Florida Guy Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I give this a .01% chance of ever moving forward. That is about .01% more than I would give it. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanScav Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 ive said from the beginning its a great idea. building some sort of visible venue could really attract some national attention to the area especially because the rock hall is like the one image everyone see's of cleveland. however.. the architecture neeeeeeds to be more serious. i feel like they havent really hired an architect yet though. the basic concept deserves consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palijandro7 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I think it is a good idea that would attract more families. You state it has a .01% chance of going forward, but I think the chances of residential developments along the lakefront is less. Furthermore, if it occupies a space near the Rock Hall, would that really be an area where residences would be built? Also, look at FEB proposal, everything there was included within the confines. Thus, I believe if residences are built along the lake, they would include all the amenities needed. I really do not think building the Rockomter would stifle an increase in downtown foot traffic. Tacky, I agree. But I really don't care. Where else would you put this thing? On that wasted land around E.9th & Orange? Why would you not put an outdoor venue near the lake? Hell, there have been like two outdoor venues built on the Cuyahoga. People like seeing water and it makes the project more attractive. Not sure about you, but I think a Rockometer (yes, name needs to be changed) on Lake Erie is a lot more appealing than anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palijandro7 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I don't think it's a case of being "overly selective choosers". One of his selling points is a hot-grilled salad served with rock n' roll attitude. This project would be an embarrassment located in such a prominent area. Absolutely no basis that it would be an embarrassment. What, even more than the dilapidated factories and projects that currently dot the coast line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedders55 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I would much rather see an aquarium built in this space than whatever this is supposed to be. I know we are all going off the renderings that are very preliminary, but seriously a giant Jukebox?? Ridiculous. The "Legacy Plaza" part is a much better idea, and maybe do that instead. Cincinnati, well Newport, put their aquarium right on the riverfront. That was a part of a larger project though. And this space is not that big. But incorporating the Legacy Plaza with an aquarium would make this much more of a destination area. You could go to the IMAX at the Science Center, a show/exhibit at the RRHOF, grab lunch at the Plaza and then go see the fishes! P.S. would the idea of having a Walleye sandwich be a little odd after being in the aquarium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayDay Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 ^Hardly, my family has a running joke about my mom ordering a fish sandwich in the old Cleveland aquarium's cafeteria - she was in plain sight of the giant grouper that was front and center by the entrance. The poor thing just kept *staring* at her... :cry: Anyway, I have to agree that certain components of this project have promise - I'd love to see a restaurant/public space that offers a deck/boardwalk/waterfront view the way Shooters is able to have in the Flats. http://www.clevelandskyscrapers.comhttps://www.instagram.com/clevelandskyscrapers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningTheft Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Tacky, I agree. But I really don't care. Where else would you put this thing? Um, how about nowhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyTwoSense Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Tacky, I agree. But I really don't care. Where else would you put this thing? Um, how about nowhere? Ummm...How about TC, they claim to have the space! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Personally I'm sick of placing museums and other attractions along the lakefront that have little to no effect on downtown core foot traffic. Just because Baltimore put an aquarium on their waterfront doesn't mean that it absolutley should go there. The lakefront should be left for residential and mixed use development, not singular buildings that could really be more successful in other areas. Agreed 100%. I'm not against the uses presented here, but lets have a little more of a vision for how to get the most out of our Downtown Lakefront, instead of a 1 story stripmall, a concert venue, and a surface parking lot disguised as a plaza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hts121 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Personally I'm sick of placing museums and other attractions along the lakefront that have little to no effect on downtown core foot traffic. Just because Baltimore put an aquarium on their waterfront doesn't mean that it absolutley should go there. The lakefront should be left for residential and mixed use development, not singular buildings that could really be more successful in other areas. Agreed 100%. I'm not against the uses presented here, but lets have a little more of a vision for how to get the most out of our Downtown Lakefront, instead of a 1 story stripmall, a concert venue, and a surface parking lot disguised as a plaza. IMO, it makes a lot of sense to put an aquarium on the lakefront so the lake can be incorporated into some of the exhibits. I love the idea of developing this parcel, but am not a fan of the renderings/proposals I have seen. To be clear, I am not totally against the idea. I like the fact that it would have a natural connection to the RRHOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
math Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I just visited the rockometer website and kinda of lol'd on myself. at first I thought, maybe this is real. after watching the intro I am sure this must be a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseballmn907 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I just visited the rockometer website and kinda of lol'd on myself. First off, I will always get excited when I hear "Cleveland Rocks." But he seriously needs someone to do his marketing or PR or something. The presentation of this project is poor. If he took this to the city, it's no surprise they wouldn't endorse it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matches Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 First off, I will always get excited when I hear "Cleveland Rocks." But he seriously needs someone to do his marketing or PR or something. The presentation of this project is poor. If he took this to the city, it's no surprise they wouldn't endorse it. At this point I would have to agree. I rank this idea just above the "Jump to Conclusions Mat" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerrariEnzo Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 ^hahahahahhahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palijandro7 Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 http://www.cleveland.com/arts/index.ssf/2009/05/christopher_axelrods_vision_fo.html Christopher Axelrod's vision for a 'Rockometer' entertainment complex in Cleveland by Michael Heaton/Plain Dealer Reporter Friday May 01, 2009, 11:18 PM Christopher Axelrod has a vision for Cleveland's lakefront. In it, "The Rockometer" shines like a beacon at the far north end of East Ninth Street, just east of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum. Part entertainment complex, part banquet space, Axelrod sees his Rockometer as the missing link, the complex that will tie the entire East Ninth lakefront scene together. He envisions it as a giant, rainbow-colored building with giant video screens on the front, where crowds from the Rock Hall, the Science Center and the Mather Museum will converge to hang out, dine and shop at an accompanying retail area, dubbed Music Legacy Plaza. It's a grand plan, one he has outlined in a slick Web site (rockometer.com) and professionally printed press kit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3231 Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 If this is built as the rendering suggests, it would be embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpop Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 It would. Everything about his pitch and idea reeks of my dad trying to use slang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyTwoSense Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 If this is built as the rendering suggests, it would be embarrassing. It would be cheesy like coney island. However, is bad design, on a project in a touristy area, better than nothing? I would rather having something there that helps change perceptions and draws visitors and residents downtown than nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpop Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 What if it changes perceptions in an even more negative way? Personally, the problem I have with it is I just wish it was a giant jukebox as pop art. Don't make it into a big conference center and retail plaza and restaurant and switchblade and corkscrew and screwdriver. I don't know how one would make money off of just that .. but this plan is pretty horrible overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
327 Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 If this is built as the rendering suggests, it would be embarrassing. It would be cheesy like coney island. However, is bad design, on a project in a touristy area, better than nothing? I would rather having something there that helps change perceptions and draws visitors and residents downtown than nothing. No, not better than nothing. It's a big dumb pile of dumb. It will make people think we don't get rock and didn't deserve the rock hall. I really want the city to build on its musical heritage, and on the rock hall itself, but this is the wrong way to go about it. And did that article refer to accomodating "crowds" from the Mather museum? Mr. Axelrod may not fully understand the dynamics of his chosen site. There's nothing down there to sustain any sort of crowd, not on a non-Browns day. Maybe once the CC is fully integrated with the lakefront, there could be enough spillover to sustain a complex like this. Or maybe once significant residential is constructed down there. Until then I can't see who would be going to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctabroccoli Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 If this is built as the rendering suggests, it would be embarrassing. It would be cheesy like coney island. However, is bad design, on a project in a touristy area, better than nothing? I would rather having something there that helps change perceptions and draws visitors and residents downtown than nothing. No, not better than nothing. It's a big dumb pile of dumb. It will make people think we don't get rock and didn't deserve the rock hall. I really want the city to build on its musical heritage, and on the rock hall itself, but this is the wrong way to go about it. And did that article refer to accomodating "crowds" from the Mather museum? Mr. Axelrod may not fully understand the dynamics of his chosen site. There's nothing down there to sustain any sort of crowd, not on a non-Browns day. Maybe once the CC is fully integrated with the lakefront, there could be enough spillover to sustain a complex like this. Or maybe once significant residential is constructed down there. Until then I can't see who would be going to this. I think that land could be pretty Navy Pier-esque if done properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumsquare Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 How the hell did this project resurrect itself? How did this story get in a major American newspaper? Why would we build a Carrie Cerino's on the lakefront? