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Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News

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1 hour ago, urbanetics_ said:

How Gordon Park could become Cleveland's 'Edgewater East'

 

 “That could become the Battery Park of the East Side and serve as a huge economic driver for those surrounding neighborhoods, particularly St. Clair-Superior and Glenville.”

https://www.freshwatercleveland.com/features/gordonpark102319.aspx

So Gardin believes this can be fast-tracked? Interesting. Also the beach creation idea is most intriguing. I'd very much like to see some feasibility studies. That's deep water over there.

 

http://fishing-app.gpsnauticalcharts.com/i-boating-fishing-web-app/fishing-marine-charts-navigation.html?title=LAKE+ERIE+boating+app#15.66/41.5393/-81.6417

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43 minutes ago, marty15 said:

Some more Cumberland front window peeks 👀 

 

Interesting. The big parking lot along the north side of Erieside Avenue is gone.

 

I'm told that, at a recent meeting of downtown Cleveland stakeholder groups, when Richard Pace showed the site plan with all of the surface parking along Erieside, it apparently garnered an audible gasp from the audience. The gasp was probably in response to the parking lots because that was the first thing that people in the audience asked him about. He said the parking was provided at the request of the city which has its agreement with the Cleveland Browns that stipulates that X number of parking spaces be provided near the stadium.

 

But that site plan posted my @marty15 and other recent information suggests that the lakefront plans are VERY dynamic right now.

Edited by KJP
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"The boss rolls up in a new Lamborghini and tells his staff 'The greatest part about America is that hard work breeds wealth. So if you work hard and dedicate yourself tirelessly to the task at hand, I can get another new Lamborghini next year.'” -- Overheard in a Cleveland bar.

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2 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Interesting. The big parking lot along the north side of Erieside Avenue is gone.

 

I'm told that, at a recent meeting of downtown Cleveland stakeholder groups, when Richard Pace showed the site plan with all of the surface parking along Erieside, it apparently garnered an audible gasp from the audience. The gasp was probably in response to the parking lots because that was the first thing that people in the audience asked him about. He said the parking was provided at the request of the city which has its agreement with the Cleveland Browns that stipulates that X number of parking spaces be provided near the stadium.

 

But that site plan posted my @marty15 and other recent information suggests that the lakefront plans are VERY dynamic right now.

 

For reference, here's what it used to be...    ...it looks like the only thing that changed was adding back in buildings to the surface lots. So what does FirstEnergy do for parking now?

image.thumb.png.6b7976fd90ee97348c535d826f0fe529.png

 

Also, one can see the land bridge and possible multi-modal design in @marty15 zoomed-in image if you look very closely 😶

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Yes I was going to say it looks like this is the more affordable scaled-down version of the land bridge. This is not the green ribbon version of it though so I'm wondering if this is driven by Pace or the city, should be interesting. 

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4 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

 

 So what does FirstEnergy do for parking now? 

Doesn't look like there was that much parking in the first place.  Probably was to be reserved for VIPs and big spenders.  That said, I think it is crazy to park anywhere around the stadium on game day unless you intend to arrive 2 hours before the game and stay an hour or more afterwards.  The crowds leaving have no mercy for moving vehicles.  The closest I ever park to the Stadium is somewhere between east 12th and east 18th

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I would also like to see the Mather moved to the east side of 9th street pier. That would open up space for a marina for the development along that cove.

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4 minutes ago, WhatUp said:

I don't know about you, but I am seeing 2 land bridges.

 

That second one looks like that second land bridge is a widening of East 9th with greenery. Nice! That current bridge for East 9th over Route 2 can get CRAZY during big lakefront events, seeing as its the only good way to currently get there...

Edited by Geowizical
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6 minutes ago, WhatUp said:

I don't know about you, but I am seeing 2 land bridges.

land.jpg

 

And something in between them? Is that an additional parking structure with a green roof between the tracks and Shoreway? Is that how the removal of the surface lots was compensated?

 

Unfortunately, the shadow is cast to the south of whatever that structure is -- an impossibility since the sun is to the south.

