Cleveland: Population Trends

[Evergrey]

Cuyahoga, Alleghany (Pittsburgh), Wayne (Detroit) and Cook (Chicago) all ranked in the top 10 terms of in total people moving out of these counties. But in terms of percentage I doubt any of the four cracked the top 50. A large swath of counties in the high plains from west Texas to North Dakota lost roughly 2-8% of their population due to deaths and out-migration due to larger farms that need fewer people. It's also easy to drop a high percentage in these counties if as few as 30 people disappear in a county of 400.

 

Just to nitpick... Allegheny DID NOT rank in the Top 10 of total people moving out of the county.  It also did not rank in the Top 10 for net migration loss.  It did, however, rank in the Top 10 for raw "population loss"... which in Allegheny's case is primarily due to deaths outnumbering births... a legacy of the demographic devastation that occured in the wake of the steel collapse 20-25 years ago.  In almost every other major county... births outnumber deaths... even in struggling population losers like Cuyahoga and Wayne, MI... which makes up for some of the out-migration.

 

There is an important distinction between the two primary components of population change... natural and migration.  Though I could suppose you could claim people who die are "moving out of the county to the county of Heaven, NC" lol

 

For example... from 2000-2006... Allegheny, PA has had a net migration of approx. -46k... about half the total number and half the rate of Cuyahoga. 

 

Let's compare components of population change for fun... 2000-2006... these are just raw numbers cuz I don't feel like doing percentages right now:

 

Allegheny, PA

Natural: -9k

Migration: -45k

 

Cuyahoga, OH

Natural: 16k

Migration: -91k

 

Franklin, OH

Natural: 56k

Migration: -26k

 

Hamilton, OH

Natural: 22k

Migration: -67k

 

Erie, NY

Natural: 4k

Migration: -29k

 

Wayne, MI

Natural: 59k

Migration: -142k

 

Mecklenburg, NC

Natural: 50k

Migration: 85k

 

Cook, IL

Natural: 236k

Migration: -327k

 

as a side note... Cook, IL (Chicago) experienced a mind-boggling DOMESTIC net migration of -601k... INTERNATIONAL net migration made up for less than half of that loss

[Oldmanladyluck]

This from today...

 

Fading away

Cleveland's population is less than half of 1950 levels; rank falls to 40th

Thursday, June 28, 2007

Robert L. SmithPlain Dealer Reporter

 

The news from the U.S. Census Bureau is not good for Cleveland, population 444,000, and falling. The city lost nearly 7 percent of its people from 2000 to 2006 and now ranks as America's 40th-largest city. That's down from 33rd and a world away from the 1920s, when Cleveland was the nation's fifth-largest city. Among major American cities, only New Orleans and Detroit suffered greater population losses, the Census Bureau will report today...

 

"We're not going to be able to turn this tide unless the region unifies," he said. "We need to get behind a single plan for attracting immigrants. Without them, we'll never grow."...

 

The city may be fading, but Greater Cleveland -- Cuyahoga, Summit, Lorain, Lake, Geauga, Portage and Ashtabula counties -- is home to 3 million people. We're the 15th-largest metro area.

 

By merging with Cuyahoga County, Cleveland would grow overnight to 1.3 million people, becoming America's seventh-largest city...

 

http://www.cleveland.com/census/index.ssf/2007/06/fading_away.html

 

 

[Oldmanladyluck]

And if we didn't all know this...

 

http://www.cleveland.com/census/images/census1_0628.gif

[KJP]

Here's the raw numbers, plus an old, great graphic someone posted in the "Cleveland Propaganda" thread in the urbanbar...

 

1860 -  43,417

1870 -  92,829

1880 - 158,207

1890 - 261,353

1900 - 381,768

1910 - 560,663

1920 - 762,026

1930 - 900,529

1940 - 878,336

1950 - 914,808

1960 - 876,050

1970 - 750,903

 

[the pope]

i like how the PD graphic wholly blames the interstates.

