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Cincinnati: Downtown: Holiday Inn

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Exactly. I'm not opposed to some historical references in new architecture as long as they're thoughtfully designed and well-executed. And despite what wholtone seems to imply by posting the photo above, I'm no fan of "starchitects" like Daniel Libeskind who think their celebrity status as architects absolves them of their responsibility to the physical and social context in which they operate. Not every building has to be an award-winning, bleeding-edge architectural opus, but every building should at least be designed with some thoughtfulness and attention to detail, and some regard for those who experience the building once it's complete.

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didnt mean to respond. cant figure out how delete my post. do disagree about the usage of "form following function" wrote a very long arrogant sounding book as a reply and meant for it to not be posted. i would note though that that expression comes more out of a concern with structural and material honesty, and an outrage over ornamentation. you can see find examples of garages that follow this principle quite literally, in corbusier and other early modernist designers who were obsessed with the automobile, and buildings being machines (which they viewed as the penultimate achievement of form following function) i'm sure you just meant that a garage should look like a garage, but that is a very weighty statement to be throwing around in the midst of architects. i would argue that to mimic historicist architecture is every bit as dishonest as what the early modernists were rebelling against. one advantage we have is 100 years of the architecture produced as a result of their writings to measure against their ideals.  one big thing also is to broaden the understanding of ornamentation, which isnt purely motifs and flourishes added to a facade but can include color, pattern, material, actual formal ornament.  note the herzog demeuron parking structure in miami. its definitely a parking structure, but structurally and formally it is highly ornamental, without appearing so.

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I certainly did not mean to imply that I like Corbusier or early modernist architecture. I don't. What I meant was more an argument against Gehry and Liebeskind-style starchitecture. As a DAAP student, I could not STAND how the building was very bad at doing its job, which was to be an educational facility. There were parts of the building with terrible lighting, awkward angles (for a classroom) and the bathrooms seemed like an after thought. It would have been ok as a museum since the building itself is an interesting piece of art. And I can certainly understand times where the function of a building is its form.

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EXCLUSIVE: Plans in motion for Holiday Inn by casino

Jul. 11, 2013 6:33 AM 

Written by Cindi Andrews

 

 

A much smaller version of a Holiday Inn long planned for Downtown near the casino is poised to move forward.

 

The full-service hotel, originally a $14 million project with 206 rooms, has been scaled back to $8.4 million and 115 rooms, according to an email from the developer, Rolling Hills Hospitality, to the city.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130711/BIZ/307110043/EXCLUSIVE-Plans-motion-Holiday-Inn-by-Horseshoe-Casino?nclick_check=1

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Drawings of new Downtown Holiday Inn

 

The first rendering of the new Holiday Inn planned for Downtown at Seventh and Broadway shows a blend of the architectural styles of nearby buildings.

 

1377065_10152257088644698_1893820481_n.jpg

 

For instance, narrow windows echo the Art Deco style of the former Times Star building.

 

The final plan, to be presented to the Cincinnati Planning Commission on Oct. 4, also shows that the hotel, as previously reported in the Enquirer, will have 117 rooms instead of 200.

 

Cont


"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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Wow. Cindi's journalism slip up here? This is just a terrible article. My reply on the article at the Enquirer:

 

--

 

Sorry Cindi. I usually respect your work, but this is pretty bad. There are several hotels that have opened in Cincinnati in the past FEW years, some that Bill pointed out. And I can list many, many more in the last several decades.

 

Spring Hill Suites at Eden Park; Hampton Inn and Suites on Short Vine; Residence Inn by Marriott in Lytle Park; 21C Museum Hotel in downtown.

 

Even if we were to write the article to read that it will be the first new hotel in downtown in decades, it would be incorrect.

 

And the drawings are not accompanied with the article. :/

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Meh, it does the job (the rendering).


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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She said it was the first new construction hotel in Cincinnati, I believe she meant downtown. SpringHill is not considered downtown and the other hotels were all in existing buildings so they are not new construction. The last new construction hotel downtown was the Hyatt

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Cheap and boring. Belongs Uptown.

 

It's a Holiday Inn. What did you expect, a Rem Koolhaus masterpiece? I think the design is fine for its surroundings.  Definitely an upgrade over the crappy parking structure that is currently there, and I think this, plus the residential on top of the 7th and Broadway garage should help make this portion of downtown a little more vibrant.  No we just need to get something built on one of the 2 giant parking lots across the street from this site.

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It was difficult to determine what she was trying to convey in her original post, whether it was new hotels in Cincinnati; new downtown hotels in Cincinnati; new construction for hotels in Cincinnati; new construction for hotels in downtown Cincinnati; etc.

 

--

 

re Greg

I think that it is an okay design, but I don't believe that every design that comes out has to be spectacular or game changing. There are many buildings that are far less ornate that have held up well over the years. Standardized designs also save on costs, and labor and materials can be cheaper. I don't understand the rationale of the article saying it fits in or attempts to blend in with its surroundings, taking cues from the Times-Star Building (http://urbanup.net/cities/ohio/cincinnati-ohio/downtown/times-star-building/), when it hardly does.

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I don't understand the rationale of the article saying it fits in or attempts to blend in with its surroundings, taking cues from the Times-Star Building (http://urbanup.net/cities/ohio/cincinnati-ohio/downtown/times-star-building/), when it hardly does.

