Jump to content
Guest KJP

Restarting Passenger Rail In Ohio's 3C Corridor

Recommended Posts

Kasich has the same me-first attitude that caused all those suburban jackasses last night to gridlock intersections.  If he wasn't going to use the train, nobody was going to.  I am about as fed up with this guy as I have been with any politician, and he hasn't even started office.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Kasich will find out that there was really no upside to his decision on the 3-c.  His ignorant supporters who thought that the money would be used for something else will be deeply disappointed that that plan did not work out.  I don't think many of them honestly believed that we would lose $400 million so this might bring Kasich some backlash in his own party.  He decided to make a stand on an the 3-c without knowing or caring about the facts and now he will actually have to face the reality of it.  Having to give $400 million back to the Feds before you take office is not a very good start.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's worse than Horseface (Taft), and that's saying something.


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The front page of cleveland.com has a painfully ironic juxtaposition of stories right now, with the "Upset by your commute?" piece right next to "Feds to Ohio: Your high-speed rail project is officially dead." 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How will his supporters try and defend this one? What gloss over rationale will we see? It seems to me they're more interested in "being right" than actually doing what is right. You just handed over $400 million handed to you on a silver platter to other states! Retarded. I am truly beginning to think there is something mentally wrong with this guy. I have a guest here from Australia who has been following this and she finds this utterly jaw dropping insane!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^The 3-C thread invariably drifts into a rail vs highway argument because the proposed 3-C is in direct competition with Ohio's highways, not just for ridership but for funding as well.

 

That is not entirely accurate.  The Ohio Constitution prohibits any gasoline tax revenues being spent on anything other than the building and maintaining of highways.  So there is no competition for state dollars.

 

That is not entirely accurate either.  The gasoline tax revenue has been insufficient to cover the cost to build and maintain Ohio's roadways for some time, so the highway fund has been supplemented with general fund revenue.  There is a lot of competition for those dollars (and not all of that competition comes from other forms of transportation).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How will his supporters try and defend this one? What gloss over rationale will we see? It seems to me they're more interested in "being right" than actually doing what is right. You just handed $400 million handed to you on a silver platter to other states! Retarded. I am truly beginning to think their is something mentally wrong with this guy. I have a guest here from Australia who has been following this and she finds this utterly jaw dropping insane!

 

It won't be complicated.  It will be "we didn't want to waste any money on the train no one would use".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EC, I think SHS96 was just telling you what Kasich and his minions will say.  We all know the truth about this project, but they refuse to even attempt to understand.

 

What angers we the most about seeing us be so backwards is that there are so many other things I love about Ohio.  If I didn't, I'd be out of here in a heartbeat.  This decision is just awful.

 

ColDayMan, you're right that Kasich is looking to be worse than Taft, which does say something.  What says something even more, though, is how much he's doing to get people to hate him before he even takes office.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ I know, I was just reacting rhetorically. You are right. I love so many things about Ohio as well.....naturally, culturally, etc.. But this decision is a real nightmare. It seems despite the valid information available to skeptics, they have either not had the proper information delivered to them via mainstream sources, or they remain in denial and are too stubborn to see the forest through the trees. I also fear that the runaway road addiction in this state will eventually lead to destroying the many things I love about it in the first place.  :-( This could begin a whole new discussion too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not like this will make a difference now, but it still felt good sending it to Mr. K and Beth Hansen

 

 

"Dear Governor Kasich,

 

 

For shame.  Based on today's decision by the Federal Government and Mr. Lahood's announcement, I am now considering long-term options for moving my company out of the state.  Your needlessly killing this rail project isn't the only reason, but it certainly indicates the direction of Ohio during your tenure, and that is not one I care to partake."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All Aboard Ohio: USDOT plan to send 3C rail funding to other states is premature

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE — December 9, 2010

 

Contact:

Ken Prendergast

All Aboard Ohio Executive Director

(216) 288-4883

kenprendergast@allaboardohio.org

 

All Aboard Ohio, a statewide nonprofit association, today said the U.S. Department of Transportation’s is moving prematurely to redirect up to $400 million in no-match federal funds from the Ohio Department of Transportation. ODOT was awarded the funds for the development of an introductory level of passenger rail service linking Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati – the Midwest’s busiest travel corridor between metropolitan areas.

