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Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News

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In related news, I went to a lecture at MoCA on friday night by a design studio called Metrogramma out of Milan, Italy.

http://www.metrogramma.com/

 

I used to be against the idea of out of towners being used for these development projects since I believe we have capable companies here.  However, now I think having people that don't know all the Cleveland "baggage" being able to look at the city with a fresh perspective is a great way to go.

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I have to say it's depressing to read something like what this McCormack person wrote but not because of the message (I mean like did she think she was saying something new?) but because it's completely irritating to hear college grads like her be so uninspiring. I mean if you're going to base where you live because the waterfront area has not been developed and you have possible issues with local leadership then good riddance in my opinion. Cleveland needs people who want change and are willing to be involved to make that change happen. I work with a lot of college age people and I'm constantly amazed at how they want to be somewhere that is a place ready made for them to have this fabulous life versus becoming part of the community and adding to it knowing the good and bad. Without getting into a bit$CH fight over other cities issues, I mean please, NY doesn't have problems that compare to our water front problem? Of course they do but people tend to over look these and find what is good and you can do exactly that with Cleveland. I know I'm ranting but the type of drivel coming from people like her is exhausting, along with the rags that print it.

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I have to say it's depressing to read something like what this McCormack person wrote but not because of the message (I mean like did she think she was saying something new?) but because it's completely irritating to hear college grads like her be so uninspiring. I mean if you're going to base where you live because the waterfront area has not been developed and you have possible issues with local leadership then good riddance in my opinion. Cleveland needs people who want change and are willing to be involved to make that change happen. I work with a lot of college age people and I'm constantly amazed at how they want to be somewhere that is a place ready made for them to have this fabulous life versus becoming part of the community and adding to it knowing the good and bad. Without getting into a bit$CH fight over other cities issues, I mean please, NY doesn't have problems that compare to our water front problem? Of course they do but people tend to over look these and find what is good and you can do exactly that with Cleveland. I know I'm ranting but the type of drivel coming from people like her is exhausting, along with the rags that print it.

 

I couldn't agree more.  Get involved.  Assume nothing will change unless you make it change, or, at least, recognize that nothing is gained/accomplished through passive observance. 

 

I could go on, but I will not veer further off topic.

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I also get endlessly annoyed by the "if some city leader would just click their heals together three times and want it bad enough" presto, insta development.  Cities can plan, they can try to drum up interest, and offer incentives, provide infastructure... but the bottom line is, at the end of the day, the private sector is responsible for making the investment.  Period.

 

I should add the port HAS to move to develop this.  The port wants to move, the city supports them, they are doing their best to plan for the land, and as the port transitions out they will work their tail off to find investors (of all types) to step in and create the environment they imagined.  There isn't a whole lot more the "leaders" can do.  Up to this point the lakefront hasn't been able to be developed because there has been a giant working port sitting on it.

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I guess I think most people want things laid out for them. Maybe not everything, but most things. I mean, if I'm not in development but instead in widget making, why do I want to spend my time working to get development done so I can make widgets here vs just heading off to NY, or Chicago or some other town that already has a widget section of town ready to go?

 

A better argument for Kerry is to show what Cleveland has to offer and play on that. You have to sell what you have in place before selling the future. The lakefront has some pretty great spots that are either open to the pubic already or are available for not such an extravagant price.. Start there and it will build.. at least I'd hope.

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I would have to assume that Kerry McCormack hasn't taken the time to actually discover what Cleveland has to offer (besides downtown, obviously).  Not everyone is as into urban neighborhoods as we; but once again, our own local population is our own worst enemy.  Here is a college student telling other college students that Cleveland should just be ignored, because the downtown lakefront is lacking.  The vast amount of land we have on our lakefront which is ripe for development is a blessing (at least in my eyes), and a curse (in the eyes of others).  I would love to have a developed, functioning lakefront tomorrow, but we have one shot at this.  It should be done right.