[w28th]

Cuyahoga, Alleghany (Pittsburgh), Wayne (Detroit) and Cook (Chicago) all ranked in the top 10 terms of in total people moving out of these counties. But in terms of percentage I doubt any of the four cracked the top 50. A large swath of counties in the high plains from west Texas to North Dakota lost roughly 2-8% of their population due to deaths and out-migration due to larger farms that need fewer people. It's also easy to drop a high percentage in these counties if as few as 30 people disappear in a county of 400.

 

Just to nitpick... Allegheny DID NOT rank in the Top 10 of total people moving out of the county.  It also did not rank in the Top 10 for net migration loss.  It did, however, rank in the Top 10 for raw "population loss"... which in Allegheny's case is primarily due to deaths outnumbering births... a legacy of the demographic devastation that occured in the wake of the steel collapse 20-25 years ago.  In almost every other major county... births outnumber deaths... even in struggling population losers like Cuyahoga and Wayne, MI... which makes up for some of the out-migration.

 

There is an important distinction between the two primary components of population change... natural and migration.  Though I could suppose you could claim people who die are "moving out of the county to the county of Heaven, NC" lol

 

For example... from 2000-2006... Allegheny, PA has had a net migration of approx. -46k... about half the total number and half the rate of Cuyahoga. 

 

Let's compare components of population change for fun... 2000-2006... these are just raw numbers cuz I don't feel like doing percentages right now:

 

Allegheny, PA

Natural: -9k

Migration: -45k

 

Cuyahoga, OH

Natural: 16k

Migration: -91k

 

Franklin, OH

Natural: 56k

Migration: -26k

 

Hamilton, OH

Natural: 22k

Migration: -67k

 

Erie, NY

Natural: 4k

Migration: -29k

 

Wayne, MI

Natural: 59k

Migration: -142k

 

Mecklenburg, NC

Natural: 50k

Migration: 85k

 

Cook, IL

Natural: 236k

Migration: -327k

 

as a side note... Cook, IL (Chicago) experienced a mind-boggling DOMESTIC net migration of -601k... INTERNATIONAL net migration made up for less than half of that loss

 

"Just for fun" and accuracy, I'd like to contest the numbers that Evergrey has come up with from a post above the most recent story here.  As usual it is skewing the numbers in pittsburgh's direction, and short changing Cleveland's.  The 2000-2006 population losses are as follows:

 

Alleghenny County:  -58,000  730 sq miles

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/42/42003.html

 

Cuyahoga County:    -79,000  458 sq miles

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/39/39035.html

 

Now obviously both are not good numbers, but the numbers are misleading because since alleghenny is much larger in square miles, it contains more of the sprawling area of the metro area.  In the end it's probably a wash. 

Census data and evergrey posts can never be looked at for face value or accuracy.

Next time you post statistics "for fun," make sure they're right.

 

 

[bizbiz]

I liked the idea on the PD's front page. Along the lines of, "If Cuyahoga County merged with Cleveland, we'd be #7 in population." Because numbers are everything!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thomasbw]

image quality a little fuzzy but here we go

 

[Evergrey]

Cuyahoga, Alleghany (Pittsburgh), Wayne (Detroit) and Cook (Chicago) all ranked in the top 10 terms of in total people moving out of these counties. But in terms of percentage I doubt any of the four cracked the top 50. A large swath of counties in the high plains from west Texas to North Dakota lost roughly 2-8% of their population due to deaths and out-migration due to larger farms that need fewer people. It's also easy to drop a high percentage in these counties if as few as 30 people disappear in a county of 400.

 

Just to nitpick... Allegheny DID NOT rank in the Top 10 of total people moving out of the county.  It also did not rank in the Top 10 for net migration loss.  It did, however, rank in the Top 10 for raw "population loss"... which in Allegheny's case is primarily due to deaths outnumbering births... a legacy of the demographic devastation that occured in the wake of the steel collapse 20-25 years ago.  In almost every other major county... births outnumber deaths... even in struggling population losers like Cuyahoga and Wayne, MI... which makes up for some of the out-migration.

 

There is an important distinction between the two primary components of population change... natural and migration.  Though I could suppose you could claim people who die are "moving out of the county to the county of Heaven, NC" lol

 

For example... from 2000-2006... Allegheny, PA has had a net migration of approx. -46k... about half the total number and half the rate of Cuyahoga. 

