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Cleveland: Downtown: May Company Building

RISK OF CLOSURE

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8 minutes ago, Zyrokai said:

.......is this really going to get approved? 😞

We will see.  It is being presented to Design Review in a half hour and the Planning Commission tomorrow.

 

Last time I was at Design Review (in connection with Stark wanting to tear down 310  Prospect) one of the panel members opined what a tragedy the other bridge was so I would be very interested to hear the debate today.  If anybody on the board is there today it would be great if you could report back.  Not only the views of the panel members but the owner's presentation and how they go about putting lipstick on this pig.

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Not a fan of skybridges like you all, but in this instance consider this:

 

- May company building is only being renovated bc Gilbert is doing so.  (small price to pay)

- If bedrock thinks those apartments gain a leasing advantage by having them connected internally to offices in tower city / and the RTA / and his casino then I get it.

- Higbee is already a casino, does it really matter if another skybridge skewers the façade?

- End result is we have renovated a garage that was horrible, and a renovated massively empty building on public square.  I'm not shedding a tear about a walkway, yes I understand those things are already happening without this skybridge.

- This isn't going to affect foot traffic one way or the other, the casino people are already parking in the other garage and using the other skybridge, this gives a second option on gamedays

- regarding crime, I've never felt great about leaving the casino at street level at night if I've won at the casino (rare occurrence)

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JACK Entertainment pitches new aerial walkway as a key to sparking downtown economic growth on Ontario

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2019/10/jack-entertainment-pitches-new-aerial-walkway-as-a-key-to-sparking-economic-growth-on-ontario.html

 

Seems like the review committee approved the concept with very little push back... 

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6 minutes ago, RE Developer In Training said:

Seems like the review committee approved the concept with very little push back... 

 

Wow...


"Most of us have been conditioned to regard military combat as exciting and glamorous -- an opportunity for men to prove their competence and courage. Since armies are legal, we feel that war is acceptable; in general, nobody feels that that war is criminal or that accepting it is a criminal attitude. In fact, we have been brainwashed. War is neither glamorous nor attractive. It is monstrous. Its very nature is one of tragedy and suffering" --Dalai Lama

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I really find this amazing.  Design Review doesn't like the first bridge but likes this one.  Really wish I could have been there.  If there was going to be any push back it was going to be in design review not the PC which pretty much kneels before Gilbert (and of course has the ultimate say no matter what design said) so looks like a done deal unless somebody like Matt Zone has any power.

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5 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I really find this amazing.  Design Review doesn't like the first bridge but likes this one.  Really wish I could have been there.  If there was going to be any push back it was going to be in design review not the PC which pretty much kneels before Gilbert (and of course has the ultimate say no matter what design said) so looks like a done deal unless somebody like Matt Zone has any power.

 

The only thing I can think of is you never know what’s going on behind the scenes. Just yesterday the Tower City remodel was proposed which is also a Bedrock project in terms of investment. Maybe there was some back door dealings going on but I’m just totally speculating. 

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So ... why cant we do ALL OF THIS, without a bridge? 

 

  • When JACK returns to get approval of its final plans, the committee wants to see a detailed plan for the street, given that Gilbert’s companies have control of nearly all the property, including streetscaping improvements.
  • The committee also wants a look at plans for overhauling the May Co. garage, including work that will replace some cement walls with a glass façade.
  • The committee asked JACK to have conversations with RTA about improving transfer stops as part of a streetscape improvement.
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In other news, I hear that bloodletting is a wonderful way to boost stamina. My Twitter contribution....

 

 

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"Most of us have been conditioned to regard military combat as exciting and glamorous -- an opportunity for men to prove their competence and courage. Since armies are legal, we feel that war is acceptable; in general, nobody feels that that war is criminal or that accepting it is a criminal attitude. In fact, we have been brainwashed. War is neither glamorous nor attractive. It is monstrous. Its very nature is one of tragedy and suffering" --Dalai Lama

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3 hours ago, Taller_is_better said:

Not a fan of skybridges like you all, but in this instance consider this:

 

- May company building is only being renovated bc Gilbert is doing so.  (small price to pay)

- If bedrock thinks those apartments gain a leasing advantage by having them connected internally to offices in tower city / and the RTA / and his casino then I get it.