Edited by KJP
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"The boss rolls up in a new Lamborghini and tells his staff 'The greatest part about America is that hard work breeds wealth. So if you work hard and dedicate yourself tirelessly to the task at hand, I can get another new Lamborghini next year.'” -- Overheard in a Cleveland bar.

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4 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

 

That second one looks like that second land bridge is a widening of East 9th with greenery. Nice! That current bridge for East 9th over Route 2 can get CRAZY during big lakefront events, seeing as its the only good way to currently get there...

That would be a MUCH improved and scenic pedestrian experience. Currently the walk along E9th between downtown proper and Northcoast Harbor is very pedestrian unfriendly and ugly / nothing but concrete.

 

Hopefully some measure of narrowing the E9th Willard garage entry/exit could be involved, or at least making the pedestrian crossing more visible and distinct. There are many walkers / joggers along the street and also many cars that fly in and out of that access. I've seen a fair share of near misses there because of drivers not paying attention or not seeing pedestrians trying to cross.

Edited by urbanetics_
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"The boss rolls up in a new Lamborghini and tells his staff 'The greatest part about America is that hard work breeds wealth. So if you work hard and dedicate yourself tirelessly to the task at hand, I can get another new Lamborghini next year.'” -- Overheard in a Cleveland bar.

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6 hours ago, Htsguy said:

Doesn't look like there was that much parking in the first place.  Probably was to be reserved for VIPs and big spenders.  That said, I think it is crazy to park anywhere around the stadium on game day unless you intend to arrive 2 hours before the game and stay an hour or more afterwards.  The crowds leaving have no mercy for moving vehicles.  The closest I ever park to the Stadium is somewhere between east 12th and east 18th

for people in suites, league officials and NFL personnel.  

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Is there a better neighborhood thread for this post?  E.55th:

 

Cleveland City Council clears way for lakefront apartment project with vote to vacate street

Posted Oct 28, 2019

By Robert Higgs, cleveland.com

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio – City Council on Monday approved vacating part of East 55th Street to help clear the way for an apartment complex along Cleveland’s lakefront to expand.

 

Landmark Companies, the owners of The Shoreline apartments on North Marginal Road, wants to add a second apartment building adjacent to its current building, formerly known as Quay 55. The new building would add about 200 residences to the waterfront site.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2019/10/cleveland-city-council-clears-way-for-lakefront-apartment-project-with-vote-to-vacate-street.html

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Yes @MuRrAy HiLL, this is where this project has been discussed....

 

 


"The boss rolls up in a new Lamborghini and tells his staff 'The greatest part about America is that hard work breeds wealth. So if you work hard and dedicate yourself tirelessly to the task at hand, I can get another new Lamborghini next year.'” -- Overheard in a Cleveland bar.

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‘A once-in-a-generation opportunity:’ Could Whiskey Island truck traffic plan fix an environmental injustice for Lakeview Terrace residents?

 Rachel Dissell - Nov. 12, 2019

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/11/a-once-in-a-generation-opportunity-lakeview-terrace-residents-and-supporters-hope-truck-traffic-plan-will-fix-an-environmental-injustice.html

 

"Cleveland officials are exploring plans to rebuild or replace the aging and unreliable Willow Avenue lift bridge, which spans the Cuyahoga river channel from the Flats to the southeast end of Whiskey Island.  ... Alternative 33 would undoubtedly be the most expensive because it would require creating a new connection to Whiskey Island via West 45th Street. That plan currently calls for demolishing or abandoning the Willow Avenue lift bridge, which would be unpopular with Ontario Stone Corp. and create what some see as untenable options for recreational trail users. Some have floated the idea of a two-bridge option, one that creates a new connection, in addition to rehabbing, replacing or redesigning how the Willow Avenue bridge operates. It’s not clear whether the city would consider that."

