Jump to content
Guest KJP

Restarting Passenger Rail In Ohio's 3C Corridor

Recommended Posts

Nice to know Ohio's $$$$ are finding good homes.....you're welcome Senator Durbin.

 

http://durbin.senate.gov/showRelease.cfm?releaseId=328933

 

Durbin Announces $42.3 Million in Additional High Speed Rail Funding for Illinois

 

Thursday, December 9, 2010

 

Funding rejected by Ohio and Wisconsin will improve Chicago to St. Louis route

 

[WASHINGTON, D.C.] – U.S. Senator Dick Durbin (D-IL) today announced that Illinois will receive $42.3 million in additional high speed rail funding to finance track and other improvements on the Chicago to St. Louis corridor. Earlier today the Secretary of the Department of Transportation, Ray LaHood, reprogrammed a total of $1.2 billion in funding that was rejected by the incoming governors of Ohio and Wisconsin.

 

“Illinois will be able to use this funding to break ground on projects that were included in the state’s application for high speed rail along the Chicago to St. Louis corridor, but not funded earlier this year,” said Durbin. “Improvements to the route will decrease travel times even further and create jobs that our state badly needs.”

 

Durbin, a member of the Senate Transportation Appropriations Subcommittee, announced in January that more than $1.2 billion in federal high speed rail funding was allocated for the Chicago to St. Louis corridor. Durbin has worked closely with Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, Illinois Governor Pat Quinn, Chicago Mayor Richard Daley, Federal Railroad Administrator Joe Szabo, Amtrak Board Chairman Tom Carper, Members of the Illinois Congressional Delegation and others to make high speed rail a reality in Illinois.

 

In October, Durbin and Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) announced that $230 million in federal funding was awarded for a new Amtrak route between Chicago and Iowa City through the Quad Cities. The project – scheduled for completion in 2015 – will create 588 jobs per year for the first four years of design and construction. Once initiated, the new service is expected to increase business activity at $25 million per year. Durbin also supports the State of Illinois’ plan to extend Amtrak service from Chicago to Rockford and the Quad Cities.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maine, Vt. to get more rail project funding

The Associated Press

 

 

MONTPELIER, Vt. — Passenger rail projects in Maine and Vermont are going to be getting another financial boost from the federal government.

 

The U.S. Department of Transportation has $1.2 billion in stimulus funding that had been intended for high-speed rail projects in Wisconsin and Ohio. But those states don't want to move forward with the projects.

 

Read more at: http://www.pressherald.com/news/Maine-Vt-to-get-more-rail-project-funding-.html

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lumps of coal for the 3C and sugarplums for the golden states as jobs and commerce set for high-speed departure from Ohio

 

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE – Thursday, December 9, 2010

CONTACT:  Jack Shaner, Ohio Environmental Council Jack@theOEC.org (614) 446-1693

 

Reaction of OEC Deputy Director Jack Shaner to today’s announcement by the Federal Railroad Administration that it plans to redirect Ohio’s $400 million award to other states, in keeping with Ohio Governor-Elect John Kasich’s vow to kill the 3C train:

 

“Tonight, a lonely train whistle will sound across Ohio, signaling the high-speed departure of jobs and development and other valuable cargo, outbound to enrich other states.

 

“The anti-public transportation crowd can sleep tight tonight, smug and secure that the 3C line may continue to carry only lumps of coal and freight for the foreseeable future while other states’ transportation stockings get stuffed with millions of dollars of investment.

 

“The Buckeyes may rule the gridiron, but the Buckeye State just fumbled away a $400 million investment opportunity.  Commerce, convenient travel, and energy conservation –that’s the real 3Cs that Ohio turned over today.

 

“There may yet be one last glimmer of hope.  The Dayton Daily News reported today (http://bit.ly/em8xpo) about a possible effort by private investors and local governments to fund and operate the 3C train.  Such locally-led, public-private partnerships exist in California and Minnesota.

 

“For that to happen, Ohio needs to complete the engineering studies on the 3C.  This will give definitive, detailed information about speed, ridership, revenue and costs and benefits.  That, in turn, will better enable local governments and prospective private investors to make well-informed decisions about whether and how to move forward.

 

”We urge all involved to give this one last chance a try.”

