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Cleveland: Rockometer Proposal

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But the draw is the Rockometer, don't you see?  OK... now I'm almost back to not liking this.  That was fast.  I guess I'm ambivalent.

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Id rather see Skip's on the north side of the plaza with the entrance at the northwest corner and the outdoor dining actually on the lake. The walkway between the restaurant and the lake is fine, but i just think it should be closer to the lake.

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It does have a nice flare though, very colorful.  There is too much in Cleveland that is white or black or shades in between.  Nothing eye catching.  This could help with that.

 

Of course, this is coming from someone that was so excited to see those flaming E 4th statue pieces come about over the summer.  Colorful and interesting.  It's just something that is seldom seen downtown.

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It looks like something from the Cedar Point midway.  No thanks.

 

Exactly.  It's an "image" of a destination that is loved by all.  It's got a built in "safe" and "family friendly" mindset.

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Well, I wouldn't go too far with the family friendly component.  No further than is represented in that picture.  Family friendly works for tourism in a handful of fully-themed places, like Sandusky or Orlando, but it doesn't do well in a place where most of the entertainment targets adults--a place like Las Vegas or downtown Cleveland. 

 

I've never liked the placement of the rock hall or the science center, partially because they have two entirely different audiences.  There is no synergy to be gained from having them side by side.  My biggest reservation about this Rockometer is that it might further reduce the rock hall's legitimacy by over-sanitizing the subject matter.  I'm glad we have the science center downtown as a kid-friendly attraction, and we need more of them.  I just don't think they should be tied in with the rock hall.

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Well, I wouldn't go too far with the family friendly component.  No further than is represented in that picture.  Family friendly works for tourism in a handful of fully-themed places, like Sandusky or Orlando, but it doesn't do well in a place where most of the entertainment targets adults--a place like Las Vegas or downtown Cleveland. 

 

I've never liked the placement of the rock hall or the science center, partially because they have two entirely different audiences.  There is no synergy to be gained from having them side by side.  My biggest reservation about this Rockometer is that it might further reduce the rock hall's legitimacy by over-sanitizing the subject matter.  I'm glad we have the science center downtown as a kid-friendly attraction, and we need more of them.  I just don't think they should be tied in with the rock hall.

 

Ummm HELLO, that what this project should be.  changing attitudes and thinking outside the box.  Sheesh!  If you young folks can't see that...there is not hope! 

 

And having this venue next to the RNRHOF in no way reduces it's significance.  You're over analyzing things. LAWD!

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I think it's a good idea.  Beggers can't be overly-selective choosers. 

 

I do too.  Its a step into turning an area with potential into a hit.

 

When families come down and see how "safe" and how much fun their kids have, it changes their perception of the area.

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I don't think it's a case of being "overly selective choosers".  One of his selling points is a hot-grilled salad served with rock n' roll attitude.  This project would be an embarrassment located in such a prominent area.

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I don't think it's a case of being "overly selective choosers".  One of his selling points is a hot-grilled salad served with rock n' roll attitude.  This project would be an embarrassment located in such a prominent area.

 

How so???  The idea is fun and escapism. It's not meant to be serious.

 

Since you don't like this, what are you planning on building instead?

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My question is what would do better at this location?  This rockometer idea or an aquarium?  Should this land be reserved for a RRHOF spin off or would an aquarium be a good use of the land?

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I don't think a special event venue, which is what I understand the rockometer (awful name) to be, is a good idea.  Something that draws people all year round, like an aquarium, is a much better idea.  Then they visit the rock hall and the science center in one fell swoop.

 

Personally, I think it would be nice if something unique could be built, like a "science" center or "aquarium" but centered around farming, which is a big part of our state.  Imagine holding Farm Aid here.  *dreams*  Seems much more a good match for Ohio than pushing rock and roll, which doesn't really have that much to do with us, historically beyond one DJ.  I mean, do we have a musical rock history like Nashville or Chicago blues or whatever?  No.  Yes, a lot of great bands and musicians have come from here, but it's not like when people think of country music and think Nashville, so I say marry the two - music and what we really can still be known for, our agriculture, and make it farm-oriented. 

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I actually like the legacy plaza idea, but I think the rockometer thing is a little ridiculous.  It would be neat to have some rock themed shops and a bar/grill right on the lake with a boardwalk/plaza and a little performance stage.  It could lead to some great events in the summer months.  I think these items would be perfect along the walkway between the rock hall and the science center.  They could face the lake and give people from both attractions shops to visit and a place to eat on the lake.  You could then build a performance stage facing the rock hall plaza where various bands could perform on summer weekends.  Then put the aquarium where they want to put the rockometer.

