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Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News

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2 hours ago, surfohio said:

I'm not sophisticated enough to link it, but @Cleburger posted this in the Port Authority thread:

 

It's building steam!  

 

29 cruise ships will dock at Port of Cleveland in 2019

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/03/cruise-ships-coming-to-cle.html?fbclid=IwAR3Le00084UB_QpATn3Ze2RqIgZWiP4Jni017Tl06O6EbVKB8dS9wBNP9-A

The Port Authority has been trying to setup a ferry service to Canada for several years now.

It's so far been very difficult for them to setup a partnership with a port in Canada.

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2 hours ago, surfohio said:

I'm not sophisticated enough to link it, but @Cleburger posted this in the Port Authority thread:

 

It's building steam!  

 

29 cruise ships will dock at Port of Cleveland in 2019

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/03/cruise-ships-coming-to-cle.html?fbclid=IwAR3Le00084UB_QpATn3Ze2RqIgZWiP4Jni017Tl06O6EbVKB8dS9wBNP9-A

 

For future reference, grab the link over on the right, next to “report post”, like this:

 

539EA490-0A14-402A-AF9B-345059CB91C6.thumb.jpeg.7bc8db6bae4fed2213e9c0fbf05166e6.jpeg

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19 minutes ago, KJP said:

lakefront+plan+PACE_09-10-19.jpg

 

THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 19, 2019

Lakefront development project to start this winter

 

After shedding its partner Trammel Crow Co., things are starting to move a little faster for Cumberland Development LLC. when it comes to its lakefront development project. Demolition for and construction of the lakefront project is due to start in January.

This week, Cumberland President d*ck Pace released a fully updated plan (see image above) for his lakefront development that includes timelines and phasing for new and larger buildings. The revised plan also scuttles the idea of re-using one of the two old Dock 30 port warehouses as previously proposed. Instead, both warehouses are to be demolished.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/09/lakefront-development-project-to-start.html

Dammit I can't read the writing lol. 

 

I need younger eyes!!!

Edited by surfohio
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4 minutes ago, surfohio said:

Dammit I can't read the writing lol. 

 

You can read some of the writing if you click on the image and enlarge it.

 

But most of it I summarized in the descriptions of each proposed building. I'll share a readable PDF of it when I get home from dinner. 

Edited by KJP
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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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22 minutes ago, KJP said:

lakefront+plan+PACE_09-10-19.jpg

 

THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 19, 2019

Lakefront development project to start this winter

 

After shedding its partner Trammel Crow Co., things are starting to move a little faster for Cumberland Development LLC. when it comes to its lakefront development project. Demolition for and construction of the lakefront project is due to start in January.

This week, Cumberland President d*ck Pace released a fully updated plan (see image above) for his lakefront development that includes timelines and phasing for new and larger buildings. The revised plan also scuttles the idea of re-using one of the two old Dock 30 port warehouses as previously proposed. Instead, both warehouses are to be demolished.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/09/lakefront-development-project-to-start.html

Let’s go!!  So pumped for Cleveland 

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1 hour ago, WindyBuckeye said:

Let’s go!!  So pumped for Cleveland 

kJP :  Awesome article. From what wrote it appears we are going to the land bridge and the Intermodal

Transportation hub. Is there anything  on this that you know as far as pricing & quality. Hopefully this is not a budget or

low cost bridge & hub. I am not crazy about the location of the Stem School.  Also, in proposed features write-up

you inadvertently Listed building 3 twice.

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20 minutes ago, simplythis said:

kJP :  Awesome article. From what wrote it appears we are going to the land bridge and the Intermodal

Transportation hub. Is there anything  on this that you know as far as pricing & quality. Hopefully this is not a budget or

low cost bridge & hub. I am not crazy about the location of the Stem School.  Also, in proposed features write-up

you inadvertently Listed building 3 twice.

 

Thanks. I don't know what the price tags are for the latest versions of the land bridge or multimodal hub. But past versions were in the $100 million to $300 million range when combined.

 

I didn't list Building 3 twice inadvertently....I did it to:

 

1. See if anyone was paying attention

2. Drive readers crazy

2. Then drive them freaking nuts!

 

 

 

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While the Cleveland Foundation Centennial Lake Link Trail will connect to the Whiskey Island Connector via the Willow St Bridge over the Old River, am I correct in understanding there is no plan for a pedestrian bridge parallel with Norfolk Southern's lift bridge at the mouth of the Cuyahoga?  As much as the land bridge will connect people to d*ck Pace's development, and the multi-modal transportation center will be transformative (love it!), the pedestrian bridge crossing from Voinovich Bicentennial Park across North Coast harbor is much less impactful than if one could walk/run/bike from E 9th to Whiskey Island/Edgewater without routing through the flats. Being a busy commercial port and shipping channel with lake freighters/ore ships/cruise ships, etc using our navigable river, I understand the inherent limitations of blocking/constraining the mouth of the river, but what would a pedestrian bridge look like there (in terms of grading/approach/length/cost/funding/etc)?

