Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion

[E Rocc 229]

On 10/7/2019 at 12:41 PM, troeros said:

Look I apologise for my strong language. It's one thing to hear when someone is shot to death because of drug related violence, an angry dispute, etc. By an large most shooters know the victim to some extent. 

 

But when it's a random stranger who was doing his job to earn a paycheck to support himself and gets brutally shot is just so horrible to hear. 

 

Violence by and large is brought by childhood/teenage trauma. No one wants to inheritely cause pain and suffering to others unless onset by a genetical psychological disorder (which is a different matter all together). 

 

I just think of these residents and have to stop and think how much pain and suffering they have experienced and it makes me want to cry. These shooters were once happy, smiling, laughing babies and there environment has ultimately damaged them to hell and back and it just makes me want to breakdown because I can honestly feel the pain, the suffering, the hurt. So much damn hurt...and what can we do to help? Pretty much nothing. So the pain and suffering will continue for them, and their babies. A never ending cycle. 

 

I hear ya, but it's important not to unduly group the victims with the perps.   Yes, some of the residents and a lot of the politicians (in office and otherwise) qualify as enablers.  But assuming people are your adversaries at best is a self fulfilling prophecy if there ever was one.

 

I would say violent outlooks are caused more by role models than trauma.   The solution:  it has to be internal.   Start with some modicum of respect for innocent life.  Hell, even organized crime had that, fifty years ago.   And if you're in power, don't be afraid to call out the problem people.   

[troeros 114]

11 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

I hear ya, but it's important not to unduly group the victims with the perps.   Yes, some of the residents and a lot of the politicians (in office and otherwise) qualify as enablers.  But assuming people are your adversaries at best is a self fulfilling prophecy if there ever was one.

 

I would say violent outlooks are caused more by role models than trauma.   The solution:  it has to be internal.   Start with some modicum of respect for innocent life.  Hell, even organized crime had that, fifty years ago.   And if you're in power, don't be afraid to call out the problem people.   

 

But that's the thing they didn't have role models. They were abandoned like dirt. Absent fathers, mother's with 6 kids, no one cared, no one cares. Why should they care about there life? Someone else's? They are gone, always was since they took their first breath in this world. I want to give them a hug, show them I care. Somehow. 

[MyTwoSense 717]

On 10/7/2019 at 12:41 PM, troeros said:

Look I apologise for my strong language. It's one thing to hear when someone is shot to death because of drug related violence, an angry dispute, etc. By an large most shooters know the victim to some extent. 

 

But when it's a random stranger who was doing his job to earn a paycheck to support himself and gets brutally shot is just so horrible to hear. 

 

Violence by and large is brought by childhood/teenage trauma. No one wants to inheritely cause pain and suffering to others unless onset by a genetical psychological disorder (which is a different matter all together). 

 

I just think of these residents and have to stop and think how much pain and suffering they have experienced and it makes me want to cry. These shooters were once happy, smiling, laughing babies and there environment has ultimately damaged them to hell and back and it just makes me want to breakdown because I can honestly feel the pain, the suffering, the hurt. So much damn hurt...and what can we do to help? Pretty much nothing. So the pain and suffering will continue for them, and their babies. A never ending cycle. 

 

You lumped a lot of people into one bag.  That is ridiculous no matter how many times you apologize.  it's implicit bias.  I live on the eastside and resent being labeled a savage.

 

You write this as if every person who is not at a certain financial or social status is a criminal or lowlife.

[troeros 114]

22 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

 

You lumped a lot of people into one bag.  That is ridiculous no matter how many times you apologize.  it's implicit bias.  I live on the eastside and resent being labeled a savage.

 

You write this as if every person who is not at a certain financial or social status is a criminal or lowlife.

 

That's not what implying at all. I'm saying poverty and social status is the catalyst towards criminal behavior. There have been numerous countless studies done on the link between socioeconomics and the vulnerability towards increased violence and criminal behavior. I wrote a whole thesis on this very subject matter in grad school. 

 

Calling them savages was incorrect and wrong of me and I sincerely apologise for that indecent comment.

Edited October 9 by troeros

[MyTwoSense 717]

1 minute ago, troeros said:

 

That's not what implying at all. I'm saying poverty and social status is the catalyst towards criminal behavior. There have been numerous countless studies done on the link between socioeconomics and the vulnerability towards increased violence and criminal behavior. I wrote a whole thesis on this very subject matter in grad school. 

 

Calling them savages was incorrect and wrong of me and I sincerely apologise for that indecent comment.

 

I only know what you've written.  Not what you "mean".  I don't care what you're thesis is about, you have labeled a group as one thing.  

 

I'm done with this, we are not going to agree.