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyTwoSense Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 How the hell did this project resurrect itself? How did this story get in a major American newspaper? Why would we build a Carrie Cerino's on the lakefront? Key words "major" and "newspaper"! This is the Plain Dealer you're talking about! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpop Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I really think this is a ridiculous story for the PD to be covering, too. There are people dying of starvation. Wars being fought. More important things happening elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brtshrcegr Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I really think this is a ridiculous story for the PD to be covering, too. There are people dying of starvation. Wars being fought. More important things happening elsewhere. Tread carefully here...by that reasoning, why should the PD cover any of the development projects or proposals around town? I agree that this thing is a cheeseball and a half, and I know that as-of last fall, the Coast Guard had NO intention on moving from that land. However, what did catch my attention in that last article was Axelrod's comment on making this place the new Landerhaven. I think it would be GREAT if we could attract the type of events that Landerhaven hosts to a first-rate events center downtown. And when (if) the port finally moves to E 55th, why not have the Coast Guard join them down there, especially if they're planning on rebuilding their infrastructure anyway. Then maybe this would be the right place for a world-class event space, maybe even with elements or the spirit of the Rockometer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
327 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Good catch, I didn't notice that point in the article. But I don't see the Landerhaven crowd showing up at a Rockometer to do their Landerhavening. We'd need to build something a little classier for that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyTwoSense Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Good catch, I didn't notice that point in the article. But I don't see the Landerhaven crowd showing up at a Rockometer to do their Landerhavening. We'd need to build something a little classier for that to happen. UGH! Where do you get these "assumptions". It's a building the FUNCTION inside is what people will care about. This is ridiculous all this talk about a damn proposal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w28th Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 That's what this site is for: discussing goings on and possible goings on in Ohio. Am I wrong on this assumption? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
327 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 It's not assumptions, it's analysis, and maybe I'm wrong. What sort of talk about a proposal would be more fitting? It's a proposal. It was put out for comment. Banquets and such aren't too different from conventions, in the sense that the attendees don't select the venue. Unless the event is for kids, I can't imagine many going to this type of venue over Landerhaven. Again, maybe I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyTwoSense Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 It's not assumptions, it's analysis, and maybe I'm wrong. What sort of talk about a proposal would be more fitting? It's a proposal. It was put out for comment. Banquets and such aren't too different from conventions, in the sense that the attendees don't select the venue. Unless the event is for kids, I can't imagine many going to this type of venue over Landerhaven. Again, maybe I'm wrong. thank you for saying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
327 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Your turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizbiz Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 The reason there is no crowd down there to sustain the Rockometer is because there is nothing down there to sustain a crowd. The Rockometer would bring and keep people down there, whereas, complaining how ugly, stupid, and un-purposeful it is, will continue to make the harbor a dead zone. Sometimes the best way to bring life into a neighborhood is to come up with a wild idea that will actually create news, sensation, and a vibe - then the spin-off development is what comes in and really changes things. Just look to E. 4th and recall how many thought a "martini bowling alley was stupid" and now look what E. 4th is. North Coast Harbor should be the hottest spot in Cleveland. And when I say North Coast Harbor, I mean the entire area north of Lakeside between W. 2nd and E. 12th. We often hear about how Burke should be closed and turned into prime lakefront real estate. Yet, we have the Muni parking lots that could easily be turned into prime real estate but we are too busy complaining about the airport to see that all those surface lots could be combined into 1 parking deck and all that land could be used more than 8 times a year, or whenever the Clinic needs pushover parking. That is some of the best land and yet no one ever talks of developing it. In Toronto, there are big things happening in a new district on former wasted land exactly like the Muni lot. The same applies to North Coast Harbor. Let's stop pretending a Rockometer is only possible when the government land is re-located. The guy who wants Rockometer can build this nearby for a lot less than 100 million. And so he has an idea. Let's support him and correct his mistakes if we think it's ugly, but let's not try to dismiss it because he is a citizen with an idea for the city and not a bottomless pocketed developer looking for more