 

 

Jack Shaner

Deputy Director and Senior Director of Legislative and Public Affairs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I'm listening to NPR this am, and who do I hear, but our own regional rail expert! Nice interview with our own KJP on NPR this morning. (he's on about 2 minutes in)

 

Federal Government Pulls Rail Service Money

 

The federal government is pulling the millions of dollars it has given Ohio to establish passenger rail service here because it's clear incoming Republican Governor John Kasich won't support the plan. The feds say the money that's been set aside for Ohio will now go to other states. But one group that's been pushing for the train says it's not taking "no" for an answer, yet. Ohio Public Radio's Jo Ingles reports.

 

 

 

http://www.wcpn.org/WCPN/news/37348

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And Ohio makes the New York Times....for all the wrong reasons...

 

More U.S. Rail Funds for 13 States as 2 Reject Aid

By MICHAEL COOPER

 

Ohio and Wisconsin’s loss of $1.2 billion in federal stimulus money for rail projects will be California, Florida and 11 other states’ gain.

 

Ohio and Wisconsin sought and won the stimulus money this year to build new rail lines to create jobs, ease traffic and help the environment. But both states elected new Republican governors last month who vowed to kill the train projects, arguing that they were boondoggles that would require annual state subsidies to operate.

 

Now both states, which have been hit hard by the economic downturn, are losing the money. The federal Department of Transportation announced Thursday that it was rescinding the $810 million that had been awarded to Wisconsin to build a train line from Milwaukee to Madison, and the $385 million that was awarded to Ohio to build a train line linking Cincinnati, Columbus and Cleveland.

 

Full story at: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/us/10rail.html?_r=1&ref=us

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest Column in the Plain Dealer from Gov. Strickland.... good points, but (again) why didn't he stand up this stongly during a tight campaign race when he had the chance to win it?

 

Ohio's outgoing governor defends high-speed rail: Ted Strickland

Published: Friday, December 10, 2010, 7:00 AM

Plain Dealer guest columnist

 

By Ted Strickland

 

Columbus -- Ohio fought hard against other states to win this $400 million award in order to create jobs and economic opportunity in our state. Because so much incomplete and inaccurate information has developed around this project, it's important to separate myths from facts:

 

Myth No. 1: The Ohio trains would run at 39 mph.

 

Fact: The 3C&D "Quick Start" would be a 79 mph train. In fact, the train would run at 79 mph for 70 percent of a trip from Cleveland to Cincinnati. This 79-mph system would provide the foundation for a higher-speed system, allowing speeds to be increased incrementally, over time, as has been done in other states. Top speeds initially will be limited to 79 mph, but speeds could be increased to up to 90 mph for much of the trip between Cleveland and Columbus, based on Ohio's memorandum of understanding with CSX.

 

 

Full column at: http://blog.cleveland.com/opinion_impact/print.html?entry=/2010/12/ohios_outgoing_governor_defend.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Martin Gottlieb: 3C salvage effort can’t save Ohio from itself

By the Dayton Daily News | Thursday, December 9, 2010, 06:16 PM

 

The most recent efforts to save the 3C passenger train always had certain aspects of a Hail Mary pass. That’s the football maneuver whereby a team that needs a touchdown in the last few seconds of a game tries a pass that’s so long the chances for success are minimal.

 

And yet, the pass metaphor isn’t quite right. The 3C salvage effort wasn’t really one long pass. It was a bunch of small efforts, each of which had to work out. And each — standing alone — seemed more or less doable.

 

The problem at hand was, of course, that Gov.-elect John Kasich

 

Full column at: http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/opinion/entries/2010/12/09/martin_gottlieb_3c_salvage_eff.html?cxtype=feedbot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The whole scenario makes me want to support what little rail we DO have even more, even if I have to stand out in freexzing weather waitj ng for Amtrak at 3:00 AM.

 

 

Still, all the propaganda surrounding this is saying all is a dead deal for Ohio. HOW, when he is not technically even Governor yet, can this happen soooo quickly, after how long it has taken to build this campaign and all surrounding it? It seems really odd that since and while other states are salivating at the chance to get this money, we suddenly see a myriad of articles and press releases saying that they will get it. Is there no time for appeal? Discussion, etc? It all seems odd and shady. It seems that All Aboard Ohio has indicated that its not over 'til its over...and we still see the press we are seeing....and the article above, appears just now? What in the HELL is going on?