[E Rocc 229]

15 hours ago, troeros said:

 

But that's the thing they didn't have role models. They were abandoned like dirt. Absent fathers, mother's with 6 kids, no one cared, no one cares. Why should they care about there life? Someone else's? They are gone, always was since they took their first breath in this world. I want to give them a hug, show them I care. Somehow. 

 

Everybody has role models.  What they didn't have was good role models.   For example, every son of a single mom saw her boyfriends as role models, no matter how much she (and her guy) didn't want that.  That's human nature.   I have to watch for that myself, since I have a daughter.

 

Barring that, the guys who had "respect" on the street are their role models.

 

Correlation is not necessarily causation, and pre-providing excuses can be as bad as dismissal

[E Rocc 229]

11 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

 

You lumped a lot of people into one bag.  That is ridiculous no matter how many times you apologize.  it's implicit bias.  I live on the eastside and resent being labeled a savage.

 

You write this as if every person who is not at a certain financial or social status is a criminal or lowlife.

 

I live there too, and MTS and I are pretty close to as different as it gets here, outlook wise anyway.

 

Both of us are light years away, mindset wise, from the perps of this crime.

[KJP 7,722]

WTF??

 

Woman dead after being thrown out of car on I-90 in downtown Cleveland during rush-hour

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/10/woman-dead-after-being-thrown-out-of-car-on-i-90-in-downtown-cleveland-during-rush-hour.html

[E Rocc 229]

21 minutes ago, KJP said:

WTF??

 

Woman dead after being thrown out of car on I-90 in downtown Cleveland during rush-hour

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/10/woman-dead-after-being-thrown-out-of-car-on-i-90-in-downtown-cleveland-during-rush-hour.html

 

Facebook version, from someone who claims to be her cousin, says abusive boyfriend did it.   She was pregnant, too.     I believe that's double murder in Ohio, say hi to the needle.

[MyTwoSense 717]

On 10/22/2019 at 7:46 AM, E Rocc said:

 

Facebook version, from someone who claims to be her cousin, says abusive boyfriend did it.   She was pregnant, too.     I believe that's double murder in Ohio, say hi to the needle.

OMG. This is terrible  I hope they catch this SOB.  

[E Rocc 229]

9 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

OMG. This is terrible  I hope they catch this SOB.  

 

Now the bf is saying she jumped out after an argument, and the cops seem to be considering the possibility.

[surfohio 475]

4 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

Now the bf is saying she jumped out after an argument, and the cops seem to be considering the possibility.

 

This is actually more believable. I mean, how does someone throw another person out of a moving car, while driving? Still terrible.

[KJP 7,722]

 

[KJP 7,722]

 

[Enginerd 324]

Love the vigilante tactic. But nearly striking two people, one a child, with a 2,000 pound weapon should be more than a minor misdemeanor.

 

Our motor vehicle penalties really are much to lax.

[freefourur 872]

54 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

Love the vigilante tactic. But nearly striking two people, one a child, with a 2,000 pound weapon should be more than a minor misdemeanor.

 

Our motor vehicle penalties really are much to lax.

That's because we treat driving as a right rather that a privilege. 

[roman totale XVII 292]

^ Very true, but how else can we get a government ID card, er, I mean driving license, into everyone’s hands?

[KJP 7,722]

 

[surfohio 475]

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/11/man-threatens-to-kill-downtown-cleveland-bar-employee-during-robbery-police-say.html

 

Harris is a registered sex offender who has been convicted in 19 felony cases since 1994, including for burglary in 2019. He was sentenced to three years in prison in 2005 for abduction and gross sexual imposition. The victims in the case were 13 and 14 years old.

 

The fact this guy was ever allowed out of jail is really an indictment on the justice system. 

[Terdolph 142]

14 hours ago, surfohio said:

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/11/man-threatens-to-kill-downtown-cleveland-bar-employee-during-robbery-police-say.html

 

Harris is a registered sex offender who has been convicted in 19 felony cases since 1994, including for burglary in 2019. He was sentenced to three years in prison in 2005 for abduction and gross sexual imposition. The victims in the case were 13 and 14 years old.

 

The fact this guy was ever allowed out of jail is really an indictment on the justice system. 

Whatever happened to "three strikes and you're out"?

[surfohio 475]

53 minutes ago, Terdolph said:

Whatever happened to "three strikes and you're out"?

Apparently in Cuyahoga County it's "nineteen strikes and please keep terrorizing the community, thanks." 

[E Rocc 229]

1575 Merwin used to be "Club Alchemy", no stranger to such things but long since closed.  The Flatiron is next door but closes much earlier.

 

Unlicensed club in operation?

[KJP 7,722]

Might be a rave.

[KJP 7,722]

Not a good Saturday night/Sunday morning. This would be a bad month for a large Canadian city....

 

 

Edited Monday at 09:28 PM by KJP