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I have to say it's depressing to read something like what this McCormack person wrote but not because of the message (I mean like did she think she was saying something new?) but because it's completely irritating to hear college grads like her be so uninspiring. I mean if you're going to base where you live because the waterfront area has not been developed and you have possible issues with local leadership then good riddance in my opinion. Cleveland needs people who want change and are willing to be involved to make that change happen. I work with a lot of college age people and I'm constantly amazed at how they want to be somewhere that is a place ready made for them to have this fabulous life versus becoming part of the community and adding to it knowing the good and bad. Without getting into a bit$CH fight over other cities issues, I mean please, NY doesn't have problems that compare to our water front problem? Of course they do but people tend to over look these and find what is good and you can do exactly that with Cleveland. I know I'm ranting but the type of drivel coming from people like her is exhausting, along with the rags that print it.

 

Regardless of how frustrated you are about what she said, it's the truth.  I saw it for four years.  So what do we do about it?  Complain? Ostricize an entire demograph essential to our redevelopment?  We (recent grads) can bring new ideas, new business and new culture to the city.  If Cleveland doesn't want it, I'm sure Chicago, New York, hell, even Pittsburgh would take them.

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I have to say it's depressing to read something like what this McCormack person wrote but not because of the message (I mean like did she think she was saying something new?) but because it's completely irritating to hear college grads like her be so uninspiring. I mean if you're going to base where you live because the waterfront area has not been developed and you have possible issues with local leadership then good riddance in my opinion. Cleveland needs people who want change and are willing to be involved to make that change happen. I work with a lot of college age people and I'm constantly amazed at how they want to be somewhere that is a place ready made for them to have this fabulous life versus becoming part of the community and adding to it knowing the good and bad. Without getting into a bit$CH fight over other cities issues, I mean please, NY doesn't have problems that compare to our water front problem? Of course they do but people tend to over look these and find what is good and you can do exactly that with Cleveland. I know I'm ranting but the type of drivel coming from people like her is exhausting, along with the rags that print it.

 

Regardless of how frustrated you are about what she said, it's the truth.  I saw it for four years.  So what do we do about it?  Complain? Ostricize an entire demograph essential to our redevelopment?  We (recent grads) can bring new ideas, new business and new culture to the city.  If Cleveland doesn't want it, I'm sure Chicago, New York, hell, even Pittsburgh would take them.

 

Thats a good question, what are you doing?

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I'm not sure if that was sarcasm, but I plan to work, save and invest in Cleveland in the future.  How and with what?  Not sure yet, but I do know that's why I get up and go to work in the morning.

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Regardless of how frustrated you are about what she said, it's the truth.  I saw it for four years.  So what do we do about it?  Complain? Ostricize an entire demograph essential to our redevelopment?  We (recent grads) can bring new ideas, new business and new culture to the city.  If Cleveland doesn't want it, I'm sure Chicago, New York, hell, even Pittsburgh would take them

 

Believe me I'm not frustrated, it's more I'm just sick of hearing dung like this. You're right, I want recent grads to bring exactly what you say they can bring, and not focus on the things that are wrong and then use those few things as the reason they won't live somewhere??!! I just don't see the logic or reason in that. I live in San Francisco and believe me this place is great but with lots and lots of problems. I can think of a ton of reasons why I shouldn't live here. My God it's taken over 20 years to get the Bay Bridge repaired and it will take another 10 but should I use that as the reason to blast local leadership and move to San Diego? Cleveland has issues like all cities but people need to start giving this city, and all the amazing people who are making change, a break for once. I would rather have two college grads who were passionate about their city and its future than a dozen who think just because they are someplace it's fabulous.

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This article is in today's Plain Dealer:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2009/08/clevelandcuyahoga_county_port.html

 

Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority unveils makeover plan for lakefront

by Olivera Perkins / Plain Dealer Reporter

Thursday August 13, 2009, 9:34 PM

 

The Cleveland waterfront could be transformed by 2013 into a year-round playground of recreation, restaurants and open space, according to concepts unveiled Thursday, Aug. 13, at a Cleveland Waterfront Development Project meeting.