 

 

Yes, I see it now...while other states develop rail and move forward environmentally, socially, and economically..... and oil prices increase, Ohio markets and people are bypassed leaving the state in a downward decline. That thought is sickening. For goodness sakes, there was more of a media covered and noticeable effort in Cleveland, for example, to keep LeBron James here and build a casino. The priorities really seem mixed up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed....and add to that...so should the media we lack, had done. But the next question is where do we go from here? Its all certainly worth fighting for.

 

Push for the formation of a 3C Joint Powers Authority which can be created by each participating entity passing interlocal agreements (MOUs). These can be municipalities, counties, transit authorities, port authorities, etc.

 

http://freepdfhosting.com/bd173f3a6e.pdf

 

For examples of other JPAs, check out:

 

www.capitolcorridor.org/

www.northernlightsexpress.org/

 

The first priority of the JPA is to keep the $14.9 million USDOT preliminary engineering grant here in Ohio and in force for Ohio's 3C Corridor.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good start. So frustrating.....Maybe when the Iraqi Dinar re-evaluates there will be enough money in the global economy to stimulate a private development of this here and right a lot of wrongs. A friend of mine who is really familiar with this seems to think so. I am in no way in a knowledgeable position to explain it as he could though, but what he said really made sense, or so I'd like to believe. Its obvious we have no leadership, well informed minds or vision on this initiative from a Governor position. Just grasping at straws here. I have little clue about this currency thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it is really so much of an Ohio thing...although this certainly makes it look like it. I was indicating just that in several earlier posts when I was fuming..... Rather, I have gotten the feeling that a big part of this is a media that greatly under-provides the facts to the public.

 

Its loyalty is to those who pay their bills/sponsors...and NOT to properly informing the public at large. We live in a political environment where some chose to alter the facts to fit their opinions, rather than alter their opinions to fit the facts. "Fair and Balanced" does not mean factual and accurate. But this is the norm for the mainstream media country-wide, though.

 

If we had a truly "liberal media" as often as people like Rush spew we do, you'd be seeing this Kasich kills rail thing on expose shows and prints continuously, hammering him with hard core questions and demanding accountability, exposing the facts from fictions.

 

When you don't have the right information disseminated, you get a poorly informed public at large. It leaves one's self to seek it out.... as it surely isn't coming to them from the boob tube media. Naturally, this is just my opinion!  :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

necron99 December 10, 2010 at 1:41PM

 

All we have to do is sell 3 F-22's to Japan and we are good to go.

 

LOL

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Memo to: Governor-elect Kasich

Subject: Killing the 3C Project

 

Don't look now, but the sound you'll soon be hearing is more $$$ being sucked from the wallets of Ohioans at the gasoline pumps, and when you take the oath of office in January, what answer will you have for them about why you cancelled the 3C passenger rail project and pretty much doomed any future transportation options?

 

Don't believe it?  Read this excerpt from today's USA Today...

 

"A move through $90 a barrel seems very likely, and

then we could quickly test $100," says Telvent DTN

senior energy analyst Darin Newsom. "You could

easily see a 15- to 20-cent rise (in gas prices) the

next three weeks, if not sooner."

 

Consumers are unlikely to get a break anytime soon.

"I don't see anything that's going to turn this puppy

around and send it south," says Cameron Hanover

industry analyst Peter Beutel. "For the next two to 12

weeks, the forecast is higher prices."

 

Gas prices on track for unseasonable spike

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2010-12-10-1Agasprices10_ST_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3C won't be the busiest travel corridor between Midwest metro areas much longer, and the state's economy will suffer greatly for it.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

  Earlier in this thread I posted a comment about the emphasis on job creation rather than mobility, environmental benefits, or other reasons to build the 3-C.

 

    What did the press release say?

 

  "Ohio’s Rail Funds will be Given to

California, Florida, Others to Create Jobs"

 

    The real purpose of public projects is not necessarily to provide some public benefit, but to transfer wealth from one group to another.

 

    This forum, having a lot of urban planner types, tends to focus on the technical aspects of the project, when the motivations of the politicians on both sides are clearly political.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 3C had absolutely nothing to do with a purported "transfer of wealth".  Can we leave that talking point out of just this debate, if nothing else.  Next thing we know, someone will manufacture a strawman argument tying states rights into this discussion.  Or muslims.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

  Ah, but look at Kasich's next move. The media is reporting that he is going after the state's prevailing wage law. That is ALL ABOUT transfer of wealth, and furthermore, the 3-C would have been subject to Ohio's prevailing wage law.

