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thomasbw

Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News

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43 minutes ago, Robuu said:

Does anyone know:

 

How accurate are the real-time arrival signs? The Transit app?

What are the real frequencies being hit?

What is the on-time performance?

 

Those have been problems in the past, and reliability is a prerequisite for a useful system, and usefulness is a prerequisite for healthy ridership. I believe these are bigger issues than the shape of the route.

 

Real time arrival signs seem to work fine, as do the transit app.

 

Frequencies are close. Here's January 19: Peak Actual 13:28 (12 min); Off Peak Actual 15:39 (15 min)

 

On time performance is around 40%, but it's measured against a schedule that's not publicly available, so that one is less important. You can just look to see how long it is until the next train on the sign or the transit app. People aren't planning a trip based on the 2:06pm streetcar being there, it's more of a "you just walk out and see when the next one is coming" type situation. 

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9 minutes ago, thomasbw said:

People aren't planning a trip based on the 2:06pm streetcar being there, it's more of a "you just walk out and see when the next one is coming" type situation. 

 

This is a bit of a problem I think. When I lived in Philly, the subway would come every four minutes during peak hours so you didn't need to know the schedule. You'd never wait more than a few minutes. But during non-peak I knew when certain trains would come off the top of my head because they adhered very well to the published schedule. Evening trains would arrive at my station on the sixes, so 7:06, 7:16, 7:26, etc. That was very convenient and easy to remember. If the streetcar was consistent that would boost ridership. I'd like to be able to go to the Library station and know that a train will arrive at 7:02, 7:17, 7:32, and 7:47. 

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I just love how Philadelphia's subway is free at certain stops.  That alone gives me the *pheels*


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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Just now, ColDayMan said:

I just love how Philadelphia's subway is free at certain stops.  That alone gives me the *pheels*

It is? Where?

Edited by Oxford19

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Just now, taestell said:

It seems that all of the issues with real-time arrival signs have been fixed. They seem accurate every time I've ridden in the past few months and I don't hear anybody complaining about them anymore.

 

Reliability issues seem to be fixed as well. There was a period of time when we only had three operating streetcars and two were out of commission due to compressor failures, being hit by cars, etc. I think all five are in good shape now. Although I'm not sure how many are put into operation on a typical day. Even though the original agreement only required Transdev to operate two streetcars on the weekend, it seems like they have at least three operating during weekend peak hours.

 

The biggest hinderance to ridership is the frequency. The streetcar still crawls through the CBD because it gets stuck at every red light. Remember when we got the initial results of traffic study in mid-December and the consultants recommended we give longer green lights on Main and Walnut, signal priority for the streetcar at key intersections, and certain other changes to the downtown street grid to help transit riders and pedestrians? Well, three months have passed and our anti-streetcar city administration has done nothing with those recommendations.

Still, even if it is slow at times in the CBD, riders, if they really had use for the streetcar would still use it in higher numbers.  High demand would still exist even if it slows while in the CBD.  A bus gets stuck at red lights but the streetcar has its own track. 

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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13 minutes ago, Oxford19 said:

Still, even if it is slow at times in the CBD, riders, if they really had use for the streetcar would still use it in higher numbers.

 

If I'm going from the CBD back home to OTR, I walk to the streetcar stop and look at the real time arrival display. If it's less than 8 or 9 minutes away, I will wait for the streetcar. If it's 10+ minutes away, I will walk home. Contrary to popular opinion, you can not walk faster than the streetcar unless you're running and jaywalking, but if you factor in the waiting time, sometimes it's not worth the wait. Does that mean that I, as a rider, don't "have a use for the streetcar"? No, I have a use for it, I just weighed my options and decided not to use it in that particular scenario.

 

The streetcar flies through OTR, so I will always take it going north. But as soon as it makes the turn from Central Parkway onto Walnut, it stops at almost every traffic light on Walnut, a traffic light on Second, and almost every traffic light on Main. It's incredibly frustrating, especially because it's such a simple problem to solve. All of the traffic lights that were installed along the route already have the capability to have signal priority and every streetcar already has the transmitter to activate it; the city administration just refuses to turn it on.