 

(there may be a better thread for this, but it relates to the Whiskey Island connector bridge mentioned upthread)

 

Edited by NorthShore647

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I don't think a W 45th / Old River bridge seems likely, but is an interesting proposition. Reducing trucks through Lakeview Terrace, the W 25th/Shoreway interchange and Ohio City by ~80% would really help the neighborhoods, but a more circuitous route to Whiskey Island/Wendy Park and the lake for bikes and pedestrians would hurt a lot of the potential of the Lake Link trail (and all of the ones which connect to it). Preserving the Willow bridge and adding a new one at and W 45th is even more unlikely, but it would be great to have the benefits of both. For now I'll add it to my long list of theoretical infrastructure projects (Sim City list) for the region. 

 

If a new lift bridge is built at W 45th (assuming it would be a lift to preserve access to to the marinas, Cargill and Great lakes Shipyard) it would be the cities first "new" movable bridge since 1957(excluding the Columbus Ave bridge renovation/replacement). 

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Outlet+Shoppes+at+Cleveland-Loopnet1.jpg

 

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 19, 2019

The Outlet Shoppes of Cleveland is back in stock again

 

With the goal of opening its doors to customers in the spring of 2022, the Outlet Shoppes of Cleveland is the subject of local and national leasing activities now underway. The project, originally proposed several years ago and on the other side of the Shoreway highway, is back and is being pursued aggressively by its national developer.

According to project's backers, they say that "remarkable progress" has been made behind the scenes on developing the 320,000-square-foot retail center. It is proposed to be built on roughly 14 acres of city-owned land between the Shoreway and South Marginal Road, just south of Burke Lakefront Airport.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/11/the-outlet-shoppes-of-cleveland-is-back.html

Edited by KJP
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"The boss rolls up in a new Lamborghini and tells his staff 'The greatest part about America is that hard work breeds wealth. So if you work hard and dedicate yourself tirelessly to the task at hand, I can get another new Lamborghini next year.'” -- Overheard in a Cleveland bar.

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^ SWEET parking lot!  🤮   Seriously?   I would hope the planning commission would at the VERY least require a parking deck...but even that would be disappointing.  I pretty much thought "outlet malls" were out of fashion.  Lodi, for example, is just a big empty space with minimal stores left.  Who knows?  Maybe it will work here...

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Looking at all the potential retailers I feel like this would destroy the ability for the heart of downtown to gain the retailers we’ve been so hoping would soon attract with the increasing population growth. Also, the parking and access to interstates makes it so people will come to the outlets, shop, then leave. 

Edited by cle_guy90
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I'm not terribly familiar with Outlet Shoppes / Malls, but I can't think of many that are within a city, urban environment or being practically downtown. They seem to be usually a few exits outside of an urbanized area, or in a third ring / outer suburb. Tanger Outlets; Columbus, Pittsburgh, Jeffersonville, Lodi Station, Aurora Farms. 

 

I mean this site might as well be any random highway exit, its about as isolated as you can get in a central city. I guess if the outlet is going to be built in Northeastern Ohio, at least its Cleveland getting the potential revenue, but virtually zero spin off. Also the amount of city revenue may be questionable for what they will be asked to invest in infrastructure, or what Geis / anther developer may build in the future. 

 

Does anyone know of a comparable urban Outlet Mall development?

Edited by NorthShore647

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Based upon the design and location, it would appear to be geared more for the suburbanites and tourists vs those residing in the CBD.  It could however provide the City/County with sorely-needed revenue after the initial investment.

It may work. The West Palm Beach Mall was leveled, only to be replaced with an outdoor Palm Beach Outlets that has been very successful. Its located on I-95 and Palm Beach Lakes Blvd.

 

https://www.palmbeachoutlets.com/directory/

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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Although I may seldom visit it, I am intrigued by the comments that the infrastructure proposed to support this may also be designed to support additional development nearby. Like what, and where? Perhaps some housing on the rest of the Muny lots? If so, this outlet mall may not be so isolated for very long.

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"The boss rolls up in a new Lamborghini and tells his staff 'The greatest part about America is that hard work breeds wealth. So if you work hard and dedicate yourself tirelessly to the task at hand, I can get another new Lamborghini next year.'” -- Overheard in a Cleveland bar.