 

“Until grant agreements with the new state recipients have been signed, we don’t consider this a done deal,” said All Aboard Ohio President Bill Hutchison. He noted that it often takes months for such agreements to be finalized. “Indeed, $385.1 million of the funding awarded to Ohio was not yet under agreement and was free to being reallocated by the USDOT. The other $14.9 million for 3C preliminary engineering is under a grant agreement with ODOT and cannot simply be taken away.”

 

USDOT made the announcement today with more than one month left in Gov. Ted Strickland’s term. The USDOT acted because, in its written words, “incoming Governors in Wisconsin and Ohio have both indicated that they will not move forward to use high-speed rail money.”

 

“The USDOT acted prematurely as all alternatives have not been exhausted,” Hutchison said. “There should be more communication with the Federal Railroad Administration and those of us who are trying to keep 3C moving forward. We are calling for an open, honest dialogue between Gov. Strickland, Gov.-Elect Kasich and potential 3C partners to consider an alternative that could be instituted within the same time frame ODOT was expected to move forward with 3C.”

 

Ironically, today’s announcement came hours after the Dayton Daily News published details of an alternative, proven plan by All Aboard Ohio and others to pursue the 3C project without state involvement. The plan assumes the initial federal investment will remain with the service sustained via local public-private partnerships overseen by a Joint Powers Authority: http://freepdfhosting.com/bd173f3a6e.pdf

 

“The Dayton Daily News article included a quote from Gov.-Elect Kasich’s spokesman which gives All Aboard Ohio hope that we can work with the Kasich team on this concept to keep this huge investment in new jobs and mobility for Ohio,” Hutchison said.

 

“With looming threats of unprecedented global oil shortages by 2015, the Baby Boom generation starting to turn 65 years old in 2011 and young Ohioans leaving for states that don’t force them to drive everywhere, now is not the time for Ohio leaders to let this money slip away,” Hutchison concluded.

 

END


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^ I do find it odd that since other states are salivating at this money...that suddenly, in an instant, press releases say the project is dead. Government has never worked so fast!

 

 

^ And yes, I would think his own party would have to look at this and ask "What the HELL are you doing, man!!!???"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TBideon - you should copy the press on stuff like that. Kasich wouldn't care otherwise--he's obviously a small thinker.

 

KJP--is this the end? is it official--can the "Dayton Plan" still be implemented? There's still about 30 more days of Strickland.

 

UrbanSurfin--you mean recalling his election BEFORE he even takes office?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

KJP--is this the end? is it official--can the "Dayton Plan" still be implemented? There's still about 30 more days of Strickland.

 

 

Why, did someone nuke Ohio? I've been at this 26 years and have seen 3C go down in flames seven times. Admittedly, this is the closest we've gotten to having 3C -- which can be taken as either a negative or a positive. And even this does die -- again -- it will surely come back -- again. But it sure does get frustrating that a state is so unable to help itself join the majority of other civilized places in the world.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lumps of coal for the 3C and sugarplums for the golden states as jobs and commerce set for high-speed departure from Ohio

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE – Thursday, December 9, 2010

CONTACT:  Jack Shaner, Ohio Environmental Council Jack@theOEC.org (614) 446-1693

 

Reaction of OEC Deputy Director Jack Shaner to today’s announcement by the Federal Railroad Administration that it plans to redirect Ohio’s $400 million award to other states, in keeping with Ohio Governor-Elect John Kasich’s vow to kill the 3C train:

 

“Tonight, a lonely train whistle will sound across Ohio, signaling the high-speed departure of jobs and development and other valuable cargo, outbound to enrich other states.

 

“The anti-public transportation crowd can sleep tight tonight, smug and secure that the 3C line may continue to carry only lumps of coal and freight for the foreseeable future while other states’ transportation stockings get stuffed with millions of dollars of investment.

