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Bring them home from Iraq

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Forget it. We've still got troops in Germany and Korea. We're going to be in Iraq and Afghanistan well into the 2100s.

 

Double bingo

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Some 50,000 of 65,000 US troops currently in Iraq are set to remain until the end of 2011 to advise Iraqi forces and protect US interests.

 

Mr Obama proclaimed that the end of operations would arrive "as promised and on schedule".  It comes amid a dispute between the US and Baghdad over the latest casualty numbers in Iraq.

 

The thrust of Mr Obama's speech was the fulfilment of his campaign promise to end the Iraq war, which was a defining characteristic of his 2008 candidacy.  Mr Obama made his announcement in a speech to the national convention of the Disabled American Veterans in Atlanta, Georgia.

 

The remaining 50,000 troops will stay in the country in order to train Iraqi security forces, conduct counterterrorism operations and provide civilians with ongoing security, said Mr Obama.

 

An agreement negotiated with the Iraqis in 2008 states that these troops must be gone from the country by the end of next year.

...edit...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10839342

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Isn't it funny how ever since Obama took office that the outcry to bring the troops home has become virtually silent? I wonder why. Is Code Pink on sabbatical?

Hey Don, apparently you didn't get the message that "they are coming home". It is in the article that I posted at the top of the page. The posting right before you posted

 

 

They are not comming home.  50,000 is a lot of people.  They are going to be there indefinately just like Mad Man John McCain said they would be.  At least he was honest about it. 

 

This is just a re-definition of "comming home".  Obama has broken his promise of "ending this war" and the Left is complicit in this partisan disembling.  Shame on them.

 

As much as I think Dennis Kucinick is wrong about most things, I sometimes wonder if he is the only honest Democrat in the House.

 

Oh, and nobody is going to "come home" from Afganistan either. 

 

 

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I'm still confused as to what the heck "the mission" was in the first place.... that is, other than the ulterior motive of establishing a military presence on both sides of Iran.

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-weigant/obamas-iraq-withdrawal-ti_b_668173.html

 

He is staying true to the promises he previously made.  All "combat troops" will be home by the end of August.  The rest will be there until the end of 2011.  The Huffington Post agrees.

 

So once again, what's your solution (other than following the Party of No mentality)?

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Your solution?

 

Don't say everyone is coming home when they aren't.

 

That wasn't the 'problem' I was referring to.  You have to realize that not everyone's life revolves around trying to find faults in our President.  I was talking about the solution to the mess we have created in Iraq.  But, since you brought it up, do you have a quote where President Obama says that "everyone is coming home"?  When he took office, he said he wanted the combat troops removed by September 2010.  He has failed to achieve that goal and it is fair to criticize him for not meeting his goal.... as long as you can explain how, now in hindsight, he could have responsibly done so. 

 

I get confused what conservatives want these days (other than for Obama to fail, of course).  Should he make a hasty withdraw of all troops, even those intended to maintain order after the combat troops pull out?  Should he put in for another surge that (despire the cost) the financially frugal right was all in favor of?  Should he drop a nuke?  Or..... should we just wait for him to make a decision so that we know which position (in opposition) we should take?  It is all so dizzying, I have no idea how you keep your head on straight.

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When he took office, he said he wanted the combat troops removed by September 2010. He has failed to achieve that goal and it is fair to criticize him for not meeting his goal.... as long as you can explain how, now in hindsight, he could have responsibly done so.

 

Actually, he will have met this goal. All that will be left after the end of August will be the 50,000 non-combat troops which are allowed to stay there until the end of 2011 per the agreement made with Iraq.

 

Should he drop a nuke? Or..... should we just wait for him to make a decision so that we know which position (in opposition) we should take?

 

Those last two you mentioned are about the only positions I have heard out of Republicans lately (and mostly the latter).

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This is Obama's "Mission Accomplished" moment.

 

 

The problem is the Left won't call him on it (in return for "free" social services) and the Right is getting what it wants. 

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I'm still confused as to what the heck "the mission" was in the first place.... that is, other than the ulterior motive of establishing a military presence on both sides of Iran.

 

 

It wasn't an ulterior motive.  It was the motive front and center.  The Left fell for the Right's War for Oil trap and took thier eye off the ball.  Thier eye is still off the ball as Obama ramps up the war machine. 

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-weigant/obamas-iraq-withdrawal-ti_b_668173.html

 

He is staying true to the promises he previously made. All "combat troops" will be home by the end of August. The rest will be there until the end of 2011. The Huffington Post agrees.

 

So once again, what's your solution (other than following the Party of No mentality)?

 

That wasn't the promise he made in the primaries when he got all the Hillary voters to switch thier vote to him by being more dovish than Hillary.

 

Suckers!

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Your solution?

 

Don't say everyone is coming home when they aren't.

 

That wasn't the 'problem' I was referring to.  You have to realize that not everyone's life revolves around trying to find faults in our President.  I was talking about the solution to the mess we have created in Iraq.  But, since you brought it up, do you have a quote where President Obama says that "everyone is coming home"?  When he took office, he said he wanted the combat troops removed by September 2010.  He has failed to achieve that goal and it is fair to criticize him for not meeting his goal.... as long as you can explain how, now in hindsight, he could have responsibly done so. 

