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Cleveland: Downtown: May Company Building

RISK OF CLOSURE

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4 hours ago, simplythis said:

Yo, I just posted the article, with photos. 

Edited by KJP

"Most of us have been conditioned to regard military combat as exciting and glamorous -- an opportunity for men to prove their competence and courage. Since armies are legal, we feel that war is acceptable; in general, nobody feels that that war is criminal or that accepting it is a criminal attitude. In fact, we have been brainwashed. War is neither glamorous nor attractive. It is monstrous. Its very nature is one of tragedy and suffering" --Dalai Lama

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3 minutes ago, smimes said:

Reno has a bunch of these pedestrian bridges leading straight from their parking garages into the casinos. Want to guess what the livelihood of the street was? Almost none.

 

That stretch of Ontario is one of the most pedestrian-unfriendly roads in all of downtown. This pedestrian bridge is just a way to hide the problem from the casino's patrons instead of actually investing in the future of the area. 

 

Ontario and East 9th street are treated by the city like feeders/extensions of the Interstate  highway system. If the city treated these more as part of the urban setting and invested seed money (I know, fat chance) to foster that, maybe developers wouldn't be seeking these cockamamie gerbil tubes.

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"Most of us have been conditioned to regard military combat as exciting and glamorous -- an opportunity for men to prove their competence and courage. Since armies are legal, we feel that war is acceptable; in general, nobody feels that that war is criminal or that accepting it is a criminal attitude. In fact, we have been brainwashed. War is neither glamorous nor attractive. It is monstrous. Its very nature is one of tragedy and suffering" --Dalai Lama

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I hope this is shot down with a resounding no.  It’s very frustrating the amount of money Dan Gilbert makes in Cleveland and takes to Detroit to build things like Hudson’s Site and Monroe Block.  All the while we’re given things like this and a promised, never delivered Casino Phase II.  
 

Dan Gilbert has done some great things for us like going into the luxury tax to help deliver the city a much needed championship and bringing hundreds of Quicken Loans jobs to downtown.. but stuff like this.. come onnn maaannnn.

Edited by Sapper Daddy
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Too bad Matt isn't on the Planning Commission, but his mayoral appointees will soon be 😉

 

 

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"Most of us have been conditioned to regard military combat as exciting and glamorous -- an opportunity for men to prove their competence and courage. Since armies are legal, we feel that war is acceptable; in general, nobody feels that that war is criminal or that accepting it is a criminal attitude. In fact, we have been brainwashed. War is neither glamorous nor attractive. It is monstrous. Its very nature is one of tragedy and suffering" --Dalai Lama

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25 minutes ago, sizzlinbeef said:

JackCasino-secondpedwalkwayoverOntario2019.jpg

 

The Higbee Buildling, now taking one in both ends.

 

Never thought there would be a DP post on UO. Never.

 

19 minutes ago, marty15 said:

Wait til Bedrock buys the Landmark Building 🙃🐙🐙🐙 

 

 

At least there is an underground connection already there, which is why we don't see more pedestrian activity in the area from the 3,000+ people working and visiting the Landmark every day. 

Edited by KJP
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"Most of us have been conditioned to regard military combat as exciting and glamorous -- an opportunity for men to prove their competence and courage. Since armies are legal, we feel that war is acceptable; in general, nobody feels that that war is criminal or that accepting it is a criminal attitude. In fact, we have been brainwashed. War is neither glamorous nor attractive. It is monstrous. Its very nature is one of tragedy and suffering" --Dalai Lama

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4 hours ago, KJP said:

Seems this walkway has as much to do with the May Company building as it does the casino....

 

Jack Casino Cleveland looks to add second pedestrian bridge over Ontario Street

 

CLEVELAND — Two buildings that once housed two of Cleveland's biggest retailers, Higbees and May Company could soon be connected. Jack Casino Cleveland will present to the Downtown/Flats Design Review Advisory Committee on Thursday for schematic design approval of their plans for a new pedestrian bridge over Ontario Street.

