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Restarting Passenger Rail In Ohio's 3C Corridor

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Now, Ohio loses a chance to create jobs.

 

Plant plan might be derailed

Ohio election results among key blows to local venture's goal of passenger-rail-car factory

Saturday, November 20, 2010  02:55 AM

By Marla Matzer Rose

 

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH 

 

Two weeks after the Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati passenger-rail plan was effectively halted by John Kasich's election as governor, plans for a Columbus-based passenger-rail manufacturing plant appear to be in jeopardy.

 

Missouri-based manufacturer American Railcar Industries said in a regulatory filing this week that it has dissolved a joint venture with US Railcar of Columbus as "the result of current market conditions for . . . orders." The joint venture was announced in February.

 

In an interview, US Railcar chief Barry Fromm said American Railcar will remain his manufacturing partner for any orders his company might get for its self-propelled, diesel-fueled rail cars. Seeing no orders coming through, though, American Railcar chose to pull the $250,000 equity investment it had made in the joint venture.

 

Full story at: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2010/11/20/plant-plan-might-be-derailed.html?sid=101

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Now, Ohio loses a chance to create jobs.

 

Plant plan might be derailed

Ohio election results among key blows to local venture's goal of passenger-rail-car factory

Saturday, November 20, 2010 02:55 AM

By Marla Matzer Rose

 

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Two weeks after the Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati passenger-rail plan was effectively halted by John Kasich's election as governor, plans for a Columbus-based passenger-rail manufacturing plant appear to be in jeopardy.

 

Missouri-based manufacturer American Railcar Industries said in a regulatory filing this week that it has dissolved a joint venture with US Railcar of Columbus as "the result of current market conditions for . . . orders." The joint venture was announced in February.

 

In an interview, US Railcar chief Barry Fromm said American Railcar will remain his manufacturing partner for any orders his company might get for its self-propelled, diesel-fueled rail cars. Seeing no orders coming through, though, American Railcar chose to pull the $250,000 equity investment it had made in the joint venture.

 

Full story at: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2010/11/20/plant-plan-might-be-derailed.html?sid=101

 

Bye-bye jobs...

 

on another note, did anyone notice that the last two articles concerning rail were not written by James Nash? Hmmmm...

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Yes, I certainly did. Perhaps more people, other than just me, said they refused to talk with him anymore.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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How about one of these along I-71, between downtown Columbus and I-270? But it should say "love, Michigan" instead....

 

http://www.wsaw.com/home/headlines/Billboard_Mocks_Walkers_Stance_on_High-Speed_Rail_108412104.html

 

We should have the same billboard as Illinois made it clear at the Midwest High Speed Rail Association's fall conference that they would apply to receive the $400 million Ohio will give up. 

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How about one of these along I-71, between downtown Columbus and I-270? But it should say "love, Michigan" instead....

 

http://www.wsaw.com/home/headlines/Billboard_Mocks_Walkers_Stance_on_High-Speed_Rail_108412104.html

 

We should have the same billboard as Illinois made it clear at the Midwest High Speed Rail Association's fall conference that they would apply to receive the $400 million Ohio will give up.

Yes, I think being factually accurate is more important than exploiting the rivalry. Don't stoop to their level of propaganda.

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This is mind boggling why Kasich is taking this stance.  It's DO or DIE time for Ohio!

 

I hate to say it, but it's not all that mind-boggling.  Kasich is an arrogant, closed-minded ideologue, and I'm afraid that this is a pretty clear indication of what his term is going to be like.  Reason does not appear to be a word in his vocabulary.  His way or the highway (no pun intended), facts be damned.  I also get the feeling that he'll never admit when he's wrong or made a mistake.  I've never been nervous about a new governor before-- whether "D" or "R".  This time, I am. 

 

Kasich's unreasonable, intransigent behavior on this issue is, as I said above, becoming a strong indicator of how he is going to be running things.  The last thing Ohio needs at this time is a leader who is so closed minded, unwilling to be reasonable, and consider that he may actually be wrong about something. 

