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Cleveland: Detroit-Shoreway / Gordon Square Arts District: Development and News

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17 minutes ago, RMB said:

Is there any funding for this plan?

Page 5 of the planning study suggestions that funding still has to be secured.

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57 minutes ago, RMB said:

Is there any funding for this plan?


If I remember correctly, they have $150,000 set for initial basic improvements, aka Phase I, on page 33 of the PDF.

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There is $150K for initial improvements, mostly surrounding the decrepit rail bridge (though not directly on the bridge, since that is privately owned by N/S).  

 

Zone said Lake Ave is slated to be re-paved in 2021 for the section between Detroit and Clifton, but that didn't seem to include any of the elements seen in the presentation.  Once they  finalize this plan, it will be submitted for approval and then they'll work to secure funding.  So it's probably more of a 3-5 year horizon, while fully restoring the bridge will likely take longer. 

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58 minutes ago, ML11 said:

There is $150K for initial improvements, mostly surrounding the decrepit rail bridge (though not directly on the bridge, since that is privately owned by N/S).  

 

Zone said Lake Ave is slated to be re-paved in 2021 for the section between Detroit and Clifton, but that didn't seem to include any of the elements seen in the presentation.  Once they  finalize this plan, it will be submitted for approval and then they'll work to secure funding.  So it's probably more of a 3-5 year horizon, while fully restoring the bridge will likely take longer. 

Well that’s depressing. Lake Ave being the gateway into the neighborhood from the west burbs..... This street needs repaved yesterday. 2021?  That’s not really acceptable. That street is in such bad shape right now.

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On the positive side, that gives time to gather funding to do the type of street redesign to make more of a complete street.


"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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An idea that I’ve had that I think would truly be something that’s transformative would be to create a traffic circle where Lake, Detroit, 75th,76th, and 77th come together. So much vacant land there. Use eminent domain to take out the gas station and Burger King. That should be a thriving intersection. I attached a rough mock-up. If anyone here has the skills to do a more professional looking overlay that’d be sweet. If we got 3 years, I wanna push this.

8FF72FAE-A8B8-4DB2-BB20-ED425CBA0E0F.jpeg

Edited by marty15
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^ Nice idea, but I'd much rather see all that vacant space developed with mixed use right up to the current sidewalk, like E 55th. and Hamlet Ave in Slavic Village:

 

slavic_village.thumb.jpg.f308e392987233582e0139362fb8a279.jpg

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33 minutes ago, marty15 said:

An idea that I’ve had that I think would truly be something that’s transformative would be to create a traffic circle where Lake, Detroit, 75th,76th, and 77th come together. So much vacant land there. Use eminent domain to take out the gas station and Burger King. That should be a thriving intersection. I attached a rough mock-up. If anyone here has the skills to do a more professional looking overlay that’d be sweet. If we got 3 years, I wanna push this.

8FF72FAE-A8B8-4DB2-BB20-ED425CBA0E0F.jpeg

 I like the idea of a round about, they are really under utilized...  looking at your drawing though i think it can be done with out removing the surrounding businesses...  i am not opposed to removing them but i think it can be done without.

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I really would just love to see more dense development in place of the BK and gas station. That Burger King has like 70+ parking spaces. Would love to see an Uptown esqe development around that intersection. 

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I was thinking a park with a fountain where the gas station is, and a fully developed playground where the old Watterson-Lake elementary school building was.

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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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2 minutes ago, KJP said:

I was thinking a park with a fountain where the gas station is, and a fully developed playground where the old Watterson-Lake elementary school building was.

How about a fountain in the roundabout? Redevelop the building behind the GS..... Cut out openings and add balconies to the side of that storage building looking out on the circle. 

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I used to get so depressed thinking about this intersection and the hurdles that would need to be overcome to eliminate the gas station, burger king, and happy's chicken and build a truly vibrant intersection...I also used to have that same thought for the plaza across from the West Side Market though and look where that is going...Miracles do happen. 

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2 minutes ago, YO to the CLE said:

I used to get so depressed thinking about this intersection and the hurdles that would need to be overcome to eliminate the gas station, burger king, and happy's chicken and build a truly vibrant intersection...I also used to have that same thought for the plaza across from the West Side Market though and look where that is going...Miracles do happen. 

Same

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The lady who owns the BK lives in Boca Raton, has no interest in selling, and doesn’t give a damn about the neighborhood. I’m not the biggest fan of using eminent domain, though I would be in this case.

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4 hours ago, marty15 said:

How about a fountain in the roundabout? Redevelop the building behind the GS..... Cut out openings and add balconies to the side of that storage building looking out on the circle. 

