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Cleveland: Detroit-Shoreway / Gordon Square Arts District: Development and News

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2 hours ago, JSC216 said:

If you wanted to do anything I would suggest reducing the amount of pavement on the intersection. Reduce Lake to 25ft, one lane in each direction. On the south side of the street create a two way 10 ft bike lane with a 5ft landscaped buffer from traffic. 

I think we should take advantage of our wide steeets and use them to leverage future density. We may be a shrinking city but we should make plans like we’re growing. 

 

Im a cyclist but I want to exercise my full rights to the road, I’d rather not have a parallel lane for my own use. From what I’ve seen in other cities, bike lanes have their own safety issues, not to mention the costs and the congestion they create. I’m happy to share the road despite the risks.

 

We were just in Mexico City and they have many roundabouts (with speed bumps) to slow traffic. Not sure how speedbumps would work with snow plows but they seem to work well in a warm city of 25 million. Mexicans use the islands in the center of their roundabouts to express their cultural and civic pride with monuments. I think we could do the same. 

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3 hours ago, KJP said:

I like the idea of a roundabout with a fountain and/or statue because it is placemaking that calms traffic, provides a spark for development, and it provides a legal basis for taking neighborhood-deflating properties from neighborhood-deflating owners. 

 

What, a public art display/Target advertisement in front of a Burger King parking lot doesn't accomplish this?  

 

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Now, hand sketched renderings aren’t my wheelhouse, but I see this as a way to connect and smooth out the mess of streets at the Lake/Detroit intersection while opening it for development.

B248CC56-06B6-4D18-9835-27ABE9F798C1.png

Edited by marty15

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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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Cleaned it up a little bit. Submitting to the city this evening. If any of you have any ideas/suggestions, the deadline is tomorrow for the Lake Ave. masterplan. 

 

cleveland.mindmixer.com

2089620C-6311-4B39-BE99-CD6C1CCCB48F.jpeg

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17 minutes ago, marty15 said:

Cleaned it up a little bit. Submitting to the city this evening. If any of you have any ideas/suggestions, the deadline is tomorrow for the Lake Ave. masterplan. 

 

cleveland.mindmixer.com

2089620C-6311-4B39-BE99-CD6C1CCCB48F.jpeg

Looks good. One lane of traffic, all cars go counter-clockwise to any street without stopping.

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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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On 6/14/2019 at 4:56 PM, marty15 said:

Cleaned it up a little bit. Submitting to the city this evening. If any of you have any ideas/suggestions, the deadline is tomorrow for the Lake Ave. masterplan. 

 

cleveland.mindmixer.com

2089620C-6311-4B39-BE99-CD6C1CCCB48F.jpeg

 

Why would you want a giant circle like that in the middle of Detroit Ave?  This is isn't a rural or suburban area---this is in the city and the street system works completely fine here. A circle would take out lots of property and kill the urban vibe.

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10 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

Why would you want a giant circle like that in the middle of Detroit Ave?  This is isn't a rural or suburban area---this is in the city and the street system works completely fine here. A circle would take out lots of property and kill the urban vibe.

Feels pretty urban to me... https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9092946,-77.0425897,3a,75y,327.79h,93.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssSISQKUufwqEO9m1XANNdA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

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Geez, Pugu. Ever been to Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Washington DC, London, Paris, etc etc??

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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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15 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

Why would you want a giant circle like that in the middle of Detroit Ave?  This is isn't a rural or suburban area---this is in the city and the street system works completely fine here. 

Respectfully couldn’t disagree more. The current convergence of speeding traffic is so dangerous for cyclists. 

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Not only that... but this is NEEDED on Franklin. The lights from 50th to 25th can make a .9 mile drive take 10-12 minutes. 

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Ah! I see a lot of support for the menacing circle. I get their efficiency in some places, I just don't see it at Detroit and Lake. We need intersections like that which this city is constantly destroying.  To Yabo713 who presents Dupont Circle, Washington has many many diagonals which give the city character, so an occasional circle works, plus there is greater density at Dupont Circle.  Putting a circle at 75th and Detroit is about as smart as when RTA destroys buildings and activity to put a 'transit center' after obliterating the ridership that was originally there, like at 22nd and Prospect.

 

KJP--where in NYC are these things, with the exception of Columbus Circle?