 

Remember that we were told wait times would be a maximum of 12 minutes during peak hours and 15 minutes off-peak, meaning that if I walk to a random streetcar stop between 11 a.m. and 7 p.m., the wait time should be about 6 minutes on average. Those headways are not being met due to the friction in the CBD.

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If you look at the Tampa Streetcar, they had middling ridership for over a decade. They went fare free and ridership increased by about 250-300% even with much worse headways than our system. 

 

***

The @TampaStreetcar went fare free in late 2018. Here’s how December ridership compares.

December 2017- 31,892.

December 2018- 91,128.

Peak service is 15 minute headway’s. Off peak and all weekends is 20 minutes headway’s.

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^ @thomasbw - Any idea what time frame we might expect for any of the recommendations from the traffic study to be implemented? Even without signal priority, better-timed lights on Main and Walnut would be a huge improvement.

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37 minutes ago, Oxford19 said:

It is? Where?

 

Unless, @ColDayMan is referring to something that I'm not aware of, there are no stations that are free all the time. However, during special events SEPTA will run free trains at certain times. An example would be the Sports Complex station after an Eagles game or a big concert. Or 5th Street/Independence Hall station on the Fourth of July. These are usually sponsored. So you'll see advertisements that say "Take SEPTA to the Eagles game courtesy of Miller Lite!" or something like that. 

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Just now, taestell said:

 

If I'm going from the CBD back home to OTR, I walk to the streetcar stop and look at the real time arrival display. If it's less than 8 or 9 minutes away, I will wait for the streetcar. If it's 10+ minutes away, I will walk home. Contrary to popular opinion, you can not walk faster than the streetcar unless you're running and jaywalking, but if you factor in the waiting time, sometimes it's not worth the wait. Does that mean that I, as a rider, don't "have a use for the streetcar"? No, I have a use for it, I just weighed my options and decided not to use it in that particular scenario.

 

The streetcar flies through OTR, so I will always take it going north. But as soon as it makes the turn from Central Parkway onto Walnut, it stops at almost every traffic light on Walnut, a traffic light on Second, and almost every traffic light on Main. It's incredibly frustrating, especially because it's such a simple problem to solve. All of the traffic lights that were installed along the route already have the capability to have signal priority and every streetcar already has the transmitter to activate it; the city administration just refuses to turn it on.

 

Remember that we were told wait times would be a maximum of 12 minutes during peak hours and 15 minutes off-peak, meaning that if I walk to a random streetcar stop between 11 a.m. and 7 p.m., the wait time should be about 6 minutes on average. Those headways are not being met due to the friction in the CBD.

Right, it's a challenge for many transit systems today as ridership is declining generally.  If it's not convenient or worth the ''hassle'', potential riders are using other options.

 

It looks like, besides the 12-15 minute waits, ridership was supposed to be 3,000. Is ridership of 850/per day in February due to CBD slowdown the reason why it's so far off?

 

I bet during the Reds season, ridership is higher despite the CBD slowdown because demand is higher. So, it goes back to the general demand for this system.  

 

You may have a use for the streetcar but you don't always want to use it.

 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, thomasbw said:

If you look at the Tampa Streetcar, they had middling ridership for over a decade. They went fare free and ridership increased by about 250-300% even with much worse headways than our system. 

 

***

The @TampaStreetcar went fare free in late 2018. Here’s how December ridership compares.

December 2017- 31,892.

December 2018- 91,128.

Peak service is 15 minute headway’s. Off peak and all weekends is 20 minutes headway’s.

 

On the flip side, Oklahoma City streetcar weekday ridership dropped 58.3% since they started charging a fare. 

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Just now, thomasbw said:

If you look at the Tampa Streetcar, they had middling ridership for over a decade. They went fare free and ridership increased by about 250-300% even with much worse headways than our system. 

 

***

The @TampaStreetcar went fare free in late 2018. Here’s how December ridership compares.

December 2017- 31,892.

December 2018- 91,128.

Peak service is 15 minute headway’s. Off peak and all weekends is 20 minutes headway’s.

Isn't the Cincy streetcar a $1.00 to ride?  Sounds like the ''free rider'' option may work there as well, especially if, as you say, the headways are longer in Tampa.

 

Unless these new streetcars have completely dedicated rail lanes with proper signaling, what's the point of building these in 2019?

