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Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News

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6 minutes ago, skiwest said:

The stadium at the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton would be closer, but unfortunately, the capacity is only 23,000. 

 

Which is why Crew Stadium probably wouldn't work since it's even smaller.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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27 minutes ago, Toddguy said:

 

I would approve of this.

 

Who knows?..maybe it could be permanent...The Columbus Browns !  😉  

 

 

 

 

Please yes take them

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Infocision in Akron is 30k. Great stadium, but Horseshoe would be epic.

 

Anyhow I'm really looking forward to seeing future concepts for the stadium site and environs. 

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Seeing how the Browns haven't made the Playoffs in over two decades, and as it doesn't seem likely to change anytime soon....😂.... that gives them nine(9) months a year that they can work on the stadium with no one in it.  Also remember that they could begin work during the season similar to how the Cavs did at the Gund/Q/RMF, which should be easier seeing as there are only 8 games a year played in the stadium, then begin the big overhead work on the roof in January and you have 9 months to finish.

 

However, if that is not enough time worst case they could just play one season in another location and that would provide 21 months for the updates.  If 9 months isn't enough(which it should be), then I think 21 months is plenty of time for any kind of updates being added to the current stadium.

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3 hours ago, KJP said:

 

The rumblings I've heard is that they want to stay where they are. Perhaps it could involve a significant rebuild, such as with a permanent roof or retractable roof. If so, it means the Browns wouldn't be able to play there for a year or two -- much like with the Bears when they gutted and rebuilt Soldier Field. It's possible the Browns could also move downstate, such as to the OSU's Horseshoe or Crew Stadium for a couple of seasons. The Haslams may have been trying to cultivate the Central Ohio market for just that purpose.

 

And look for an announcement regarding a new development partner for the city-owned land.

 

 

Except predictions don't mean anything. I consider myself well-versed on rail and transit issues, and I couldn't tell you if we're going to have a Cleveland multi-modal station in the next five years (or ever) or if RTA's railcars will last long enough until they're replaced. I won't even make a prediction of where SH will build its HQ because there are always surprises. I couldn't foresee a new lakefront development partner coming onto the scene just a couple of weeks after d*ck Pace issued his new lakefront plan in September.

 

So I don't know if the outlet mall is going to be built, let alone when. I know they're very serious about building it, but so are a lot of developers. Obviously some are most serious than others, but they have a long way to go before they can built what they want.

 

Nothing is guaranteed. I live day by day for that very reason.

So is D*ck PACE completely OUT as the lakefront developer?

 

I figured that another large developer would join PACE's PARTNERSHIP to provide more financial muscle and also some one who could perhaps more easier attract worthy anchor tenants of both the office and retail types.

 

Or maybe have the Browns, Science Center, and or the Rock Hall as partners.

Edited by Larry1962
Typos

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I don't think he's completely out.

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On 7/12/2019 at 1:31 PM, jeremyck01 said:

 

After seeing the 3D renderings above, I don’t mind that these are all lower rise buildings. It adds a good bit of density. I know we’ve discussed it here before as well, but if I recall correctly, there are height restrictions around here as well due to the airport. 

 

On 7/12/2019 at 3:17 PM, Cleburger said:

 

Definite restrictions due to the airport.   Even the buildings in this rendering look like they may be too high.  

They would probably have to be no taller than Harbor Verandas.

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4 minutes ago, skiwest said:

 

They would probably have to be no taller than Harbor Verandas.

 

They can step up taller the farther west you go away from the airport.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Yes, I'm actually quoting my own tweet because I'm too lazy to upload my own oversized photo....

 

 

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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^Is the Mexican place still there or do these replace it? I hope they are additions...

 

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Harbor Verandas in the lower left

 

EPjEez0W4AAbumz?format=jpg&name=4096x409

 

Harbor Verandas at left (obviously!) and Nuevo in the background  (picture is from Valentines Day last year -- Neuvo was the only restaurant we could get into that night without a reservation)

 

EPjEezwW4AkwuEx?format=jpg&name=4096x409

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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^Thanks. For a moment I was thinking it was the same bldg.  Harbor Verandas are apartments.  Is the bldg with Neuvo also apartments or are they offices?

