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The time frame is still open to submit bids to SORTA right? Isn't there a potential for companies to raise their price if they know exactly how many other companies have submitted a bid and who they are?

 

 


www.cincinnatiideas.com

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Companies can bid however they want and having some bids public while others haven't been received is a really terrible idea. Uneven playing field and brings in outside influences which isn't good. If the low bidder is the last to turn in a bid and sees they're 10 percent less than the next highest they'll just raise their bid to still be the lowest but be much closer to the second lowest bid. It's best to keep everything under wraps until all bids have been returned.

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David Mann is bizarre.  It's almost like he didn't pay any attention to the streetcar when he was campaigning, and now he seems to be totally on board.  And it only cost us a million dollars.

 

^ You'd be amazed at what one trip to Portland does to increase understanding. Most Cincinnatians have no idea what a modern streetcar is -- they, like David Mann, need to see it. Our very last trip ever to Portland is in September -- two trips, actually. Message me if you want to go.

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^ You'd be amazed at what one trip to Portland does to increase understanding. Most Cincinnatians have no idea what a modern streetcar is -- they, like David Mann, need to see it.

 

Cincinnatians that don't get out much are going to be absolutely shocked when they see it in person for the first time. Most of the opponents still think we're getting a "trolley".

 

Our very last trip ever to Portland is in September -- two trips, actually. Message me if you want to go.

 

Should be a great time to go, right after the new Orange Line and Tilikum Crossing (the bridge for everything but private automobiles) open.

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^ You'd be amazed at what one trip to Portland does to increase understanding. Most Cincinnatians have no idea what a modern streetcar is -- they, like David Mann, need to see it.

 

Cincinnatians that don't get out much are going to be absolutely shocked when they see it in person for the first time. Most of the opponents still think we're getting a "trolley".

 

Our very last trip ever to Portland is in September -- two trips, actually. Message me if you want to go.

 

Should be a great time to go, right after the new Orange Line and Tilikum Crossing (the bridge for everything but private automobiles) open.

 

^ Travis, that's what I'm thinking.

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I just got back from Germany last week.  I'm more convinced than ever on rail transit.  That country is so well connected by trains its hard to believe (streetcars, light rail, subway, regional, and highspeed lines).  We did everything via train the whole time we were there and loved it!  There's nothing like it here in the states (and I've spent time in all of the big cities here with subways, lightrail, etc).  Berlin was especially impressive with its use of streetcars.  Many of their vehicles were just like the ones we're getting here.  We should be very excited.  I don't need to preach to the choir here, but I think the fundamental problem is that this region is full of a majority of people who don't understand what streetcars are for (don't fully know why that is, but I suspect its due to lack of travel experiences or living elsewhere).  John's trips to Portland are exactly the kind of eye opening experience that these people desperately need.  At this point I think all we can do is hope that once our system is in place that at least some of these people will come downtown and use it and start to see its effectiveness in terms of moving pedestrians around efficiently and conveniently.  Regardless, I think this city is going to really take off once this system is running and we're going to see it extended all over the place whether our current council/mayor wants it to or not:)

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I just got back from Germany last week.  I'm more convinced than ever on rail transit.  That country is so well connected by trains its hard to believe (streetcars, light rail, subway, regional, and highspeed lines).  We did everything via train the whole time we were there and loved it!  There's nothing like it here in the states (and I've spent time in all of the big cities here with subways, lightrail, etc).  Berlin was especially impressive with its use of streetcars.  Many of their vehicles were just like the ones we're getting here.  We should be very excited.  I don't need to preach to the choir here, but I think the fundamental problem is that this region is full of a majority of people who don't understand what streetcars are for (don't fully know why that is, but I suspect its due to lack of travel experiences or living elsewhere).  John's trips to Portland are exactly the kind of eye opening experience that these people desperately need.  At this point I think all we can do is hope that once our system is in place that at least some of these people will come downtown and use it and start to see its effectiveness in terms of moving pedestrians around efficiently and conveniently.  Regardless, I think this city is going to really take off once this system is running and we're going to see it extended all over the place whether our current council/mayor wants it to or not:)

 

In 2017 many people considering systems are going to be coming to Cincinnati rather than to Portland.

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^ You'd be amazed at what one trip to Portland does to increase understanding. Most Cincinnatians have no idea what a modern streetcar is -- they, like David Mann, need to see it.

 

Cincinnatians that don't get out much are going to be absolutely shocked when they see it in person for the first time. Most of the opponents still think we're getting a "trolley".