 

Let's compare components of population change for fun... 2000-2006... these are just raw numbers cuz I don't feel like doing percentages right now:

 

Allegheny, PA

Natural: -9k

Migration: -45k

 

Cuyahoga, OH

Natural: 16k

Migration: -91k

 

Franklin, OH

Natural: 56k

Migration: -26k

 

Hamilton, OH

Natural: 22k

Migration: -67k

 

Erie, NY

Natural: 4k

Migration: -29k

 

Wayne, MI

Natural: 59k

Migration: -142k

 

Mecklenburg, NC

Natural: 50k

Migration: 85k

 

Cook, IL

Natural: 236k

Migration: -327k

 

as a side note... Cook, IL (Chicago) experienced a mind-boggling DOMESTIC net migration of -601k... INTERNATIONAL net migration made up for less than half of that loss

 

"Just for fun" and accuracy, I'd like to contest the numbers that Evergrey has come up with from a post above the most recent story here.  As usual it is skewing the numbers in pittsburgh's direction, and short changing Cleveland's.  The 2000-2006 population losses are as follows:

 

Alleghenny County:   -58,000  730 sq miles

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/42/42003.html

 

Cuyahoga County:    -79,000  458 sq miles

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/39/39035.html

 

Now obviously both are not good numbers, but the numbers are misleading because since alleghenny is much larger in square miles, it contains more of the sprawling area of the metro area.  In the end it's probably a wash. 

Census data and evergrey posts can never be looked at for face value or accuracy.

Next time you post statistics "for fun," make sure they're right.

 

 

 

Please refrain from personal attacks.  There is nothing in my post that is misleading or inaccurate.  Those are numbers from the Census Bureau. 

[3231]

Evergrey,

 

W28th did not personally attack you in any way, shape or form. Just because someone challenges your potentially-flawed logic, it does not mean that they are personally attacking you. When you made a mistake on your fifth grade math test, did you consider it a personal attack when your teacher pointed it out?

[Neville]

Now obviously both are not good numbers, but the numbers are misleading because since alleghenny is much larger in square miles, it contains more of the sprawling area of the metro area.  In the end it's probably a wash.

Census data and evergrey posts can never be looked at for face value or accuracy.

Next time you post statistics "for fun," make sure they're right.

 

Sounds like a personal attack to me.

 

And as for the numbers, they were taken straight from census data. He just didn't interpret them for all of you.

[thomasbw]

image quality a little fuzzy but here we go

 

 

It seems like every new century we get a new largest city

 

19th- Cincinnati

20th- Cleveland

21st- Columbus

22nd- ??

[Neville]

22nd- Toledo

 

[quietly laughs to self]

[MayDay]

Alright folks, get back on topic or this thread gets canned.

[8ShadesofGray]

Slightly back on topic, I did think Rosentraub's sense of urgency seems a little peculiar. I could be wrong, but wasn't he quoted in a similar article a few years back about how a) Census estimates may prove inaccurate and b) that our city should be more concerned about smart decline than about trying to stem the decline altogether?

 

God, as much as I'm a data geek and love the information access that places like the Census Bureau, the GAO and the BLS afford, it's tough to counter negative perceptions of the community when the naysayers are inundated with negative data on what seems to be a quarterly basis.

[MyTwoSense]

8shades, I agree.  The 2003 Cleveland market drill down the city did, suggest the census is way off.

 

this is so depressing.

[w28th]

Now obviously both are not good numbers, but the numbers are misleading because since alleghenny is much larger in square miles, it contains more of the sprawling area of the metro area.  In the end it's probably a wash.

Census data and evergrey posts can never be looked at for face value or accuracy.

Next time you post statistics "for fun," make sure they're right.

 

Sounds like a personal attack to me.

 

And as for the numbers, they were taken straight from census data. He just didn't interpret them for all of you.

 

The census bureau links in question are in my previous post.  The pittsburgh numbers were off by +14,000 and the Cleveland numbers were -12,000.  What is there to be interperated?