 

I get confused what conservatives want these days (other than for Obama to fail, of course).  Should he make a hasty withdraw of all troops, even those intended to maintain order after the combat troops pull out?  Should he put in for another surge that (despire the cost) the financially frugal right was all in favor of?  Should he drop a nuke?  Or..... should we just wait for him to make a decision so that we know which position (in opposition) we should take?  It is all so dizzying, I have no idea how you keep your head on straight.

 

 

Hts, don't you get it? There is no solution any more than there is a solution for Korea, Germany and Japan.  We are staying their forever. 

 

Got it? Forever. 

 

Democrat, Republican doesn't matter.  Forever.

 

 

You are confused about "conservatives"? Really? Let me explain it to you.  An American base in every country and a chicken in every pot.  The final melding of FDR and Ronald Regan.  That is what "conservatives have become. 

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^^At least your honest ;)......

 

^Albeit delusional

 

Deluded about what? I mean I know I am deluded but which particular delusion are you refering to? That we are not leaving Iraq, ever? That delusion?

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Not forever, Tedolph.  The Iraqi government wants us out of their country and there is no UN resolution that we can use to justify staying.

 

And, to put a finer point on it, Obama is meeting his promise to get us out of Iraq.  I am impressed that he could prevail despite the huge challenges.

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^^^That didn't help.  Now I am even more confused than before.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-weigant/obamas-iraq-withdrawal-ti_b_668173.html

 

He is staying true to the promises he previously made.  All "combat troops" will be home by the end of August.  The rest will be there until the end of 2011.  The Huffington Post agrees.

 

So once again, what's your solution (other than following the Party of No mentality)?

 

That wasn't the promise he made in the primaries when he got all the Hillary voters to switch thier vote to him by being more dovish than Hillary.

 

Suckers!

 

Quote?

 

 

^^At least your honest ;)......

 

^Albeit delusional

 

Deluded about what? I mean I know I am deluded but which particular delusion are you refering to? That we are not leaving Iraq, ever? That delusion?

 

You need a lesson in - http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,23836.0.html

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The U.S. has spent way too much money building up bases to just up and leave. We will be there for a while. Bases in Iraq will become normal duty stations just like the one established in Qatar. As long as the U.S. hands out money for an established presence, Iraq will allow it.

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I don't think anyone denies that there will be some sort of permanent military presence in Iraq.  Some would argue that is why we invaded in the first place.  In terms of military strategy and the modern world, Iraq is a key strategic location to have military bases.  However, I also don't think that anyone would not agree that the cost of the combat operations, both in terms of human lives, money spent (not even considering the endless benefits payments we have imposed on future generations) and domestic/international backlash, it took to get us there is utterly unacceptable.  Combat operations will cease.  Combat troops will come home.  That is all the President ever promised... save for the fact that he did not meet the timeline he proposed when he was a candidate.

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This is Obama's "Mission Accomplished" moment. 

 

Won't we have to wait until the end of 2011 to be the judge of that?

 

I stand corrected, though I suspect that those remaining in country will still be engaging in "combat," whatever your definition may be.

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Not forever, Tedolph. The Iraqi government wants us out of their country and there is no UN resolution that we can use to justify staying.

 

And, to put a finer point on it, Obama is meeting his promise to get us out of Iraq. I am impressed that he could prevail despite the huge challenges.

 

Sigh.  The Iraqi government likes all the money the bases bring in (lease fees, spending, taxes, etc. and the foriegn aid that comes with it) just as much as the govenments of Japan, Korea, Gremany, Guam, Phillipines, etc., etc. etc. do.  It does not matter what the Iraqi people think anymore than it matters what the Japanese people think. 

 

We will never leave. 

 

Face it.  Obama is a shill just like the Republicans. 

 

The footsoldiers of the Left are always played for fools. 

 

"Useful idiots" I think is what they call them. 

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I don't think anyone denies that there will be some sort of permanent military presence in Iraq.  Some would argue that is why we invaded in the first place.  In terms of military strategy and the modern world, Iraq is a key strategic location to have military bases.  However, I also don't think that anyone would not agree that the cost of the combat operations, both in terms of human lives, money spent (not even considering the endless benefits payments we have imposed on future generations) and domestic/international backlash, it took to get us there is utterly unacceptable.  Combat operations will cease.  Combat troops will come home.  That is all the President ever promised... save for the fact that he did not meet the timeline he proposed when he was a candidate.

 

Except that 50,000 + are staying.  They are soldiers, not Peace Corp. workers!

 

Come on Hts, you are smarter than that.  How riduculous does the argument have to get before you abandon partisanship?

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It is not a partisan issue.  How many troops do we have in Germany?  How many combat operations have they engaged in over the last 50 years?  Have they not remained there under the auspices of Presidents from both sides of the aisle?  Do you expect a Republican president to pull all troops out of Iraq, if elected?  You don't have to "abandon partisanship" to know the answers to these questions.  You just need an internet connection and some common sense.