 

I'm told that if US Railcar got the 3C contract for rolling stock, they would have to hire 400 people and the rail suppliers that he would be dealing with, many of which are in Ohio, would have to hire another 800 people.  That's 1200 jobs, just for the rolling stock. 

 

Kasich says he's all about jobs, but he's totally dismissed, for no other reason than ego and ideology,  what more than 12 other states have already proven to be strong job generators. 

 

I just wish Ohio's media would do a better job of picking up on this major mistake Kasich is already making. 

 

Atta girl Angie !!!!  You rock! :clap: :banger:

 

DITTO! 

 

 

I'm willing to consider whatever media stunts we can think of:  Video of someone made up to look like John Kasich handcuffing someone wearing a costume in the shape of Ohio to a gas pump. 

 

A dummy made up to look like John Kasich hugging a gas pump with a sign that says something like:  "I hate the 3C Corridor because I love the oil companies." 

 

Others with more creativity than me could come up with something better, but you get the idea. 

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And an example of jobs that could have been...

 

US Railcar joint venture partner pulls out

Business First - by Adrian Burns

Date: Friday, November 19, 2010, 2:49pm EST

 

The joint venture between a Columbus-based US Railcar Co. LLC and an out-of-state rail car maker has been dissolved, although US Railcar will continue with plans to build passenger rail cars and is still considering a site in Gahanna for a manufacturing plant, said US Railcar Principal Barry Fromm.

 

US Railcar, a subsidiary of Columbus-based Value Recovery Group Inc., said in February it was joining with St. Charles, Mo.-based American Railcar Industries Inc. to enter the passenger rail market.

 

Read more at: http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/blog/2010/11/us-railcar-joint-venture-partner-pulls.html

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^

Well put. We are in for a rough four years with kasich and I think a lot of us will be headed for other states at the end of it all.

 

He's now "outraged" that he can't arbitrarily take the $400 million for rail and use it for highways. He wants to leapfrog all the other states which played by the rules and have the money spent on more roads.

 

This is what we can expect. Turn off the lights, the party's over.

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^

Well put. We are in for a rough four years with kasich and I think a lot of us will be headed for other states at the end of it all.

 

He's now "outraged" that he can't arbitrarily take the $400 million for rail and use it for highways. He wants to leapfrog all the other states which played by the rules and have the money spent on more roads.

 

This is what we can expect. Turn off the lights, the party's over.

 

Personally, my love for Ohio trumps a train but you do what you feel you gotta do.

 

 

This is about more than a train. Kasich is going to be controversial and could end up costing Ohio in a lot of ways, including jobs and that may force people to leave. Wait till he starts hacking away at other things.

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Kasich also referred to rail advocates as a cult....

 

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/11/21/copy/gop-governors-to-be-alike.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

 

Looks like immaturity and ignorance go hand in hand. I've met high school students with more maturity than this guy and his adies. And since Ohio is one of the few developed places on the planet without passenger rail or a rail project underway, who is the cult?


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Kasich also referred to rail advocates as a cult....

 

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/11/21/copy/gop-governors-to-be-alike.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

 

Looks like immaturity and ignorance go hand in hand. I've met high school students with more maturity than this guy and his adies. And since Ohio is one of the few developed places on the planet without passenger rail or a rail project underway, who is the cult?

 

Kasich is a fine one to talk about cults. He's an ideologue himself and has a fixation on more roads.  :x

 

 

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Kasich is a fine one to talk about cults. He's an ideologue himself and has a fixation on more roads.  :x[  ...This is about more than a train. Kasich is going to be controversial and could end up costing Ohio in a lot of ways, including jobs and that may force people to leave. Wait till he starts hacking away at other things.

 

Exactly BuckeyeB.  This about more than just a train.  This is an example of how he's going to run things... in an immature, ideological shoot-from-the-hip style.  That means Ohio is going to suffer. 

 

I like Ohio too, but this state keeps shooting itself in the foot.  Now we are going to have a governor who is more than happy to pull the trigger.  If I were in a position to leave, I would have to give it serious consideration.  I want to live somewhere where I don't have to drive every place. 