 

Our very last trip ever to Portland is in September -- two trips, actually. Message me if you want to go.

 

Should be a great time to go, right after the new Orange Line and Tilikum Crossing (the bridge for everything but private automobiles) open.

 

^ Travis, that's what I'm thinking.

 

John, I may be interested. I'll let you know. I'm actually in Portland as I type this (leaving tomorrow) but its never too early to think about my return trip.

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Charlie Winburn was just in the studio with Bill Cunningham on a 15-minute anti-streetcar rant.

 

I blame jmecklenborg[/member] for my opening of the IHeartRadio app on my phone for the first time this year... Stumbled upon this interesting discussion from the April 1st episode of the Brian Thomas Morning Show (63:50 - 66:30). Caller Richard explained that he is an outside utility contractor who worked last Spring on Duke's move of their West End substation for the Brent Spence replacement project. Included in this was the move of a 1900 foot 138 kV transmission line that is immersed in oil. He broke it down further stating that this 1900 foot line was actually 3 individual cables that were pulled into a 9 inch pipe and then filled with oil. All at the cost of $1.5m.

 

Now what I didn't find clear was if this was an actual move or a retirement of the old and installation of a new. Duke's Phase 1b estimate includes nearly $8m for "retirement of existing Pipe Type equipment" in Vine St.

 

Richard was trying to make the point, and Brian was buying it, that 1900 feet at $1.5m is a drop in the bucket compared to the 1.2 miles needed for the streetcar extension. Wonder if either knows how many feet are in a mile...


"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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I can't ever figure out if Brian Thomas is dumb, just playing dumb, or if he's stoned on the air.  I was on his show five years ago and within a month of my having rattled off factual rebuttals to subway myths there he was repeating the myths.  Was it in one ear and out the other?  Does he just not care?  Was he high again?

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^ I've been on his show. He's dumb like a fox. I remember telling him during a break, "man, you are good!" His answer, "I know."

 

I asked him what he did before talk radio. Answer: former chief U.S. litigator for Anthem Health Care. He knows his way around an argument.

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Charlie Winburn was just in the studio with Bill Cunningham on a 15-minute anti-streetcar rant.

 

I blame jmecklenborg[/member] for my opening of the IHeartRadio app on my phone for the first time this year... Stumbled upon this interesting discussion from the April 1st episode of the Brian Thomas Morning Show (63:50 - 66:30). Caller Richard explained that he is an outside utility contractor who worked last Spring on Duke's move of their West End substation for the Brent Spence replacement project. Included in this was the move of a 1900 foot 138 kV transmission line that is immersed in oil. He broke it down further stating that this 1900 foot line was actually 3 individual cables that were pulled into a 9 inch pipe and then filled with oil. All at the cost of $1.5m.

 

Now what I didn't find clear was if this was an actual move or a retirement of the old and installation of a new. Duke's Phase 1b estimate includes nearly $8m for "retirement of existing Pipe Type equipment" in Vine St.

 

Richard was trying to make the point, and Brian was buying it, that 1900 feet at $1.5m is a drop in the bucket compared to the 1.2 miles needed for the streetcar extension. Wonder if either knows how many feet are in a mile...

 

lol. if 1.5m is the avg rate for 1900 ft, then 1.2 miles would be around 5m... derp

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^ You'd be amazed at what one trip to Portland does to increase understanding. Most Cincinnatians have no idea what a modern streetcar is -- they, like David Mann, need to see it.

 

Cincinnatians that don't get out much are going to be absolutely shocked when they see it in person for the first time. Most of the opponents still think we're getting a "trolley".

 

Our very last trip ever to Portland is in September -- two trips, actually. Message me if you want to go.

 

Should be a great time to go, right after the new Orange Line and Tilikum Crossing (the bridge for everything but private automobiles) open.

 

^ Travis, that's what I'm thinking.

 

John, I may be interested. I'll let you know. I'm actually in Portland as I type this (leaving tomorrow) but its never too early to think about my return trip.

 

^ Assuming I get my act together -- questionable, given the exceptional weather forecast -- I plan to put the invitation for the final Portland tours up on FB this weekend. It will be two dates in the last half of September.

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Sometimes walking around in OTR on the weekend when it's overrun by the Bridge and Tunnel crowd is very entertaining. Just heard a young woman walking along 12th say, in a Drunk Girl/

voice, "Oh, those are those tracks. Did you hear how much it would cost to get up to Clif-ton? Like 37 mill-ion doll-ars. It was like a hid-den doc-u-ment."