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4 minutes ago, Pugu said:

^Thanks. For a moment I was thinking it was the same bldg.  Harbor Verandas are apartments.  Is the bldg with Neuvo also apartments or are they offices?

 

Just part of the restaurant. Include a party/banquet room upstairs.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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30 minutes ago, Pugu said:

^Wait---that whole bldg is Neuvo (and related)?

 

The one in the background? Yes.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Thanks. Seems strange to have bldg downtown that is for one and only restaurant. very suburban.... seems like it could have easily have had an upstairs with a least some offices/housing units.

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^maybe. but I thought the planned new buildings are much taller, granted they are slightly west of E9, they are further north so in direct alignment with BKL's main runway.

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10 minutes ago, Ruken said:

Really like those apartments. One of the few lakefront options in the city.

 

A rare instance where the the result looks far better than the renderings! 

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I don't see the current stadium being altered with a new roof. The only time I see a roof being put on Browns Stadium is when a new is built. Unfortunately our current FES was rushed to completion, and the vocal "football should be played outside crowd" won out. 

 

Frankly Im waiting for something to actually be done with the parking lot north of the stadium. Pitt and Cinci have tons of bars next to their stadium. How do we have a barren wasteland? Because tailgating 10 times a year in a parking lot is the only viable use for downtown land?

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4 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

I don't see the current stadium being altered with a new roof. The only time I see a roof being put on Browns Stadium is when a new is built. Unfortunately our current FES was rushed to completion, and the vocal "football should be played outside crowd" won out. 

 

Frankly Im waiting for something to actually be done with the parking lot north of the stadium. Pitt and Cinci have tons of bars next to their stadium. How do we have a barren wasteland? Because tailgating 10 times a year in a parking lot is the only viable use for downtown land?

What are you smoking this wonderful Friday evening?

 

Pittsburgh:

44A7481F-BF4F-4F48-B756-411CD7C61EAA.jpeg

Cincy:

D9CD4237-95B9-49D4-8DAF-E59E04CCA3F3.jpeg

Edited by marty15
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1 minute ago, marty15 said:

What are you smoking this wonderful Friday evening?

 

Pittsburgh:

44A7481F-BF4F-4F48-B756-411CD7C61EAA.jpeg

Cincy:

D9CD4237-95B9-49D4-8DAF-E59E04CCA3F3.jpeg

When was the last time you were at a Bengals or Steelers game? 

 

There is a Bar Louie, Jerome Bettis Bar, Tequila Cowboy literally right outside Heinz Field

 

There is also a Yardhouse and other bars along the Ohio River in the vicinity of Great American Ball park and Paul Brown Stadium.  I don't need to look at Google Satellite, I've been to those places in person. 

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While close, they aren't quite close enough. If the stadium is staying in it's current location, there needs to be a plan to better connect FEB to the stadium. Now you have to take the Lakefront line from FEB to FES or hike up W. 3rd to the stadium; not too convenient, especially after a few beers.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said:

While close, they aren't quite close enough. If the stadium is staying in it's current location, there needs to be a plan to better connect FEB to the stadium. Now you have to take the Lakefront line from FEB to FES or hike up W. 3rd to the stadium; not too convenient, especially after a few beers.

Wait the waterfront line carries you from the FEB to West 3rd station which is right across the street from the Browns Stadium. Maybe because I'm not a drinker but that's not far at all.

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10 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

I don't see the current stadium being altered with a new roof. The only time I see a roof being put on Browns Stadium is when a new is built. Unfortunately our current FES was rushed to completion, and the vocal "football should be played outside crowd" won out. 

 

Frankly Im waiting for something to actually be done with the parking lot north of the stadium. Pitt and Cinci have tons of bars next to their stadium. How do we have a barren wasteland? Because tailgating 10 times a year in a parking lot is the only viable use for downtown land?

 

Yeah, we did.   Because the bulk of us fighting to keep the identity were on that side.  Probably 80% of the active crowd.