 

MORE:

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/originals/jack-casino-cleveland-looks-to-add-second-pedestrian-bridge-over-ontario-street

 

Some pics....

 

JackCasino-secondpedwalkwayoverOntario2019-4.jpg

 

JackCasino-secondpedwalkwayoverOntario2019-3.jpg

 

JackCasino-secondpedwalkwayoverOntario2019-2.jpg

 

JackCasino-secondpedwalkwayoverOntario2019.jpg

Reminds me of the Clinic campus where it is much more appropriate and practical.

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3 hours ago, Mendo said:

From the article:

 

 

How the hell is a walkway that bypasses the street going to revitalize the street level retail?

 

the lone exception is the Walburger joint that seems to be doing quite well.

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28 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

Really need the Tilted Kilt filled with unique retail option.

There are signs up in the windows of the Tilted Kilt that say "Jack Casino, Something special coming soon"

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8 minutes ago, mack34 said:

There are signs up in the windows of the Tilted Kilt that say "Jack Casino, Something special coming soon"

I really hope it is something "special" and not a TGI Fridays or something.

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Well according to the renderings were getting a "Fresh Organic Grocery".... plus a Dim Sum place so Im super excited about that 😂

 

In all seriousness... I like that the further renovation of the garage and retails bays is addressed here but why do I have a bad feeling that if they get their skywalk that will be where this project ends.  I'm not sure who is in charge of maintaining the outsides of their existing properties but IMO the way the current walkway looks isn't a great sign... the area where it attaches to the Higbee looks cheap and dirty; actually the entire facade of the Higbee looks like it already needs a cleaning.  Plus the area around the "Welcome Center"?  Dead trees and broken streetlights.  And don't get me started on that ridiculous looking "Patio" that is next to Wahlburgers.  

Edited by mrclifton88
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5 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said:

Well according to the renderings were getting a "Fresh Organic Grocery".... plus a Dim Sum place so Im super excited about that 😂

 

In all seriousness... I like that the further renovation of the garage and retails bays is addressed here but why do I have a bad feeling that if they get their skywalk that will be where this project ends.  I'm not sure who is in charge of maintaining the outsides of their existing properties but IMO the way the current walkway looks isn't a great sign... the area where it attaches to the Higbee looks cheap and dirty; actually the entire facade of the Higbee looks like it already needs a cleaning.  Plus the area around the "Welcome Center"?  Dead trees and broken streetlights.  And don't get me started on that ridiculous looking "Patio" that is next to Wahlburgers.  

I would love if that was the real retail coming in.

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Hey Bernie,

 

If you’re on here, it looks like Dan is going behind your back and further remove pedestrians from the Prospect park and entrepreneurial Mecca you’re planning. Can you have a stern talking to him for us?

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6 hours ago, smimes said:

Reno has a bunch of these pedestrian bridges leading straight from their parking garages into the casinos. Want to guess what the livelihood of the street was? Almost none.

 

That stretch of Ontario is one of the most pedestrian-unfriendly roads in all of downtown. This pedestrian bridge is just a way to hide the problem from the casino's patrons instead of actually investing in the future of the area. 

Invest in what? How often do you walk Ontario? The number of times I've been panhandled, followed, verbally threatened, offered by drugs is more than one deserves in a lifetime. Didn't a woman get sexually assaulted there? I know for a fact there have been 2 robberies this year just on that block alone. That street is not viable at all. It's too concentrated with poverty.

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7 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Invest in what? How often do you walk Ontario? The number of times I've been panhandled, followed, verbally threatened, offered by drugs is more than one deserves in a lifetime. Didn't a woman get sexually assaulted there? I know for a fact there have been 2 robberies this year just on that block alone. That street is not viable at all. It's too concentrated with poverty.

 

This may be a contender for dumbest comment ever on these esteemed threads. Have you ever heard of the fairly simple concepts of “eyes on the street” and “broken window theory?” 

