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Cincinnati: Pendleton: Development and News

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1 hour ago, troeros said:

Awesome news! Any clue which building Queen City Radio is trying to occupy?

 

It is the opposite corner as Three Points. Currently it's a residential unit on the ground floor but was probably a storefront historically.

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https://www.dropbox.com/s/rshemkwsciojw1q/2018.11.02_HistoricSubmission.pdf?dl=0

 

Proposal for a new apartment building on 12th.  5 stories, 4 floors of apartments with the first floor open air parking.  In addition, a new surface lot at the end of 12th at the intersection with Reading.  56 units, 54 parking spaces.

 

I like the density, but don't like the first floor parking, as the two garage doors will hurt the pedestrian nature of the street.  I hate that the undeveloped lot on the corner will be a surface lot.

 

Pendleton Council meeting tomorrow at 6 will vote on supporting it or not.  HCB meeting is 12-17-2018 at 3:00.  

 

I plan on going tomorrow, and suggesting that a garage should be built on the lot at 12th and Reading.  Then they can turn the first floor the building into apartments, and add another 10 units or so.  A three story garage on the that lot would give them all the parking they need.  Or they could make it 5 stories, and then rent out the rest of the spaces for other people on the street.

 

Does anyone else have any other or better ideas?

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I was used to work across the street from there and I always wondered how soon that lot would be developed. That one-story non-historic garage is used as Urban Sites' maintenance garage, and the lot next to it is used as overflow parking for their office building across the street (538 Reading). So they will need to find a way to meet the parking needs of both the new apartment building and their office building. The casino should start selling monthly passes and tap into the parking demand in that part of the neighborhood.

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This pace of development lately is nuts! 

 

I have to ask...is this because of FCC as a catalyst for these long abandoned lots to be developed...or is it because otr has finally, "arrived" so to speak. 

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Sycamore apartments was approved by HCB, but I haven't heard anything since then.

 

The Casino does sell monthly passes.  It is $40 for a spot in their surface lot.  They sell limited number of passes in their garage, but you can get on the wait list.

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3 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

In regards to this project. Is there any updates on the sycamore apartments?

 

The developer said they will apply for permits in January and will begin construction shortly after.

 

Regarding this new project, I'm not sure if ground floor retail is really necessary in this area of Pendelton. It's sort of an location that doesn't really have any type of retail/business district. 

 

I'm glad this project will be dense. 56 new residence in Pendelton is pretty sizeable. 

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Yes and no. It's great density IF and only if they don't include the surface lot. The surface lot is so large that this high density falls apart a bit.

I really don't see how that large surface lot is necessary. This size of unit caters to the carless or car-light crowd. This is the perfect opportunity for making use of the eliminated parking requirements.

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2 hours ago, jmicha said:

Yes and no. It's great density IF and only if they don't include the surface lot. The surface lot is so large that this high density falls apart a bit.

I really don't see how that large surface lot is necessary. This size of unit caters to the carless or car-light crowd. This is the perfect opportunity for making use of the eliminated parking requirements.

 

Let's be honest. These studio apartments will probably ranged in the $1,200 a month range. People are who throwing down that much cash a month will want a dedicated parking spot for that much money. I get it honestly. On street parking in Pendelton is getting more and more difficult to find nowadays as well. 

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9 hours ago, jmicha said:

Yes and no. It's great density IF and only if they don't include the surface lot. The surface lot is so large that this high density falls apart a bit.

I really don't see how that large surface lot is necessary. This size of unit caters to the carless or car-light crowd. This is the perfect opportunity for making use of the eliminated parking requirements.

Ideally, that empty lot at the corner of 12th/Reading would just be used temporarily as surface parking until Urban Sites redevelops it as well in the next few years. On the one hand, I know its naive to expect a surface lot to be built on quickly, but Urban Sites does seem to have the right idea when it comes to adding density to the neighborhood. I feel like if the 528 E 12th street project is a success, they'll want to replicate it in some way at the 600 E 12th parcel. 

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8 hours ago, troeros said:

 

Let's be honest. These studio apartments will probably ranged in the $1,200 a month range. People are who throwing down that much cash a month will want a dedicated parking spot for that much money. I get it honestly. On street parking in Pendelton is getting more and more difficult to find nowadays as well. 

I'm not so sure about that honestly. I lived on Race Street in Westfalen which had a similar unit count and had no dedicated parking and those were for-sale units ranging from studios to (I think) 3-bedrooms. You can find plenty of people who are either fine with no dedicated parking or no car at all. The price point is less the reason, and more the lifestyle of someone in a small unit.

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Anecdotally I have been hearing more grumbling about parking in Pendleton than I have about parking in OTR recently. I don't know if that's just because Pendleton is attracting residents and visitors who are new to urban settings so the lack of cheap/convenient parking is a newer concept to them.

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Units in Alumni Lofts cost a lot more than that and parking is still extra.  In an urban location like this, no matter the unit cost, there shouldn't be (and for the most part isn't) an expectation that parking is included in the rent.  

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By providing any on-site parking, it seems like UrbanSites is trying to be a good neighbor in Pendleton. The most consistent complaint in the community council meetings is concerning parking, so much so that it derails other productive topics. So I'm glad they're providing some.

 

I wonder if the added cost of replacing leasable space with parking ends up paying off with the extra amenity for car-owning potential renters, or if they end up taking a hit by putting in the parking....

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19 hours ago, troeros said:

This pace of development lately is nuts! 

 

I have to ask...is this because of FCC as a catalyst for these long abandoned lots to be developed...or is it because otr has finally, "arrived" so to speak. 