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Everyone I pass and overhear in OTR these days is trying to explain OTR to the person they are with. It doesn't bother me except when they have the details wrong.


www.cincinnatiideas.com

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Sometimes walking around in OTR on the weekend when it's overrun by the Bridge and Tunnel crowd is very entertaining. Just heard a young woman walking along 12th say, in a Drunk Girl/

voice, "Oh, those are those tracks. Did you hear how much it would cost to get up to Clif-ton? Like 37 mill-ion doll-ars. It was like a hid-den doc-u-ment."

 

A+ and 2 gold stars for a Kroll Show reference.

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Sometimes walking around in OTR on the weekend when it's overrun by the Bridge and Tunnel crowd is very entertaining. Just heard a young woman walking along 12th say, in a Drunk Girl/

voice, "Oh, those are those tracks. Did you hear how much it would cost to get up to Clif-ton? Like 37 mill-ion doll-ars. It was like a hid-den doc-u-ment."

 

made. my. day. because I could hear that in his publizzity voice.

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Where are they getting their info? Surely they're not Willyboy devotees. Maybe they get it from their folks; or perhaps the general Cincinnati rumour mill.

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Sometimes walking around in OTR on the weekend when it's overrun by the Bridge and Tunnel crowd is very entertaining. Just heard a young woman walking along 12th say, in a Drunk Girl/

voice, "Oh, those are those tracks. Did you hear how much it would cost to get up to Clif-ton? Like 37 mill-ion doll-ars. It was like a hid-den doc-u-ment."

 

A+ and 2 gold stars for a Kroll Show reference.

 

I'll throw in another gold star for use of the term "Bridge and Tunnel crowd" in the context of Ohio. Can we make that a thing?

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More like Bridge & Beltway.


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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Looking at the stub rails, that were built for Phase II, I have one question. Why wasn't it possible to lead both tracks through Findlay St and in so doing radically cut the time needed for the streetcar to reach Uptown in that direction? Leading the Uptown-direction track through W Elder St seems completely unnecesarry to me. All that it would take to lead both directions through Findlay St would be to make it bi-directional east of Race St , more easily when adjacent section of Findlay St is also bi-directional...

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Looking at the stub rails, that were built for Phase II, I have one question. Why wasn't it possible to lead both tracks through Findlay St and in so doing radically cut the time needed for the streetcar to reach Uptown in that direction? Leading the Uptown-direction track through W Elder St seems completely unnecesarry to me. All that it would take to lead both directions through Findlay St would be to make it bi-directional east of Race St , more easily when adjacent section of Findlay St is also bi-directional...

 

I think it's because of the complex 5-way intersection of Vine, McMicken, and Findlay.

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It's because traffic engineers are convinced that Elder & Findlay must both be one way streets or the world will collapse because traffic.  Just like Main & Walnut are each one way streets when they should be two-way.

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The division of tracks allows one block of Race St. track to operate as a return loop for Vine St. hill streetcars, in the rare event that streetcar operations would be obstructed somewhere in Over-the-Rhine. 

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Streetcar supporters want more frequent stops

 

Cincinnati's streetcar should make more frequent stops at each Downtown and Over-the-Rhine station than is currently proposed.

 

That's what some of the streetcar's most loyal supporters said Monday night during a meeting to allow the public to weigh in on the proposed ticket prices and service plan.

 

Longtime supporters John Schneider and Margo Warminski told SORTA officials that they want to see the streetcar make station stops every 10 minutes – two to five minutes more often than Metro's current proposal.

 

Cont


"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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Streetcar supporters want more frequent stops

 

Cincinnati's streetcar should make more frequent stops at each Downtown and Over-the-Rhine station than is currently proposed.

 

That's what some of the streetcar's most loyal supporters said Monday night during a meeting to allow the public to weigh in on the proposed ticket prices and service plan.

 

Longtime supporters John Schneider and Margo Warminski told SORTA officials that they want to see the streetcar make station stops every 10 minutes – two to five minutes more often than Metro's current proposal.

 

Cont

 

No mention at all about the obvious - later hours.  Did anyone attend this meeting?  Someone had to have proposed later running times.

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Yeah, I would love to hear a first hand account of what happened from anyone that could attend. I was hearing that it wrapped up early, so some of the later arrivals did not get a chance to give their feedback.

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Short presentation by SORTA

 

Five speakers signed up

 

Two more asked to speak later

 

Sentiment was for later starting times and closing times.

 

Lasted maybe an hour.

 

Another one next week in OTR.