 

Jill Akins, principal of Van Auken Akins Architects LLC, unveiled the outline of the first phase of the lakefront plan, which could start in 2011. The first phase would cover the lakefront from the Steamship William G. Mather Museum in North Coast Harbor to the 50-yard line at Cleveland Browns Stadium.

 

The concept included Crystal Square, which would be built behind the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and feature a pavilion with glass structures facing the water. In the winter, its doors would close to shield people from the harsh winds and cold while still providing a view of the lake. Streets would also be designed to turn the area into a four-season playground. Roads would jog, instead of being built on a straight grid, to block frequent and strong winds...

 

 

Here's to wishing! :-D

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I like it. I think this street grid plan makes more sense than Stark's which didn't take the winter winds into account.


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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A great comment in the comment section:

 

Posted by cleveland197 on 08/14/09 at 9:16AM

There is only ONE thing I see missing from this plan and I'm totally blown away they didn't include it!!! Makes me so furious...!!

 

Nowhere in the plan does it call for a large storage facility under the lake to house the negative naysayers from these Cleveland.com bulletin boards. Earlier plans called for a complete mock-up of the Cleveland area that will never change... sort of a theater stage. The naysayers will get to walk around and comment about how bad it is... and the best part? It will always be like that! They'll never get to see the outside world -- the Cleveland that is trying to improve itself and the people who are trying to do it.

 

Unfortunately the Subterranean Naysayer Bunker must have been nixed from final plans... bummer!

 

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cah55, welcome aboard and thank you for posting the PD article! Please add the source link for articles when posting them. I added the link to your post to show what should be included, FYI.


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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A great comment in the comment section:

 

Posted by cleveland197 on 08/14/09 at 9:16AM

There is only ONE thing I see missing from this plan and I'm totally blown away they didn't include it!!! Makes me so furious...!!

 

Nowhere in the plan does it call for a large storage facility under the lake to house the negative naysayers from these Cleveland.com bulletin boards. Earlier plans called for a complete mock-up of the Cleveland area that will never change... sort of a theater stage. The naysayers will get to walk around and comment about how bad it is... and the best part? It will always be like that! They'll never get to see the outside world -- the Cleveland that is trying to improve itself and the people who are trying to do it.

 

Unfortunately the Subterranean Naysayer Bunker must have been nixed from final plans... bummer!

 

 

I saw that and thought it was awesome. Of course, we could save money from building that bunker by just telling all of these worthless dorks to go jump in the lake.


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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A great comment in the comment section:

 

Posted by cleveland197 on 08/14/09 at 9:16AM

There is only ONE thing I see missing from this plan and I'm totally blown away they didn't include it!!! Makes me so furious...!!

 

Nowhere in the plan does it call for a large storage facility under the lake to house the negative naysayers from these Cleveland.com bulletin boards. Earlier plans called for a complete mock-up of the Cleveland area that will never change... sort of a theater stage. The naysayers will get to walk around and comment about how bad it is... and the best part? It will always be like that! They'll never get to see the outside world -- the Cleveland that is trying to improve itself and the people who are trying to do it.

 

Unfortunately the Subterranean Naysayer Bunker must have been nixed from final plans... bummer!

 

 

That's excellent!  I love it!

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Thanks for posting.....don't know how I missed this earlier.

 

Great job using Baltimore, Old Alexandria, etc. as model concepts.

(now if we can only see Fells Point, Baltimore as a model for what's left of the Flats)

 

Very exciting to consider all of the possibilities!!!!

 

Most of what is talked about in the article is in the PDF presented 7-7-09.