 

FCC has no impact on Pendelton 

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1 hour ago, troeros said:

The hcb has approved 528 E12TH ST

 

You do know that these are recommendations from city staff right?

 

The hearing for 528 E 12th is next Monday so nothing has been approved yet.

 

While I don't foresee any problems with this application, discussions and board opinions can change against staff recommendation.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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Just now, JYP said:

 

You do know that these are recommendations from city staff right?

 

The hearing for 528 E 12th is next Monday so nothing has been approved yet.

 

While I don't foresee any problems with this application, discussions and board opinions can change against staff recommendation.

 

Sure. But in my 4 years following hcb packets I have rarely ever seen the recommendation flipped from approve to deny. 

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7 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Sure. But in my 4 years following hcb packets I have rarely ever seen the recommendation flipped from approve to deny. 

 

It has happened a few times in the past 4 years. I have been involved in a few cases where the recommendation from the conservator was overturned for better or worse.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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4 minutes ago, JYP said:

 

It has happened a few times in the past 4 years. I have been involved in a few cases where the recommendation from the conservator was overturned for better or worse.

 

Hence the reason why I said, "rarely". It can happen but is rare that it does happen.

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On 12/12/2018 at 3:42 PM, troeros said:

The hcb has approved 528 E12TH ST. 

 

No. They have not.

 

Apartment project in Pendleton gets thumbs down

 

By Tom Demeropolis  – Senior Staff Reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier

 

A planned infill apartment project in Pendleton received a thumbs down from the Historic Conservation Board this week.

Urban Sites went to the board on Dec. 17 requesting zoning relief for a planned 56-unit apartment building at 528 E. 12th St. The board voted the project down 5 to 1.

Officials with Urban Sites could not be reached for comment.

 

historicdec17urbansites41.jpg

 

 


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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They did not really even give reasons... it has parking (even though minimums were eliminated and HCB should not speak to parking) and it within that silly one-story within the next building rule. "Its a big project - it did not receive excitement"...

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Yeah, “It certainly didn’t receive the board’s excitement” is not a valid reason for HCB to deny this project. Hopefully UrbanSites appeals this project as-is to the Zoning Board of Appeals.

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So frustrating.  If someone came in proposing a handful of single family townhomes here, that would probably get approved no problem.  But a project with nice density, nope.  

 

Also, the proposed infill project on Sycamore is currently being held up by an appeal from the OTRCC.  Even though that project is in Pendleton. 

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Many comments have been submitted to staff in regards to the “style” of the building and that the contemporary style is not appropriate for the neighborhood. The Over-theRhine Historic District Guidelines do not specify a style that is required. They outline elements of a building that the applicant should use to make the building contextual and compatible. There any many styles and ways to design a building to make it compatible with the guidelines and the applicant. The guidelines also specifically state the buildings should not replicate the historic buildings and accepted federal preservation philosophy as stated in the Secretary of the Interior’s Standards and reflected in our own guidelines, adheres to that principle. “The new work shall be differentiated from the old and shall be compatible with the massing, size, scale, and architectural features to protect the historic integrity of the property and its environment.” How new work is differentiated has often been debated whether it should be invention within the same style or abstract reference is the most appropriate response. In this application, the designers have chosen abstract reference and the applicants have provided a detailed and graphic oriented narrative as part of their proposal illustrating how they achieve contextuality.

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/december-17-2018-staff-report-and-attachments-item-5-only/

 

I think this comment on page 10 of the packet is illuminating in the denial. HCB probably was okay with the variances but wanted to take a stand on design in light of the submitted letters of opposition.

 

I think UrbanSites does have a case to appeal to the Board of Zoning Appeals based on the staff recommendation in the report. I would be interested in seeing the Boards letter of denial which probably will outline the HCB's findings in justifying the denial. Alternatively, they could submit for review with the OTR Foundations' Infill Committee for design guidance. 

 


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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How is it that the naysayers already know about these hearings and submit dozens of letters in opposition beforehand and people inclined to support growth never hear about things until after the review packet has been compiled or even after the hearing is over? 

Edited by thebillshark

www.cincinnatiideas.com

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12 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

How is it that the naysayers already know about these hearings and submit dozens of letters in opposition beforehand and people inclined to support growth never hear about things until after the review packet has been compiled or even after the hearing is over? 

Community council meetings. Also the city has “pre-hearing” conference meetings where they invite the community and the public for feedback on applications that go before the boards. They are advertised but not well. 


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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On 12/20/2018 at 10:55 AM, JYP said:

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/december-17-2018-staff-report-and-attachments-item-5-only/

 

I think this comment on page 10 of the packet is illuminating in the denial. HCB probably was okay with the variances but wanted to take a stand on design in light of the submitted letters of opposition.

 

I think UrbanSites does have a case to appeal to the Board of Zoning Appeals based on the staff recommendation in the report. I would be interested in seeing the Boards letter of denial which probably will outline the HCB's findings in justifying the denial. Alternatively, they could submit for review with the OTR Foundations' Infill Committee for design guidance. 

 

 

 

If style is an issue why not take a page from the Wood Companies in Columbus and make it a bit retro in design:

 

image.thumb.png.ae045ac9ccbc4f0903cff94772833982.png

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I think they should stick with the modern design and appeal the decision. Modern buildings that are authentically modern look better than modern buildings trying to be faux historic. There really is no valid reason for the HCB denial.

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I only wish some of these modern designs would explore a modern cornice. Kind of bummer when these buildings just unceremoniously terminate at a piece of flashing.

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