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Cincinnati: Downtown: Holiday Inn

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From a recent article discussing casino parking lot closures.....

 

Meanwhile, the city is "close" to signing off on a proposal with a private developer that would bring a 660-car parking garage and 200-room hotel to the former American Red Cross site at Eighth and Sycamore streets, Hardy said.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20101031/BIZ01/11010324/1055/NEWS/Casino-work-to-cut-parking

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Did I see somewhere that the city had, had prelim talks with Holiday Inn and that might be the hotel on this site? (or am I imagining this article bc I cant find it again?)

 

Holiday Inn is not a bad resident by any means but I imagine their clientele to be a diverse mix of people looking to visit Cincy for less (a great idea), and people too drunk/tired from drinking/gambling to make it home.

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Did I see somewhere that the city had, had prelim talks with Holiday Inn and that might be the hotel on this site? (or am I imagining this article bc I cant find it again?)

 

Holiday Inn is not a bad resident by any means but I imagine their clientele to be a diverse mix of people looking to visit Cincy for less (a great idea), and people too drunk/tired from drinking/gambling to make it home.

 

keep in mind that "Holiday Inn" could mean the IHG group of hotels, which includes:

InterContinental Hotels & Resorts

Crowne Plaza Hotels & Resorts

Hotel Indigo

Holiday Inn Hotels & Resorts

Holiday Inn Express

Staybridge Suites

Candlewood Suites

 

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Downtown Holiday Inn green-lighted

Business Courier - by Dan Monk

Date: Friday, December 10, 2010, 6:00am EST

Enlarge Image

Courtesy of Cincinnati Planning Commission

 

 

The Cincinnati Planning Commission has endorsed a revised plan for a 200-room Holiday Inn hotel that’s been contemplated on downtown’s eastern edge for nearly three years.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2010/12/10/downtown-holiday-inn-green-lighted.html

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Interesting.  I thought originally the hotel would face sycamore street, but maybe i just assumed that since the red cross currently faces that direction.  Not sure if i like this alternate configuration or not.  It will give the hotel nice visibility from 71 as well as fill in some of the gaps on that edge of town.  Either way its a positive upgrade from the garage thats there now... as long as they can improve the aesthetic of the proposed garage.

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That BusinessCourier article is great. Second paragraph about the garage says, "it looks like a jail.". I'd love to see Cincy prove it can successfully mask an above ground garage. It is possible...

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That BusinessCourier article is great. Second paragraph about the garage says, "it looks like a jail.". I'd love to see Cincy prove it can successfully mask an above ground garage. It is possible...

 

Here we go...

http://monarchconstruction.cc/projects/higheduc/images/pages/Miami%20University%20Parking%20Garage_jpg.htm

 

Monarch is already doing work downtown at the Banks!  I would imagine that would be an easy sell for them!

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I like the look of the Hotel. Almost seems to have some hints of Art Deco on the highest point of the right side.

 

The garage needs help! John Schneider, do whatever you can on the planning committee to make sure it is better looking.  One of the best above ground garage's downtown is 5/3 buildings garage (above cadillac ranch).  So many people don't even realize it's a parking garage! At the same time, that garage is much smaller than a full, block sized garage...

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That BusinessCourier article is great. Second paragraph about the garage says, "it looks like a jail.". I'd love to see Cincy prove it can successfully mask an above ground garage. It is possible...

 

 

 

Monarch is already doing work downtown at the Banks!  I would imagine that would be an easy sell for them!

 

Maybe someone should tell them that this building is UC's not Miami's.

 

http://monarchconstruction.cc/projects/higheduc/images/pages/Miami%20University%20Science%20and%20Engineering%20Building%20View%203_jpg.htm

 

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Downtown Holiday Inn Concept Approved

 

Following nearly three years and three revisions, concept plans for Downtown Cincinnati's first newly-built hotel since 1984 have been approved by Cincinnati City Council.

 

Rolling Hills Hospitality (Downtown Hills, LLC) plans to build a $14 million, 11-story, 200-room Holiday Inn Hotel & Suites at the corner of Seventh Street and Broadway.

 

The deal is contingent on a land swap between the developer and the City. The developer would swap the former American Red Cross headquarters at 720 Sycamore Street in exchange for a portion of the 257-space Seventh Street Garage, which the City deems outdated.

 

The City then will demolish the Seventh Street Garage and build a new 610-space public parking garage with ground-floor retail along Sycamore Street, between Seventh and Eighth streets.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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Downtown hotel plan delayed

10:40 am, Sep 16, 2011 | Written by lbernard

 

Developers of a proposed 200-room hotel along Sycamore Street will get another year to land financing for the project.