 

    It is obvious that the 3-C is not just about transportation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it is really so much of an Ohio thing...although this certainly makes it look like it. I was indicating just that in several earlier posts when I was fuming..... Rather, I have gotten the feeling that a big part of this is a media that greatly under-provides the facts to the public.

 

Its loyalty is to those who pay their bills/sponsors...and NOT to properly informing the public at large. We live in a political environment where some chose to alter the facts to fit their opinions, rather than alter their opinions to fit the facts. "Fair and Balanced" does not mean factual and accurate. But this is the norm for the mainstream media country-wide, though.

 

If we had a truly "liberal media" as often as people like Rush spew we do, you'd be seeing this Kasich kills rail thing on expose shows and prints continuously, hammering him with hard core questions and demanding accountability, exposing the facts from fictions.

 

When you don't have the right information disseminated, you get a poorly informed public at large. It leaves one's self to seek it out.... as it surely isn't coming to them from the boob tube media. Naturally, this is just my opinion! :wink:

 

Agree on all points!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hts121 +1.

 

"Transfers of wealth" would be just taking the $400 million, giving it to the engineering firms, construction firms, municipalities, etc. who would be responsible for bringing the project to fruition and then not expecting them to build the rail line in return.  "Transfers" is generally used as a sanitized term for redistributionist/welfare programs.  The 3C is/was not a wealth transfer program.  You could be a billion-dollar engineering firm and compete for the construction contracts for it.  Once it was completed, you could be a millionaire and ride it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^The 3-C is less blatant than other wealth transfer programs, but it will still transfer wealth from one group to another.

 

Even if the design and construction contracts are competitively bid, it will result in a trasfer of wealth from taxpayers to the construction industry.

 

There could be a net positive or net negative benefit from this. If there is a net benefit, then the decision to build the 3-C could be said to be a good one. If there is not a net benefit, i.e. the construction industry makes a profit but no one rides it because it is too slow, then the decision could be said to be a bad one.

 

    As a contractor, the decision is swayed by who you are and what you specialize in. Most contractors would rather be a millionaire first and ride the train second. Since most contractors at present are set up to build highways, not railroads, most contractors will favor building more highways instead of rail, because it increases their chances of becoming a millionaire. (If you just spent a million dollars on a paving machine, you would prefer that your next job is a highway job, so you don't have to put the paving machine in the garage and spend another million on a cross-tie laying machine.)

 

    Thus, the highway lobby is going to lend it's support to more highways, and the rail lobby to rail. Since there a lot more highway contractors than rail contractors, (and they vote, in addition to providing other support) the highway has the advantage.

 

    Now, a balanced transportation system is better than one that favors highways exclusively. I know that, and you know that. Most of the forumers on this board know that. But the highway lobby doesn't know that, or if they do, they support highways for another reason, namely, that they just invested a million dollars in that paving machine.

 

    What is good for one is not necessarily good for all.

 

   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The bottom line for me is, the 7th most populous state in the country will not be well be connected to a national high speed rail system. 

 

The state capitol, which is fast growing and has one of the largest universities in the US will not be connected to a national rail system.

 

A state that trends to an aging population will not be well connected to a national high speed rail system.  This irks me the most.  What an FU to all the aging tax paying Ohioans that don't have access to alternate forms of mobility.  They should all take their money and move to Florida!  Ohio doesn't care about them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^I think it's more the me, me, me boomers that voted for the guy...I am talking older over 70.  Most I have met still feel they have a duty to pay for things that make the country better for the next generation.  My 80 year old father has never voted down a tax levy for schools in his town...despite having sent 6 kids to private schools. 

 

They usually aren't "liberals" per se, but they lived through a massive expansion of infrastructure improvements in this country and understand the greater good IMO. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And Kasich's response to losing the 3C project is....?  Amazing that nothing has come from him on this yet. 

 

 

Not amazing at all.  He doesn't give a damn.  He puts on this big show quote about being "disappointed" that the $$$ can't be spent on freight rail, when the reality was that better than half the $400-million would have greatly improved a 260 mile freight rail corridor.

