Pugu Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 That garage is atrocious. And efforts to make it pretty with art make it stand out even more. The lot is big enough they could do 1-2 levels underground and it would fully replace the five-story or whatever ugly garage. That space could be a park or another bldg with a some retail, but a giant garage looks horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJP Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Compare the cost of underground parking vs above-ground parking and get back to us. “What is the meaning of this city? Do you huddle close together because you love each other?” Or “We all dwell together to make money from each other”? -- TS Eliot’s The Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugu Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 ^I didn't say it was the same price or cheaper. I said the park garage was ugly and made more pronounced by their attempts to beautify it. But being underground would certainly add to the value of the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJP Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 It is fun to spend other people's money, no doubt about that. “What is the meaning of this city? Do you huddle close together because you love each other?” Or “We all dwell together to make money from each other”? -- TS Eliot’s The Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Htsguy Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Yes that garage is pretty bad. Both siting and design. I wonder if they will get any major push back from the PC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StapHanger Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 No skin off my teeth, but those corner courtyard units are going to be pretty bleak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJP Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Parking garage exteriors can be designed in any way, including to look like regular ol' buildings. The first one is at Princeton University and the second from the campus of Miami University of Ohio. “What is the meaning of this city? Do you huddle close together because you love each other?” Or “We all dwell together to make money from each other”? -- TS Eliot’s The Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugu Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 ^Yes! Those look fine. Cleveland Clinic even did a partial job like this--with a garage wrapped in offices on two sides, and standard ugly garage on the other side. Facing 93 St. and Euclid are nice. Facing E 90 St and the rest of Hough, they didn't bother. But the developer at this project is showing the garage as usual, unconcealed ugly garage with concrete ramps. A better design is either underground or concealed. "It is fun to spend other people's money, no doubt about that." Is this YOUR money KJP? What a bizarre statement. It almost suggests that to ensure proper profit levels of business people/developers, no critique or improvements to design should be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Happy to see more investment and housing coming to the neighborhood. But man, this design is pretty atrocious all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jws Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Happy to see more investment and housing coming to the neighborhood. But man, this design is pretty atrocious all around. The entire development, both existing or planned, just looks like really expensive student housing. Happy to see the density, though. Also, I do like that courtyard pool design on sheets DR3 and DR7. Curious which design is the actual one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJP Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Is this YOUR money KJP? What a bizarre statement. It almost suggests that to ensure proper profit levels of business people/developers, no critique or improvements to design should be made. We all make suggestions about design, but it's important to be practical about them if we care about our reputations. It's often the most important currency. Putting parking underground in neighborhoods and other non-CBD locations is a gold-plated idea that would kill a project like this. This is a neighborhood where $500,000+ townhomes are common and where NRP's Phase 1 leased out faster than almost every other apartment project in its nationwide portfolio and yet the neighborhood still lacks the price support for underground parking. NRP is proposing a parking deck here not because they want to but because they have to, considering the number of units proposed and the lack of nearby land for surface parking. You may not be aware that NRP already walked away from building this Phase 2 on the east side of West 58th because HKM Direct Market Communications wanted too much money for its property. Parking doesn't produce any revenue for these developments so developers certainly don't want to spend any more money than they have to. In fact parking (especially structured parking) raises the price point of housing anywhere from 12-25 percent. http://www.vtpi.org/park-hou.pdf But in the absence of quality transit, it is a necessary expenditure for developers. Just don't ask them to spend too much on this "loss leader" if you want them to move forward with their investment plans. “What is the meaning of this city? Do you huddle close together because you love each other?” Or “We all dwell together to make money from each other”? -- TS Eliot’s The Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfohio Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Finally. My friend is doing the mural on the Shoreway bridge. http://www.cannadaychapman.