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When I lived in Washington, DC it was a pain that Metro closed at midnight.  I suppose if you want to stay a bit later there will be Taxis, Uber, etc.  Or you can just drive home drunk! 

 

Has any thought been given to baseball games that go past closing time?  This was also a big issue in DC when the city landed the Expos. 

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You're invited on the very last Portland streetcar tour, ever.

 

Cincinnatians have made 33 trips there since 2001 -- 490 total visits. Portland continues to amaze and has lessons for cities like Cincinnati. In mid-September, Portland will open its fifth light rail line and will complete the final segment of its 17-mile streetcar loop. And the weather will be excellent.

 

Because we had so many people on our last tour, we're going to do two separate tours next time, one on September 21st and another on September 23rd. You could do it either day, and you could arrive earlier or stay later if you want. The Pacific Northwest is a great place, and many people travel on to Seattle and Vancouver or to the Cascade Mountains or to the Oregon shore.

 

Cincinnati-Portland/Seattle airfares for those dates are pretty reasonable right now, but they will rise steeply over the next few months. I've reserved a bunch of rooms in a terrific hotel at a deeply discounted rate, but you could stay anywhere.

 

If you're interested, write me here: john@protransit.com

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John, if you ever decide it's time to show people what a streetcar network looks like, I will gladly help you coordinate trips to Munich. 

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Last Streetcar tour, but I have a feeling it would be a good idea in 3 years or so to start doing tours to see how the MAX line integrates.

 

Also, the feds are helping Tampa study expansion feasibility (for historic streetcar... but still):

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/news/2015/04/22/tampas-historic-streetcar-gets-1m-boost-from-fdot.html?ana=twt

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What an PIECE OF WORK. The streetcar will BENEFIT these events. Hopefully organizers realize this and this will be a non-issue.

 

EDIT for Language

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You'd have to get more creative... but it seems to me that the Banks / Freedom Way make way more sense for these types of events anyway. 5th street made sense before the creation of the Banks. But now that there's an option that doesn't disrupt the entire flow of downtown, isn't that ideal? You wouldn't have to navigate around the location of the festival itself to park and hell, you could...TAKE THE STREETCAR THERE!

 

I see this as nothing more than a way for Cranley to say  "See? Look how stupid fixed rail is! It can't move out of the way when we need it to. Now, here's Charlie Winburn to present a slide on Rubber Wheeled Trollies..."

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^ I was one of the people who planned Cincinnati's new riverfront, and it was always assumed that special events would move down there -- away from downtown where they are kind of a nuisance for businesses and residents.

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Wouldn't moving the festivals to the riverfront be more efficient for the Metro buses too, that are subject to detours away from Government Square? Wouldn't it also be more efficient for those that are driving to the events to cruise around downtown and find a garage to park in without the festival blocking their path?

 

Seems like this is a ploy to 1. appeal to Cincinnatians's natural visceral rejections of any changes whatsoever and 2. present the streetcar as useless to those who only come downtown twice a year for these festivals. 


www.cincinnatiideas.com

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I, for one, would love it if Taste of Cincinnati and Oktoberfest would move to the Banks/Smale Park.  It is way too crowded along the narrow Fifth Street corridor during the peak hours of those festivals.  I liked Taste better when it was on Central Parkway because there was more room to move around. Add the benefit of parking cheaply in OTR and taking the streetcar to the festival, and it sounds like a win-win to me.  Those would probably be some of the highest fare days of the year for the streetcar.  Makes no sense to cancel service on those days.

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Regardless of the streetcar operating or not, these festivals are frankly awful on Fifth Street. It's just too linear and narrow. It's not a conducive space to a festival. The riverfront will have many massive open areas, performance spaces, existing bars and restaurants, roads, parking, existing attractions like the playground, swings, spraygrounds, carousel, etc. that are all fit for a festival in ways a Downtown street will ever be. It just makes sense to have festivals down there. Show off something the taxpayers spent a lot of money on creating.

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Isn't there a proposal to put an open container district at the Banks? Wouldn't that help festivals if they moved there?


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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Based on the rewording of the open container law, one district covers almost the entirety of the riverfront, Downtown, and OTR.

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I agree it makes more sense to move festivals to the banks. But honestly to make both work together and keep where it is, all they would need are those sawhorses they use to close off the midway during midpoint and have a crossing guard at each of the 2 intersections, right?  Such a non-issue.

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Once again, Cranley could have taken the stance of saying "yes, this a good chance to show off the streetcar.  Let's move the festivals to the Banks."  But instead, he still is crying like a sore loser over this issue. 

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