I really like this idea. Gordon Square may need some “breathing room” if all the proposed developments happen. Found this stock image that could be a model: 

3FC286EF-8FE3-434A-9BB6-E2C30CE46164.jpeg

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45 minutes ago, Cleveland Trust said:

I really like this idea. Gordon Square may need some “breathing room” if all the proposed developments happen. Found this stock image that could be a model: 

3FC286EF-8FE3-434A-9BB6-E2C30CE46164.jpeg

If NYC traffic can handle it..... I seriously think it’d really help tie things together. Sit at that intersection and you really see how much space there is to work with.  Let’s not just do new pavement and crosswalks. So tired of the ordinary.

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22 hours ago, marty15 said:

An idea that I’ve had that I think would truly be something that’s transformative would be to create a traffic circle where Lake, Detroit, 75th,76th, and 77th come together. So much vacant land there. Use eminent domain to take out the gas station and Burger King. That should be a thriving intersection. I attached a rough mock-up. If anyone here has the skills to do a more professional looking overlay that’d be sweet. If we got 3 years, I wanna push this.

8FF72FAE-A8B8-4DB2-BB20-ED425CBA0E0F.jpeg

Just sketched up a plan based on your roundabout idea and thought a giant sculpture by Jaume Plensa facing east would be a nice anchor for this new Gordon Square public space. Drop a world class piece of art into a blighted intersection dominated by a Burger King parking lot and watch what happens. I think it could be a needed catalyst for the west end to catch fire.

8B820209-F8B7-4960-B664-995D7FF62A80.jpeg

A6D2EABD-B0AD-47F4-BA8D-1D16E94FE3AF.jpeg

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28 minutes ago, Cleveland Trust said:

Just sketched up a plan based on your roundabout idea and thought a giant sculpture by Jaume Plensa facing east would be a nice anchor for this new Gordon Square public space. Drop a world class piece of art into a blighted intersection dominated by a Burger King parking lot and watch what happens. I think it could be a needed catalyst for the west end to catch fire.

8B820209-F8B7-4960-B664-995D7FF62A80.jpeg

A6D2EABD-B0AD-47F4-BA8D-1D16E94FE3AF.jpeg

I love it!  

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How’s St. John Circle sound? In tribute to the old St. John hospital around the corner. Now St. Augustine.

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I had time so I did a 3D sketch of the roundabout as St. John’s Circle. I’m thinking a little public infrastructure spending and a big splash landmark sculpture could have a big spillover effect for development. 

ABED909E-1208-4588-9125-4DA7614DF32D.jpeg

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6 minutes ago, Cleveland Trust said:

I had time so I did a 3D sketch of the roundabout as St. John’s Circle. I’m thinking a little public infrastructure spending and a big splash landmark sculpture could have a big spillover effect for development. 

ABED909E-1208-4588-9125-4DA7614DF32D.jpeg

Keep it coming! When I get a chance to sit down this weekend I’m gonna dig in a little deeper. Thinking a protected bike lane around the outer perimeter is also imperative.

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20 hours ago, marty15 said:

If NYC traffic can handle it..... I seriously think it’d really help tie things together. Sit at that intersection and you really see how much space there is to work with.  Let’s not just do new pavement and crosswalks. So tired of the ordinary.

As someone who works directly above this clusterphuck, I can tell you it's worse than it appears to be.  I cant tell you the amount of times, a pedestrian has been hit or an automobile has run a light or almost hit someone because a cross walk gives a pedestrian the impression they could cross while traffic is on coming.  I'm not a fan of circles, especially those in DC!

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For the central sculpture I wonder if we could get Jaume Plensa to do a bust of Masumi  Hayashi. Her studio was at this intersection.

71589F1E-4887-411B-A857-E339583B7347.jpeg

E0F8775B-176C-4067-AC19-65E878C30151.jpeg

Edited by Cleveland Trust
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31 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

As someone who works directly above this clusterphuck, I can tell you it's worse than it appears to be.  I cant tell you the amount of times, a pedestrian has been hit or an automobile has run a light or almost hit someone because a cross walk gives a pedestrian the impression they could cross while traffic is on coming.  I'm not a fan of circles, especially those in DC!

Agreed. There isn’t even a traffic argument for this. A traffic circle would add a lot of pavement to this intersection, as well as eat up a lot of the developable land. The interiors are generally rather inaccessible and unpleasant, becoming more of a driver amenity (something interesting to look at), rather than a pedestrian amenity or neighborhood asset. I agree with @Mendo and would much rather see a pedestrian friendly urban intersection similar to East 55th and Broadway. 

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American roundabouts shouldn’t be used as examples. As well as using examples from incredibly dense and congested urban areas.

 

This isn’t for downtown, it’s a Cleveland neighborhood. They’ve also been show to reduce accidents and improve traffic flow and reduce speeds. You can’t ever be t-boned or hit head on.

 

Take a trip to Europe, France specifically, and come back and comment. As far as wasting undeveloped space? Have you seen how much pavement is at that intersection as is?? Just cutting into the triangle where the gas station is would be the largest loss. Unless someone is proposing a flat iron building there, a good part of that point isn’t largely usable. 

