to vote for.

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Yet another development along the streetcar line that won't be covered by any local media except business courier:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/09/05/14-million-redevelopment-project-coming-near.html?ana=e_cinci_bn_newsalert&u=YhY%2FQfXAMCgNyFrEjw9v+w0e0d9800&t=1409940662&page=all

 

Hope the city is keeping track of all the development for a detailed map like every other city has done

 

Every press release or streetcar update released by the city should be accompanied by a map showing every investment that is taking place and a running tally of overall dollars.

 

I thought i saw somewhere that John Deatrick said they were creating something like that. But unless you actively follow developments in the city you would have no idea any of this is taken place. I, thankfully do not watch local tv news, but i wouldnt think (correct me if i am wrong) wcpo or wlwt would cover this on their 6pm broadcast.

 

I too have been interested in seeing something like this.  The real trick to doing a detailed analysis of this kind of thing is to measure just how much of an impact the streetcar had in these locational decisions that are driving the redevelopment of OTR.  Other factors besides the streetcar are also driving these decisions...ie proximity to the CBD and Uptown, not to mention that many of the buildings in OTR can be rehabbed because of the attractiveness inherent within their design--and most were well constructed originally.  Few of us would claim that it was the streetcar exclusively that drove most of these investments. Anyway, when I graduated from DAAP back in the '70s it was really hard finding a good thesis topic.  This would make a great one: do focus groups with as many of the decision makers as you can find and pick their brains as to "how many other factors did you look at and how big was the streetcar factor?"

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