 

“The Buckeyes may rule the gridiron, but the Buckeye State just fumbled away a $400 million investment opportunity.  Commerce, convenient travel, and energy conservation –that’s the real 3Cs that Ohio turned over today.

 

“There may yet be one last glimmer of hope.  The Dayton Daily News reported today (http://bit.ly/em8xpo) about a possible effort by private investors and local governments to fund and operate the 3C train.  Such locally-led, public-private partnerships exist in California and Minnesota.

 

“For that to happen, Ohio needs to complete the engineering studies on the 3C.  This will give definitive, detailed information about speed, ridership, revenue and costs and benefits.  That, in turn, will better enable local governments and prospective private investors to make well-informed decisions about whether and how to move forward.

 

”We urge all involved to give this one last chance a try.”

 

 

Jack Shaner

Deputy Director and Senior Director of Legislative and Public Affairs

Ohio Environmental Council

Desk: 614-487-5822

Cell: 614-446-1693


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

KJP--not the end as in "the end"---i did mean of THIS time around. is the $400m definitely gone, that is, is it done deal that Ohio has lost it or is it what the gov't PLANS to do if strickland doesn't act fast?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not like this will make a difference now, but it still felt good sending it to Mr. K and Beth Hansen

 

 

"Dear Governor Kasich,

 

 

For shame. Based on today's decision by the Federal Government and Mr. Lahood's announcement, I am now considering long-term options for moving my company out of the state. Your needlessly killing this rail project isn't the only reason, but it certainly indicates the direction of Ohio during your tenure, and that is not one I care to partake."

 

Even better is sending it as a LTTE to your local paper.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

KJP--not the end as in "the end"---i did mean of THIS time around. is the $400m definitely gone, that is, is it done deal that Ohio has lost it or is it what the gov't PLANS to do if strickland doesn't act fast?

 

Yeah, I know. I'm just in a feisty mood today for some reason. And no, the $400 million isn't definitely gone for the reasons stated in our All Aboard Ohio press release.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think one thing that gets overlooked is the fact that Columbus acts as a microcosm of the state and the writing was on the wall with the (somewhat) recently rejected the streetcar and light rail previously, it was pretty much a foregone conclusion for where the state as a whole was going with regards to statewide rail. Even Cincy has had to fight tooth and nail for their streetcar line, leaving Cleveland as an anomaly with their rail system. When even your urban residents aren't aboard (that hurt to type), such a major rail project has no chance in hell.

 

I have to say that reading the comments on the loss of the $400 from Rs is hilarious; they talk about how it would have cost $17 million a year (in caps of course). I suppose they're going to get their $1.7 billion worth of a 2+ mile stretch of highway in Downtown Columbus and drive up and down it regularly to show what a wonderfully thought out expense it was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah' date=' I know. I'm just in a feisty mood today for some reason. And no, the $400 million isn't definitely gone for the reasons stated in our All Aboard Ohio press release.[/quote']

 

KJP--I finally found the release ( http://www.dot.gov/affairs/2010/dot20810.html ). I hope you're right. The way its written, it sounds like a done deal (caps and brackets are my edits):

 

--U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood today announced that $1.195 billion in high-speed rail funds originally designated for Wisconsin and Ohio WILL BE [not may be] redirected to other states

 

--The $1.195 billion originally designated for those high-speed rail projects in Wisconsin and Ohio WILL [NOT MAY] now be used to support projects in the following states...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A press release is not a contract, obviously. To underscore that, check out this language from a press release/fact sheet issued less than one year ago:

 

 

Awardees : Ohio Department of Transportation

Total Approximate Funding (entire corridor) : $400,000,000

Benefiting State : Ohio

Miles of Track : New - 250 miles

 

This new corridor connects four major metropolitan areas in Ohio: Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton, and Cincinnati. This significant route, named the “3C Corridor,” has a length of 250 miles and will serve communities near Lake Erie, in Central Ohio, and the Tri-State region around Cincinnati. These metropolitan areas are among the largest in the United States that are currently not served by passenger rail.

 

....This investment will fund a number of projects across the state, including track upgrades, grade crossings, new stations, and maintenance facilities. This project will also include planning for necessary equipment that can support future service improvements.