- Higbee is already a casino, does it really matter if another skybridge skewers the façade?

- End result is we have renovated a garage that was horrible, and a renovated massively empty building on public square.  I'm not shedding a tear about a walkway, yes I understand those things are already happening without this skybridge.

- This isn't going to affect foot traffic one way or the other, the casino people are already parking in the other garage and using the other skybridge, this gives a second option on gamedays

- regarding crime, I've never felt great about leaving the casino at street level at night if I've won at the casino (rare occurrence)

 

1. How is Gilbert renovating May in any way relevant to the sky rights above a public street? I assure you if I buy two houses across from each other in Cleveland Heights, they’re not going to grant me the right to bridge them together...

 

2. I work in a Tower City... if you think taking the elevator down, walking up to the Higbee, getting your ID checked? Walking through the maze to the escalators, walking through another maze to the bridge, and then waiting for another elevator (or stairwell, god forbid) is faster than walking out the front door of Tower City and across the street... well—I got nothing. Not to mention if you’re coming to/from work, you’d have to have your bag checked. Or if you’re bringing your kids to work—they’re not even allowed to use the bridge as a pass-through because they’re not of legal age...

 

3. Same as 1. What does Higbee’s existence as a casino have to do with the sky rights over Ontario?

 

4. Your own argument is that it takes people living in May and working in TC off the street by giving them a pass-through. Followed by arguing that this doesn’t remove people from the street...

 

5. Again, broken window theory. Also, what if you don’t drive? So we’re saying drivers have the right to security but those who can’t afford a car, or wish to use an alternative form of transit (including the growing downtown population who sure as sh*t isn’t going to drive from their apartment/condo to the casino) don’t have the right to security?

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1 hour ago, cle_guy90 said:

 

The only thing I can think of is you never know what’s going on behind the scenes. Just yesterday the Tower City remodel was proposed which is also a Bedrock project in terms of investment. Maybe there was some back door dealings going on but I’m just totally speculating. 

 

I had a similar thought. 

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It's this lack of the city's/county's/state's strategic thinking that has created NEO's current situation.  These elected officials and their minions never seem to get the big picture; or do they?

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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Most of the planning commission is apparently too scared to vote against Bedrock.

 

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2019/10/04/jack-casinos-proposed-pedestrian-bridge-gets-green-light-from-cleveland-planning-commission-final-approval-still-awaits

 

Quote

Jack Casino's Proposed Pedestrian Bridge Gets Green Light From Cleveland Planning Commission, Final Approval Still Awaits

...

Outside on the sidewalk following the meeting, Komoroski was on the phone debriefing someone on the vote while waiting at a crosswalk. Loud enough for anyone to hear, including this reporter, he was expressing to whomever was on the other end of the line his vigorous and sincere displeasure with the councilman's vote.

"And one guy switched his vote at the last minute to a no. Kerry McCormack," Komoroski said. "Kerry FREAKING McCormack."

It's almost as if they expect to get what they want, and unanimously with total acquiescence at that, with no inspection of what seem to be hollow promises. Where have we heard that story before?

 

Edited by Mendo
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Has there been a sudden loss of common sense on the Review Board?

 

"Komoroski led off with a stirring jargonoliloquy, declaring the pedestrian skyway would be a "catalyst" for the revitalization of that stretch of Ontario, ushering in a new era of increased foot traffic that would drive street-level retail and investment."

 

Am I missing something here or is this complete nonsense?

 

How is a pedestrian skyway, above the roadway, going to drive increased foot traffic and street-level retail?