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Just now, Oxford19 said:

Right, it's a challenge for many transit systems today as ridership is declining generally. 

 

Transit ridership is tacking downward nationally because:

 

1. ultra-cheap borderline-predatory 7-year car loans are getting people who can't afford cars into cars

2. cheap gas

3. ridershare (which is highly subsidized) pecking away at off-peak ridership.  The most egregious example is in San Francisco, where commute crowds on BART are the highest ever but night and weekend ridership is down so dramatically that overall ridership is down despite the surge in rush hour ridership.   

 

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35 minutes ago, Oxford19 said:

Right, it's a challenge for many transit systems today as ridership is declining generally.  If it's not convenient or worth the ''hassle'', potential riders are using other options.

 

It looks like, besides the 12-15 minute waits, ridership was supposed to be 3,000. Is ridership of 850/per day in February due to CBD slowdown the reason why it's so far off?

 

I bet during the Reds season, ridership is higher despite the CBD slowdown because demand is higher. So, it goes back to the general demand for this system.  

 

You may have a use for the streetcar but you don't always want to use it.

 

If the demand-side is the issue then the streetcar's problems will sort themselves out in the long-run. More people are moving into the CBD and OTR every day. As more apartments come on line there'll be more potential riders. 

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4 hours ago, Oxford19 said:

It looks like, besides the 12-15 minute waits, ridership was supposed to be 3,000. Is ridership of 850/per day in February due to CBD slowdown the reason why it's so far off?

 

The 3000 riders/day estimate was based on a number of different types of riders. The reasons why those riders aren't riding are different in each case.

 

People who live along the route and take it to work and/or for random errands — I know many people who do this, but it's not a huge percentage of total riders. As more residential development happens in the north part of the neighborhood, this will increase. So far, residential development north of Liberty has been pretty slow.

 

People who take the bus to the core and transfer to the streetcar to complete their trip — Metro has made zero effort to advertise to bus riders that their monthly pass is valid fare on the streetcar, or that they can purchase a transfer and use it on the streetcar. I would guess that the average bus rider does not know this. Metro should consider putting some express bus routes in the Transit Center and many people would transfer to the streetcar to get to their final destination in the CBD or OTR.

 

CBD workers taking it to lunch — If the streetcar came reliably every 12 minutes, CBD workers would understand, "oh, I can catch the streetcar and go up to Vine Street or Findlay Market for lunch." But since it comes every 18 or 20 minutes in reality, people aren't going to do that. Or they try it once and get back late and give up on it.

 

People coming to the CBD/OTR, parking once, and using the streetcar to get around point-to-point — I would say this has been the bulk of the ridership, but the introduction of ridesharing, e-scooters, and RedBike has cut into this to some degree. None of these existed when the system was originally being planned.

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^The system hasn't had more than 3 streetcars running at any point since the opening weekend, when all 5 ran.  Also, it was free.   I have personally watched large groups get split up because half of the group can't buy tickets in time. 

 

Making the system free, consistently running 4 streetcars instead of 2 or 3, giving the streetcars signal priority at 10+ intersections, and aggressively ticking and towing blockages will make the thing a success.  Cranley refuses to do...anything. 

 

 

  

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6 hours ago, DEPACincy said:

 

Unless, @ColDayMan is referring to something that I'm not aware of, there are no stations that are free all the time. However, during special events SEPTA will run free trains at certain times. An example would be the Sports Complex station after an Eagles game or a big concert. Or 5th Street/Independence Hall station on the Fourth of July. These are usually sponsored. So you'll see advertisements that say "Take SEPTA to the Eagles game courtesy of Miller Lite!" or something like that. 

 

Ya gotta head west going down _ _ _ _ _ _ ...

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"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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18 hours ago, thomasbw said:

On time performance is around 40%, but it's measured against a schedule that's not publicly available, so that one is less important. You can just look to see how long it is until the next train on the sign or the transit app. People aren't planning a trip based on the 2:06pm streetcar being there, it's more of a "you just walk out and see when the next one is coming" type situation.