 

Or maybe it's time to consider splitting off several NE Ohio counties into its own state.  There are a lot of good things going on up here at the grassroots level.  Even the city of Cleveland gets it now with its Sustainable Cleveland 2019 initiative, but the Statehouse and Governor's office doesn't really understand and won't any time soon.  I propose the State of Erie including the following counties:  Erie, Lorain, Cuyahoga, Summit Stark, Geauga, Portage, Lake, Ashtabula, Wayne, Trumbull, Mahoning, Holmes, and maybe Medina and Columbiana too.  But I'm digressing... back to trains...

 

I think it probable that Kasich's stance on the 3C, and the attitude it illustrates about his governing style, will ultimately end up being his undoing.  When you have the Pentagon getting concerned about oil prices over the next two years and global supplies after 2014, you need to start seriously thinking about developing alternatives to driving.  His head is in the ideological sand. 

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At the risk of straying off topic and incurring the wrath of the moderator gods...

 

Ohio as a state has been dominated by rural and suburban legislators at the State House for decades. Kasich is more of the same and I think it's high time the cities of Ohio band together to find solutions that bypass the state government.

 

This isn't just about the trains, either. Nearly every urban issue has taken a back seat to rural and highway interests. Urban areas will have to find their own solutions in the face of inaction at the state level.

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^amen.  the health of the urban areas directly corresponds to the health of the rural areas.  For some reason in Ohio its one versus another, and the whole state suffers as a result.  i think thats one thing that gets lost in this discussion; initiatives like the 3C will be a great help to those proponents of agriculture and 'rural character'. 

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Kasich's intransigence on rail could really haunt him. He's so visceral and vicious in his opposition that even beginning to listen to reason would be a sign of weakness. He has himself boxed into a position that does not allow him to even think about a compromise.

 

Now, if the Democrats were smart ... oh, wait. Never mind. ...

 

But we can be smart. Rallies, reaching out to newspapers, reaching out to Republican rail supporters, etc. -- if we do all these things, and keep doing them, we can keep discussion alive. And the more discussion of rail and 3-C, the more news reporting about it, the more unreasonable Kasich looks on this.

 

3-C rail may become an albatross around his neck.

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There are a lot of parts of Ohio gov't that could use the approach Kasich is taking to the 3C - I'm thinking obscene number of school districts and local gov'ts, but a basic passenger rail system for a major urbanized state like Ohio is just such a no-brainer. Maybe Kasich thinks Polaris Parkway is too beautiful for words and that investment in rail would prevent more development like that in the rest of the state.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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"For some reason in Ohio its one versus another..."

 

I am just amazed at the red/blue election results map. Prior to the Bush/Clinton election, the national media showed a simple red/blue map with each state going either red or blue. As I recall, the Bush/Clinton election was the first time that the map was publised at the county level. Even more recently the map has been fine-tuned, with varying shades of purple showing the margin, and a 3-D height showing the number of voters.

 

The general trend is that residents in cities vote blue, while suburban and country areas vote red.

 

It stands to reason, then, that a Republican governor is going to favor the suburban and country areas, because that is where his support is.

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Peak oil and global warming ... (stay with me moderators -- this will be on-topic). It doesn't matter whether Kasich or the tea party or other national Republican leaders "believe" in them. What matters is that the rest of the industrialized world is actively re-tooling for a future that addresses peak oil and global warming, and the more we resist it in this country, the more irrelevent we become in a modern, global economy.

 

The rest of the world wants trains. We, in this country, with our once-vaunted industrial might, are essentially taking ourselves out of that market in our unwillingness to pursue rail in any meaningful way.

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This was on Crain's blog. I haven't opened it because I get sick of reading this tripe and Scott Suttell is a jerk. Perhaps the NH paper isn't aware that Amtrak's Downeaster service ran at slower speeds than 3C will, and yet carries much more riders than was originally projected....