Edited by Pugu
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I don't get the appeal. The only traffic circles I've found tolerable were in small towns with low traffic allowing a tight circle.

 

You couldn't pay me to ride a bike around a busy circle. There are just far too many people in cars incapable of navigating them. I'd rather trust a traffic light.

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12 minutes ago, Pugu said:

Ah! I see a lot of support for the menacing circle. I get their efficiency in some places, I just don't see it at Detroit and Lake. We need intersections like that which this city is constantly destroying.  To Yabo713 who presents Dupont Circle, Washington has many many diagonals which give the city character, so an occasional circle works, plus there is greater density at Dupont Circle.  Putting a circle at 75th and Detroit is about as smart as when RTA destroys buildings and activity to put a 'transit center' after obliterating the ridership that was originally there, like at 22nd and Prospect.

 

KJP--where in NYC are these things, with the exception of Columbus Circle?

 

Yep, just Columbus Circle that I know of. I've heard roundabouts are coming to the Bronx and Staten Island, however.


"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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I am under the impression traffic circles are worse for pedestrians. It makes the overall route longer, makes more crossings for pedestrians and drivers think they don't have to yield/slow down for pedestrians trying to cross. Source: having to traverse the traffic circle YaBoi posted on my walk to work every day. Check out that double cross, just to get into the circle, then two more to get out of it on the other side. Alternatively, if you wanted to walk all the way around DuPont circle, it's out of the way, and had to cross several additional streets. I understand that the traffic circle here wouldn't be fed by as many streets as DuPont, but I still think this would be worse for pedestrians. 

 

I get that traffic circles increase safety for drivers. They increase the amount of crashes, but due to the traffic calming nature of forcing people to slow down, the severity of each accident is decreased. But, if drivers think they don't have to stop anymore, they're going to be looking to the left for oncoming traffic and not necessarily the other direction for pedestrians. 

Edited by smimes
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I love roundabouts. They move traffic much better than signaled intersections. Combined with traffic calming features, roundabouts can be very pedestrian and bike friendly. 

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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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It depends how the circle is designed if it will be bicycle or ped friendly. The one example above is not bike or pedestrian friendly. They are creating a roundabout smack in the middle of downtown Akron on Lebron James Way aka Main St. i believe there will be a statue of him in the circle but they haven’t  announced the details yet. I think it will be a water feature too. So maybe Lebron on a fountain? Anyways, this will be car, ped, and bike friendly. Its a fairly small circle and people will cross at normal intersections not in the circle.  We shall see, it is about a third complete. 

Edited by audidave

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Traffic circles have a car first mentality. I often hear fans of traffic circles state that traffic circles are statistically safer for pedestrians. While this may be true, so are pedestrian bridges. I wouldn't call either convenient, urban, or pedestrian friendly though. They are also terrible for the visually impaired.

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36 minutes ago, JSC216 said:

Traffic circles have a car first mentality. 

Not necessarily. It's all how they're designed. Check out this before and after shot of La Jolla Blvd in San Diego. It's a world of improvement for pedestrians. 

 

https://www.cnu.org/publicsquare/2018/01/10/road-diet-bridges-barrier-boosts-safety

Edited by surfohio
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Just now, surfohio said:

Not necessarily. It's all how they're designed. Check out this before and after shot of La Jolla Blvd in San Diego. It's a world of improvement for pedestrians. 

 

https://www.cnu.org/publicsquare/2018/01/10/road-diet-bridges-barrier-boosts-safety

Looks to have more to do with the reduction of lanes, introduction of a median, on street parking buffer, and a ton of landscaping. All of this could have still been achieved without the traffic circles. The article mentions that pedestrians have to cross less pavement now. While this is somewhat true, thanks to islands and the reduction of lanes, it's referring specifically to drivable pavement. Pedestrians actually have to travel a further distance and more complicated route now.

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^Going from 5 lanes to 2 lanes is a good thing? Have you ever driven behind someone going 25 mph when the limit is 35? if there are two lanes/direction you can go around them. In the example above in LaJolla, not only are drivers inefficiently stuck behind the person driving too slow, everyone has to wait for anyone turning left. That's inefficient, causes congestion, and adds carbon output to the environment. And, in addition to a standard 8' parking lane in one direction, you also get a 16' parking lane in one direction? what good is that? 