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13 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Frankly Im waiting for something to actually be done with the parking lot north of the stadium. Pitt and Cinci have tons of bars next to their stadium. How do we have a barren wasteland? Because tailgating 10 times a year in a parking lot is the only viable use for downtown land?

 

Unless it was built next to an already existing arena district, I can't think of many NFL stadiums that generate these kind of "districts".   Most NFL fans prefer the tailgate culture, then go into the game.   

 

Off the top of my head maybe Minneapolis and Foxboro have some surrounding developments, but the weather in these markets tends to be the worst in the NFL so fans might want to go indoors.  

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1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

 

Unless it was built next to an already existing arena district, I can't think of many NFL stadiums that generate these kind of "districts".   Most NFL fans prefer the tailgate culture, then go into the game.   

 

Off the top of my head maybe Minneapolis and Foxboro have some surrounding developments, but the weather in these markets tends to be the worst in the NFL so fans might want to go indoors.  

Maybe this is obvious, but NFL games are predominantly on Sunday afternoons and the stadiums are often removed from any urban life/grid/etc so any bars “next” to said stadiums would probably have a tough go of it outside of the 10 home games each season.

Even in the case of FES, who’s trekking down there now to partake in any hypothetical bar/restaurant scene outside of Browns home games? 

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5 minutes ago, CleCaneFan said:

Maybe this is obvious, but NFL games are predominantly on Sunday afternoons and the stadiums are often removed from any urban life/grid/etc so any bars “next” to said stadiums would probably have a tough go of it outside of the 10 home games each season.

Even in the case of FES, who’s trekking down there now to partake in any hypothetical bar/restaurant scene outside of Browns home games? 

 

I think we're kind of saying the same thing....

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12 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

Yeah, we did.   Because the bulk of us fighting to keep the identity were on that side.  Probably 80% of the active crowd.

Ok Boomer

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He's not a boomer. He's my age...Gen X. But eRocc is a wanna-be boomer.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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On 10/16/2019 at 11:05 PM, KJP said:

Might be worth a separate thread someday. This could be a huge project for the region....

 

Euclid+waterfront+plan.jpg

 

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 16, 2019

Planning starts for cross-county Lake Erie trail, erosion control

 

A large investment in Greater Cleveland's greatest natural asset could result from a multi-jurisdictional planning effort announced on Oct. 17 at the Lakewood Women's Club Pavilion at  Lakewood Park. The investment could result in a transformative economic and quality of life payback for the region.

Cuyahoga County Executive Armond Budish announced $500,000 for conceptual-level planning for the cross-county Lake Erie Trail along more than 30 miles of the county's shoreline.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/10/planning-starts-for-cross-county-lake.html

 

Following up on this. This vision has greater urgency but its assumptions might have to be changed. Note that in Geneva on the Lake that the existing erosion has become submerged and less effective. Clearly, erosion control is needed with our changed reality, but how to build it while still anticipating higher lake levels or, in the long run, potentially lower lake levels?

 

Geneva-on-the-Lake park eroding 3 feet a day, because of high water, lack of ice in Lake Erie

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/02/geneva-on-the-lake-park-eroding-3-feet-a-day-because-of-high-water-lack-of-ice-in-lake-erie.html

 

 


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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29 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Following up on this. This vision has greater urgency but its assumptions might have to be changed. Note that in Geneva on the Lake that the existing erosion has become submerged and less effective. Clearly, erosion control is needed with our changed reality, but how to build it while still anticipating higher lake levels or, in the long run, potentially lower lake levels?

 

Geneva-on-the-Lake park eroding 3 feet a day, because of high water, lack of ice in Lake Erie

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/02/geneva-on-the-lake-park-eroding-3-feet-a-day-because-of-high-water-lack-of-ice-in-lake-erie.html

 

 

 

Parts of the trail aren't precisely on the lake.  For example, likely due to the clout of NEORSD but also perhaps due to some of my more influential neighbors, the trail follows Lakeshore Boulevard instead of the actual lakeshore.   I suspect that is going to be the case in Bratenhal as well.

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