____________

 

EDITOR'S CHOICE -- SCOTT SUTTELL

New Hampshire newspaper loves Ohio's John Kasich

The Union Leader especially likes his stance against the 3C train.

http://e.ccialerts.com/a/hBM6s$CAJFIzoAJaUOuAVQ7JFFz/ccl84-1


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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The Union Leader and its owner are, and have been for years, the biggest right wingers in the nation.  Why is this a surprise or news.

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I tried to talk up the new rail plan with the museum hosts at the Mad River and Nickel Plate RR museum in Bellevue, Ohio.  They seemed barely interested when I told them that I contacted "my legislators" to get the 3-C plan approved.

 

Meanwhile, there was a disconnected "anti-global warming" thesis written by some petro-hack sitting on the glass display case for our "information".

 

I know who those geezers voted for. 

 

Mercury on the brain

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I tried to talk up the new rail plan with the museum hosts at the Mad River and Nickel Plate RR museum in Bellevue, Ohio.  They seemed barely interested when I told them that I contacted "my legislators" to get the 3-C plan approved.

 

Meanwhile, there was a disconnected "anti-global warming" thesis written by some petro-hack sitting on the glass display case for our "information".

 

I know who those geezers voted for. 

 

Mercury on the brain

 

A lot of railroad-museum folks only care about historic technology and statistics, and aren't very interested in modern railroading. The only way 3C could capture their attention would be to promise heavyweight full-service Pullmans behind double-headed PRR K4 Pacifics or NYC Hudsons. They still wouldn't buy a ticket but they'd jam every road and crossing, chasing and photographing the inaugural runs. Many of them are railfans, aka foamers, in the most pejorative sense.

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^ What Robert said. I used to be active on a message board that deal primarily with the New York City subway system, and I quickly earned a lot of derision for being happy that the rusty, dilapidated "redbird" subway cars were finally being replaced with modern cars with smooth acceleration and braking, more comfortable suspension, and functioning air conditioning. You'd think I had mocked the pope or something.

 

I certainly appreciate the vintage stuff, and I've even helped restore and operate a few vintage streetcars and subway trains at various museums, but that doesn't mean I'd want to commute on it everyday. Some of the foamers out there truly live in the past.

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Editorial from a Charlotte NC paper:

 

N.C. should pursue unwanted rail money

Ohio, Wisconsin may help high speed program in Southeast.

Posted: Monday, Nov. 22, 2010

 

We've long thought a lot of the states of Ohio and Wisconsin for their many contributions to American history, culture and prosperity, not to mention airplane inventors, football teams and cheddar cheese. So it was with particular appreciation that we recently read of those states' newly elected governors' intentions to refuse $1.2 billion in federal rail money to develop high-speed rail projects in those areas.

 

As Ohio Gov.-elect John Kasich so elegantly put it, "That train is dead." He was referring to a proposal to link Cincinnati, Cleveland and Columbus with passenger rail service that would ply the Midwestern route at a stately 50 miles per hour. Kasich wants none of it. And Wisconsin Gov.-elect Scott Walker doesn't want money for train service between Madison and Milwaukee.

 

Good. We take the governors at their word when they say they don't need the money their predecessors had applied for and been awarded. But there are other states with traffic congestion problems and significant air travel delays that would be delighted to have all or part of the money Ohio and Wisconsin don't want. California is one of them, but with the Golden State's budget problems that dwarf North Carolina's, sending the money to the West Coast may not be the best use of it.

 

Full editorial at: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/11/22/1857259/nc-should-pursue-unwanted-rail.html

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North Carolina = the state that has gone from Mayberry RFD to an economic powerhouse.

 

Ohio = a state that is going from an economic powerhouse to Mayberry RFD.

 

EDIT: I loved the last line in the editorial... "Buckeyes and Badgers, thanks a billion."

 

 


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Since this thread seems to be stalled out on anything but "Kasich is a jerk" comments, I thought I'd post this article which might be relevant for some worthwhile discussion.  Interesting points about what works in China won't work here in the US.

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/11/why-the-us-will-not-get-chinas-high-speed-rail/66863/

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Since this thread seems to be stalled out on anything but "Kasich is a jerk" comments, I thought I'd post this article which might be relevant for some worthwhile discussion. Interesting points about what works in China won't work here in the US.