[w28th]

Posts are made when it is convenient for that particular forumer.

 

Anyways, it is a numbers game because of the amount of federal funds a city gets is based on it's population, not its land area.  I remember hearing something like $500,000,000 of additional funding would be available to the city if it were that size.  Obviously it would take a lot to run services for a city that size, but that's a lot of money.  If that is in fact true, that's something that shuold be known by these suburban mayors that are opposed to such a merger.

[MyTwoSense]

Posts are made when it is convenient for that particular forumer.

 

Anyways, it is a numbers game because of the amount of federal funds a city gets is based on it's population, not its land area.  I remember hearing something like $500,000,000 of additional funding would be available to the city if it were that size.  Obviously it would take a lot to run services for a city that size, but that's a lot of money.  If that is in fact true, that's something that shuold be known by these suburban mayors that are opposed to such a merger.

 

there are verying levels of population.

for example

250-499k receives X fed Dollars

500-769k receives X Fed Dollars

 

does anyone know the actual breakdowns?

 

I just know that money received when your population is under 500k is significant to your population being at 500,001.

[bizbiz]

Wow, Toledo will probably pass Cleveland by the next census report. And then maybe Mansfield could be bigger than Cleveland. Actually, before we know it, Cleveland is going to be the smallest city in the country. Better scrap all the projects in Cleveland, there won't be anybody left to "live, work, and play" at them! *SARCASM TO THE MAX*

[MyTwoSense]

Wow, Toledo will probably pass Cleveland by the next census report. And then maybe Mansfield could be bigger than Cleveland. Actually, before we know it, Cleveland is going to be the smallest city in the country. Better scrap all the projects in Cleveland, there won't be anybody left to "live, work, and play" at them! *SARCASM TO THE MAX*

 

Sad part about your sarcasm, is that someone will preceive that as "real".......

[KJP]

Wow, Toledo will probably pass Cleveland by the next census report. And then maybe Mansfield could be bigger than Cleveland. Actually, before we know it, Cleveland is going to be the smallest city in the country. Better scrap all the projects in Cleveland, there won't be anybody left to "live, work, and play" at them! *SARCASM TO THE MAX*

 

PD's headline writers seem to be suggesting that with the "Fading Away" headline. How about this for a headline: "How Do WE Stop It?"

[novusordo0205]

Step one:  carve large "X"s into 90, 77, and 71, like Mayor Daley did to the runways at Miegs Field near city limits.  Voila!

 

The correlation between the birth of Eisenhower Highway System and Cleveland population decline is interesting.  How appealing would a commute of 40 miles or more each way to people if highways were not in place?  I believe we'd see a far different Cleveland today had the highways been restricted somehow from encroaching on city limits (e.g., with circular by-passes, I guess?).  Highways only lead to sprawl - hence, bring on $10 a gallon gas.

 

Sadly, it appears that my "modest proposal" will never occur.  Higher gas, on the other hand...

[MyTwoSense]

Step one:  carve large "X"s into 90, 77, and 71, like Mayor Daley did to the runways at Miegs Field near city limits.  Voila!

 

The correlation between the birth of Eisenhower Highway System and Cleveland population decline is interesting.  How appealing would a commute of 40 miles or more each way to people if highways were not in place?  I believe we'd see a far different Cleveland today had the highways been restricted somehow from encroaching on city limits (e.g., with circular by-passes, I guess?).  Highways only lead to sprawl - hence, bring on $10 a gallon gas.

 

Sadly, it appears that my "modest proposal" will never occur.  Higher gas, on the other hand...

 

I say we all meet on the inner belt bridge...and post the two big "x" that they have at hopkins to stop planes from taking off/landing on the old runway, smack dab in the middle of that puppy and let our very on "X" flip the switch!

 

DOWN WITH HIGHWAYS!!  and parking lots!

[Florida Guy]

Cleveland is third among the "majors" instead of fourth because St. Louis challenged their estimates. It is fifth overall.

 

Here are the numbers:

[X]

Why haven't we bothered to challenge the Census Bureau?  And why haven't big city mayors and representatives banded together to fight for a more fair methodology.  These numbers, while flawed, define the "reality" that investors operate on.  They are very important.