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So how does leaving 50,000 combat soldiers in Iraq = "bringing the troops home".  If we still had 50,000 combat troops in Vietnam, confined to bases, supported by a draft would that be OK with you?  If it is, maybe you should have voted for McCain. 

 

Check your SDS card and see if leaving 50,000 combat troops in Vietnam is OK. 

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I would be all for isolationism and focusing our military strength on national defense, but I realize we have gone way past the point of no return there.  I am adamantly against pre-emptive war and, in fact, find such warfare to be illegal under international law.  However, I am not in favor of abandoning responsibilities we have assumed, rightly or wrongly.  And, most importantly, my opinion does not vary with who holds the White House :)  I am also able to draw the rather easy distinction between combat operations and military bases.  When exactly is the last time any U.S. troops in Vietnam engaged in combat operations?

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OK, HTS, how many troops is it OK for the Left to leave in Afghanistan 10 years form now? 10,000? 25,000; 50,000?

 

OK to have a draft to support those numbers if we need to?

 

Better check your SDS card again. 

 

Your comment about the last time U.S. troops engaged in combat in Vietnam is non-responsive and bizarr.  You need to review the footage of the troops leaving the S. Vietnamese embassy by helicopter. 

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Where did this discussion of a draft come in?  To me, a military draft is unconstitutional and I would oppose it under any circumstances.  And despite your "Left" comments, remember that it was a Right wing President and a Right wing controlled Congress that got us into these wars in the first place.  How conveniently you forget.

 

I suppose your solution is to yank every single soldier out tomorrow from every military base we have outside the confines of the 50 states?

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?

Better check your SDS card again.

"Students for Democratic Society"?  Are you comparing HTS44121 to them?  This forum is not improved by insulting other participants.

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Obama was put in a tough place by Bush.  There's really no way to end our presence in the Middle East without having the place fall apart, whether it's now or in a decade.  It's not in our country's best interest to remain there (in fact it wasn't in our best interest to go there in the first place), but if we leave, we'll look really bad because it's clear that those people will rip each other to shreds fighting for power.  I'm not torn on this issue at all, as bad as this sounds, it's not our responsibility to nation-build or stop countries from having civil wars. I say we simply leave now and rightfully make sure that the blame for the ensuing chaos falls on Bush/Cheney/Rove/Rumsfield, because they got us into this mess without giving us a legitimate way out. 

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Where did this discussion of a draft come in? To me, a military draft is unconstitutional and I would oppose it under any circumstances. And despite your "Left" comments, remember that it was a Right wing President and a Right wing controlled Congress that got us into these wars in the first place. How conveniently you forget.

 

I suppose your solution is to yank every single soldier out tomorrow from every military base we have outside the confines of the 50 states?

 

I didn't forget.  I am not a Republican. 

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?

Better check your SDS card again.

"Students for Democratic Society"? Are you comparing HTS44121 to them? This forum is not improved by insulting other participants.

 

Who did I insult? HTS or SDS?

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Obama was put in a tough place by Bush. There's really no way to end our presence in the Middle East without having the place fall apart, whether it's now or in a decade. It's not in our country's best interest to remain there (in fact it wasn't in our best interest to go there in the first place), but if we leave, we'll look really bad because it's clear that those people will rip each other to shreds fighting for power. I'm not torn on this issue at all, as bad as this sounds, it's not our responsibility to nation-build or stop countries from having civil wars. I say we simply leave now and rightfully make sure that the blame for the ensuing chaos falls on Bush/Cheney/Rove/Rumsfield, because they got us into this mess without giving us a legitimate way out.

 

That is exactly Kucinick's position.  He has proposed offered  resolutions to that effect and gets voted down, unanimously by......Democrats. 

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Obama was put in a tough place by Bush. There's really no way to end our presence in the Middle East without having the place fall apart, whether it's now or in a decade. It's not in our country's best interest to remain there (in fact it wasn't in our best interest to go there in the first place), but if we leave, we'll look really bad because it's clear that those people will rip each other to shreds fighting for power. I'm not torn on this issue at all, as bad as this sounds, it's not our responsibility to nation-build or stop countries from having civil wars. I say we simply leave now and rightfully make sure that the blame for the ensuing chaos falls on Bush/Cheney/Rove/Rumsfield, because they got us into this mess without giving us a legitimate way out.

 

That is exactly Kucinick's position. He has proposed offered resolutions to that effect and gets voted down, unanimously by......Democrats.

 

Because it's a bad move politically.  Doesn't mean it's the wrong move for the United States.

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Obama was put in a tough place by Bush.  ....  I say we simply leave now and rightfully make sure that the blame for the ensuing chaos falls on Bush/Cheney/Rove/Rumsfield, because they got us into this mess without giving us a legitimate way out. 

That is exactly Kucinick's (sic) position.  He has proposed offered  resolutions to that effect and gets voted down, unanimously by......Democrats. 

That is a misrepresentation of history. 

Who needs facts when you have Fox?

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