 

The symptoms you outline are the direct impact of blackout windows, honkey tubes, and lack of retail. 

 

And yes, I work in Terminal Tower and walk this area constantly. 

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4 minutes ago, Clevecane said:

 

This may be a contender for dumbest comment ever on these esteemed threads. Have you ever heard of the fairly simple concepts of “eyes on the street” and “broken window theory?” 

 

The symptoms you outline are the direct impact of blackout windows, honkey tubes, and lack of retail. 

 

And yes, I work in Terminal Tower and walk this area constantly. 

You should say of that posters prior posts if you want a good laugh

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13 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

You should say of that posters prior posts if you want a good laugh

I am at the point where I don't believe a word this guy (or girl if that is the case) says.

 

I now feel like an idiot for once chastising a poster for calling him/her a troll.

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If that stretch of Ontario was more brightly lit, with more retail and foot traffic, it would not attract panhandlers, drug dealers and other undesirable denizens. The reason they're attracted to that area is because it is dark, isolated and desolate. I don't see another skybridge over the area doing anything but making a bad situation worse.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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44 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I am at the point where I don't believe a word this guy (or girl if that is the case) says.

 

I now feel like an idiot for once chastising a poster for calling him/her a troll.

I think that poster was me lol

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2 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Invest in what? How often do you walk Ontario? The number of times I've been panhandled, followed, verbally threatened, offered by drugs is more than one deserves in a lifetime. Didn't a woman get sexually assaulted there? I know for a fact there have been 2 robberies this year just on that block alone. That street is not viable at all. It's too concentrated with poverty.

 

Bud. I live on Ontario.... 

 

And what you discuss is exactly why that area needs to be revitalized rather than bypassed. 

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5 hours ago, shack said:

Reminds me of the Clinic campus where it is much more appropriate and practical.

These renderings are so damn misleading.  With those idiotic bridges, we become downtown Atlanta.  Those bridges will take all the people shown AT STREET LEVEL right off the street. 

 

There is no need for a second bridge.  I said the first, would lead to a second, and here we are.  All Downtown residents should be against this.  We can't expect to have street level retail when nobody is on the street!

bullshit cartel GIF by VH1

Edited by MyTwoSense
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I really don’t see how the second bridge is really that bad if they go through with fixing up the street level. People going to the casino weather using a cross walk or a bridge are going to the casino. If plans are to go to the casino and you have to use the cross walk what makes anyone think that those people are going to make a pit stop somewhere along the street just because they were not able to use a bridge. If someone really was interested in stopping at something along the street, bridge or no bridge they will make that stop one way or another. For crappy weather I feel having inclosed walk ways would help bring people to the casino and not skip it because the weather sucks. Maybe I’m missing something but I really don’t see how this would take people off the streets other then for the couple of mins it takes to cross the street to get to the casino...

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What's actually a little bit intriguing is that this walkway is intended to link the May Company building development (not just the garage) to Tower City Center. That's why I posted the article and photos in this thread rather than the Casino phase 1 thread.

 

I'm still not a fan of the walkway, but its purpose is more than just about providing casino access to another parking garage.

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"Most of us have been conditioned to regard military combat as exciting and glamorous -- an opportunity for men to prove their competence and courage. Since armies are legal, we feel that war is acceptable; in general, nobody feels that that war is criminal or that accepting it is a criminal attitude. In fact, we have been brainwashed. War is neither glamorous nor attractive. It is monstrous. Its very nature is one of tragedy and suffering" --Dalai Lama

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11 minutes ago, KJP said:

What's actually a little bit intriguing is that this walkway is intended to link the May Company building development (not just the garage) to Tower City Center. That's why I posted the article and photos in this thread rather than the Casino phase 1 thread.

 

I'm still not a fan of the walkway, but its purpose is more than just about providing casino access to another parking garage.