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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Jeez... I think Scene can sometimes be a little ridiculous in their 'everything is negative' approach but talk about shady-sounding:

 

"Outside on the sidewalk following the meeting, Komoroski was on the phone debriefing someone on the vote while waiting at a crosswalk. Loud enough for anyone to hear, including this reporter, he was expressing to whomever was on the other end of the line his vigorous and sincere displeasure with the councilman's vote. 

"And one guy switched his vote at the last minute to a no. Kerry McCormack," Komoroski said. "Kerry FREAKING McCormack."" 

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I would think that there’s value in getting more office tenants in the Higbee building. And especially if they’re getting them from outside of the city, you bet your ass they care about covered parking. If this attracts more business to the property, this isn’t a bad thing. They say potential tenants complain about the lack of covered parking and I could completely believe that

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In my honest opinion.  If you are in favor of a second bridge over Ontario, instead of providing and marketing walk-able retail along Ontario, PS/Euclid and Prospect.  You hate Cleveland!

 

love and hip hop period GIF by VH1

Edited by MyTwoSense
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3 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

In my honest opinion.  If you are in favor of a second bridge over Ontario, instead of providing and marketing walk-able retail along Ontario, PS/Euclid and Prospect.  You hate Cleveland!

 

love and hip hop period GIF by VH1

We can't even provide decent retail on Euclid Ave, how would the city be able to support retail along Ontario at all?

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29 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

We can't even provide decent retail on Euclid Ave, how would the city be able to support retail along Ontario at all?

This is all urban planning, emphasis on the planning. Planning for the future. What's being built now will have an impact on the city for decades. Not that long ago Euclid was slow and lacking much in the way of retail. A short walk in downtown will show that this is no longer the case as more and more businesses are opening downtown. The point of preserving Ontario retail along with the point of building new retail spaces is in planning for a time in the future when the demand will be there to fill up these spots. We need them now because they'll be filled tomorrow.

Edited by tykaps
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8 hours ago, inlovewithCLE said:

I would think that there’s value in getting more office tenants in the Higbee building. And especially if they’re getting them from outside of the city, you bet your ass they care about covered parking. If this attracts more business to the property, this isn’t a bad thing. They say potential tenants complain about the lack of covered parking and I could completely believe that

 

Im confused why the covered parking right in between Brooks Bros and the casino isn’t considered covered parking...

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Cross-posting this from the Casino thread:

 

Some interesting things on the design review... again why cant all of this happen WITHOUT the skywalk?  I dont know.  But things I like... finally enhancing the streetscape on Ontario and wrapping around Prospect.  Adding greenery.  Adding a cafe/retail spot on the corner of Ontario and W Prospect.  Remodeling that awful garage and renovating the ground level storefronts.  All great things, but why are they only happening now?

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

What's also interesting is that the second skywalk is de-emphasized in the schematic. Is it still on the table?

 

Yes. It was approved pending further refinement of the street level below, which is what these pics are supposed to show.

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So if residential/hotel buildings are built at Huron-Ontario as the Bedrock riverfront massing shows, are they going to want to add a walkway over the Huron-Ontario intersection too?? As a pedestrian, that intersection actually scares me more than Ontario-Prospect.


"Most of us have been conditioned to regard military combat as exciting and glamorous -- an opportunity for men to prove their competence and courage. Since armies are legal, we feel that war is acceptable; in general, nobody feels that that war is criminal or that accepting it is a criminal attitude. In fact, we have been brainwashed. War is neither glamorous nor attractive. It is monstrous. Its very nature is one of tragedy and suffering" --Dalai Lama

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Good Lord.  Am I reading this proposal correctly?  The addition of 6 concrete planters and few outside seats at a yet unnamed restaurant justifies a skywalk that we'll be looking at for the next 50 years?

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Keep in mind (and I think they indicate as much) half of the west side of the block is devoted to transit stops and the Jack windows run the length. At least they propose installing art exhibits into the current blacked out windows.

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Public art in the window displays, I’m sure it will be top notch. That’s was a joke.

Nothing can make up for the loss across the street of Ontario Street Cafe.

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