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASP1984 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Is this YOUR money KJP? What a bizarre statement. It almost suggests that to ensure proper profit levels of business people/developers, no critique or improvements to design should be made. We all make suggestions about design, but it's important to be practical about them if we care about our reputations. It's often the most important currency. Putting parking underground in neighborhoods and other non-CBD locations is a gold-plated idea that would kill a project like this. This is a neighborhood where $500,000+ townhomes are common and where NRP's Phase 1 leased out faster than almost every other apartment project in its nationwide portfolio and yet the neighborhood still lacks the price support for underground parking. NRP is proposing a parking deck here not because they want to but because they have to, considering the number of units proposed and the lack of nearby land for surface parking. You may not be aware that NRP already walked away from building this Phase 2 on the east side of West 58th because HKM Direct Market Communications wanted too much money for its property. Parking doesn't produce any revenue for these developments so developers certainly don't want to spend any more money than they have to. In fact parking (especially structured parking) raises the price point of housing anywhere from 12-25 percent. http://www.vtpi.org/park-hou.pdf But in the absence of quality transit, it is a necessary expenditure for developers. Just don't ask them to spend too much on this "loss leader" if you want them to move forward with their investment plans. Cleveland needs more art, more color, and less surface parking - the parking garage achieves all that at a practical cost the market will support. Plenty of cities around the world have funky, eclectic building facades that stick out b/c of art - this will be no different. Perhaps a living wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Htsguy Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 ^I don't think any of the posters were clamoring for more surface parking...just a better designed parking garage. If that was the case in the first place it would not have to be covered up with art. One of my biggest problems is the siting. It seems to hang on to one of the buildings like a tumor. By the way it appears the design also proposes a fair amount of surface parking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Htsguy Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Isn't NPR also the developer of that big apartment block at the corner of Green and Chagrin in Beachwood? While I am not fan of that design either they did seem to incorporate and hide the parking much better than this proposal. I wonder how the economics of both projects compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanfrazier Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Regarding the Detroit-Shoreway Apartments above, am I reading the schematics correctly that there's no ground-level retail? That seems like a bigger missed opportunity than the parking garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StapHanger Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 This is very much in the "it's fun to spend other people's money" category (h/t to KJP), but as much as I love the density boost here, a big part of me is sad we're not just seeing the two decent-looking industrial buildings on this site repurposed with new infill construction between and around them. Neighborhood character needs to take back seat in cities with housing shortages, but in Cleveland, it's a little painful to see new projects pound the charm out of neighborhoods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viscomi Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 This is very much in the "it's fun to spend other people's money" category (h/t to KJP), but as much as I love the density boost here, a big part of me is sad we're not just seeing the two decent-looking industrial buildings on this site repurposed with new infill construction between and around them. Neighborhood character needs to take back seat in cities with housing shortages, but in Cleveland, it's a little painful to see new projects pound the charm out of neighborhoods. I had the exact same feelings. Some of those existing buildings could be re-used for structured parking too. I came up with a quick idea in my head for the site, maybe I can get it on paper. but ya, very unimaginative overall, and I agree with a poster up-thread that this stuff looks like a half step up from student housing that could be found anywhere usa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westlake10 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 I think there are some really good points made above. KJP is completely on-point in regard to the expense involved in hiding the parking structure. It's so easy to nitpick behind a computer screen and people act like developers just bathe in money and that these projects have a virtually unlimited budget. They don't. I also agree that it looks like freaking college housing. It's almost appropriate in a way however because most of the residents of the Edison for example have just graduated from college and still want that "college housing feel" (based on how fast the Edison leased out upon opening). Personally I think it is ill-befitting of the neighborhood and I'd love to see something a little more industrial looking or at the very least something pursuing a "capital A architecture" design aesthetic but who are we to say? None of us have done the types of studies or research that the developers have so let them do their thing with the land they purchased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayDay Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 "None of us have done the types of studies or research that the developers have so let them do their thing with the land they purchased." Although I'm not at liberty to disclose, I can assure you this forum has quite a few members who are in just about every aspect of the construction, development and real estate industries. http://www.clevelandskyscrapers.comhttps://www.instagram.com/clevelandskyscrapers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ML11 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Agree that the design is pretty meh, and the developer doesn't have a great track record (see: recent rent strike at its property in Beechwood.) I'm skeptical that Edison Phase I or II will be in great shape in ~10 years. I'd still rather have something in this location than what's there (or not there) right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJP Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Regarding the Detroit-Shoreway Apartments above, am I reading the schematics correctly that there's no ground-level retail? That seems like a bigger missed opportunity than the parking garage. If I'm reading the renderings correctly, the parking garage would have at least one storefront in it. Disregard...it's "storefront glazing." The front of the parking deck has a dog wash and bike storage/repair area. “What is the meaning of this