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KJP

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Gee, how about one for the rail lines?? Provide a grant program to acquire and clean up properties as safe/comfortable pedestrian/bike routes to stations, then lease the land along them to developers. Use the revenues to support RTA policing services and maintenance. And provide a low-interest loan program to developers while you're at it......

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RTA Board of Trustees
February 18, 2020

 

2020-15 -- Authorizing Contract No. 2019-141 with Stantec Consulting Services, Inc. to provide a West 25th Street Transit Oriented Development Plan, in an amount not to exceed $414,068.00 (RTA Development Fund, Programming & Planning Department budget)

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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In regards to the Red Line rapid...

 

Is there a reason Tower City is the only station where you actually need a fair card to travel? Traveled through Hopkins last week and was shocked that it was essentially free from there too. I realize transit police are sometimes at stations to police this, but I am a new rider and am curious. By the way, I am not suggesting more policing on this as I am a big transit fan and love what Kansas City has been able to do in terms of making it more available to residents. 

 

Also, the Red Line Greenway seems to be making progress day by day, even after the substantial tree removal. 😑

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20 hours ago, ytown2ctown said:

In regards to the Red Line rapid...

 

Is there a reason Tower City is the only station where you actually need a fair card to travel? Traveled through Hopkins last week and was shocked that it was essentially free from there too. I realize transit police are sometimes at stations to police this, but I am a new rider and am curious. By the way, I am not suggesting more policing on this as I am a big transit fan and love what Kansas City has been able to do in terms of making it more available to residents. 

 

Also, the Red Line Greenway seems to be making progress day by day, even after the substantial tree removal. 😑

 

Yes, a significant majority of RTA rail travelers get on/off trains at Tower City, so they focus their police/fare-checking presence there. When the RTA police ride the trains, it is often between Tower City and East 55th because the trains are very frequent here and they can also check on the Central Rail Facility where there is a lot of expensive equipment sitting around.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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To be clear, though, the Red Line is not "free" if you board at other stations.  It's just that there are no fare gates to mechanically verify payment.  No one would ever say candy at CVS is free just because they don't ask for your receipt at the door. 

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As I've mentioned before, what is the estimated loss in fares for non payers vs hiring people at the ticket booths?  I would think that having people in the booths and turnstiles  would almost completely eliminate the free rides AND having someone there would give people on the platforms a sense of security.  Also, have they ever thought of revisiting the ticket machines?  I really hate the ones RTA uses.  The MTA machines in NYC seem so much more simplistic.  

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46 minutes ago, cfdwarrior said:

As I've mentioned before, what is the estimated loss in fares for non payers vs hiring people at the ticket booths?  I would think that having people in the booths and turnstiles  would almost completely eliminate the free rides AND having someone there would give people on the platforms a sense of security.  Also, have they ever thought of revisiting the ticket machines?  I really hate the ones RTA uses.  The MTA machines in NYC seem so much more simplistic.  


I’m sure there is a number out there somewhere, but my guess is it would be a net loss if you considered loss of fares vs paying a worker to be there ~19 hours a day.

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There is a third option.  Live, actively monitored cameras.  Not nearly as effective as a live person, but not nearly as costly either.

Edited by jtadams
Because I'm a moron.

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I'm getting to the point that I couldn't care less if RTA just disappears. The service is so infrequent, scattered, slow, unreliable and expensive that I never use it anymore. I either just drive to free/cheap parking places around town or, when I go to the airport or Amtrak station, take Lyft/Uber.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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I’ve not taken it to the airport for over a year now as the west side redline has been simply too unreliable to make me feel OK about making my flight in good time. 

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And they reckon that the last thing she saw in her life was
Sting, singing on the roof of the Barbican

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47 minutes ago, KJP said:

I'm getting to the point that I couldn't care less if RTA just disappears. The service is so infrequent, scattered, slow, unreliable and expensive that I never use it anymore. I either just drive to free/cheap parking places around town or, when I go to the airport or Amtrak station, take Lyft/Uber.


I understand the feeling, but I don't think it's even close to being time to give up.  Not yet.  These are dark times for transit, not just here but throughout most of the U.S.  However, keep in mind that just 12 years ago, we were named one of the best transit systems in the nation.  Could we get back?  It would require changes most of which are beyond the control of anyone here.  But they are not impossible.  $2/gal. gas will not last forever.  The long-term viability of ride-sharing services is far from certain.  A trend of re-urbanization continues in spite of many forces arrayed again it.  TOD is happening everyplace it's been given even half a chance.  While downtown Cleveland employment remaines more or less stagnant, its residential population is growing rapidly.  There is a growing understanding that our nation has been falling way behind on investment in infrastructure, not limited to transit, but certainly including it.  I think if the general public understood as well as those of us here how cost-effective transit investment can be, compared to the alternatives, their voice would lead toward broad bipartisan support for enough scraps (even if it's a rounding error compared to roads/highways/bridges) to more than rebuild our rail fleet and provide frequent service in the urban core as well as major suburban employment and residential centers.  The retiring baby boomer generation may well discover that transit is even more important to people in their golden years, beyond the point of being able to drive safely or legally, than it is to the rest of us.  There are no guarantees, and it won't happen without a lot of work and a bit of luck.  But even I, a fairly pessimistic person by nature, don't think it's hopeless.  Not yet.  It may feel that way, but that doesn't mean we give up.  It means we fight that much harder.  None of us were born transit advocates, and many of us, myself included, had to overcome some degree of ideological bias in order to join this club.  If we managed to learn enough to understand the vital importance of transit, others can too, but it's important that we find ways to educate them.  That may well prove to make the decisive difference.

