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Cincinnati: Downtown: Fort Washington Way Cap Project

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Yea, I was surprised that wasn't mentioned.


"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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Agreed. Little to no maintenance has been done, it's very narrow in areas, and the bricks are very uneven..


"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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I've always thought form an aesthetic standpoint there are one too many lanes on both Second and Third.  Narrowing each by one lane could make a big difference, however street trees near the curb might not be a possibility due to the Transit Center beneath 2nd and

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Hey, check this out:

 

Casino to pay for streetcars

 

By Jane Prendergast jprendergast@enquirer.com  September 30, 2010

 

Other priorities were approved without showing up on a public agenda and without public input: 25 percent to streetcar operations, 14 percent to city facilities, 10 percent for decks over Fort Washington Way and 1 percent for outdoor sculptures.

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^ I noticed that too.  The Enquirer article was too busy physco-analyizing the Mayor to realize that there was pretty significant news about the FWW decks that came out of the meeting yesterday.

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I have to say that this is a pretty good use of these funds.  The Port needs to be funded, and it is to be expected that the percentage of funds it gets will go on in perpetuity. 

 

Second, the funds for streetcar operations should be temporary.  Obviously the economic development (and therefore tax gains) from the streetcar won't be realized immediately, so this expense makes sense.  However, the City administration should really try and move the operating costs from general revenues to revenues that stem directly from the economic development area around the streetcar.  While I fully believe the Streetcar to be the best project the City has undertaken in decades, ultimately a certain amount of justice requires that the areas that benefits most contribute most.

 

Third, the caps are a great value add to that area, and are obviously a limited expense.  I think it might be a good idea for the City to consider this percentage of funds to be a consistent set aside for capital projects like the caps.  After the caps are done, they can move onto other projects.

 

Let's hope the outdoor sculptures look cool.

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I have to say that this is a pretty good use of these funds. The Port needs to be funded, and it is to be expected that the percentage of funds it gets will go on in perpetuity.

 

Second, the funds for streetcar operations should be temporary. Obviously the economic development (and therefore tax gains) from the streetcar won't be realized immediately, so this expense makes sense. However, the City administration should really try and move the operating costs from general revenues to revenues that stem directly from the economic development area around the streetcar. While I fully believe the Streetcar to be the best project the City has undertaken in decades, ultimately a certain amount of justice requires that the areas that benefits most contribute most.

 

You could also look at the streetcar funding from the casino as a way to reward the neighborhoods directly around the casino with something they want and will benefit from for having to deal with the negative externalities produced by the casino

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^That's a good point, though most of the chatter about the Casino struck me as being that it will materially benefit the neighborhoods in the vicinity, at the in the sense it will benefit the property owners and certain businesses, which isn't necessarily the same thing as "the neighborhood."

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^That's a good point, though most of the chatter about the Casino struck me as being that it will materially benefit the neighborhoods in the vicinity, at the in the sense it will benefit the property owners and certain businesses, which isn't necessarily the same thing as "the neighborhood."

 

The mayor has said that after the streetcar, FWW caps are his next infrastructure priority.  BlackBengal was right, the Enquirer completely missed that and preferred to focus on the nitty gritty details of the relationships and discussions between council-members.  They sure love to hate the mayor (and the city overall). I also enjoyed the, 'he met with democrats and other groups of council members'.  They could have said republicans, the independent or the chartierite, (there are only a few of them!) but that's less politically charged...

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>it will materially benefit the neighborhoods in the vicinity,

 

Funny how people were/are cool with OTR being boosted by economic activity generated by the Broadway Commons stadium and the casino, but not the streetcar. 

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^ City council has

3 Democrats

3 Republicans

2 Charterites

1 Independent

 

 

Oh I know- I go to council meetings from time to time.  Technically its 3 dems 1 dem/charterite, 1 charterite, 1 independent and 3 repubs, but ya.  Either way- To say 'met with the democrats and others' could have very easily specified what others.  ie., Berding, Bortz, Winburn, etc. Instead it has a decidedly partisan slant to it.