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/11/why-the-us-will-not-get-chinas-high-speed-rail/66863/

 

Can you please re-post this to the "Overseas, the Trains and The Market For Them Accelerate" thread?  Thanks.

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,7449.0.html

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Why would someone compare a nation of 1.2 billion people to one with 300 million people?

 

How about comparing Ohio to France? (same population density)

 

How about comparing Greater Cleveland, Ohio (2.2 million) to Metro Cologne, Germany (1 million)? Or that there are cities of 1 million+ within 150 miles in four directions (Detroit, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Buffalo), with secondary cities in between (Toledo, Mansfield, Youngstown, Erie)?

 

Anyone who has traveled in Europe will notice that they do have wide open spaces. Lots of them. Tell me if this landscape doesn't look like Ohio....

 

 

That was Frankfurt to Colonge on the new 200 mph line (sped up to mach2 for brevity!), built to relieve passenger rail congestion on 19th century line that was rebuilt 30 years ago to offer 100 mph. And the 140-mile Frankfurt-Cologne corridor has 7 million people -- the same as Cleveland-Pittsburgh, also 140 miles apart.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Of all the questions the media is asking, it's missing the most important ones:

 

How will Ohioans stay mobile, and how will Ohio stay attractive to residents and businesses when:

 

> our competitors are investing for the future while Ohio is not?

> oil production falls by more than 10 percent between 2012-15 and continues to slide thereafter (compared to 5% drop over only a few months in 1973)?

> the largest population group in US History, GenY, is driving far less than the preceding, smaller generation?

> the second-largest group, the Baby Boomers, start turning 65 years old next year?

 

Ohio is changing. It transportation system is not. Yes, investing for the future always carries some risk, but standing still always guarantees failure.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Of all the questions the media is asking, it's missing the most important ones:

 

How will Ohioans stay mobile, and how will Ohio stay attractive to residents and businesses when:

 

> our competitors are investing for the future while Ohio is not?

> oil production falls by more than 10 percent between 2012-15 and continues to slide thereafter (compared to 5% drop over only a few months in 1973)?

> the largest population group in US History, GenY, is driving far less than the preceding, smaller generation?

> the second-largest group, the Baby Boomers, start turning 65 years old next year?

 

Ohio is changing. It transportation system is not. Yes, investing for the future always carries some risk, but standing still always guarantees failure.

 

Well said.... very well said.

 

And another eloquent voice....this one a young professional from Dayton who writes for the local weekly...

 

Dear Governor-Elect John Kasich, Ohioans are asking for Due DiligenceBy Maha Kashani

 

 

Maha Kashani

On January 28, 2010, U.S. Department of Transportation announced it was awarding $8 billion to states across the country for a national high-speed passenger rail system as an investment in our country’s transportation infrastructure to create jobs, transform travel in America and keep us on pace with the rest of the world. Ohio worked long and hard to secure $400 million, substantially more than any of our neighboring states, for the high-speed passenger rail system connecting Dayton to Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati.

 

Fast forward to election season, I will never forget first hearing those chilling words, “Ohio’s high-speed passenger train is dead” spoken by Governor-elect John Kasich. Having just sat through a meeting with the Ohio Department of Transportation (ODOT) about the future of transportation in Ohio, I was blown away that a candidate for governor could state inaccurate facts and paint a false picture for Ohioans about wanting to give the $400M, earmarked exclusively for high-speed passenger rail, back to our taxpayers.

 

Full column at: http://www.daytoncitypaper.com/?p=2372

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^^And Kasick's response to this well thought our argument..."another member of the 'cult'" (if he even reads things like this which I doubt).

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^^And Kasick's response to this well thought our argument..."another member of the 'cult'" (if he even reads things like this which I doubt).

 

Not trying to change Kasich's mind.  The object is to show other political leaders (such as in the Ohio General Assembly) there is broad public support for having passenger rail as an option and that it IS an essential transportation investment with a significant return.

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