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6 minutes ago, roman totale XVII said:

I’ve not taken it to the airport for over a year now as the west side redline has been simply too unreliable to make me feel OK about making my flight in good time. 

 

I wouldn't take it there unless I had an hour or two to spare.  But I'm more than happy to take it back home.

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2 hours ago, roman totale XVII said:

I’ve not taken it to the airport for over a year now as the west side redline has been simply too unreliable to make me feel OK about making my flight in good time. 

 

In my experience it has become way more reliable since about fall last year compared to rest of 2019. I have been using for the airport a lot, sometimes for the early 5 am departures and late night arrivals.  No issues.

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1 hour ago, viscomi said:

 

In my experience it has become way more reliable since about fall last year compared to rest of 2019. I have been using for the airport a lot, sometimes for the early 5 am departures and late night arrivals.  No issues.

Agreed.  For now it's ok.  RTA will probably wait for the next major event (NBA All Star or NFL draft) to schedule some major construction.  😑

Edited by Cleburger
typo

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On 2/19/2020 at 10:25 PM, Cleburger said:

Agreed.  For now it's ok.  RTA will probably wait for the next major event (NBA All Star or NFL draft) to schedule some major construction.  😑

Speaking of which I PRAY that we have enough cars to handle the (likely) influx of riders for Cavs all star weekend. I'd imagine West 25th Station and Little Italy station will get a major amount of riders. I hope we can operate two car trains pretty regularly by then.

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On 2/19/2020 at 12:28 PM, cfdwarrior said:

As I've mentioned before, what is the estimated loss in fares for non payers vs hiring people at the ticket booths?  I would think that having people in the booths and turnstiles  would almost completely eliminate the free rides AND having someone there would give people on the platforms a sense of security.  Also, have they ever thought of revisiting the ticket machines?  I really hate the ones RTA uses.  The MTA machines in NYC seem so much more simplistic.  

I think implementing turnstiles that require a card swipe (preferably a reloadable smart card) support mobile payments, and support the scanners that are down at Tower City could help with that problem of "free" riders. Yes it's an initial cost upfront but the long term gain from getting fares back from everyone would help offset that. 4 per station (2 for leaving the station and 2 for entering the station) would be sufficient. I can't remember if they had turnstiles at every station before (it's been over 10 years) but a newer more advanced style would be nice. 

Edited by MyPhoneDead
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On 2/19/2020 at 6:05 PM, roman totale XVII said:

I’ve not taken it to the airport for over a year now as the west side redline has been simply too unreliable to make me feel OK about making my flight in good time. 

What blows me away as a daily commuter on the Red line is how unreliable it is. It seems (and I could be VERY wrong here) to be the most popular rapid line, and the one with the most issues. This week alone I've had a one hour delay due to a power outage and a 30 minute delay due to bad brakers... Blows my mind for the $95/month I pay for a monthly pass (similar to Chicago and NYC prices, which are obviously WAY better systems) for such crappy service and options. 

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11 hours ago, ytown2ctown said:

What blows me away as a daily commuter on the Red line is how unreliable it is. It seems (and I could be VERY wrong here) to be the most popular rapid line, and the one with the most issues. This week alone I've had a one hour delay due to a power outage and a 30 minute delay due to bad brakers... Blows my mind for the $95/month I pay for a monthly pass (similar to Chicago and NYC prices, which are obviously WAY better systems) for such crappy service and options. 

MTA is not free of issues by any means and have signaling equipment arguably older than RTAs.

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I was taken by Tom McNair's tweet that Hingetown/Ohio City recent development is dense enough to support rail mass-transit. Recognizing that Cleveland probably can't afford a rail project, is it feasible, at reasonable cost, to connect the proposed west side BRT systems to the Tower City rail hub and run buses underground as far as W25th and Detoit via the Veterans Bridge lower level?  It would speed up the trip and appeal if they didn't have to contend with downtown/Public Square traffic. Maybe throw in a stop at W6th or W9th and Superior?

 

FWIW, the Paris Metro includes a couple of rubber-tired lines mixed with rail on shared right-of-way.

 

 

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Dougal said:

I was taken by Tom McNair's tweet that Hingetown/Ohio City recent development is dense enough to support rail mass-transit. Recognizing that Cleveland probably can't afford a rail project, is it feasible, at reasonable cost, to connect the proposed west side BRT systems to the Tower City rail hub and run buses underground as far as W25th and Detoit via the Veterans Bridge lower level?  It would speed up the trip and appeal if they didn't have to contend with downtown/Public Square traffic. Maybe throw in a stop at W6th or W9th and Superior?

 

FWIW, the Paris Metro includes a couple of rubber-tired lines mixed with rail on shared right-of-way.

 

 

 

 

 


This also reminds me of the MBTA's Silver line, which they brand as BRT. It starts out underground with catenary wires and then transitions to diesel not long after it goes above-grade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Line_(MBTA)

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On 2/21/2020 at 9:36 PM, MyPhoneDead said:

MTA is not free of issues by any means and have signaling equipment arguably older than RTAs.

 

No argument there.  And if it happens someplace fairly far out like say Howard Beach/JFK (don't ask me how I know this), you can be well and truly screwed.   But, in Manhattan at least, you usually have a few reasonable alternate routes if a single line is having issues, including, most likely, a bus that will be there in less than 5 minutes (though it'll be 10x slower than the train).  With GCRTA, best case, we get shuttle buses that are neither fast, nor frequent.  You may well lose an hour or more, especially if you were counting on a once-an-hour connection to one of the many connecting buses that only run hourly.  You can leave 15-20 minutes for your connection, as I did back when I rode GCRTA more frequently.  But if the train suddenly breaks down, or just never bothers to show up, you still aren't going to make that connection.

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