It may be less important (people aren't actively receiving "fake news"; that's a big step), but it means the advertised headways aren't being met, which is another form of unreliability:

15 hours ago, taestell said:

CBD workers taking it to lunch — If the streetcar came reliably every 12 minutes, CBD workers would understand, "oh, I can catch the streetcar and go up to Vine Street or Findlay Market for lunch." But since it comes every 18 or 20 minutes in reality, people aren't going to do that. Or they try it once and get back late and give up on it. 

 

But I would guess that the ability to get reliable information about when a streetcar will arrive at a station is fueling the ridership increases seen over the past few months. As people who have been burned in the past start to learn that they can check an app or check the signs for reliable info, hopefully that effect snowballs.

 

Achieving 10-minute headways would be a game-changer for ridership. Failing to hit the advertised 12-15 minutes is a game-changer in the other direction. These are achievable goals that probably wouldn't even require the mayor's support, if council were motivated to have DOTE implement signal priority/preemption. This could be done in phases, starting with off-peak hours and a goal of hitting the advertised headways. Then maybe eventually aiming for 10-minute (or less) headways when all vehicles are running and utilizing signal priority/preemption during peak hours so that commuters could benefit from it.

Edited by Robuu

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Right. Also, as time goes on, we get further and further away from the controversy and intense debate that surrounded the streetcar for almost a decade. Someone who moved to Cincinnati in the last 1 or 2 years sees the streetcar and goes "what's this thing?" They aren't poisoned by years of the Enquirer, WLW, and TV news saying that the streetcar is satan incarnate.

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The way to pitch it would be to point out that enabling the signal preemption that's already installed, plus some of the other recommended tweaks (I don't know what they all are or how expensive they might be, but they're just one-time things) is a less expensive way to improve headways and reliability without having to put more cars in operation.  Of course more cars would still be better, and the fact that 3 cars are the most that have been run since opening day is criminal. 

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If peak hours never displayed a wait of 10+ minutes, ridership would likely increase pretty significantly. That double digit wait time is a psychological barrier.

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Most of the tweaks wouldn't cost anything. Tweaking the traffic signal timing would only cost city employee's time, which is not something we typically account for. The city has already installed the "fiber network" that allows them to centrally control and re-time downtown traffic signals. Even if there is some small capital cost, I believe there is still a decent chunk of money available due to streetcar construction coming in under-budget. If we decided to also give certain Metro bus routes signal priority, we would have to buy transmitters for those buses, but all of the streetcars already have them.

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24 minutes ago, taestell said:

Most of the tweaks wouldn't cost anything. Tweaking the traffic signal timing would only cost city employee's time, which is not something we typically account for. The city has already installed the "fiber network" that allows them to centrally control and re-time downtown traffic signals. Even if there is some small capital cost, I believe there is still a decent chunk of money available due to streetcar construction coming in under-budget. If we decided to also give certain Metro bus routes signal priority, we would have to buy transmitters for those buses, but all of the streetcars already have them.

 

This may be true but I guarantee the administration would come up with a grossly inflated cost for it anyway to either avoid doing it or to embarrass streetcar supporters on council 

Edited by thebillshark

www.cincinnatiideas.com

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36 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

If peak hours never displayed a wait of 10+ minutes, ridership would likely increase pretty significantly. That double digit wait time is a psychological barrier.

 

Agreed. This is huge. And even if you're going to have 10+ minute waits, at least have an app where the thing can be truly and effortlessly tracked. 

The free "Transit" app (from a 3rd Party) is not great for tracking the trains.

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16 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Transit ridership is tacking downward nationally because:

 

1. ultra-cheap borderline-predatory 7-year car loans are getting people who can't afford cars into cars

2. cheap gas

3. ridershare (which is highly subsidized) pecking away at off-peak ridership.  The most egregious example is in San Francisco, where commute crowds on BART are the highest ever but night and weekend ridership is down so dramatically that overall ridership is down despite the surge in rush hour ridership.   

 

All true.  However, the biggest culprit is urban sprawl: people and jobs out of the city and, in many cases, out of the central county.

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24 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

 

Agreed. This is huge. And even if you're going to have 10+ minute waits, at least have an app where the thing can be truly and effortlessly tracked. 

The free "Transit" app (from a 3rd Party) is not great for tracking the trains. 