 

Probably all pipe dreams, but fun to think about anyway.

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I'm sorry, but this thing is just, I don't know... stupid. It doesn't even deserve a serious response.

 

I don't know if it's stupid as much as it's tacky. Why does Cleveland have to settle for something like this on prime lakefront land? I know I'm making judgments based on very preliminary sketches, but I do not have faith in these guys to put together something great based on their crappy website. Something like this belongs in Wildwood, NJ, not in Cleveland.

 

I would much rather see this area become a mini-museum destination, with an aquarium or something more along those lines .. kinda like in Chicago.

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Personally I'm sick of placing museums and other attractions along the lakefront that have little to no effect on downtown core foot traffic.  Just because Baltimore put an aquarium on their waterfront doesn't mean that it absolutley should go there.  The lakefront should be left for residential and mixed use development, not singular buildings that could really be more successful in other areas.

Not sure what the problem is with putting these assets in the middle of the city to create overlapping and consistent foot traffic to utilize what is already there.  Look at cities like Florence Italy or New York City, their museums are all part of the urban fabric, where tourists intermingle with residents and others just going about their daily life.  I can only imagine how much more successful this city would be if the museums of University Circle and the lakefront were a part of Downtown.

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Personally I'm sick of placing museums and other attractions along the lakefront that have little to no effect on downtown core foot traffic.  Just because Baltimore put an aquarium on their waterfront doesn't mean that it absolutley should go there.  The lakefront should be left for residential and mixed use development, not singular buildings that could really be more successful in other areas.

Not sure what the problem is with putting these assets in the middle of the city to create overlapping and consistent foot traffic to utilize what is already there.  Look at cities like Florence Italy or New York City, their museums are all part of the urban fabric, where tourists intermingle with residents and others just going about their daily life.  I can only imagine how much more successful this city would be if the museums of University Circle and the lakefront were a part of Downtown.

 

Agreed, although I like having the strong second node at UC.  However the lakefront should have neighborhoods and the attractions should all be more central.

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ive said from the beginning its a great idea. building some sort of visible venue could really attract some national attention to the area especially because the rock hall is like the one image everyone see's of cleveland.

 

however.. the architecture neeeeeeds to be more serious. i feel like they havent really hired an architect yet though.

 

the basic concept deserves consideration.

 

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I think it is a good idea that would attract more families.  You state it has a .01% chance of going forward, but I think the chances of residential developments along the lakefront is less.  Furthermore, if it occupies a space near the Rock Hall, would that really be an area where residences would be built? 

 

Also, look at FEB proposal, everything there was included within the confines.  Thus, I believe if residences are built along the lake, they would include all the amenities needed.  I really do not think building the Rockomter would stifle an increase in downtown foot traffic. 

 

Tacky, I agree.  But I really don't care.  Where else would you put this thing?  On that wasted land around E.9th & Orange?  Why would you not put an outdoor venue near the lake?  Hell, there have been like two outdoor venues built on the Cuyahoga.  People like seeing water and it makes the project more attractive.  Not sure about you, but I think a Rockometer (yes, name needs to be changed) on Lake Erie is a lot more appealing than anywhere else.

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I don't think it's a case of being "overly selective choosers".  One of his selling points is a hot-grilled salad served with rock n' roll attitude.  This project would be an embarrassment located in such a prominent area.

 

Absolutely no basis that it would be an embarrassment.  What, even more than the dilapidated factories and projects that currently dot the coast line?

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I would much rather see an aquarium built in this space than whatever this is supposed to be.  I know we are all going off the renderings that are very preliminary, but seriously a giant Jukebox??  Ridiculous.

 

The "Legacy Plaza" part is a much better idea, and maybe do that instead.  Cincinnati, well Newport, put their aquarium right on the riverfront.  That was a part of a larger project though.  And this space is not that big.  But incorporating the Legacy Plaza with an aquarium would make this much more of a destination area.  You could go to the IMAX at the Science Center, a show/exhibit at the RRHOF, grab lunch at the Plaza and then go see the fishes!

 

P.S. would the idea of having a Walleye sandwich be a little odd after being in the aquarium?

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^Hardly, my family has a running joke about my mom ordering a fish sandwich in the old Cleveland aquarium's cafeteria - she was in plain sight of the giant grouper that was front and center by the entrance. The poor thing just kept *staring* at her...  :cry:

 

Anyway, I have to agree that certain components of this project have promise - I'd love to see a restaurant/public space that offers a deck/boardwalk/waterfront view the way Shooters is able to have in the Flats.