money to line his already bottomless pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam40jeff Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I don't recall anybody thinking a martini bowling alley was as tacky, cheesy, or stupid as this abomination. I think you're right to an extent, but there still should be limits as to what we'll build to attract people. I'm sure a big Chuck E. Cheese would attract people down there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizbiz Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 "Martini and bowling? Who will want to do that?" "A bowling alley where people drink martini's and watch others bowl, haha hahahahhahaha." "Another stupid idea in Cleveland." Maybe it's not all over Urban Ohio's E. 4th discussion, circa 2006, but hell, it was all I recall hearing when the project was announced. Of course, it's now the entrance to the hottest street in Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam40jeff Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I don't recall hearing many comments like that. Maybe on cleveland.com. But this is not the cleveland.com crowd here that doesn't like this proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCleveland Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 it's not the concept of the rockometer is terrible... it's that his current vision of how this place looks is terrible. Of course that is what you get for spending $35,000 marketing your proposal without so much as consulting an architect. I'll support this guy for trying to make something happen, when he presents me with something that doesn't look like something out of the care bears cloud city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
327 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Good points all. I had predicted Corner Alley would fail. I underestimated the pull bowling could have on an upscale crowd. So I think the analogy is a good one, and it does make me wonder if I'm wrong about this project too. Although... it does seem a step beyond Corner Alley in terms of risk. Corner Alley is in a stately old building, surrounded by several others similarly renovated, which I think gave it some room for experimentation. This would be new construction on the lakefront. It's tacky in every way, top to bottom, rather than being a normal bar with a tacky-chic hook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizbiz Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I don't think the Rockometer is "awesome". What I think is awesome is that a guy has an idea and it is making the news. That this guy is willing to spend 35k of his own money to do studies. The end result may be a large developer buying his idea or the realization by the city or someone with the power to make it happen, making better use of the land, be it a Rockometer, a new-Landerhaven, or just something more than a fenced off "government building". I would love to see some retail, restaurants, and even a hotel down there. Right now, that's non-existent, north of Lakeside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCleveland Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 oh... and for the record, his music legacy plaza, is a significantly better idea than the actual rockometer which is another indoor concert / banquet type facility... of which we actually have several of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
327 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I don't think the Rockometer is "awesome". What I think is awesome is that a guy has an idea and it is making the news. That this guy is willing to spend 35k of his own money to do studies. The end result may be a large developer buying his idea or the realization by the city or someone with the power to make it happen, making better use of the land, be it a Rockometer, a new-Landerhaven, or just something more than a fenced off "government building". I would love to see some retail, restaurants, and even a hotel down there. Right now, that's non-existent, north of Lakeside. You're making a lot of sense. No reason to get hung up on the appearance at this stage-- it's more about the concept. I'm a little squeamish on the concept too, but it has enough potential it shouldn't be so easily dismissed. Enthusiasm alone can't make a bad idea good (see: mountain bike park in midtown)... however this idea has some merit and the guy's enthusiasm should count for something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedders55 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 ^I always thought that part had the most potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whipjacka Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 dude still updates his facebook. Seems pretty bitter. http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Rockometer/64045077446?sk=wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyboy Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Yeah. Odd he's talking about it one month as if it may still happen and then the next month he realizes a new Coast Gaurd station is going up. The new Coast Gaurd building has been in the works for that spot for some time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clefan98 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 someone should tell him it's the best dumbest idea ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ93 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 That's a shame. I was looking forward to the meeting between Steve Jobs and Frank Jackson. Steve: Your beard is magnificent, Mr. Mayor Frank: As is your mock turtleneck. Steve: I love you. I will be moving Apple to Cleveland immediately. [they embrace] and scene! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldmanladyluck Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Cheesiest idea EVER- for what what is there now and what will be our grand lakefront. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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