Then my comment is even more valid.  Those residents/potential residents will want neighborhood retail and restaurants in addition to what is already on East 4th. 

 

Why is there a need for this second bridge.  Is/will walking down Prospect or Euclid that much of an inconvenience?

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5 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

It would be the final link that connects all of the Gilbert properties to one another.

 

Without putting on a coat....FWIW.

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"Most of us have been conditioned to regard military combat as exciting and glamorous -- an opportunity for men to prove their competence and courage. Since armies are legal, we feel that war is acceptable; in general, nobody feels that that war is criminal or that accepting it is a criminal attitude. In fact, we have been brainwashed. War is neither glamorous nor attractive. It is monstrous. Its very nature is one of tragedy and suffering" --Dalai Lama

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If someone wants to go to a restaurant or something on the street they will get to it bridge or no bridge. In cold weather knowing you can get to where you want to go while staying inside i feel is a big draw to that location. Having to take a cross walk out side doesn’t force people to stop at street level locations they will just walk past them more times then not. 

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4 minutes ago, PAZUZU said:

If someone wants to go to a restaurant or something on the street they will get to it bridge or no bridge. In cold weather knowing you can get to where you want to go while staying inside i feel is a big draw to that location. Having to take a cross walk out side doesn’t force people to stop at street level locations they will just walk past them more times then not. 

You prove the point that there is no need for either of those bridges.  Its plain old laziness.

 

what proof or source do you have that pedestrians walk past businesses?

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I have no proof it’s just my opinion. I shouldn’t have typed it making it sound like a fact because I can only speak for my self. Though I’m now “poison” on here I still respect you and everyone’s opinion. 

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50 minutes ago, PAZUZU said:

I really don’t see how the second bridge is really that bad if they go through with fixing up the street level. People going to the casino weather using a cross walk or a bridge are going to the casino. If plans are to go to the casino and you have to use the cross walk what makes anyone think that those people are going to make a pit stop somewhere along the street just because they were not able to use a bridge. If someone really was interested in stopping at something along the street, bridge or no bridge they will make that stop one way or another. For crappy weather I feel having inclosed walk ways would help bring people to the casino and not skip it because the weather sucks. Maybe I’m missing something but I really don’t see how this would take people off the streets other then for the couple of mins it takes to cross the street to get to the casino...

 

Because with the skybridge, they won't even get the chance to see what exists on the street.  Downtown businesses thrive on foot traffic.  Starve them of that, and they will not survive.  Skybridges thus create a vicious cycle of sequestering foot traffic into a privatized circulation system while undermining the businesses at street level and eventually leaving vacant buildings, vagrants, and trash behind.

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12 minutes ago, X said:

 

Because with the skybridge, they won't even get the chance to see what exists on the street.  Downtown businesses thrive on foot traffic.  Starve them of that, and they will not survive.  Skybridges thus create a vicious cycle of sequestering foot traffic into a privatized circulation system while undermining the businesses at street level and eventually leaving vacant buildings, vagrants, and trash behind.

 

Does anyone have a study of this? I know I read a few about Minneapolis and the impact privatizing pedestrian activity had (through sky bridges with open/close hours) had on the city and its a) crime, b) economic development—and the decades it took for them to fix the problem... but I can’t seem to find them anywhere. 

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8 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

You prove the point that there is no need for either of those bridges.  Its plain old laziness.

 

what proof or source do you have that pedestrians walk past businesses?

Is it laziness or is it an opportunity to bypass the current unpleasant street atmosphere?

 

Wouldn't it be better to improve the street vs trying to circumvent it?

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2 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Is it laziness or is it an opportunity to bypass the current unpleasant street atmosphere?

 

Wouldn't it be better to improve the street vs trying to circumvent it?

 

So exactly how does taking eyes, ears and feet off the street going to improve the street atmosphere?  

 

You yourself state the obvious and prove my point.  Building a bridge is a recipe for disaster.  Have we learned NOTHING from Tower City's Avenue?

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