 

Kasich wants one trhing only....that the 3C and any other passenger rail plan should just go away. He has been that way ever since he was a Congressman and there is no reason or evidence to suggest he has changed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who wants to join my train cult? We'll meet at various former sites of abandoned railroad stations in Ohio on full-moon nights, build a smoky fire with cotton waste soaked with a mixture of diesel fuel and journal oil, and sit around it and recite incantations to the train gods and sing train songs, and then we'll offer up a Republican as a sacrifice by tying him to the tracks just before the Lakeshore comes through, although there's often not much chance of figuring out what time that might be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never viewed 3C as a vital cog to a national system.  It was more about intra-state travel.  If a HSR line is going to be built between NYC and Chicago, I anticipate it will have to stops in Cleveland and Toledo.  It wouldn't make much sense for it not to.  I actually thought the 3C would've possibly moved that stop to CBus..... even if it took the line slightly off the path the crow flies.  Therefore, I am not too woried about Ohio being completely bypassed in any NATIONAL HSR system, but I can see CBus being completely passed over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The strongest contender for the NYC - Chicago HSR route at this point is Cleveland - Toledo - Fort Wayne. I believe Indiana is to get about $350K of the reallocated funds that were to go to Ohio and Wisconsin, and I hope that it will go toward whatever engineering and environmental work is needed to advance that project. The proposed route east of Fort Wayne exists mainy as ROW and the roadbed would have to be built from scratch, and westward from Fort Wayne the former PRR mainline is now owned by CSX, leased by Rail America, and operated by their wholly-owned subsidiary, Chicago Fort Wayne & Eastern. It has been low-speed single track without signals for quite a few years.

 

Now, back on topic!

 

3-C is important as an alternative to short-distance business air travel that clogs air terminals and air traffic control systems. It's also an important element in building passenger-train awareness in a population that either has never experienced it or whose memories consist of the desultory and grudging service levels provided by most eastern railroads in the years leading up to Amtrak. Awareness is a building block toward popular support for building an expanded network, including routes like Columbus - Lima - Fort Wayne - Chicago or Pittsburgh - Columbus - Dayton - Indianapolis - St. Louis. Ohio and Indiana both have local passenger rail service that exists only as incidental to long-distance trains between Chicago and east-coast cities, and uninformed, unaware taxpayers/voters can effectively obstruct efforts to build a larger network in the eastern US.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The strongest contender for the NYC - Chicago HSR route at this point is Cleveland - Toledo - Fort Wayne. I believe Indiana is to get about $350K of the reallocated funds that were to go to Ohio and Wisconsin, and I hope that it will go toward whatever engineering and environmental work is needed to advance that project.

 

I'm not sure what Indiana's $350,000 is for, but it isn't for preliminary engineering work. Considering the length of the CTC Corridor and extent of investment likely, the PE work will likely cost tens of millions.

 

Which is why it's so important to keep the 3C's $14.9 million in federal funds here so the PE can be finished and a construction grant submitted at it conclusion. If we let the PE go away, it will cost the project's sponsor (either a JPA or a post-Kasich ODOT) about $3 million in matching funds to get it back.

 

Save the $3 million. Keep the PE money here in Ohio.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In this economy, Ohio can't afford to turn its back on rail jobs

Saturday, December 11, 2010  02:56 AM

Columbus Dispatch Letter to the Editor

 

In his Nov. 27 letter “Passenger-rail money could be put to better use elsewhere,” state Sen. Tom Patton, R-Strongsville, called for sending federal passenger-rail money away. However, the real mistaken priorities are those of the incoming administration and Patton, which will throw away thousands of jobs in the middle of the Great Recession.

 

This action will affect Ohio’s competitiveness, accelerating the exodus of young people to states where real transportation choices exist. Opponents of the trains are misguided, since rail service will be a job-creating economic-development engine, focusing needed development in urban areas, while enhancing mobility for Ohioans.

 

Gov.-elect John Kasich has a philosophical problem with passenger trains, calling them a crazy idea. Patton, a protector of the highway lobby, browbeat those who testified in favor of the trains during 2009 Ohio Department of Transportation budget hearings.

 

Full letter at: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2010/12/11/in-this-economy-ohio-cant-afford-to-turn-its-back-on-rail-jobs.html?sid=101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

    I still think there's a bigger issue at work over Kasich's moves, and that is distribution of power. Whether the 3-C is a good idea for Ohio or not is secondary to whether or not Ohio should let some federal agency determine what goes on in Ohio.