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Realignment of the side streets to square up better with the circle would also make for great opportunities to add patios and public spaces to the side and front of the bank and laundromat buildings. 

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2 minutes ago, marty15 said:

American roundabouts shouldn’t be used as examples. As well as using examples from incredibly dense and congested urban areas.

 

This isn’t for downtown, it’s a Cleveland neighborhood. They’ve also been show to reduce accidents and improve traffic flow and reduce speeds. You can’t ever be t-boned or hit head on.

 

Take a trip to Europe, France specifically, and come back and comment. As far as wasting undeveloped space? Have you seen how much pavement is at that intersection as is?? Just cutting into the triangle where the gas station is would be the largest loss. Unless someone is proposing a flat iron building there, a good part of that point isn’t largely usable. 

I believe and understand it's for a neighborhood.  There can be other ways to calm traffic other than a round about.  I would prefer to see better transit development than street redesign for automobiles.

 

Saying, "take a trip to Europe...." is extremely condescending and belittling, even if that was not your intent. As a reader of this comment, it implies that someone is not worldly nor have they been exposed to different things, cities or experiences, which is far from normal with people here on UrbanOhio.   I lived in London for a time and I've been to Europe, personally and professionally, more times than I can count.  That still does not change my opinion of roundabouts/traffic circles.

 

meryl streep GIF

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7 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

I believe and understand it's for a neighborhood.  There can be other ways to calm traffic other than a round about.  I would prefer to see better transit development than street redesign for automobiles.

 

Saying, "take a trip to Europe...." is extremely condescending and belittling, even if that was not your intent. As a reader of this comment, it implies that someone is not worldly nor have they been exposed to different things, cities or experiences, which is far from normal with people here on UrbanOhio.   I lived in London for a time and I've been to Europe, personally and professionally, more times than I can count.  That still does not change my opinion of roundabouts/traffic circles.

 

meryl streep GIF

Sorry for sounding condescending. That wasn’t the intent. Trying to make the point that they work very well in Europe. All we’re getting is a street redesign for automobiles as far as this intersection goes.

 

You could at least provide a bike lane buffer/island on the perimeter of a roundabout.  And status quo means we’ll get to keep the Burger King and gas station for the foreseeable future. And draw nothing else to what should be a dynamic focal point. 

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It’s a non functional mishmash of an intersection as is. Just look where 75th, 76th, and 77th all come into Detroit and Lake. It’s a mess. A roundabout fixes all of it. It’s no wonder no one will mess with the land around it. 

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11 minutes ago, marty15 said:

It’s a non functional mishmash of an intersection as is. Just look where 75th, 76th, and 77th all come into Detroit and Lake. It’s a mess. A roundabout fixes all of it. It’s no wonder no one will mess with the land around it. 

Why do you feel a roundabout/traffic circle is the only solution?  

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1 minute ago, MyTwoSense said:

Why do you feel a roundabout/traffic circle is the only solution?  

I’m open to other ideas. I haven’t seen anything other than resurfacing the current intersection.

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21 minutes ago, marty15 said:

I’m open to other ideas. I haven’t seen anything other than resurfacing the current intersection.

If you wanted to do anything I would suggest reducing the amount of pavement on the intersection. Reduce Lake to 25ft, one lane in each direction. On the south side of the street create a two way 10 ft bike lane with a 5ft landscaped buffer from traffic. 

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I like the idea of a roundabout with a fountain and/or statue because it is placemaking that calms traffic, provides a spark for development, and it provides a legal basis for taking neighborhood-deflating properties from neighborhood-deflating owners. 

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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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10 minutes ago, KJP said:

I like the idea of a roundabout with a fountain and/or statue because it is placemaking that calms traffic, provides a spark for development, and it provides a legal basis for taking neighborhood-deflating properties from neighborhood-deflating owners. 

“and it provides a legal basis for taking neighborhood-deflating properties from neighborhood-deflating owners. “ 

 

Thats the biggest thing imo ^^^^^

 

All aboard the roundabout! 

 

Pun intended*

 

 

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16 minutes ago, KJP said:

I like the idea of a roundabout with a fountain and/or statue because it is placemaking that calms traffic, provides a spark for development, and it provides a legal basis for taking neighborhood-deflating properties from neighborhood-deflating owners. 

Gain control, put out RFPs for surrounding vacant land.

 

 That intersection is like a linchpin for the upper west side. 

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22 minutes ago, marty15 said:

“and it provides a legal basis for taking neighborhood-deflating properties from neighborhood-deflating owners. “ 

 

Thats the biggest thing imo ^^^^^

 

All aboard the roundabout! 

 

Pun intended*

 

 

 

But that's the part that no one can officially say to justify the project. 


"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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5 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

But that's the part that no one can officially say to justify the project. 

And that’s okay.

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