I'd agree for 11+ minutes, but 10 minutes makes the mental math virtually trivial for calculating when a train will arrive, negating any effect of the "double-digit" phobia. Not to mention the proportion of time an arrival sign would actually display double-digits with 10-minute headways is tiny.

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How accurate is Google maps in regard to arrival times? Right now it says I could grab a train at The Banks at 11:43. Is this realtime data? 

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13 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

How accurate is Google maps in regard to arrival times? Right now it says I could grab a train at The Banks at 11:43. Is this realtime data? 

Good point about Google Maps. I think that's part of the 40% on-time schedule.

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1 hour ago, Oxford19 said:

All true.  However, the biggest culprit is urban sprawl: people and jobs out of the city and, in many cases, out of the central county.

 

When a dense city neighborhood gentrifies, transit ridership goes down.  Residents who could not afford cars are replaced by those who can and usually do.  Over-the-Rhine is a perfect example of this. 

 

 

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17 hours ago, DEPACincy said:

 

If the demand-side is the issue then the streetcar's problems will sort themselves out in the long-run. More people are moving into the CBD and OTR every day. As more apartments come on line there'll be more potential riders. 

Yes, potential riders.  Transit systems need daily commuters complemented by occasional riders.  Residential growth in CBDs doesn't always mean growth in transit use; people live in the CBD and if they work there, they're walkers or if they work outside the CBD, they're drivers.  Same with OTR: residential growth but how many actually work in the CBD? They may work outside the CBD and will use the streetcar for a Saturday Reds game.

 

Not sure where the 3,000 riders/day estimate came from but boy it sure looks like a lot of drama about this streetcar in Cincy.

 

Cities need major job growth on transit lines but the issue with the Cincy Streetcar is its confined, narrow, and limited service area which, so far, is preventing it from being a commuter transit line.

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Just now, jmecklenborg said:

 

When a dense city neighborhood gentrifies, transit ridership goes down.  Residents who could not afford cars are replaced by those who can and usually do.  Over-the-Rhine is a perfect example of this. 

 

 

Yeah, but OTR is a limited area to use against the broader sprawl going on.  So what was the point then of building a new rail streetcar in OTR if its use is expected to decline?  Do the new gentrifiers drive from OTR to a Reds game or even to work in the CBD? Therein then is the issue: more people with $ moving in with cars they will use instead of the streetcar.  Doesn't make sense then to provide new and expensive transit lines for these areas.

 

I know Cleveland is starting to develop lots of residential housing around some of its Red Line train stations yet how many of these new residents work along or have easy access to work from the Red Line?  Jobs along or adjacent to the Red Line will increase ridership.

 

You also state another stigma about public transit: it's for poor people who can't afford cars.  How do you get everyone on transit again?

Edited by Oxford19

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^Your posts are reflective of the "moving people" mentality that wants to apply heavy rail and light rail concepts to streetcars. The primary goal of streetcars generally isn't as a commuting device.

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10 minutes ago, Oxford19 said:

Yes, potential riders.  Transit systems need daily commuters complemented by occasional riders.  Residential growth in CBDs doesn't always mean growth in transit use; people live in the CBD and if they work there, they're walkers or if they work outside the CBD, they're drivers.  Same with OTR: residential growth but how many actually work in the CBD? They may work outside the CBD and will use the streetcar for a Saturday Reds game.

 

Not sure where the 3,000 riders/day estimate came from but boy it sure looks like a lot of drama about this streetcar in Cincy.

 

Cities need major job growth on transit lines but the issue with the Cincy Streetcar is its confined, narrow, and limited service area which, so far, is preventing it from being a commuter transit line.

 

The streetcar was never intended to be a commuter transit line. It was built as a circulator for the urban core. Ideally, there would be commuter rail and light rail throughout the city that would bring commuters to a couple of points downtown, and the streetcar could then distribute those people to their destinations throughout the basin. Without that network, the streetcar's impact is a bit muted, but it can and does still serve a good purpose. I think there are some issues with the route, and I do agree that mixed traffic rail really isn't all that advantageous to other forms of movement, but the system is what it is. It can be improved a lot by some relatively simple things like signal prioritization and vigilance when it comes to quickly removing track blockages. I also think we should look into removing a few stops to help speed it up, too. Add in more development along the line will also help, especially development in the northern (Findlay Market/Rhinegeist areas) and southern (Banks) areas, and make the aforementioned fixes, and the streetcar ridership will steadily climb. Also, the new FCC stadium should be another driver of ridership in coming years.