 

    Kasich is saying "We don't want some bureaucrat in Washington telling us how to spend our money."

 

    Now, the trouble is, that once money leaves Ohio in the form of federal taxes, Ohio really doesn't have any say in how it is spent, so the $400 million wasn't Ohio's money anyway. But how can Ohio keep more money under local control by reducing federal taxes if Ohio participates in feeding on the federal treasury? In my humble opinion, this is a political move on the part of Kasich for state's rights as much or more than it is about transportation. I don't think he's as stupid as he is made out to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And Ohio makes the New York Times....for all the wrong reasons...

 

More U.S. Rail Funds for 13 States as 2 Reject Aid

By MICHAEL COOPER

 

Ohio and Wisconsin’s loss of $1.2 billion in federal stimulus money for rail projects will be California, Florida and 11 other states’ gain.

 

Ohio and Wisconsin sought and won the stimulus money this year to build new rail lines to create jobs, ease traffic and help the environment. But both states elected new Republican governors last month who vowed to kill the train projects, arguing that they were boondoggles that would require annual state subsidies to operate.

 

Now both states, which have been hit hard by the economic downturn, are losing the money. The federal Department of Transportation announced Thursday that it was rescinding the $810 million that had been awarded to Wisconsin to build a train line from Milwaukee to Madison, and the $385 million that was awarded to Ohio to build a train line linking Cincinnati, Columbus and Cleveland.

 

Full story at: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/us/10rail.html?_r=1&ref=us

I admit I haven't really been following this ongoing controversy that much since I no longer live in Ohio, but I read the Times story yesterday and the paragraph below jumped out at me. If these aren't really high-speed trains, how attractive would this whole operation have been anyway? (no need for anyone to answer if this has already been addressed or if the question is too uninformed on my part, but I was just wondering...)

 

re Ohio and Wisconsin: "Neither state would have gotten true high-speed trains; their incoming governors said the proposed trains would have been too slow to attract many passengers. But most of their money is being redistributed to bullet-train projects."

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Crazy how an elect who has not signed a legal document can cause such chaos. Boo hoo to the Feds for not even lettiing it play out. So these other states didn't have to re submit new proposals to receive this new money??? Something sounds illegal here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And Kasich's response to losing the 3C project is....?  Amazing that nothing has come from him on this yet. 

 

 

Not amazing at all.  He doesn't give a damn.  He puts on this big show quote about being "disappointed" that the $$$ can't be spent on freight rail, when the reality was that better than half the $400-million would have greatly improved a 260 mile freight rail corridor.

 

Kasich wants one trhing only....that the 3C and any other passenger rail plan should just go away. He has been that way ever since he was a Congressman and there is no reason or evidence to suggest he has changed.

 

Not to get off topic, but I think the following story points up Kasich's attitude toward passenger trains. He really seems to have a phobia about them that affects his objectivity.

 

Anyhow, the story comes from when he was a congressman. When Kasich was in Washington, a group of legislators chartered a train to take them to the Greenbrier Hotel in White Sulphur Springs, Kasich stubbornly refused to ride and DROVE to the retreat instead.

 

This is what we are up against. :?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rejection of the trains is a symptom of a larger issue and that is the fact that the state government is dominated by rural and outer suburb Republicans, who are not interested in doing anything to improve the lot of those in core areas or inner ring suburbs, because those people tend to vote Democratic.

 

Those of us who are from urban areas and support bettering them will have to come to the realization that the state of Ohio is unlikely do much of anything on issues concerning core cities or inner ring suburbs. I think it's time to start finding alternatives. The state legislature is dominated by rural and outer ring suburb types who are represented by Republicans who get a lot of their campaign contributions for the highway contractors. The two go hand in hand.

 

In short, depsite the fact that 80% of Ohioans live in urban areas, we are being left out at the state level. I think it's time for us to look at alternatives which will circumvent the state government to find solutions to our issues and problems.

 

We do have a few aces to play. Most local city governments, MPO's and other organizations are dominated by Democrats and no amount of Republican redistricting at the state level will easily change that. What we have to do is start finding ways for these urban entites to work together on a common agenda.

 

Forming a Joint Powers Authority to oversee the development of intercity rail passenger service, regional and feeder bus routes and urban transit is a good way to tie these urban areas together. The formation of a bloc such as this will also create an alternative to rural and highway dominated state government.