city? Do you huddle close together because you love each other?” Or “We all dwell together to make money from each other”? -- TS Eliot’s The Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendo Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 The site plan and density look great (YO to the CLE was right), but the aesthetics of the project are pretty bad - a bunch of disparate materials, colors, and rooflines thrown together haphazardly. Sadly it fits in with the rest of the Edison project which looks cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w28th Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 ^Agreed. Terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westlake10 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 I agree with you guys above that the construction methods for the Edison (and I can only assume the Phase 2 addition) are not built to a 200 year standard. Look around at other projects and other cities for that matter in this area and you'll see much of the same. Columbus is probably the best example where there are plenty of housing communities very similar to the Edison. I'm obviously not a developer myself so I can't say with certainty what keeps these people from building more "lasting" structures but I can only assume they build what they can in the rent climate in which they are developing. Maybe if we were in NYC and an 800 SF unit was renting for $3600/mo then you'd see some higher end construction techniques and finishes but Cleveland is obviously not there and probably never will be. I can however say from first-hand experience that there are some select developers in Cleveland who really are building high quality residences that will stand the test of time. Some of these would include the Fairmont Creamery, The Shoreway in Battery Park, and W25th Lofts. Granted each of these projects utilized existing structures and built out from there so it is not totally analogous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJP Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Coverage.... Another set of lights to go on near Cleveland's Shoreway https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/another-set-lights-go-near-clevelands-shoreway NRP Group plans 323-unit apartment project in Cleveland's Detroit Shoreway neighborhood https://articles.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2018/10/nrp_group_plans_323-unit_apart.amp “What is the meaning of this city? Do you huddle close together because you love each other?” Or “We all dwell together to make money from each other”? -- TS Eliot’s The Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tastybunns Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 NOOOOOOOOO!! Not the premium metals!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoshSteve Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 I'm not really bothered by the "student housing" look. That seems to be the look that most new build non-premium rental is now days. But the garage is another story. Would it be much more difficult to position the garage inside the second building? Put it in the center with the apartments wrapped around it, instead of having a courtyard. The whole purpose of the courtyard is to give natural light to those units, and I would think being on the outside with a view would be a better option. They could probably get higher rents for exterior units too. I agree too that its strange it lacks any retail space. This, in addition to the first phase and directly adjacent townhouses should be enough to at least support a coffee shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clefan98 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 EDGEWATER HILL TOWNHOMES Return to Case List | Start Over | Print Report (PDF format) Project Information Near West Case # NW 2018-032 Address: West 73rd Street north of Detroit Company: Sixmo Architects Architect: Description: Proposed new 21-unit townhome development on West 73rd street. http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/brd/detailDR.php?ID=2991&CASE=NW 2018-032 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJP Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 In clicking on parcels, I can't figure out where this is going to be. “What is the meaning of this city? Do you huddle close together because you love each other?” Or “We all dwell together to make money from each other”? -- TS Eliot’s The Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ML11 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) Any way to tell where on West 73rd this is? The entire east side of the street is potentially re-developable... Edit Update: the Sixmo Architects site lists Battery Park as one of their recent projects, so it's possible this is just the plot that has already been cleared north of Battery Park Blvd? Edited October 8, 2018 by ML11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clefan98 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) ^ most likely Edited October 12, 2018 by Clefan98 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJP Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Aspen Place TOD from the Red Line, today..... 1 “What is the meaning of this city? Do you huddle close together because you love each other?” Or “We all dwell together to make money from each other”? -- TS Eliot’s The Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mu2010 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Looking good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJP Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) I didn't notice until now, but as of July of this year, the Big Egg restaurant has a new owner....sort of. It's actually a paper transfer using a corporate name that has owned this property in the past -- The Orient's Glory LLC. That company is owned by the Hamadeh family, namely Mazen and Haitham Hamadeh. The Orient's Glory is actually a Florida company, based out of the Orlando area. It has no Ohio registration. But what's actually different is that in July they added four more parcels to their portfolio here -- the two southernmost parcels of their parking lot along West 52nd as well as the two parcels forming an L to the SW of the intersection of Detroit and West 50th (edit-looks like the family bought these last two parcels in 2014). It will be interesting to see if this a development play or if they intend to sit on them as an investment. Across Detroit Avenue is Big Joe's Auto Sales, Detroit Auto Repair, and A1 Luxury Cars that's being targeted for housing. At least the eastern portion (A1) was acquired earlier this year by a company controlled by the Kertesz family. Some history of the Big Egg and the Hamadeh family: https://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/big-egg-on-its-face/Content?oid=1479001 Oops, I forgot to add the map.... Edited October 17, 2018 by KJP “What is the meaning of this city? Do you huddle close together because you love each other?” Or “We all dwell together to make money from each other”? -- TS Eliot’s The Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YABO713 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I hope it's a development play, my house is literally one parcel away from being in that image. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJP Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Party at Yabo's house tonight!! 1 “What is the meaning of this city? Do you huddle close together because you love each other?” Or “We all dwell together to make money from each other”? -- TS Eliot’s The Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YABO713 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, KJP said: Party at Yabo's house tonight!! Lol, HEAVILY under construction. I'm living in saw dust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJP Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) In reading the comments by Hamadeh in that Scene article, he's sounds like he's more of a talker than a doer, unfortunately. BTW, I'm surprised you have your property listed in your name (and EV's). Most attorneys I know have their assets listed to their spouse or an LLC and leave themselves invisible. Edited October 17, 2018 by KJP “What is the meaning of this city? Do you huddle close together because you love each other?” Or “We all dwell together to make money from each other”? -- TS Eliot’s The Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YABO713 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, KJP said: In reading the comments by Hamadeh in that Scene article, he's sounds like he's more of a talker than a doer, unfortunately. BTW, I'm surprised you have your property listed in your name. Most attorneys I know have their assets listed to their spouse or an LLC. He is a talker, I eat there 2-3x a week and last week I overheard “The CIA is planting evidence right now so the Communist Left can take over.” And I don’t do criminal, so no need really. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJP Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 OK, so he's nuts. Got it. Too bad. BTW, I hope that Brent Zimmerman has better luck developing your backyard than he has had in trying to get The Milton on Superior Ave. moving. Most attorneys I know aren't in criminal practice, just paranoid after decades of dealing with f*cked up people. 1 “What is the meaning of this city? Do you huddle close together because you love each other?” Or “We all dwell together to make money from each other”? -- TS Eliot’s The Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YABO713 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 To be fair, I bought knowing that things might move slowly. That's what a security system and german shepard are for though haha. Nonetheless, I've never seen anyone at that discount auto lot - employees or customers. I hope its inevitable that the development down Detroit connects Ohio City and Detroit Shoreway. My side of the street is OC, my neighbors across the street are DS, we even have different councilmen representing us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StapHanger Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I vaguely remember an article about that land assemblage a few months ago...unless I'm confusing it with another similar group of lots being marketed on the near west side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJP Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) Just now, YABO713 said: To be fair, I bought knowing that things might move slowly. That's what a security system and german shepard are for though haha. Nonetheless, I've never seen anyone at that discount auto lot - employees or customers. I hope its inevitable that the development down Detroit connects Ohio City and Detroit Shoreway. My side of the street is OC, my neighbors across the street are DS, we even have different councilmen representing us. Nah, I'm talking literally right behind your house. That property, used by American Industrial Rigging that has an entrance off West 48th, was bought by a company owned by Brent Zimmerman. See this post for more.... Edited October 17, 2018 by KJP “What is the meaning of this city? Do you huddle close together because you love each other?” Or “We all dwell together to make money from each other”? -- TS Eliot’s The Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YABO713 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Ha! We might butt heads when I put in my garage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendo Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 (edited) Here is a townhome project recently finished at the corner of at W.48th and Bridge. This has a nice street presence. I can't find the landmark/cpc pics but I know they were posted here at some point. Edit: Fixed typo. The Development is at 48th and Bridge, not 44th. Edited November 2, 2018 by Mendo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendo Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Also I don't think this was posted here before. 5 townhomes at the corner of Lorain and W.47th from Knez. https://www.knez.net/neighborhoods/forest-city-five-townhomes-7439 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jws Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 I still just do not understand how Knez fluctuates so rapidly between projects that are relatively graceful and projects that are actual nightmares. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendo Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 I wonder that myself. These should look pretty good but the ones just finished along Randall/Fulton Ct in the OC thread are awful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMB Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 like this one?https://www.knez.net/neighborhoods/the-nikolai-7168 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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