Cleveland: Crime & Safety Discussion

[E Rocc 260]

9 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

OMG. This is terrible  I hope they catch this SOB.  

 

Now the bf is saying she jumped out after an argument, and the cops seem to be considering the possibility.

[surfohio 541]

4 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

Now the bf is saying she jumped out after an argument, and the cops seem to be considering the possibility.

 

This is actually more believable. I mean, how does someone throw another person out of a moving car, while driving? Still terrible.

[KJP 9,184]

 

[KJP 9,184]

 

[Enginerd 342]

Love the vigilante tactic. But nearly striking two people, one a child, with a 2,000 pound weapon should be more than a minor misdemeanor.

 

Our motor vehicle penalties really are much to lax.

[freefourur 955]

54 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

Love the vigilante tactic. But nearly striking two people, one a child, with a 2,000 pound weapon should be more than a minor misdemeanor.

 

Our motor vehicle penalties really are much to lax.

That's because we treat driving as a right rather that a privilege. 

[roman totale XVII 304]

^ Very true, but how else can we get a government ID card, er, I mean driving license, into everyone’s hands?

[KJP 9,184]

 

[surfohio 541]

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/11/man-threatens-to-kill-downtown-cleveland-bar-employee-during-robbery-police-say.html

 

Harris is a registered sex offender who has been convicted in 19 felony cases since 1994, including for burglary in 2019. He was sentenced to three years in prison in 2005 for abduction and gross sexual imposition. The victims in the case were 13 and 14 years old.

 

The fact this guy was ever allowed out of jail is really an indictment on the justice system. 

[surfohio 541]

53 minutes ago, Terdolph said:

Whatever happened to "three strikes and you're out"?

Apparently in Cuyahoga County it's "nineteen strikes and please keep terrorizing the community, thanks." 

[E Rocc 260]

1575 Merwin used to be "Club Alchemy", no stranger to such things but long since closed.  The Flatiron is next door but closes much earlier.

 

Unlicensed club in operation?

[KJP 9,184]

Might be a rave.

[KJP 9,184]

Not a good Saturday night/Sunday morning. This would be a bad month for a large Canadian city....

 

 

Edited December 2, 2019 by KJP

[KJP 9,184]

This would be considered a bad half-year in a medium-sized Canadian city like Hamilton or Quebec....

 

8 people shot, 1 fatally, in 6 separate shootings on Cleveland's East Side Saturday

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/8-people-shot-1-fatally-in-6-separate-shootings-on-clevelands-east-side-saturday

[MayDay 1,005]

Okay everyone, let's put up a few hundred hand-wringing posts so Terdolph knows we really truly find gun violence disturbing. 

[MuRrAy HiLL 426]

On 12/2/2019 at 4:27 PM, KJP said:

Not a good Saturday night/Sunday morning. This would be a bad month for a large Canadian city....

 

 

 To me, sounds like those first three are related... i. e.  random shootings due to the close proximity to each other. 

[KJP 9,184]

Good article. Love the photos....

 

Notorious Cleveland gangster Shondor Birns' wild life and explosive death detailed in book (vintage photos)

https://www.cleveland.com/life-and-culture/g66l-2019/12/05de895e598298/notorious-cleveland-gangster-shondor-birns-wild-life-and-explosive-death-detailed-in-book-vintage-photos.html

[Cleburger 542]

7 hours ago, KJP said:

Good article. Love the photos....

 

Man that photo of 55th/Woodland.   Unbelievable!   

 

Also--true to PD form several of the photos are misdated, labeled 1953 with 60's era cars in the photos.    

[KJP 9,184]

I don't trust Bill Barr that this is anything more than targeting minorities...

 

Barr announces crackdown targeting violent crime in seven US cities

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/475156-barr-announces-crackdown-targeting-violent-crime-in-seven-us-cities

[E Rocc 260]

On 12/15/2019 at 2:16 PM, KJP said:

Good article. Love the photos....

