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Who will be her replacement? I know the article said she didn't say who--but if she leaves office this Friday, vs, a month ago, there will not be need for an election--so i assume she has a replacement in mind.

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11 hours ago, Pugu said:

Who will be her replacement? I know the article said she didn't say who--but if she leaves office this Friday, vs, a month ago, there will not be need for an election--so i assume she has a replacement in mind.

 

What's the odds it will be a wholly-unqualified family member?  

 

 

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I saw a comment on Cleveland.com where someone suggested that Dan Brady was going to run for County Exec and she was going to take his place on County Council...  seems pretty reasonable.  I'm still in disbelief that Dan beat out Chris Ronayne for that position so many years ago.  Dan didn't even campaign.  Sad commentary on the voters.

 

I'm not really convinced the measure to reduce council size and salary will pass.  How many voters will turn out for this?  How informed are they?

 

I don't actually support term limits because of the good work of people like Polensek but I would definitely support reducing council wards and adding a handful of "at large" representatives to ensure some good policy is implemented

Edited by gottaplan

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On 1/28/2020 at 9:53 AM, gottaplan said:

I'm not really convinced the measure to reduce council size and salary will pass.  How many voters will turn out for this?  How informed are they?

 

I don't actually support term limits because of the good work of people like Polensek but I would definitely support reducing council wards and adding a handful of "at large" representatives to ensure some good policy is implemented

 

Agreed on this--hopefully council will hear some of the arguments from constituents after this BS Tony George initiative passes.  


It's a shame everyone in Cleveland proper can't get something on the ballot in Westlake to screw with him.  

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Good news: Ballot Measures To Reduce Pay And Size Of Cleveland City Council Shelved

 

https://wcpn.ideastream.org/news/ballot-measures-to-reduce-pay-and-size-of-cleveland-city-council-shelved

 

“The group aiming to reduce the size and pay of Cleveland City Council will remove those two measures from the March ballot and will instead support a study from an accredited university that will make recommendations about the 17-member body.”

 

 

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One man's good news is another's bad. The pay should remain, but the size needs to contract.

 

Though this quote probably didn't help: "You got Little Italy, then you got Tremont, Ohio City, Playhouse Square, Kamm's Corner, Detroit Shoreway and in between, no disrespect because it's not the council people's faults, it's the leadership and the mayor's fault, you've got Afghanistan and Iraq," George said. "It's unsafe."

 

A wealthy guy from Westlake should be sensitive with that kind of rhetoric. 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

I wonder what kind of backlash George received to back down so quickly?   

 

Did you just spell "baksheesh" wrong, I wonder.

 

Say what you want about George, he doesn't cave to threats  easy or often.   

Edited by E Rocc

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21 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Did you just spell "baksheesh" wrong, I wonder.

 

Say what you want about George, he doesn't cave to threats  easy or often.   

 

Well, in this case he went from ballot issue to "well maybe a academic university study is more appropriate" in a matter of a couple weeks.   Caved he did.  

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12 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

Well, in this case he went from ballot issue to "well maybe a academic university study is more appropriate" in a matter of a couple weeks.   Caved he did.  

 

Or got what he wanted in exchange for dropping it.

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16 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Or got what he wanted in exchange for dropping it.

 

We shall see if he actually pays for a "libtard" university study....

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7 hours ago, TBideon said:

One man's good news is another's bad. The pay should remain, but the size needs to contract.

 

For the most part I agree with you on reducing the size of council, and I think making some of the seats at-large would also be good. I was primarily concerned with the drastic pay cut. It’s hard enough to get good candidates to run. 

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^If other cities have at-large seats, how do they do them? Are some seats for specific wards/districts and some are at-large?  And what cities do this?  

 

I'm glad this thing was taken off the ballot. Lowering pay was just crazy (and sounds vindictive) and reducing seats also not a good idea. I remember when we had 33-members for Council. How would any committee work get done with only 9 members? everyone would be on the same committees. Makes no sense for a city the size and stature of Cleveland.

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On 2/3/2020 at 8:43 PM, Pugu said:

^If other cities have at-large seats, how do they do them? Are some seats for specific wards/districts and some are at-large?  And what cities do this?  

 

I'm glad this thing was taken off the ballot. Lowering pay was just crazy (and sounds vindictive) and reducing seats also not a good idea. I remember when we had 33-members for Council. How would any committee work get done with only 9 members? everyone would be on the same committees. Makes no sense for a city the size and stature of Cleveland.

 

It depends on the city, some have a mix of ward and at-large council members, some have one or the other. My hometown (Mansfield) has a mix of ward and at-large seats. Akron also has a mix (13 total, 3 of which are at-large).

 

Cincinnati has a 9 member city council and all seats are at-large (interestingly until 1925 they had 32 members and it was a mix of at-large and ward seats). Columbus is also all at-large seats (7 total), but I believe there have been issues with council and wanting to change the make-up or rules. Like Cleveland, they've also had issues with resigning members appointing their replacements who then get an unfair advantage when the voters finally get a chance to have a say.

 

As for other cities:

  • Detroit - Mix (9 total, 2 at-large)
  • Pittsburgh - Ward (9)
  • Minneapolis - Ward (13)
  • Milwaukee - Ward (15)
  • Nashville - Mix (40 total, 5 at-large but note they have a consolidated city-county government)
  • Chicago - Ward (50)
  • Los Angeles - Ward (15)
  • Seattle - Mix (9, 2 at-large)
  • Atlanta - Mix (16, 3 at-large and a separately elected council president)
  • Denver - Mix (13, 2 at-large)
  • Houston - Mix (16, 5 at-large)

 

I've said this before, but I think having a mix of wards and at-large members would be better as there are major draw backs from having just one or the other. We also need major reforms for how council functions (like how we replace resigning members) and there were definitely shenanigans pulled when our ward boundaries were last redrawn (lookin at you wards 1, 6, 10 and 11). And since our city had previously amended the charter to tie the number of seats to population, I think we'll probably loose a seat or two after the 2020 census numbers come out.