 

The Cincinnati Planning Commission on Friday approved a request from Fort Mitchell-based Rolling Hills Hospitality to extend its planned development agreement one more year while the developer lines up funding for the project.

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/developingnow/2011/09/16/downtown-hotel-plan-delayed/

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I have serious doubts that this project will ever happen, but if it does it will be solely due to the fact that the Horseshoe Casino Cincinnati is located just a few blocks away.

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The last article on this talked about the developers need to secure financing. I wouldn't hold my breath. Downtown has the 21c opening up and the Terrace Plaza hotel is still empty.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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The State of Downtown Report just released by Downtown Cincinnati Inc. indicates that the proposed $14 million Holiday Inn project for Seventh and Broadway is targeted for 2013. It appears as item No. 36 on Page 14 along with some other interesting stuff.

 

http://www.downtowncincinnati.com/Libraries/DCI_Publications/2011_SOD_lo_res.sflb.ashx

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Yeah I saw that but at this point I won't believe it till I see them start building it!


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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Garage design slammed for looking like a jail, now what's wrong with it?

By Dan Monk

 

Two years ago, it was criticized for looking like a jail.

Now, the design for a city-owned parking garage at Seventh and Sycamore streets is being panned for looking too much like the buildings around it.

“It’s almost like pandering to history,” said architect Paul Muller, a member of the city’s Urban Design Review Board.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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Garage design slammed for looking like a jail, now what's wrong with it?

By Dan Monk

 

Two years ago, it was criticized for looking like a jail.

Now, the design for a city-owned parking garage at Seventh and Sycamore streets is being panned for looking too much like the buildings around it.

“It’s almost like pandering to history,” said architect Paul Muller, a member of the city’s Urban Design Review Board.

 

I wish every new parking garage looked like that. Sure you could nitpick some things but it is tons better than the original design.

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I wish every new parking garage looked like that. Sure you could nitpick some things but it is tons better than the original design.

 

That's an incredibly nice design for a parking garage, particularly for Cincinnati.  Now if only the Banks were this good.

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Are you people serious? I've seen Wal-Mart stores that are better-designed. Muller is right; the absolute worst way to pay homage to historical architecture is to build a cheap, theme park knock-off of it right next door.

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LiG, please don't take this the wrong way but do you have any photographic examples of garages that would realistically fit this context and user? I am generally interested.

 

Also, I couldn't help but be reminded of an article I just read in this month's APA "Planning" magazine about infill buildings, historic structures, and how sensitive to context a design should be. However, that is probably a topic for another board.

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Two different schools of thought: Context through contrast (making infill buildings look different so as to not "copy" the historic ones) and context through similarity or likeness (making infill buildings blend in by matching form and style and borrowing architectural features). I honestly don't know which camp I'm in, but the most recent rendering is nicer than the prior one. LIG, are you looking for something more modern looking?

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honestly speaking, i think we could do much much worse than that garage. of course we could do much much better as well, but i'm willing to hedge my bets and accept something that at least doesnt detract from the neighborhood, or stick out like a sore thumb. (start bitching about "thats what cincinnati always does, and thats why its average" but hear me out) its not challenging to accept, its not exciting, it just is background, completely neutral background. at a certain level it does exactly maybe what it should do. you need some bland to appreciate the salt some times. given the context, lack of connection to the rest of downtown created by the surface lots more or less surrounding it i think its fine. it would be nice to get a santa monica civic center garage or that herzog de meuron project in miami, but i'd rather a fairly quality background building than a poorly executed, value engineered attempt at contemporary, which cincinnati loves to do.

 

also, given that theres a giant garage across the street, that definitely looks like a garage, and that there are surface lots and parking garages all around this site, maybe its a good thing that this offers something somewhat different, but just neutral. garages arent often known as drivers of vital urbanity possibly because its obvious to every passer-by that the sole use of the place is a storage depot for people occupying other areas of the city.

 

(written by an architect who would never in a million years design a neo-traditionalist building)

 

side note, for my money probably the coolest parking garage in cincinnati is 2 blocks away on 7th street right across from the busken bakery in the  base of the aronoff center, and this definitely echoes shades of that.

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Two different schools of thought: Context through contrast (making infill buildings look different so as to not "copy" the historic ones) and context through similarity or likeness (making infill buildings blend in by matching form and style and borrowing architectural features). I honestly don't know which camp I'm in, but the most recent rendering is nicer than the prior one. LIG, are you looking for something more modern looking?