 

Notorious Cleveland gangster Shondor Birns' wild life and explosive death detailed in book (vintage photos)

https://www.cleveland.com/life-and-culture/g66l-2019/12/05de895e598298/notorious-cleveland-gangster-shondor-birns-wild-life-and-explosive-death-detailed-in-book-vintage-photos.html

 

He drops his bomb so casually.   (Pun intended).   I'm hoping for clarification later on.

[E Rocc 260]

31 minutes ago, KJP said:

I don't trust Bill Barr that this is anything more than targeting minorities...

 

Barr announces crackdown targeting violent crime in seven US cities

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/475156-barr-announces-crackdown-targeting-violent-crime-in-seven-us-cities

 

Keep in mind that the victims of these particular criminals are disproportionately minorities as well.

 

I suspect this has more to do with the attempted federalization of law enforcement that the non-statist right has long opposed.

 

Even reference “The West Wing” when Bartlett interviews Judge Mulready.

[Cavalier Attitude 52]

I doubt these federal law enforcement officers are big on "community policing". What are they going to be doing?

[E Rocc 260]

1 hour ago, Cavalier Attitude said:

I doubt these federal law enforcement officers are big on "community policing". What are they going to be doing?

 

Cherry picking.   Much like OSP "helping" by running radar on the interstates rather than patrolling neighborhoods.

[KFM44107 221]

51 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Cherry picking.   Much like OSP "helping" by running radar on the interstates rather than patrolling neighborhoods.

Their mission is not really to patrol. They enforce traffic laws on state routes and highways. They don't answer calls for service like the traditional police. On top of that there has already been jurisdictional fights between them and the city. 

 

The 71 million will be going to local governments to hire local police. We are so short staffed in our specialized departments due to retirements and ramping up that federal help would be appreciated in the short term. Most of our patrol officers literally go from call to call, especially in the fourth district. Due to the need to keep patrol staffed they haven't been replacing people in specialized units. We put through 150 officers a year and lose 100 to retirement and other things. 

[E Rocc 260]

11 hours ago, KFM44107 said:

Their mission is not really to patrol. They enforce traffic laws on state routes and highways. They don't answer calls for service like the traditional police. On top of that there has already been jurisdictional fights between them and the city. 

 

The 71 million will be going to local governments to hire local police. We are so short staffed in our specialized departments due to retirements and ramping up that federal help would be appreciated in the short term. Most of our patrol officers literally go from call to call, especially in the fourth district. Due to the need to keep patrol staffed they haven't been replacing people in specialized units. We put through 150 officers a year and lose 100 to retirement and other things. 

 

From context, I take it you're with CPD?   

 

I was just observing recently that the specialized units seem very short handed lately.   Particularly auto theft and homicide.

 

As for the latter, it does seem to me that the city is a lot safer for the general public than the numbers would indicate, and most homicides or near misses are tied to gangs and the drug trade.  

[KFM44107 221]

2 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

From context, I take it you're with CPD?   

 

I was just observing recently that the specialized units seem very short handed lately.   Particularly auto theft and homicide.

 

As for the latter, it does seem to me that the city is a lot safer for the general public than the numbers would indicate, and most homicides or near misses are tied to gangs and the drug trade.  

I'm in the academy presently. Homicides are pretty steady but violent crimes in general are up. You are absolutely correct that most of it is gang related or drug trade (heroin related). Heroin is such a big issue and it takes alot of man hours from police to handle situations with ODs and violence.

Alot of our resources are being pushed to handle that straining other departments even further. 

[KJP 9,184]

Merry Christmas...

 

[Sapper Daddy 316]

Not saying this didn’t happen, and not saying crime takes a break on a holiday.. but more times than not safety forces arrive and learn these calls are not as advertised.

 

Merry Christmas everyone!  Support local business, enjoy a Great Lakes Xmas Ale!

[downtownjoe 28]

Moving conversation about the shooting that happened outside of Medusa:
  

3 hours ago, roman totale XVII said:

It’s certainly the second, possibly the third, shooting incident at that club in the last 12 months or so. 