 

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/fact-sheet-high-speed-intercity-passenger-rail-program-cleveland-columbus


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some media folks have asked me why the USDOT's action was premature. One reason was that we have an alternative plan that has promise. But another one that I underscored is that no sitting Ohio governor has canceled the 3C rail project.

 

Many have been joking that Kasich has been acting like governor for a month. So Obama's USDOT just gave Kasich the power of a governor BEFORE he was sworn in as one.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Obama admin gave the money to the STATE OF OHIO----not Mr. Kasich. So if any Dayton type plan would work its gotta be finalized under Strickland, before Kasich officially represents the state of ohio. that is, unless, Strickland, just gives up, which is how it sounds in this reuters article:

 

"...Ted Strickland, Ohio's outgoing governor, said he was disappointed and said the state could regret the decision. "Today is one of the saddest days during my four years as governor because I see jobs leaving Ohio, I see resources leaving Ohio, I see vital infrastructure leaving Ohio," Strickland, a Democrat, said in a statement..."

 

He's not saying, 'i'm gonna fight this or there is still a way'....he's just saying 'well, its over'....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The frustrating, infuriating part will come when Governors-elect Kasich and Walker successfully spin the whole fiasco to pin the blame on the intransigent federal officials who refused to allow them to repurpose the money. Instead of paying the consequences of their short-sighted pandering, they'll exploit the situation to enhance their standing and further undermine passenger rail advocates, and it will work. It's Karl-Rovian strategy, and it's been eminently effective in the past and likely will continue to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This looks like a tactical move from the Dems.  Either get on board or REALLY lose your funding.  And you don't have too much time to play around anymore, Kasich.

 

There may be some truth to this, but for one thing, I doubt that Kasich is going to have a change of heart (even now knowing that the administration really would call his bluff ... Ohio's status as a presidential battleground state does not mean that the administration will be completely supine vis-a-vis requests from Ohio, particularly from the GOP), and for another, I really do think that that press release politically committed Obama to sending the money to those other states.  Legally, no--as was pointed out, press releases are not contracts.  Nevertheless, they can absolutely form the basis of political commitments (which is why they are more often than not mealy-mouthed and noncommittal).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really do think that that press release politically committed Obama to sending the money to those other states. Legally, no--as was pointed out, press releases are not contracts. Nevertheless, they can absolutely form the basis of political commitments (which is why they are more often than not mealy-mouthed and noncommittal).

 

Agreed, I thought it was political gamesmanship before the actual press releases started flying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"The other $14.9 million for 3C preliminary engineering is under a grant agreement with ODOT and cannot simply be taken away.”

 

So is this study definitely going to be completed or can we assume that Kasich will shut this down before we can see favorable results from it?  When is the estimated completion date for the study?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From a Gov. Strickland press release.......

 

For Immediate Release:                                            Contact: Amanda Wurst

Thursday, December 9, 2010                                       614 644-0957/614 832-7512

                                                                                    Amanda.Wurst@governor.ohio.gov

 

 

Ohios Rail Funds will be Given to

California, Florida, Others to Create Jobs

 

Columbus, OH Ohio Governor Ted Strickland today expressed his deep disappointment that Ohios rail funds will be given to other states as a result of Governor-elect John Kasichs strong opposition to Ohios passenger rail plan. 

 

In a phone conversation today, Secretary LaHood informed the governor that, based on his conversations with Kasich, the bulk of Ohios $400 million will be sent to California and Florida.  Washington State, Illinois and other states are also expected to benefit.

 

Today is one of the saddest days during my four years as governor, Strickland said.  Because I see jobs leaving Ohio, I see resources leaving Ohio, I see vital infrastructure leaving Ohio.  And I see other states being enriched by resources that would otherwise have created thousands of new jobs, revitalized our cities and helped keep our young people in Ohio.  I cant understand the logic of giving up these vital, job-creating resources to California and Florida at a time when so many Ohioans need jobs.