 

http://www.portofcleveland.com/assets/attachments/file/090709_Cleveland_Public_Presentation.pdf

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I like the grid pattern as well. I also like the fact that they don't ignore that we live in a somewhat tough climate. It sometimes takes an outsider to recognize what we often ignore. Now if they can just drop the TransportationCenter into its rightful place, were in business.

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It's bothersome that they only looked at their own projects for precedence...

And while they're analysis with the shifted grid to block winds is interested, they seen to have ignored it in the final solution in this design phase.

Also, while this clearly wasn't in their scope, the transition from the city to the lakefront is really the problem that needs to be addressed.  A lakefront plan that ignores or is afraid to tackle that issue isn't looking at the big picture, in my opinion.

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Say what you will about Zaha Hadid's design of individual buildings (X), this project in Spain has a density that I think we should be shooting for.  A quick look at the street widths in the port's plan reveal avenues that are simply too wide.  Tight streets, something this city is not known for, should be part of an all encompassing idea of creating greater density, and then release to the vista of the lakefront.

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Also, while this clearly wasn't in their scope, the transition from the city to the lakefront is really the problem that needs to be addressed.  A lakefront plan that ignores or is afraid to tackle that issue isn't looking at the big picture, in my opinion.

 

My thought also. I still see that large scar between the two. But until we can redirect the train traffic it will be tough to solve. I think KJP has pointed out that the tracks cannot be capped because of the bio frieght that runs thru there. Although as I mentioned in another post, I believe the much discussed Transportation Center would go along way in filling that void. To me the main gateway to the lakefront could from the mall.

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to me what is missing from the plans is high rise. look at lakewood, euclid areas. cut this 3-4 story bull. the market for it is there. that kind of scale is what is desired on a lakefront if you ask me. just an opinion.. it also could be more dense like you guys are saying. boulevards through 3-4 story buildings is not the kind of development cleveland should be shooting for. wide sidewalks with tight lanes and at least 10 story buildings. all with sunrise and sunset views, or bustling city streets.

 

 

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to me what is missing from the plans is high rise. look at lakewood, euclid areas. cut this 3-4 story bull. the market for it is there. that kind of scale is what is desired on a lakefront if you ask me. just an opinion.. it also could be more dense like you guys are saying. boulevards through 3-4 story buildings is not the kind of development cleveland should be shooting for. wide sidewalks with tight lanes and at least 10 story buildings. all with sunrise and sunset views, or bustling city streets.

 

 

 

Stats please.

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to me what is missing from the plans is high rise. look at lakewood, euclid areas. cut this 3-4 story bull. the market for it is there. that kind of scale is what is desired on a lakefront if you ask me. just an opinion.. it also could be more dense like you guys are saying. boulevards through 3-4 story buildings is not the kind of development cleveland should be shooting for. wide sidewalks with tight lanes and at least 10 story buildings. all with sunrise and sunset views, or bustling city streets.

 

 

 

Stats please.

 

like i said, look at lakewood and the other high rise developments on the lake. they are doing well.

 

SWEET massing models. like i said i would like some taller buildings, but these look really great for the size they are. i see the half-circle park right outside browns stadium. thats perfect.

 

the design/planning has really come a long way.

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I think high-rises also would create wind tunnels that would make the area very uncomfortable in the winter.

 

What is that odd-shaped structure in the rendering just next to stern of the Mather?

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Some massing models from the presentation:

 

lakefront0809_1.jpg

 

lakefront0809_2.jpg

 

lakefront0809_3.jpg

 

Scav, I'd be inclined to agree if it weren't for the fact that a high-rise at that location would be directly in the flight paths at Burke.

 

The flight path is exactly where I was going and on the lake right there putting high rises would dwarf the stadium. 

 

Now High rise building from East 9 to the innner belt on Hamilton, Lakeside and St. Clair would be much more desirable.  As would they be West 6 going west.

 

Nobody wants to move into a downtown highrise more than I do.

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Scav,

 

I wouldn't used Lakewood as a comparable model. You can easily find condos for sale on Lakewood's gold coast that cost $40,000. Granted, those units are very small and not updated. Still, it is a different product.