On top of the other shootings, there are weekly street races happening right outside the club late at night around 2am/3am. While I agree with you @inlovewithCLE, Medusa is wild at best. Celebrities visiting is at the bottom of the list when it comes to building and maintaining a safe downtown/neighborhood. If we want celebrities to visit/live here, we need to make sure shootings and street racing are not occurring.

Side Note: it's ridiculous the police haven't caught onto the street racing yet. It also takes place on Prospect Ave with patrons from Chicago’s Home of Chicken & Waffles. The restaurant occasionally turns into a club at night.

[freefourur 955]

4 minutes ago, downtownjoe said:

Side Note: it's ridiculous the police haven't caught onto the street racing yet. It also takes place on Prospect Ave with patrons from Chicago’s Home of Chicken & Waffles. The restaurant occasionally turns into a club at night.

 

I'm surprised about Chicago's Home. I went there with my wife to catch some live jazz and have dinner and it seemed like a laid back place. 

[downtownjoe 28]

30 minutes ago, freefourur said:

 

I'm surprised about Chicago's Home. I went there with my wife to catch some live jazz and have dinner and it seemed like a laid back place. 

Over the last few months, I've heard and seen some things on Prospect outside of the restaurant that I never saw in the past three years:

 

Fights
Nothing out of the ordinary for a place that has a drunk crowd. The bad part is these fights usually spill onto the street and it looks like a scene from a Saturday night on West 6th except there are no police or law enforcement to be found. I wish they'd keep it on the sidewalk or elsewhere and quit forcing people driving down the road to reroute their drive and residents on the street to lose sleep.
 

Street racing
This is the most aggravating one. Cars and motorcycles speeding from East 14th and Prospect down to East 9th and Prospect. I did some "research" out of my window which has a view of the entire street and patrons from the restaurant after close were involved in every aspect of the race (driving, filming, cheering, etc.). Next morning you'll walk down to broken bottles of wine or liquor on the sidewalks where the same people were seen cheering, screaming, filming, etc. All of this happens after close (2am/3am).

 

I know a place can't be responsible for their patrons after they leave their establishment. Overall, it's a bad look for the city. Prospect is starting to come back to life with places like Chicago's home, Domino's, a yoga place, a dispensary, businesses, condo/apartments, etc. but the only time I see law enforcement or the city caring about the street is when there's a parking ban. These street races/street brawls and broken bottles littering the sidewalk should be of the cities concern.

[freefourur 955]

I do remember one of the front windows was boarded up because we sat the bar and it felt cold. I wonder if some fighting was the cause of the busted window.

[inlovewithCLE 411]

1 hour ago, downtownjoe said:

Moving conversation about the shooting that happened outside of Medusa:
  

On top of the other shootings, there are weekly street races happening right outside the club late at night around 2am/3am. While I agree with you @inlovewithCLE, Medusa is wild at best. Celebrities visiting is at the bottom of the list when it comes to building and maintaining a safe downtown/neighborhood. If we want celebrities to visit/live here, we need to make sure shootings and street racing are not occurring.

Side Note: it's ridiculous the police haven't caught onto the street racing yet. It also takes place on Prospect Ave with patrons from Chicago’s Home of Chicken & Waffles. The restaurant occasionally turns into a club at night.

One point I need to reiterate: I didn’t say celebrities. I said BLACK celebrities. I reiterate that because there are very few places in this city tailored to a black audience and that’s a problem. And if you want to keep development going unimpeded, it’s probably a good idea to do more than build things that are attractive to white people. And I’m not saying those things are bad. I partake in some of them. But I’m sick of what we want (I’m black) not even being part of the conversation, not even being a thought, and it seems like we’re going in that direction here on this forum too. Now obviously if Medusa is a consistent problem then it has to be dealt with. But what I’m saying is don’t be so quick and so glib with closing black oriented venues in this city when there are already so few of them to begin with, especially ones that attract black celebrities. Don’t just brush that off. That brings real money too. That helps with the city too. I’ve said before how I’ve directly seen our lack of venues for black people hurt us in a business sense. Black folks feel like the rejuvenation of Cleveland doesn’t include them and if that continues to be the (real or perceived) truth, it’s gonna be a problem for all of us who want to see the city continue to grow. Tread lightly 