[MyTwoSense]

Why haven't we bothered to challenge the Census Bureau?  And why haven't big city mayors and representatives banded together to fight for a more fair methodology.  These numbers, while flawed, define the "reality" that investors operate on.  They are very important.

 

We have, we even had a "drill down report" prepared in 2003 that should we had approx. 100k more people in cleveland proper than the government estimated/reported.

 

so today even if 7k left we'd still have over 550k people in the city proper.

[X]

The Drilldown report isn't a census challenge, it's an alternate estimate.  Have we made a direct appeal to the Census Bureau to get their numbers changed?

[Florida Guy]

Why haven't we bothered to challenge the Census Bureau?  And why haven't big city mayors and representatives banded together to fight for a more fair methodology.  These numbers, while flawed, define the "reality" that investors operate on.  They are very important.

 

The question I didn't ask but the reason I posted the chart. St. Louis & Cincinnati are completely off of the list because they challenged and won. Cleveland has challenged the Census Bureau in the past and won as well. Its time to do it again!

[MyTwoSense]

The Drilldown report isn't a census challenge, it's an alternate estimate.  Have we made a direct appeal to the Census Bureau to get their numbers changed?

 

I think the last time we challenged was the early / mid portion of the Mike White era?  I can't remember.  But I know a similar drill down was used as the foundation, to challenge the census, which is why I mentioned it.

 

Why haven't we bothered to challenge the Census Bureau?  And why haven't big city mayors and representatives banded together to fight for a more fair methodology.  These numbers, while flawed, define the "reality" that investors operate on.  They are very important.

 

The question I didn't ask but the reason I posted the chart. St. Louis & Cincinnati are completely off of the list because they challenged and won. Cleveland has challenged the Census Bureau in the past and won as well. Its time to do it again!

 

i was typing and you posted this.  I think Boston or Baltimore challenged at the same time Cleveland did. I cant remember the year, but I do know rmember many eastside 'burbs populations were also adjusted because cuyahoga county joined in the challenge.

[brtshrcegr]

Just heard a VERY interesting segment on "Marketplace" on 90.3 WCPN about the new Census numbers (listen to the segment http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2007/06/28/PM200706284.html), and more specifically, the flawed reporting in urban areas.  They had on the CEO of an organization called Urban Strategies, which assists cities challenge the Census Bureau's numbers; he's currently in Miami conducting talks with it's mayor.

 

Apparently, while only two cities challenged the numbers in 2002, 41 did last year.  St. Louis has been successful 8 years running, and Mayor Mallory is attempting to organize cities nationwide to more effectively call out the Census Bureau.  What's even more shocking is the Bureau's methodology: In the case of successful challenges, it refuses to adjust the national total upward.  Instead, it just takes population AWAY from municipalities that didn't challenge their numbers!

 

What a bunch of dolts....

[Florida Guy]

Apparently, while only two cities challenged the numbers in 2002, 41 did last year.

 

I think you mean 2005 (41), 2002 (14), so far only St Louis has challenged 2006. Baltimore has challenged every year from 2001 to 2005 and had their numbers adjusted favorably.

 

Recent Ohio City Challenges:

 

2005

 

Avon Lake city OH 6/21/2006 20,608     22,280

Cincinnati city OH 10/20/2006 308,728      331,310

Lorain city OH   7/19/2006   67,820       69,803

 

2003

 

Mentor city     OH      9/28/2004       50,004      51,092

Jackson twn     OH      10/14/2004      37,213    39,558

 

2002

 

Cuyahoga Falls OH       10/02/2003      49,236    50,272

 

If anyone is interested, here is the link that explains how to initiate a challenge:

 

http://www.census.gov/popest/archives/challenges.html

[MyTwoSense]

letter writing campaign!  I know I called my councilman when the census workers tried to tell me I lived in Shaker Heights.

[thomasbw]

Cincinnati is challenging 2006, the mayor offered a preemptive challenge before the numbers were even released.