 

As MayDay pointed out, you can't put high rises in this location because of the flight paths from Burke.

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Also looks like there are covered walkways from RRHOF->GLSC->Mather.  I think these were refernaced in the presentation as well, or at least that during winter it would be nice.  And I do think that it would be a great way to expand the use of the attractions in the winter months.  It may not take away the wind, but some walkways not covered by dirty snow would be nice.

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Scav,

 

I wouldn't used Lakewood as a comparable model. You can easily find condos for sale on Lakewood's gold coast that cost $40,000. Granted, those units are very small and not updated. Still, it is a different product.

 

As MayDay pointed out, you can't put high rises in this location because of the flight paths from Burke.

 

yea i guess its more of a pipe dream. imho its a great location for highrise but burke has a LOT of control over built form in that area.. burke forced the rock hall and science center to be white!

 

i guess the highrise in bratenahl is a better example, though its not very numerous.

 

either way, that idea is right out lol

 

tedders, i agree that the covered walkways look great and could help a lot. they create certain boundaries that i myself wouldnt want to create but they could work in certain areas, and i think they chose a good area for just that.

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I realize that it is just a rendering/massing, but doesn't that covered walkway plow right over the fire fighters' memorial?

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^

Unless the walkways are enclosed (which would be a bad idea), the dirty snow will find a way into the path.  So will rain and dirt.  Having said that, the walkways are great idea and the use of yellow, orange/red and purple for the glass structures/walkways is a great idea as well.  Colors add life.

 

The only thing that worries me about this presentation is that massive "P" for existing parking.  I hope they figure out a way to introduce some sort of mixed-use component to that.

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^

The only thing that worries me about this presentation is that massive "P" for existing parking. I hope they figure out a way to introduce some sort of mixed-use component to that.

 

Right now, there is a nice and very underused green space on top of that parking.  It's not retail or residential, but it is "mixed use"

 

I would leave it as is.

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I can't think of a bigger waste of money and worse idea than covered walkways connecting downtown to the lakefront, open to the elements or not.

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I think the walkway has been discussed before. Same one right?

 

Great Lakes Science Center Gets $1M To Build Walkway

Walkway To Connect Center To William H. Mather Museum

 

POSTED: 7:19 pm EST November 18, 2008

UPDATED: 7:41 pm EST November 18, 2008

 

 

CLEVELAND -- The Great Lakes Science Center was granted $1 million to build a pedestrian walkway connecting the center to the William G. Mather Maritime Museum.

The $3.4 million project will construct a glass and steel 400-foot enclosed connector to the steamship museum, encouraging crossover visitors year-round.

The funding was approved by the Ohio Cultural Facilities Commission.

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^ No, not the same. The walkway mentioned in the article you quoted is just from the GLSC to the Mather. In the models in the pics above, the walkways extend to the Mall, the RRHOF and Voinevich Park.

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Very interesting read indeed!

 

But what is this "proposed new warehouse" ????????? Page 52

 

Isnt that what they wanted to build for a new "wind mill assembling" facility...

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^They're wind TURBINES!  :bang:

 

Sorry, but it grinds my gears when I hear "wind mill" instead of wind turbine.  A mill grinds something, a turbine rotates to create electricity.

 

Thank you.

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you-know-what-really-grinds-my-gear.jpg

 

^They're wind TURBINES!  :bang:

 

Sorry, but it grinds my gears when I hear "wind mill" instead of wind turbine.  A mill grinds something, a turbine rotates to create electricity.

 

Thank you.

 

I fixed that for you!

 

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This is my favorite image from the plan.  Why? Because it reinforces our connection to the water.  I wonder if it could be constructed in a way that would be pleasing aesthetically but also function as a constructed wetland/stream to filter water run-off.  It does not appear to connect into the lake, so I'm unsure if this makes sense.

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