Edited January 2 by inlovewithCLE

[downtownjoe 28]

1 hour ago, inlovewithCLE said:

One point I need to reiterate: I didn’t say celebrities. I said BLACK celebrities. I reiterate that because there are very few places in this city tailored to a black audience and that’s a problem. And if you want to keep development going unimpeded, it’s probably a good idea to do more than build things that are attractive to white people. And I’m not saying those things are bad. I partake in some of them. But I’m sick of what we want (I’m black) not even being part of the conversation, not even being a thought, and it seems like we’re going in that direction here on this forum too. Now obviously if Medusa is a consistent problem then it has to be dealt with. But what I’m saying is don’t be so quick and so glib with closing black oriented venues in this city when there are already so few of them to begin with, especially ones that attract black celebrities. Don’t just brush that off. That brings real money too. That helps with the city too. I’ve said before how I’ve directly seen our lack of venues for black people hurt us in a business sense. Black folks feel like the rejuvenation of Cleveland doesn’t include them and if that continues to be the (real or perceived) truth, it’s gonna be a problem for all of us who want to see the city continue to grow. Tread lightly 

Your concern is valid. As a white male, I've seen discrimination toward people of color (friends included) at places and venues I have no problems at. Systemic racism has no place in Cleveland. People of color should have and own places and venues downtown. I frequent East End and re:bar, both of them typically are a majority people of color when I am there. I've never had or seen issues aside from the occasional fight at East End (bystander).

That being said, violence of any kind, in the form of multiple instances especially, cannot be tolerated no matter the race of the owners or majority of the patrons. The other big problem, other than the multiple shootings, is that you see no comments/outreach/effort from Medusa to let the public know things of that nature will not be tolerated. You see no public effort to calm the neighborhood, protect their patrons, etc. I don't care if a drill rapper was in town at their New Years party, it's unacceptable to put your customers in that position and neighborhood in that light. They should own it, find a way to try and mitigate the issue/worry it has caused. If they can't do that, their venue shouldn't be welcomed into the neighborhood. No one, black or white, wants to live or patronize venues that increase the chances of something unsafe occurring.

Edited January 2 by downtownjoe
clarifying

[inlovewithCLE 411]

1 hour ago, downtownjoe said:

Your concern is valid. As a white male, I've seen discrimination toward people of color (friends included) at places and venues I have no problems at. Systemic racism has no place in Cleveland. People of color should have and own places and venues downtown. I frequent East End and re:bar, both of them typically are a majority people of color when I am there. I've never had or seen issues aside from the occasional fight at East End (bystander).

That being said, violence of any kind, in the form of multiple instances especially, cannot be tolerated no matter the race of the owners or majority of the patrons. The other big problem, other than the multiple shootings, is that you see no comments/outreach/effort from Medusa to let the public know things of that nature will not be tolerated. You see no public effort to calm the neighborhood, protect their patrons, etc. I don't care if a drill rapper was in town at their New Years party, it's unacceptable to put your customers in that position and neighborhood in that light. They should own it, find a way to try and mitigate the issue/worry it has caused. If they can't do that, their venue shouldn't be welcomed into the neighborhood. No one, black or white, wants to live or patronize venues that increase the chances of something unsafe occurring.