[lopsidedfrock]

just a personal anecdote regarding census estimates

 

in 2000 i was counted in wickliffe.  since then i've been uncounted in cleveland hts, cleveland, and in a house that straddles the border between cleveland and cleveland hts (who claims you then?).  i am in toledo now, who knows where i'll be after graduating in 2009.  there's nary a record of my existence in any of these municipalities.  i guess everyone who is in the know is aware that the gold standard is the decennial census (not yearly estimates), and even that is rife with inaccuracy. 

 

[MyTwoSense]

just a personal anecdote regarding census estimates

 

in 2000 i was counted in wickliffe.  since then i've been uncounted in Cleveland hts, Cleveland, and in a house that straddles the border between Cleveland and Cleveland hts (who claims you then?).  i am in toledo now, who knows where i'll be after graduating in 2009.  there's nary a record of my existence in any of these municipalities.  i guess everyone who is in the know is aware that the gold standard is the decennial census (not yearly estimates), and even that is rife with inaccuracy. 

 

 

I blame the unprepared and ill informed workers.  They caught me outside, and when they were asking about the census, and telling us our zip (44120 which is shared with shaker Hts and a small part of Cleveland Hts.) that we were in shaker heights I was pissed.  I could only think, how many people who live in our area were incorrectly counted as living in Shaker Heights?

 

Parts of the shaker square neighborhood that border Cleveland are tricky.  For instance, one house in the middle of the block can be Cleveland and the next house shaker Hts. this is not always obvious.  Especially on some of the streets that are parallel to van aken or off larchmere.  IIRC, there are one or two building near kinsman where one side (or one building) in the complex is in Cleveland and the other in Shaker Hts.

 

Its up to the leadership of the Greater Cleveland area census to do everything in their power to make sure our census tracking is accurate as possible.  Its got to start at the top.

[Mov2Ohio]

Well, the good news is the vast majority of American innercities seem to be regaining population reversing a 50+ year trend. The bad side is clear.

[Mov2Ohio]

Cleveland should jump on the bandwaggon.

 

__________________________________________________

 

Detroit balks at census tally, fights to be in top 10

Mike Wilkinson / The Detroit News

Last Updated: June 28. 2007 1:00AM

 

Townships gain as cities lose people

Interactive: Explore 2006 population estimates

 

Detroit officials intend to fight the U.S. Census Bureau over its latest population figures, saying the perception of a never-ending downward spiral doesn't reflect the reality of new housing and new residents.

 

"We're absolutely going to challenge the census numbers," mayoral spokesman Matt Allen said. "We believe it is significantly off."

 

The Census Bureau estimates, to be released this morning, indicate Detroit lost another 12,000 people between July 2005 and July 2006, putting the city's population around 871,000. The Census Bureau estimates the city has lost nearly 77,000 since 2000...

 

 

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070628/METRO/706280409

 

[CTownsFinest216]

cleveland NEEDS to fight the census. detroit is fighting it. st. louis has fought and won before.

 

no way i believe these numbers. i think all the older industrial cities are being undercounted too. personally ive been uncounted in cleveland.

 

i dont understand how i've still seen new subdivisions bein built WITHIN cuyahoga county when cuyahoga county has supposedly lost 6% of its population since 2000. how can you continue to build sprawl when there are hundreds of foreclosures and vacant lots in the county. this isnt just the city of cleveland either...its the whole county.

 

 

[Mov2Ohio]

cleveland NEEDS to fight the census. detroit is fighting it. st. louis has fought and won before.

 

no way i believe these numbers. i think all the older industrial cities are being undercounted too. personally ive been uncounted in cleveland.

 

i dont understand how i've still seen new subdivisions bein built WITHIN cuyahoga county when cuyahoga county has supposedly lost 6% of its population since 2000. how can you continue to build sprawl when there are hundreds of foreclosures and vacant lots in the county. this isnt just the city of cleveland either...its the whole county.

 

 

 

Cleveland (and Cuyahoga) seriously needs to fight the census. In Cincinnati's case the census added 10% to its updated estimated population, in a day it went from 304,00 to 332,000. In Cleveland's case a win could put the population over 500,000, which would mean more money for the city. Cuyahaoga needs to fight because suburbs will lose population to accomodate the addition of the "missing" residents in Cleveland.