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I am a little bit confused  - Is this in the exact same spot as the original plan

which was North  of Rt 2 south of burke  OR is this South of Rt 2 in the 

Municipal Parking lot.

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Y’all trippin lol. Do you guys have any idea how many shoppers this thing will draw? And how that’ll actually be a benefit for Clevelanders too? This’ll get exurbaners in the city but those of us who live in the city will be able to shop there too. I know people look down at “icky” outlet malls, but I’m telling you, this is going to be a ridiculous draw

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8 minutes ago, simplythis said:

I am a little bit confused  - Is this in the exact same spot as the original plan

which was North  of Rt 2 south of burke  OR is this South of Rt 2 in the 

Municipal Parking lot.

 

South of Route 2/Shoreway


"The boss rolls up in a new Lamborghini and tells his staff 'The greatest part about America is that hard work breeds wealth. So if you work hard and dedicate yourself tirelessly to the task at hand, I can get another new Lamborghini next year.'” -- Overheard in a Cleveland bar.

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1 hour ago, KJP said:

Outlet+Shoppes+at+Cleveland-Loopnet1.jpg

 

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 19, 2019

The Outlet Shoppes of Cleveland is back in stock again

 

With the goal of opening its doors to customers in the spring of 2022, the Outlet Shoppes of Cleveland is the subject of local and national leasing activities now underway. The project, originally proposed several years ago and on the other side of the Shoreway highway, is back and is being pursued aggressively by its national developer.

According to project's backers, they say that "remarkable progress" has been made behind the scenes on developing the 320,000-square-foot retail center. It is proposed to be built on roughly 14 acres of city-owned land between the Shoreway and South Marginal Road, just south of Burke Lakefront Airport.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/11/the-outlet-shoppes-of-cleveland-is-back.html

 

I edited the opening paragraph to clarify the site's location.

Edited by KJP
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"The boss rolls up in a new Lamborghini and tells his staff 'The greatest part about America is that hard work breeds wealth. So if you work hard and dedicate yourself tirelessly to the task at hand, I can get another new Lamborghini next year.'” -- Overheard in a Cleveland bar.

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Drive-by shopping. Just far away enough to not bring people in to shop in downtown and just far enough away to not be a companion to the RRHF - which I think is needed to become like an Inner Harbor type attraction. And I don’t  think a strip mall right there is going to really pull people in from the burbs. 

Edited by CleveFan
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4 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

Drive-by shopping. Just far away enough to not bring people in to shop in downtown and just far enough away to not be a companion to the RRHF - which I think is needed to become like an Inner Harbor type attraction. And I don’t  think a strip mall right there is going to really pull people in from the burbs. 

Yeah, would be cool if it was incorporated into Cumberland’s plan north of the stadium.

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If i am correct I think this is the 3rd site that has been considered. The original site was

North of the Shoreway south of burke on that geis property there. The second was north of the shoreway

further up close to dead man's curve and this one which is South of the shoreway. I think it is the best spot from all three

but don't the Brown's tailgaters go that far into the municipal parking lot. 

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I think the original location on the Burke was MUCH better than the new location. At least that original location would be walkable from Northcoast Harbor and allowed for the possibility of better connection to lakefront development in the future. 

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1 hour ago, inlovewithCLE said:

Y’all trippin lol. Do you guys have any idea how many shoppers this thing will draw? And how that’ll actually be a benefit for Clevelanders too? This’ll get exurbaners in the city but those of us who live in the city will be able to shop there too. I know people look down at “icky” outlet malls, but I’m telling you, this is going to be a ridiculous draw

 

We already have an urban streetgrid and huge unused buildings that can be repurposed for such things. This is just a very bad location for this thing. Now if it was designed to compliment the unique lakefront views, aesthetic it would be great. But this is going to look like hot garbage. 

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The city may benefit from something like this in the short-term but in a decade or so when it falters it will be another huge, single use structure to deal with. 

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