I agree with that. Like I said, if Medusa is a consistent problem then it has to be dealt with. My fear is that our community isnt ever even thought about at the table when we discuss these things and if Medusa does have to shut down, what’s there to fill the void? From the history in Cleveland, the answer is nothing. That’s what I’m concerned about. That’s why I don’t want to be so glib about it. Medusa has had a positive impact in the image of the city in many ways. It’s unfortunate that crap like this is happening. But if we lose them, what will fill the void? Does anybody even care? And it feels like they don’t. Cleveland nightlife is notorious for being bigoted and segregationist. I won’t say any names but there’s a Cleveland club in particular that is world renowned for its racism. It’s something to think about when we weigh all of these topics and I want that to be on the table

[newyorker 86]

The place is not the issue, bad people are the issue!  Bad people are white, black, purple and green.  The question I have is what compels anyone to pull out a gun to show how tough they are?  The deeper issue is understanding the social economic reasons for this behavior and beginning to address it. I believe this is happening with some very positive improvement in the schools.  As second area starts at home and I will not share my thoughts on this as it is too complicated.

 

There also needs to be steeper consequences for ones actions.  For instance, in New York, if you are in criminal position of a firearm, its automatically 1 year term.  Just ask Plaxico Burress.  While Ohio has different firearm laws, there needs to be more effective deterrent.   Just a few thoughts on my end.

[troeros 113]

30 minutes ago, newyorker said:

The place is not the issue, bad people are the issue!  Bad people are white, black, purple and green.  The question I have is what compels anyone to pull out a gun to show how tough they are?  The deeper issue is understanding the social economic reasons for this behavior and beginning to address it. I believe this is happening with some very positive improvement in the schools.  As second area starts at home and I will not share my thoughts on this as it is too complicated.

 

There also needs to be steeper consequences for ones actions.  For instance, in New York, if you are in criminal position of a firearm, its automatically 1 year term.  Just ask Plaxico Burress.  While Ohio has different firearm laws, there needs to be more effective deterrent.   Just a few thoughts on my end.

 

Seems like ny has replaced guns with knives, machetes and fists. Look at the female college student who was knifed to death by the 14 year old teen, or the rabbi and Jews being attacked in Brooklyn. 

 

I don't think their is a cure for violence. To many kids were raised in dysfunctional homes and we end up seeing the fallout years later...and if it's not the home life then it's severe mental illness and brain chemical imbalance that causes severe abnormal spikes in aggression and lack of empathy...but we closed down all the mental institutions decades ago.

 

The reality about this world today is that you need to be aware of your surroundings and carry protection with you. When your alone on the street with 3 teenages coming straight at you and begin pushing and shoving you and then stomping you on the ground till your brain cracks open are you gonna just sit there and let your death happen over what's in your wallet?

 

Edited January 2 by troeros

[surfohio 541]

Good lord. The other day I was just making fun of my Floridian gf because news stations in FLA had warning segments against this sort of thing. I had no idea people actually did this in this country.

 

Turns out the victim and the shooter in this case were friends of friends of mine. They both worked in popular restaurants. 

 

https://www.cleveland.com/crime/2020/01/cleveland-man-charged-in-girlfriends-death-while-firing-celebratory-gunshots-new-years-day.html

[inlovewithCLE 411]

23 minutes ago, Terdolph said:

Disenfranchisement of blacks is an issue.  However, it is probably inevitable as more and wealthier whites move back into the city.  I think it is something that has to be accepted, just as whites accepted their disenfranchisement in cities like E. Cleveland in the 40's and 50's. 

 

Everybody gets their turn.

That’s garbage, and I don’t even know if I should respond to that nonsense with what I want to say out of fear of getting dinged by the trigger happy mods. But what you said about accepting black disenfranchisement is bigoted and you know it, as well as your false ass narrative (Whites didnt “accept” so called disenfranchisement in East Cleveland. They moved instead of living integrated). People like you thinking that it’s a zero sum game (if I win, that means you lose) is one of the biggest contributors to American racism today. That was SO bigoted and dismissive. I still can’t believe you just said that, in writing at that lol. Well it’s always good to know where people are coming from and now that I know this is how you think, I’ll interact accordingly. Wow.

[MayDay 1,005]

Funny how certain people love to accuse the Admins and Mods of being “trigger happy” when it comes to shutting bullsh!t down, especially when it’s not their time and effort being used to clean things up and keep threads on topic. Seems like a microcosm in some ways...