[MyTwoSense]

Actually Cleveland + needs to fight the census.    :evil:

 

Even if the new population count is a small increase, I think the perceived affect will be a moral boost to the entire region.

 

 

[the pope]

Actually Cleveland + needs to fight the census.    :evil:

 

Even if the new population count is a small increase, I think the perceived affect will be a moral boost to the entire region.

 

Ignoring the Federal dollars (is a capitated rate or banded rate?) I don't see a "moral boost".

 

Yay, way to go Cleveland (or any other city that challenged), you only suck half as bad as previously thought! (except for cincinnati which posted like a 48 person population increase)

[MyTwoSense]

Actually Cleveland + needs to fight the census.    :evil:

 

Even if the new population count is a small increase, I think the perceived affect will be a moral boost to the entire region.

 

Ignoring the Federal dollars (is a capitated rate or banded rate?) I don't see a "moral boost".

 

Yay, way to go Cleveland (or any other city that challenged), you only suck half as bad as previously thought! (except for cincinnati which posted like a 48 person population increase)

 

I do.  It could potential stop the "people are leaving cleveland and our region" chatter.  Especially if its spun right.

 

Which goes back to one of my pet peeves about the region - no true strategic marketing plan. 

[the pope]

and you act like the PD will write a positive article about this?

 

(under the idea that the only reason people get doom and gloom is because the PD writes its annual doom and gloom article based on census estimates)

[MyTwoSense]

and you act like the PD will write a positive article about this?

 

(under the idea that the only reason people get doom and gloom is because the PD writes its annual doom and gloom article based on census estimates)

 

No but there are other media outlets and urbanohio!

[the pope]

i know you are being slightly facetious, but we obviously don't have the same reach as the PD (duh!).

 

But those who read this forum know that cleveland ain't the downward spiraling shithole that sometimes the PD makes it out to be.

 

Instead its Joe Medina and Susy Solon who do read the PD and aside from the occasional tribe game, that's the source of their exposure and news about cleveland.

[MyTwoSense]

i know you are being slightly facetious, but we obviously don't have the same reach as the PD (duh!).

 

But those who read this forum know that cleveland ain't the downward spiraling shithole that sometimes the PD makes it out to be.

 

Instead its Joe Medina and Susy Solon who do read the PD and aside from the occasional tribe game, that's the source of their exposure and news about cleveland.

 

Yes but in all seriousness, if the (local) pr strategy was at work, the PD wouldn't be printing one sided "doom and gloom" stories.  That why I stated there are other media outlets and the internet to get the point accross to NE ohioians.

[Mov2Ohio]

No new info, but interesting info and projections.

 

It looks better at the link: http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_research05d5_sup

 

 

Metro Area Factsheet: Cleveland-Akron, Ohio CMSA

 

 

 

Summary Metro Area Data (and Source)

Population (2005 CB est.): 2,931,775

Population (2000 Census): 2,945,831

Foreign-born Population (2005 FAIR est.): 152,025

 

Foreign-born Population (2000 Census): 135,397

 

Share Foreign Born (2005 FAIR est.): 5.2%

 

Share Foreign Born (2000 Census): 4.6%

 

Immigrant Stock (2000 CPS): 334,000

 

Share Immigrant Stock (2000 est.): 10.8%

 

Immigrant Settlement 1991-98 (INS): 27,518

 

Population Projection 2025 (FAIR): 3,172,000

 

 

MUCH MORE AT:

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_research05d5_sup

[the pope]

we still call it the soviet union?

 

what is it, 1986 in here?

[Mov2Ohio]

Not that it matters, but I was wondering how Cincinnati caught up with Cleveland so fast in MSA population when in 2000 Cleveland was at 2,250,000 and Cincinnati was at 1,9XX,000. I found out Ashtabula county and its 110,000 residents were taken out of Cleveland's MSA, which reduced us to the current 2,114,000, ten thousand above Cincinnati. Damn commute patterns.