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^ City council has

3 Democrats

3 Republicans

2 Charterites

1 Independent

 

 

Oh I know- I go to council meetings from time to time. Technically its 3 dems 1 dem/charterite, 1 charterite, 1 independent and 3 repubs, but ya. Either way- To say 'met with the democrats and others' could have very easily specified what others. ie., Berding, Bortz, Winburn, etc. Instead it has a decidedly partisan slant to it.

 

Although I could be reading way too far into it... haha

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It's also interesting to note that Thomas, one of only three Democrats, seems to be the most vocally opposed to the mayor's methods. That's a pretty strong blow to the partisan framework the Enquirer was trying to portray.

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Lincoln: more likely Thomas is positioning himself for a future campaign for higher office.  One with ad like: "When on city council Thomas publicly opposed the back-room methods of Mayor Mallory... Thomas for transparency, Thomas for order."  Or some BS

 

Back on topic its great to hear about the CAPS.  10% is roughly 2M/year, but the 2M/year is more important as a matching fund balance when applying for grants and hopefully would put us in better standing for future applications.

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Maybe jmecklenborg can sort this one out: Is the 46M-50M that is generally quoted on the project for all 4 caps (2 fulls and 2 partials)?

 

In that case is it realistic to say that with this funding, even without grants, we could have at least 1 cap in place in 6-7 years?

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So Thomas' concerns are purely self-serving?

 

Has any at the city described what the caps would accomplish? Ie parks, buildings etc?

 

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So Thomas' concerns are purely self-serving?

 

Has any at the city described what the caps would accomplish? Ie parks, buildings etc?

 

I hope the sculpture funding is a hint, but at this point there aren't even solid plans to do the capping. Once that becomes closer to reality, I'd guess there will be more talk about what to do with them. If a developer comes forward with plans for buildings, I have a feeling the city would be receptive to the idea. I don't think the city will itself be building commercial, office, or residential space, however.

 

How cool would it be to have big sculptures which make up the front of the skyline, as viewed from across the river? (Assuming the sculptures are tasteful, which may be a big assumption...especially if put up to public vote.)

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How cool would it be to have big sculptures which make up the front of the skyline, as viewed from across the river? (Assuming the sculptures are tasteful, which may be a big assumption...especially if put up to public vote.)

yea that's a big If. But some tasteful sculptures would be great

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Lincoln: more likely Thomas is positioning himself for a future campaign for higher office.  One with ad like: "When on city council Thomas publicly opposed the back-room methods of Mayor Mallory... Thomas for transparency, Thomas for order."  Or some BS

 

 

 

I like Thomas a lot - one of the best on council from my perspective.  I really doubt it was anything like what you suggest.

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^I've met Mr. Thomas, I too liked him. I was just reacting to what his position seemed to represent and where it seemed to be leading given his previous ambitions. (I'm probably also jaded by the current election cycle)

 

On the CAPS I am of the opinion that at least 50% should be buildings.  I am against the idea of sculptures- Pershing Square in LA used to sit right outside of my office and it was basically just a sculpture in a greenspace created for aerial viewing... basically it sucked walking past during lunch and was wasted space (not earning tax revenue or being used for active recreation).

As far as skyline contributing sculptures... the hotel at The Banks is 8-9 stories in the renderings, and they do not reach the air-rights zoning for The Banks which I believe was around 150ish so a 200+ foot sculpture would be needed to be seen from the river view which is referred to. (depending on the sculpture those point loads might be in excess of the 4 story dead load able to be carried by the CAP) IMO there are more attractive views of the CBD.

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Back on topic its great to hear about the CAPS.  10% is roughly 2M/year, but the 2M/year is more important as a matching fund balance when applying for grants and hopefully would put us in better standing for future applications.