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Personally I'm sick of placing museums and other attractions along the lakefront that have little to no effect on downtown core foot traffic. Just because Baltimore put an aquarium on their waterfront doesn't mean that it absolutley should go there. The lakefront should be left for residential and mixed use development, not singular buildings that could really be more successful in other areas.

 

Agreed 100%. 

 

I'm not against the uses presented here, but lets have a little more of a vision for how to get the most out of our Downtown Lakefront, instead of a 1 story stripmall, a concert venue, and a surface parking lot disguised as a plaza.

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Personally I'm sick of placing museums and other attractions along the lakefront that have little to no effect on downtown core foot traffic. Just because Baltimore put an aquarium on their waterfront doesn't mean that it absolutley should go there. The lakefront should be left for residential and mixed use development, not singular buildings that could really be more successful in other areas.

 

Agreed 100%.

 

I'm not against the uses presented here, but lets have a little more of a vision for how to get the most out of our Downtown Lakefront, instead of a 1 story stripmall, a concert venue, and a surface parking lot disguised as a plaza.

 

IMO, it makes a lot of sense to put an aquarium on the lakefront so the lake can be incorporated into some of the exhibits.

 

I love the idea of developing this parcel, but am not a fan of the renderings/proposals I have seen.  To be clear, I am not totally against the idea.  I like the fact that it would have a natural connection to the RRHOF.

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I just visited the rockometer website and kinda of lol'd on myself.  at first I thought, maybe this is real.  after watching the intro I am sure this must be a joke. 

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I just visited the rockometer website and kinda of lol'd on myself.

 

First off, I will always get excited when I hear "Cleveland Rocks."  But he seriously needs someone to do his marketing or PR or something.  The presentation of this project is poor.  If he took this to the city, it's no surprise they wouldn't endorse it.

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First off, I will always get excited when I hear "Cleveland Rocks."  But he seriously needs someone to do his marketing or PR or something.  The presentation of this project is poor.  If he took this to the city, it's no surprise they wouldn't endorse it.

 

At this point I would have to agree.  I rank this idea just above the "Jump to Conclusions Mat"

 

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http://www.cleveland.com/arts/index.ssf/2009/05/christopher_axelrods_vision_fo.html

 

 

Christopher Axelrod's vision for a 'Rockometer' entertainment complex in Cleveland

by Michael Heaton/Plain Dealer Reporter

Friday May 01, 2009, 11:18 PM

 

 

Christopher Axelrod has a vision for Cleveland's lakefront.

 

In it, "The Rockometer" shines like a beacon at the far north end of East Ninth Street, just east of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum.

 

Part entertainment complex, part banquet space, Axelrod sees his Rockometer as the missing link, the complex that will tie the entire East Ninth lakefront scene together. He envisions it as a giant, rainbow-colored building with giant video screens on the front, where crowds from the Rock Hall, the Science Center and the Mather Museum will converge to hang out, dine and shop at an accompanying retail area, dubbed Music Legacy Plaza.

 

It's a grand plan, one he has outlined in a slick Web site (rockometer.com) and professionally printed press kit...

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If this is built as the rendering suggests, it would be embarrassing.

It would be cheesy like coney island. 

 

However, is bad design, on a project in a touristy area, better than nothing?  I would rather having something there that helps change perceptions and draws visitors and residents downtown than nothing.

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What if it changes perceptions in an even more negative way?

 

Personally, the problem I have with it is I just wish it was a giant jukebox as pop art. Don't make it into a big conference center and retail plaza and restaurant and switchblade and corkscrew and screwdriver.

 

I don't know how one would make money off of just that .. but this plan is pretty horrible overall.

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If this is built as the rendering suggests, it would be embarrassing.

It would be cheesy like coney island.

 

However, is bad design, on a project in a touristy area, better than nothing? I would rather having something there that helps change perceptions and draws visitors and residents downtown than nothing.

 

No, not better than nothing.  It's a big dumb pile of dumb.  It will make people think we don't get rock and didn't deserve the rock hall.  I really want the city to build on its musical heritage, and on the rock hall itself, but this is the wrong way to go about it. 

 

And did that article refer to accomodating "crowds" from the Mather museum?  Mr. Axelrod may not fully understand the dynamics of his chosen site.  There's nothing down there to sustain any sort of crowd, not on a non-Browns day.  Maybe once the CC is fully integrated with the lakefront, there could be enough spillover to sustain a complex like this.  Or maybe once significant residential is constructed down there.  Until then I can't see who would be going to this.

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