 

Ohio competed against other states and won $400 million based on the strength of Ohios plan to restore passenger rail to the most densely populated corridor in the country without passenger rail, the Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati, or 3C-D, corridor.  Strickland offered to work closely with the U.S. Department of Transportation to wrap up the current passenger rail study currently underway.

 

I fear that history will show that this one, uninformed decision will be looked upon with regret by future generations of Ohioans, Strickland said.

 

--30--

 

With all due respect Governor, perhaps if you had fought harder for your initiative BEFORE the election.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This whole ordeal shows what is wrong with the american political system today.  Obstructionism is used as much as it can be and not getting things done is seen as preferable to anything happening that makes an opponent look good.  I may be biased but I would have to say that most of this is coming from the Republican side although Democrats are guilty to some extent too.  Today's politicians care far more about getting elected than doing anything useful, all common sense is thrown out if it will win them one more vote.  Partisanship is at an all time high and with no compromise nothing is getting done.  Ok, I am done with my rant but I just feel that the Kasich/3-c ordeal is a sign of bigger structural government problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kind of a shame about Ohio; that link between Cincinnati, Columbus, and Cleveland is a natural.

 

Oh, well...Republicans being what they are, of course they would work to make Big Oil happy in the now and so condemn the people of Ohio forevermore.

 

It ain't like oil is a fixed cost...even if it doesn't run out, demand and the speculation of those few whose liquidity benefits from the Republicans' wealth redistribution policy of "flood-up/trickle-down" economics will ensure that the price of commuting between those cities becomes prohibitive.

 

The problem with putting Republicans into office is that the ones who were great businessmen and visionaries? The ones who built things to last?

 

They're all dead; all the Republicans have now are myopic grifters.

via comments section at:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/12/09/105057/california-to-get-high-speed-rail.html#ixzz17g2ddrUJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From a Gov. Strickland press release.......

 

For Immediate Release: Contact: Amanda Wurst

Thursday, December 9, 2010 614 644-0957/614 832-7512

Amanda.Wurst@governor.ohio.gov

 

 

Ohios Rail Funds will be Given to

California, Florida, Others to Create Jobs

 

Columbus, OH Ohio Governor Ted Strickland today expressed his deep disappointment that Ohios rail funds will be given to other states as a result of Governor-elect John Kasichs strong opposition to Ohios passenger rail plan.

 

In a phone conversation today, Secretary LaHood informed the governor that, based on his conversations with Kasich, the bulk of Ohios $400 million will be sent to California and Florida. Washington State, Illinois and other states are also expected to benefit.

 

Today is one of the saddest days during my four years as governor, Strickland said. Because I see jobs leaving Ohio, I see resources leaving Ohio, I see vital infrastructure leaving Ohio. And I see other states being enriched by resources that would otherwise have created thousands of new jobs, revitalized our cities and helped keep our young people in Ohio. I cant understand the logic of giving up these vital, job-creating resources to California and Florida at a time when so many Ohioans need jobs.

 

Ohio competed against other states and won $400 million based on the strength of Ohios plan to restore passenger rail to the most densely populated corridor in the country without passenger rail, the Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati, or 3C-D, corridor. Strickland offered to work closely with the U.S. Department of Transportation to wrap up the current passenger rail study currently underway.

 

I fear that history will show that this one, uninformed decision will be looked upon with regret by future generations of Ohioans, Strickland said.

 

--30--

 

With all due respect Governor, perhaps if you had fought harder for your initiative BEFORE the election.....

 

I would have to agree with this statement.  Strickland should have pressed this issue during the election and done a better job of properly informing the public with the right facts. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed....and add to that...so should the media we lack, had done. But the next question is where do we go from here? Its all certainly worth fighting for.

 

We build up a supporting base for this kind of project. Elect officials who support rail, amongst many other things. Elect uncorrupt citizens and await the doubling of oil prices by 2015. And when we want to gloat over the naysayers, we have to continue to push for change. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know, I caught a lot of flack for voting for Strickland. He was the first Democrat I voted for. I'm not a big fan of him, but every tim Kasich opens his mouth, I feel glad I made that decision despite the outcome. No thanks Johnny boy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...