Edited by andrew0816
For clarity

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^Thanks.

 

With the seats tied to population, is there a cap?   That is, if we had 200,000 MORE people, do we then have to add 8 more council people?

 

I definitely like the idea of a council person being an advocate of a given area---that's how legislature should work. Imagine if Congress was at large, who would look out for North Dakota?  But the idea of a few 'at-large' seats are interesting too as it may serve as a better check on the mayor and also individual council members that may be doing shady things---it would allow other council people 'access' into that once-protected ward.

 

Looking at the number of council people by city, there's no way CLE should go from 17 to 9.  We are fine with 17--and that's a bare minimum--i'd say we were better off with 21.

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Not related to ward/at-large split, but I went through a couple years ago and researched the city councils of the 100 largest cities in the US and ranked them by city council members per capita. Cleveland ranked 6th in the country as having the largest city council per capita. Full 100: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B16RJdSArUFaT2tva29ZRFdvY1U/view?usp=sharing 

image.png

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^Great list, thank you. Its amazing how SMALL LA's city council is--only 15 people. NYC at 51 seems about right. St. Louis at 28 reminds me of how CLE used be at 33 when I was growing up.

 

The responsibilities of cities varies by state----so comparing CLE using per capita to places without home rule or where its not practiced won't give very usable outputs.

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What would Cleveland look like with nine wards? Dramatically larger wards with diminished neighborhood identities

Robert Higgs - Feb. 6, 2020 - 11:19 AM

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/02/what-would-cleveland-look-like-with-nine-wards-dramatically-larger-wards-with-diminished-neighborhood-identities.html

 

"Today, cleveland.com offers one possible scenario. Using the most recent U.S. Census population estimates, from 2014-2018, we created nine wards that have roughly equal populations and have as few as possible neighborhoods straddling ward lines. Our approach is just one of many approaches possible. But it provides a look at the impact the reduction issue could have."

 

 

image.thumb.png.f8d7d17940b05447dc444eba86a1dc50.png

 

 

image.thumb.png.d47e5e8f0743da0980c1e10d235e2011.png

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On 2/3/2020 at 1:05 PM, Cleburger said:

 

We shall see if he actually pays for a "libtard" university study....

 

There's always Hillsdale. 

 

Perhaps at their new Oberlin campus if they keep trying to push off the Gibson's.  🙂

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12 hours ago, NorthShore647 said:

What would Cleveland look like with nine wards? Dramatically larger wards with diminished neighborhood identities

Robert Higgs - Feb. 6, 2020 - 11:19 AM

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/02/what-would-cleveland-look-like-with-nine-wards-dramatically-larger-wards-with-diminished-neighborhood-identities.html

 

"Today, cleveland.com offers one possible scenario. Using the most recent U.S. Census population estimates, from 2014-2018, we created nine wards that have roughly equal populations and have as few as possible neighborhoods straddling ward lines. Our approach is just one of many approaches possible. But it provides a look at the impact the reduction issue could have."

 

 

image.thumb.png.f8d7d17940b05447dc444eba86a1dc50.png

 

 

image.thumb.png.d47e5e8f0743da0980c1e10d235e2011.png

 

It's a horrible, marketable idea.

 

As soon as I saw that TG was behind it, I figured he wanted something from council and this was his bargaining chip.

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I can't speak to the logic of the suggested districts' borders, but I am loving the effort. Regionalization/Consolidation begins at the core.

Edited by TBideon

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20 minutes ago, TBideon said:

I can't speak to the logic of the suggested districts' borders, but I am loving the effort. Regionalization/Consolidation begins at the core.

Agree 100%


And they reckon that the last thing she saw in her life was
Sting, singing on the roof of the Barbican

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I think reducing the number of city council seats to 11 could work. You then would have 5 wards each for the east & west side with downtown being 1.

 

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2 minutes ago, ctown60 said:

I think reducing the number of city council seats to 11 could work. You then would have 5 wards each for the east & west side with downtown being 1.

 

 

I am all for reducing government waste, by my council office is the ONE aspect of Cleveland government functions that actually seems to work well.    I can email Matt Zone and expect a personal response from him or his staff within a day, which is not the case for nearly any other department I've tried to interact with.  

 

As an aside, I'm still on the hunt for how many employees the City of Cleveland maintained in 1950, at the peak of its population.   I believe the city is at about 6,500 full time employee today.  

 

 

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On 2/6/2020 at 4:23 PM, Pugu said:

With the seats tied to population, is there a cap?   That is, if we had 200,000 MORE people, do we then have to add 8 more council people?

 

@Pugu There actually is a cap and a floor, the number of wards can't exceed 25 and can't be fewer than 11 (Cleveland Ordinances, Chapter 5, Section 25). There's even a chart that shows how many wards there should be within certain population ranges. So yeah, if we added 200k people we would cap out at 25 wards.

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5 hours ago, andrew0816 said:

 

@Pugu There actually is a cap and a floor, the number of wards can't exceed 25 and can't be fewer than 11 (Cleveland Ordinances, Chapter 5, Section 25). There's even a chart that shows how many wards there should be within certain population ranges. So yeah, if we added 200k people we would cap out at 25 wards.

 

Thanks for this. I'm good with a cap at 25. I guess if the city makes it to 2-3M this issue can be looked at again, so its fine for now.  Regarding 11 members for "275,000 or less" that would be a sad day indeed for CLE if that ever became our population.

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