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Just now, Pugu said:

^Going from 5 lanes to 2 lanes is a good thing? Have you ever driven behind someone going 25 mph when the limit is 35? if there are two lanes/direction you can go around them. In the example above in LaJolla, not only are drivers inefficiently stuck behind the person driving too slow, everyone has to wait for anyone turning left. That's inefficient, causes congestion, and adds carbon output to the environment. And, in addition to a standard 8' parking lane in one direction, you also get a 16' parking lane in one direction? what good is that? 

This is near where I live. Take my word for it, this setup is very much an improvement for drivers, pedestrians, cyclists and all of the businesses fronting the road (which is the Pacific Coast Highway by the way). 

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10 minutes ago, JSC216 said:

Looks to have more to do with the reduction of lanes, introduction of a median, on street parking buffer, and a ton of landscaping. All of this could have still been achieved without the traffic circles. The article mentions that pedestrians have to cross less pavement now. While this is somewhat true, thanks to islands and the reduction of lanes, it's referring specifically to drivable pavement. Pedestrians actually have to travel a further distance and more complicated route now.

As a driver, I prefer this new setup vs. waiting at the traffic lights, which on this busy stretch used to back up traffic considerably. But I'll agree to the extent that yes, the islands and lane reduction and the pedestrian crossing signals (not pictured) and clearly marked crosswalks, they all work in tandem and are necessary.  

 

And it's not complicated for pedestrians at all. It's actually much nicer walking along outdoor patios, etc. 

Edited by surfohio

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Imagine walking on the north side of Detroit through this intersection/circle.  I can see how it's an improvement for drivers, but as a pedestrian it's a nightmare. 

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I finally tried out Blue Habanero at W 65 & Detroit----its was really really good. Good drinks and delicious food. 

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Site demolition and preparation began yesterday for The Slate, 19 townhomes at West 58th and Herman

http://solocle.com/the-slate/

 

5501-Herman-Ave-1.jpg

The Slate-siteplan.JPG

The Slate-rooftop.JPG

Edited by KJP
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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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Does anyone know why townhouse projects in CLE always have pedestrian paths breaking up the rows of houses?  Is it a code requirement?

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Added one more render


"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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On 6/21/2019 at 11:18 AM, StapHanger said:

Does anyone know why townhouse projects in CLE always have pedestrian paths breaking up the rows of houses?  Is it a code requirement?

I just thought of it as another way for residents to access the garage space, maybe if they went for a walk or something and need to access their car. 

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On 6/21/2019 at 11:18 AM, StapHanger said:

Does anyone know why townhouse projects in CLE always have pedestrian paths breaking up the rows of houses?  Is it a code requirement?

Looking at the site plan, there are apartment buildings on the back of the site. How would one access those?

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5 minutes ago, yanni_gogolak said:

Looking at the site plan, there are apartment buildings on the back of the site. How would one access those?

Is this site backed up to one of the few alleyways in Cleveland?

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On 6/21/2019 at 11:18 AM, StapHanger said:

Does anyone know why townhouse projects in CLE always have pedestrian paths breaking up the rows of houses?  Is it a code requirement?

 

A chance for a "corner" unit with some more windows?

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On 6/27/2019 at 1:50 PM, KFM44107 said:

Is this site backed up to one of the few alleyways in Cleveland?

 

I'm confused, are you not seeing the site plan a couple posts above?

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5 minutes ago, yanni_gogolak said:

 

I'm confused, are you not seeing the site plan a couple posts above?

I see it now that I am viewing it on my computer. I had originally looked at it on my phone, which was a pretty small photo. 

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On 11/13/2018 at 12:30 PM, KJP said:

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2018/11162018/index.php

NEAR WEST DESIGN REVIEW

NW2018-032 – Edgewater Hill Townhomes New Construction: Seeking Schematic Design Approval
Project Location: West 73rd Street near Herman Avenue
Project Representative: Garrett Lapping, Sixmo Architects

 

Edgewater_Hill_IMG_01.jpg

 

Edgewater_Hill_IMG_03.jpg

 

Edgewater_Hill_IMG_05.jpg

 

Edgewater_Hill_IMG_07.jpg

 

Edgewater_Hill_IMG_08.jpg

 

I noticed a couple backhoes parked on this site this morning. Not sure how long they’ve been sitting there. 

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