 

If anything, it reminds me a bit of 50s and 60s modernism - look at the street level overhead canopy and its supports - and a little bit of Prairie School in the windows at the top, like the building at Reading & Elsinore

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Say what you want, settle how you want, rationalize your way to mediocrity. I've seen a better Holiday Inn in Pikeville, Kentucky (actually it was a Hampton Inn, but same hotel type). So it still doesn't take away from the fact that it is cheap and boring. In fact, it is hard pressed to remember the last big infill project in DT/Uptown that wasn't cheap and boring. So while you say 'every building can't be a star' it seems to me that no building has been a star in semi-recent memory. Nothing Uptown. Nothing at The Banks. Certainly not the casino, which is a huge embarrassment. Nothing being proposed downtown. Nothing in OTR. At least not yet.

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Say what you want, settle how you want, rationalize your way to mediocrity. I've seen a better Holiday Inn in Pikeville, Kentucky (actually it was a Hampton Inn, but same hotel type). So it still doesn't take away from the fact that it is cheap and boring. In fact, it is hard pressed to remember the last big infill project in DT/Uptown that wasn't cheap and boring. So while you say 'every building can't be a star' it seems to me that no building has been a star in semi-recent memory. Nothing Uptown. Nothing at The Banks. Certainly not the casino, which is a huge embarrassment. Nothing being proposed downtown. Nothing in OTR. At least not yet.

 

I agree, I feel that many posters here are too accepting of the sub-par designs that have been proposed lately. This design is just sad.

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Everyone needs to calm down otherwise you'll just be pissed at every single design Cincinnati proposes from here on out.  Its Holiday Inn people.  This chain isn't high on the architecture needs list.

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It's not unlike hoping that the new McDonalds at Exit 159 will enhance the latest sprawl-terchange.  This is a low visibility nook of DT that just needs some life.  Mission accomplished.  I'd rather leave the heavy lifting of trophy edifices to somebody else and some other project.

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>Say what you want, settle how you want, rationalize your way to mediocrity. I've seen a better Holiday Inn in Pikeville, Kentucky (actually it was a Hampton Inn, but same hotel type). So it still doesn't take away from the fact that it is cheap and boring. In fact, it is hard pressed to remember the last big infill project in DT/Uptown that wasn't cheap and boring. So while you say 'every building can't be a star' it seems to me that no building has been a star in semi-recent memory. Nothing Uptown. Nothing at The Banks. Certainly not the casino, which is a huge embarrassment. Nothing being proposed downtown. Nothing in OTR. At least not yet.

 

Pikeville.  Ouch.

 

I'll throw out that I think the Arronoff Center was the last great addition to downtown, and that's going on 20 years (I think it opened in 1995).  A lot of mid-sized cities have added new stuff in the past few years that is much nicer than what we've gotten. 

 

 

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Here is the supposedly glorious Pikeville Hampton Inn (which I don't really find to be anything impressive):

 

hampton-inn-pikeville.jpg

 

Here is a rendering of our new proposed hotel:

 

bilde?Site=AB&Date=20130926&Category=CINCI&ArtNo=309270050&Ref=AR&MaxW=640&Border=0&See-first-Drawings-new-Downtown-Holiday-Inn

 

 

To be honest, both aren't special (thus, both are comparable).  Which is sad.


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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Yup. But it was heavily criticized by review board as too faux historic. At the same time, everyone would hate it if they tried some modern experiment that will look dated in 15 years. Considering the budget is fixed (city/port are building it) there isn't room ($$) for some crazy wild exterior.

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I can understand being upset when an historic structure of good quality is razed to make way for EIFS and cinder block wonders.  Here we actually have a case where this structure improves upon what is currently there.  I'm okay with that.

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Are people really disappointed  that a Holiday Inn doesn't have an exciting design?  Its a Holiday Inn.  That's what a Holiday Inn looks like. 

 

I spent about 20 minutes googling holiday inn's.  Most were horrendous.  There were a couple in europe that looked pretty good.

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^Some posters here don't seem to have a firm grasp on reality when it comes to development projects.

 

I think it's more financial constraints. This is a project that is receiving taxpayer monies, and isn't something that should be embellished with ornate architecture that's not going to raise its profile (or rates) any further. If there was more private monies being put towards the project, or if it was a flagship hotel for Holiday Inn, I can see more ornamentation. And that's not to say that all buildings or infrastructure that uses public money needs to be boring or cladded with styrofoam, but that labor and material costs makes it prohibitive in many cases to do anything extraordinary.

 

I think there was a post someone made on a site (was it the Atlantic Cities?) that had coined the term "staritecture," and used it in relation to a case very similar to this. It was an office spec building for a downtown, much like many suburban office blocks, but in an urban setting with appropriate frontages and massing, and replaced a surface parking lot. But by some in the planning / design community, it was a bore because it had few embellishments - it was glass cladded with a brick pedestal, and its design was fairly mundane. Nothing special, but nothing inappropriate. But it was almost all privately financed.

 

Do we start telling developers that they need to follow very specific standards and hope for the best, potentially driving away developers, or accept that not every building will be gazed upon by UrbanOhio's hungry eyes?

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