 

Agreed-  I think both the Streetcar vote and the Caps vote is to increase our standing for future grants, etc.  The mayor has said he wants to push the caps much more now that the Streetcar is going to be built.

 

I'm pretty sure I read that the caps could support 4-5 story buildings at max.  so if they can do 4, one that is park like, and 3 that are smaller buildings could be reasonable. I highly doubt they would put condos or anything above the so this is probably going to be retail/commercial. Should be interesting- 

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Why spend millions of dollars to build a sculpture?  Seems like a waste to me.  If you are going to cap it, put something there that the people of downtown and cincy can use.

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Why spend millions of dollars to build a sculpture? Seems like a waste to me. If you are going to cap it, put something there that the people of downtown and cincy can use.

 

Residential would probably be the easiest to fill, but they question I have is who wants to live over a highway? 

 

If you have 4 story buildings you could do some retail on the ground floor and then office above but I don't know how strong the demand is going to be for either with the Banks coming on-line.

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Residential would probably be the easiest to fill, but they question I have is who wants to live over a highway? 

 

If you have 4 story buildings you could do some retail on the ground floor and then office above but I don't know how strong the demand is going to be for either with the Banks coming on-line.

 

agreed.

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^I'll say it again: Big bus/car [from the Banks garages]/streetcar transfer point (at least temporarily).

 

Why spend millions of dollars to build a sculpture?  Seems like a waste to me.  If you are going to cap it, put something there that the people of downtown and cincy can use.

 

I'm not sure if you are saying this, but my guess is it's not going to be one sculpture, and its not necessarily going to be put on the caps.

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Residential would probably be the easiest to fill, but they question I have is who wants to live over a highway?

 

If you have 4 story buildings you could do some retail on the ground floor and then office above but I don't know how strong the demand is going to be for either with the Banks coming on-line.

 

I'm not familiar enough with it enough.  Would it be pretty loud?  If not I don't see too many people having issues with it. I would think this has been done in other cities?

 

LK: I have no idea what the plan is, I was just responding to some other posts that would like to see some sculptures, fountains, etc on the caps.  To me that seems like it'd be a huge waste.

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I could see them erecting a statue in the lawnspace in front of the Freedom Center, should the restaurants on the site be designed to accomodate one.

 

I could also see one being constructed in the triangular parcel in front of where the casino will be.

 

I thought I read where they were going to keep the existing lawnspace at the Freedom Center alone, correct?  I sure hope so because this provides a pretty good level, rectangular greenspace for activities.  I really hope the CRP has something like this but I haven't seen it in the plans.  Some greenspace is needed for people to kick the soccer ball around, throw the football, play ultimate frisbee, etc.

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I think Cincy can pull something like this off:  :evil:

800px-TMX_apartments_jeh.JPG


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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I could see them erecting a statue in the lawnspace in front of the Freedom Center, should the restaurants on the site be designed to accomodate one.

 

I could also see one being constructed in the triangular parcel in front of where the casino will be.

 

I thought I read where they were going to keep the existing lawnspace at the Freedom Center alone, correct?  I sure hope so because this provides a pretty good level, rectangular greenspace for activities.  I really hope the CRP has something like this but I haven't seen it in the plans.  Some greenspace is needed for people to kick the soccer ball around, throw the football, play ultimate frisbee, etc.

 

As of right now the plan for that rectangle of green space behind the freedom center is to put two restaurants on either end and leave the middle part open as grass.

 

http://img144.imageshack.us/i/090303banks01.jpg/

 

I went for a walk down there yesterday after the Reds rally and honestly- I can't see all of it being done up with buildings.  I really think the one parcel directly in front of the Freedom center would be best served with a lawn type area, and the decks on either side built up.  Again- you can only build 4-5 stories and they would need ventilation from the tunnel below.  Also- you can't really put too much parking on the 600 foot block... so living there probably means parking across the street and underground- I don't think it'll become housing. 

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