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Just now, GCrites80s said:

^Your posts are reflective of the "moving people" mentality that wants to apply heavy rail and light rail concepts to streetcars. The primary goal of streetcars generally isn't as a commuting device.

Then what's the point of having a streetcar in 2019?  Also I was responding to the post that stated that more people moving into OTR and CBD will save the streetcar.  

 

If the streetcar is just to shuttle people from The Banks to OTR, then there's no surprise that the ridership is lackluster.

 

If it's not for ''commuting'', then who came up with 3,000 riders/day opting to go to lunch at Findley Market or OTR?  

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^ There are 768 pages of posts documenting the history of the streetcar. If you're genuinely interested in finding answers to your questions, start reading.

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Just now, edale said:

 

The streetcar was never intended to be a commuter transit line. It was built as a circulator for the urban core. Ideally, there would be commuter rail and light rail throughout the city that would bring commuters to a couple of points downtown, and the streetcar could then distribute those people to their destinations throughout the basin. Without that network, the streetcar's impact is a bit muted, but it can and does still serve a good purpose. I think there are some issues with the route, and I do agree that mixed traffic rail really isn't all that advantageous to other forms of movement, but the system is what it is. It can be improved a lot by some relatively simple things like signal prioritization and vigilance when it comes to quickly removing track blockages. I also think we should look into removing a few stops to help speed it up, too. Add in more development along the line will also help, especially development in the northern (Findlay Market/Rhinegeist areas) and southern (Banks) areas, and make the aforementioned fixes, and the streetcar ridership will steadily climb. Also, the new FCC stadium should be another driver of ridership in coming years.

Light-rail or commuter rail riders want for the most part a stop for their destination so having a light rail in a city like Cincy to bring commuters downtown only to have them transfer to another ''circulator'' line doesn't make sense.  The big cities can get away with the transfer thing though.  

 

I see then, the Streetcar is designed for special use generally.  

 

Bottom line is though: the streetcar is there so make the best of it.

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Just now, edale said:

^ There are 768 pages of posts documenting the history of the streetcar. If you're genuinely interested in finding answers to your questions, start reading.

I see there's quite the drama about a very limited one-way streetcar.  Kinda funny.  Thanks for the discussion.  I get it, too many questions, too much discussion, too much touchiness. 

 

My apology for being a pest and getting you triggered.

 

If it's 768 pages, what's left to discuss, right?  It's a 2019 version of a a downtown ''people mover''. Case closed.

Edited by Oxford19

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It's not a one way streetcar, it's a loop. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about, but you come into this thread asking thinly veiled questions about why the streetcar isn't performing as well as it could. Stop. I've seen this with other forumers over the years plenty of times before. If you want to know information, there are ways to get it. If you want to critique and argue about something you're ignorant about, go elsewhere. 

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21 minutes ago, Oxford19 said:

Light-rail or commuter rail riders want for the most part a stop for their destination so having a light rail in a city like Cincy to bring commuters downtown only to have them transfer to another ''circulator'' line doesn't make sense.  The big cities can get away with the transfer thing though.  

 

I see then, the Streetcar is designed for special use generally.  

 

Bottom line is though: the streetcar is there so make the best of it.

 

This isn't really true. When I lived in Philly tons of suburbanites would take commuter rail or light rail into the city every day for work and then get to their final destination using a bus, streetcar, or subway line. I did the opposite for awhile and took the subway to the end of the line and transferred to a light rail line to get to my job in the suburbs. When you have an expansive system that is easy to use you get used to doing that. 

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1 hour ago, Robuu said:

I'd agree for 11+ minutes, but 10 minutes makes the mental math virtually trivial for calculating when a train will arrive, negating any effect of the "double-digit" phobia. Not to mention the proportion of time an arrival sign would actually display double-digits with 10-minute headways is tiny.

 

No doubt. If the headways are 10 minutes or less (and signs are truly accurate), then an appl/tracking isn't needed at all. 