 

The article I read was making the case that context through contrast seems to be the choice of most architects today but made a case that context through similarity is not a bad thing and in certain instances is a better option. They cited how the Hearst Magazine Building in New York City was an example of this. Apparently, another firm had done a conceptual design that the author felt was modern but did a much better job of matching the existing building contextually. They also cited some building in Chelsea which was cladded with some real modern type of facade and did not match the neighborhood at all.

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LiG, please don't take this the wrong way but do you have any photographic examples of garages that would realistically fit this context and user? I am generally interested.

 

To answer your question, let me answer Rob's question first:

 

Two different schools of thought: Context through contrast (making infill buildings look different so as to not "copy" the historic ones) and context through similarity or likeness (making infill buildings blend in by matching form and style and borrowing architectural features). I honestly don't know which camp I'm in, but the most recent rendering is nicer than the prior one. LIG, are you looking for something more modern looking?

 

I'm very firmly in the "context through contrast" camp, although that doesn't mean a new structure can't use similar materials as the older buildings, but in a more modernist way.

 

I'd argue that "making infill buildings blend in by matching form and style and borrowing architectural features" is almost always a recipe for failure, especially in this type of situation, for two main reasons: 1) the existing historical buildings weren't parking garages, and trying to make a parking garage look like a historic loft building would be incredibly futile, and 2) the existing historical buildings were built with construction methods that are no longer in widespread use in the construction industry.  I'm not saying one method of construction is better or worse than the other, but the fact remains that methods, materials, and technology have changed, and a parking garage built in the year 2013 with modern technology will never adequately match a neighborhood built in the 1920's, no matter how hard they try. (And judging by the rendering, it doesn't appear as if they tried very hard at all.)

 

In certain limited circumstances I could subscribe to the latter approach to historic preservation; one such example would be my old church in Chicago, Fourth Presbyterian Church on Michigan Avenue across from the Hancock Center. The church, housed in a landmark Gothic Revival building designed by noted architect Ralph Adams Cram, needed to build a loggia in order to provide wheelchair access from the sidewalk level up to the main floor of the church, which is several feet higher. So they hired an architect with a strong track record in historic preservation, did careful research on the original church plans, and built a loggia designed to match the original building in exact detail, and built out of stone using the same traditional methods as the main building, from limestone from the same quarry as the original building. (This is a very wealthy congregation, so they could afford to take such an approach.) Today, the new addition seamlessly matches the original building, and most people would never be able to guess that it was built nearly 70 years later. But that's obviously not an approach one would use to build a parking garage on a vacant site.

 

In a nutshell: Try to match the historic fabric only if you're damn sure you can do it exactly right, down to the last detail. Otherwise, go for contrast.

 

Now, for examples of parking garages that don't suck. The Atlantic Cities recently had a slideshow, 16 Parking Garages Worth Looking At. Included among them was the Fifth Third garage on Fountain Square, with the glassy facade and light display designed by Cincinnati's own FRCH:

 

023706_Screen_Shot_2012-10-12_at_2.38.51_PM.png

 

Another favorite of mine, the Santa Monica Civic Center garage by Moore Ruble Yudell:

 

025329_Screen_Shot_2012-10-12_at_2.55.14_PM.png

 

For the 8th & Sycamore site, something like this would be pretty cool (although I'm not a big fan of the faux-historic ground level. Imagine something with red brick and black metal accents instead.):

 

025125_Screen_Shot_2012-10-12_at_2.53.04_PM.png

 

 

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They actually have some decent-looking projects in their portfolio, but they don't seem to have a strong focus on urban design issues. And if the client insists on a crappy building, then there's only so much the architect can do.

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I don't know.  It's a garage.  They never really look great.  I do like the Fifth Third garage and that third one you posted, but the second one looks like an abandoned construction project in latin america. 

 

This things hides the cars and has first floor retail.  The design isn't blowing my mind, but it gets out of the way and isn't an eyesore like the rendering from 2010 would have been (building on left).

 

Hotel_Sycamore_7th_8th.jpg?v=1

 

7th_Sycamore_garage_render.jpg?v=1

 

 

I'm no architect, and this could certainly be better, but it doesn't seem that bad.  Maybe a B- or C+.  I don't like settling, but I also don't think that it's possible to have every new building be fantastic.  Some are just going to be acceptable.

 

 

 

I'm very firmly in the "context through contrast" camp, although that doesn't mean a new structure can't use similar materials as the older buildings, but in a more modernist way.

 

I'd argue that "making infill buildings blend in by matching form and style and borrowing architectural features" is almost always a recipe for failure...

 

I totally agree with you here.  For the worst example of this I've ever seen, just take a look at what Campbell County did to their formerly beautiful courthouse (a Samuel Hannaford-designed structure):

 

120830349npttayls.jpg

 

120830327npttayls.jpg

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