 

The ultimate goal would be to reform the state government and by joining urban interests into a cohesive group with an agenda will push the balance of power in our favor over time.

 

I think we have to take a good look at this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, this particular idea (and for good reasons) only exacerbated the ability to cast it as city vs. suburb/rural areas. Rural and exurban Ohio are the most car-dependent areas and this wouldn't have done anything for them. Unfortunately, to build a transit system that helps them has never been particularly cost-effective anywhere (including Europe - though they more or less make it work - my sense is that those parts of the European system are the least liked by locals - reliability and the like). Interurbans my lonely heart dreams of you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Urban Ohioans aren't being "left out"; they opted out. Too few actually care about matters like these and let rural and suburban conservatives drag this state down, and with it, our cities. Many urban residents are very suburban/rural in their day-to-day lifestyle when it comes to transportation (car-dependent) and they don't vote on top of that. As a result, there will be virtually no large-scale progress on the transportation front in our cities and state. Where it is occurring it is a rarity, such as Cincinnati's streetcar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^

While there some good points in the previous two posts, I think we have to find ways to change. Otherwise, we will be letting others determine what sort of environment we live in.

 

As I see it, we have three choices:

 

a) Continue as we have - the results speak for themselves - is this what we

    want?

b) Leave Ohio - as many already are doing - better lifestyles elsewhere?

c) Try to do something to better our urban areas - Is it worth it?

 

I'm tempted to go for option b), but I really would like to see us try option c). I think Ohio's urban areas offer a lot...if issues are properly addressed. Maybe some---or a lot---of people don't care, but I think it behooves us to see who really DOES care.

 

Just imagine what could happen if this approach works. Think about that.

 

NOTE TO MODERATOR GODS: I realize this discussion should be in another thread. If you have a better place for this, please make the change or create a new thread altogether.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ I agree. I grew up in Ohio and never imagined myself leaving until I travelled to some other places that felt more comfortable.

 

However, I feel like a different approach might do better. The 3-C rail has been proposed and rejected many times over the last 30 years, as KJP detailed earlier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who wants to join my train cult? We'll meet at various former sites of abandoned railroad stations in Ohio on full-moon nights, build a smoky fire with cotton waste soaked with a mixture of diesel fuel and journal oil, and sit around it and recite incantations to the train gods and sing train songs, and then we'll offer up a Republican as a sacrifice by tying him to the tracks just before the Lakeshore comes through, although there's often not much chance of figuring out what time that might be.

 

I was infuriated when Kasich used that word to describe us... I almost wrote a letter demanding a personal apology. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's the alternative though?  I think maybe a Cincinnati-Dayton line might be doable because of the many established rail corridors and relatively short distance, but that's it.  The Cincinnati streetcar is an example of how scaling back and focusing locally can work better after the broad-reaching (and thus slave to suburban interests) Metro Moves plan died.  Still, I don't see how you can do the same for a long-distance passenger rail plan since it still has to go through the suburban and rural areas where there's no support.  The fact that those places may not care isn't so much of a factor, but that the cities that are being served (even being tax exporters) can't really afford to do such a project themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Think of it this way: A rail line like 3C leapfrogs the 'burbs (for the most part) and runs from urban center to center, tying all the local transit systems together at their strongest points. The corridor is a unifying thread for all the urban areas on the route and you don't have to kowtow to exurban interests to do this. The train may pass thru these areas, but that doesn't mean anything, since no support is being asked of them.

 

As to funding, a public-private partnership might be the best way to go (KJP is working on this). A developer could seek TIF districts at each stop and use that to help pay the cost of building and operating the system. Federal and other funds could be leveraged as well. A joint power authority could be formed to oversee this and the trains could be operated by a third party, such as Amtrak.

 

This approach could bypass state opposition entirely.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

now we're talkin!  I think there is potential for a major naming rights sponsorship of the line, something that could elevate the project from a political punchline to the envy of other states'.  Like a virgin or a google or something hip like that.  just an idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which raises the possibility of a really heavy hitter like Sir Richard Branson becoming involved, as well as major developers. Every major city has a LOT of vacant, underused land or surface lots that are prime redevelopment possibilties. The possibilities are endless, especially if gas prices go up. Under those circumstances, you sure aren't going to do any more sprawl development. You're going to concentrate in cities. Branson is already aware of the energy issue and made public statements about it. He and others should be approached.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...