However, the current (and previous) power players can't even get the thing to meet 12 minute or 15 minute headways during the arbitrary "peak" and "off-peak" times. This is why "free" fares will never matter if the system isn't fast and frequent first. Yeah the payment systems are awful (the app is decent), but who is even going to bother to pay when you're waiting 15 minutes to run a few blocks?
 

It is so incredibly disheartening to see how Cincinnati politicians, transit officials, leaders, etc. can't manage to run this thing within even a degree of success that other systems are experiencing.

This city, I swear. 

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^They can. Cranley just doesn't want to so that the West Side and Mason vote for him in some statewide election (probably as a Republican) that he'll still lose since nobody in the rest of the state has a positive opinion of him if they know who he is at all.

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It's no more feasible to have a single-seat transit ride to every destination than it is to have a parking spot in front of every destination. Transfers are inevitable, and they aren't so burdensome when the fare structure is accommodating and frequencies are high. The streetcar should make riding a bus into downtown or parking downtown more flexible, as you can exit the bus or park farther from your destination(s).

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25 minutes ago, Robuu said:

It's no more feasible to have a single-seat transit ride to every destination than it is to have a parking spot in front of every destination. Transfers are inevitable, and they aren't so burdensome when the fare structure is accommodating and frequencies are high. The streetcar should make riding a bus into downtown or parking downtown more flexible, as you can exit the bus or park farther from your destination(s).

 

Exactly! In Philly, transferring from light rail to the subway was never an issue because one came every 10 minutes and the other every 4. And they timed them so you had enough time to get from one to the other but that you weren't waiting very long. Get off subway and light rail leaves 5 minutes later, so you have time to make the 2 minute walk and 3 minutes of cushion. But the transfer only added 5 minutes to your commute. 

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2 hours ago, Oxford19 said:

My apology for being a pest and getting you triggered.

 

No one is "triggered", they just don't want to rehash the same points that have been discussed hundreds of times in this thread already.

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Just now, taestell said:

 

No one is "triggered", they just don't want to rehash the same points that have been discussed hundreds of times in this thread already.

Then close the thread if there are unwritten rules about what can or can't be discussed. I see though that my ignorance has created another discussion though...hmm.

 

Edited by Oxford19

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9 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

Exactly! In Philly, transferring from light rail to the subway was never an issue because one came every 10 minutes and the other every 4. And they timed them so you had enough time to get from one to the other but that you weren't waiting very long. Get off subway and light rail leaves 5 minutes later, so you have time to make the 2 minute walk and 3 minutes of cushion. But the transfer only added 5 minutes to your commute. 

Comparing Philly transit and its volume to Cincy's transit system? Please.  Reading this thread as instructed only shows a lot of drama and conspiracy theories about a short streetcar line that hasn't lived up to nearly being close to expectations.  Lots of excuse making though as to why the streetcar isn't working.

 

 

Edited by Oxford19

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42 minutes ago, Robuu said:

It's no more feasible to have a single-seat transit ride to every destination than it is to have a parking spot in front of every destination. Transfers are inevitable, and they aren't so burdensome when the fare structure is accommodating and frequencies are high. The streetcar should make riding a bus into downtown or parking downtown more flexible, as you can exit the bus or park farther from your destination(s).

It may make parking downtown and using it for special occasions acceptable for a Reds or Bengals game but comparing any transit stops with having a parking space in front of every destination is ridiculous.

 

There is a transit method that does have a single-seat ride to every destination: it's called Uber.

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7 minutes ago, Oxford19 said:

Comparing Philly transit and its volume to Cincy's transit system? Please.  Reading this thread as instructed only shows a lot of drama and conspiracy theories about a short streetcar line that hasn't lived up to nearly being close to expectations.  Lots of excuse making though as to why the streetcar isn't working.

 

You have to start somewhere. Do you think Philly's numerous streetcar lines, subway lines, and commuter rail lines just popped up over night? In Philly, people disparage the system constantly. Some of the gripes are legitimate but some of it is just not realizing how good they have it compared to most people in the USA. But when the system isn't working or needs improvement their response isn't BURN IT DOWN like it is here, it is "how do we make it better?" That's the difference between world class cities and a place like Cincinnati. Too many people her don't have any aspirations to make things better. The status quo is good enough.

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