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3 hours ago, KJP said:

lakefront+plan+PACE_09-10-19.jpg

 

THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 19, 2019

Lakefront development project to start this winter

 

After shedding its partner Trammel Crow Co., things are starting to move a little faster for Cumberland Development LLC. when it comes to its lakefront development project. Demolition for and construction of the lakefront project is due to start in January.

This week, Cumberland President d*ck Pace released a fully updated plan (see image above) for his lakefront development that includes timelines and phasing for new and larger buildings. The revised plan also scuttles the idea of re-using one of the two old Dock 30 port warehouses as previously proposed. Instead, both warehouses are to be demolished.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/09/lakefront-development-project-to-start.html

Thanks for another great article and I'm glad that this vital LAKEFRONT PROJECT is moving forward!

 

BUT I was really hoping for the 1,000 APARTMENTS and the two large OFFICE BUILDINGS as previously proposed.  
BUT I understand that it's hard to find anchor tenants and proper FINANCING and city/state aid too.


But there's ALWAYS HOPE that by the time they build the other phases it will end up being the larger project originally planned!

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1 hour ago, infrafreak said:

While the Cleveland Foundation Centennial Lake Link Trail will connect to the Whiskey Island Connector via the Willow St Bridge over the Old River, am I correct in understanding there is no plan for a pedestrian bridge parallel with Norfolk Southern's lift bridge at the mouth of the Cuyahoga?  As much as the land bridge will connect people to d*ck Pace's development, and the multi-modal transportation center will be transformative (love it!), the pedestrian bridge crossing from Voinovich Bicentennial Park across North Coast harbor is much less impactful than if one could walk/run/bike from E 9th to Whiskey Island/Edgewater without routing through the flats. Being a busy commercial port and shipping channel with lake freighters/ore ships/cruise ships, etc using our navigable river, I understand the inherent limitations of blocking/constraining the mouth of the river, but what would a pedestrian bridge look like there (in terms of grading/approach/length/cost/funding/etc)?

In theory it's a good idea. 

 

But there is no place to build a pedestrian bridge that would parallel the Norfolk Southern's lift bridge on the east side of the Cuyahoga river.  That's because of the strict Federal Security Plan for the Port Authority.  Without proper Federal Port Security I.D., no one is normally permitted on Port property without a paid escort which cost $ 50 per hour.  

 

And just south of the Norfolk Southern's lift bridge is the Flats Eastbank's FORWARD DAY & NIGHTCLUB complex.  

And next to that is the empty grass area next to boardwalk where WOLSTEIN'S is going to be building the three new restaurants as part of phase three.

 

Maybe they could rearrange the layout of the new restaurants? 

But the Ontario Stone industrial site is straight across the river from that area....

Edited by Larry1962

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4 hours ago, KJP said:

lakefront+plan+PACE_09-10-19.jpg

 

THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 19, 2019

Lakefront development project to start this winter

 

After shedding its partner Trammel Crow Co., things are starting to move a little faster for Cumberland Development LLC. when it comes to its lakefront development project. Demolition for and construction of the lakefront project is due to start in January.

This week, Cumberland President d*ck Pace released a fully updated plan (see image above) for his lakefront development that includes timelines and phasing for new and larger buildings. The revised plan also scuttles the idea of re-using one of the two old Dock 30 port warehouses as previously proposed. Instead, both warehouses are to be demolished.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/09/lakefront-development-project-to-start.html

 

Great article!! One minor correction is Harbor Verandas is 16 apartments not 8.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/life-and-culture/erry-2018/12/cc18ff039b2649/tour-the-luxury-harbor-veranda.html

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Does this mean that if they build the land bridge we can start planning convention center expansion.

Or would a CC expansion be done at the same time the land bridge goes in?

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Great news!  Thanks for another great article to KJP - much appreciated.  To focus on the residential aspect of the plan -  It's a major step forward for the lakefront, one which so many of us have been hoping for for so long.  Modern new residences right on the water, in such a unique  neighborhood, will be a great look  for the city - an incentive that land-locked cities small and large will not be able to match, given our coastline.  The lifestyle afforded in this development will be a tempting lure for the kind of new talent and entrepreneurs that may want to make Cleveland home (or home again.)  Here's hoping that this is one project that becomes a reality, without significant delay or downsizing. 

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I can't read the tiny writing either (even after zooming in). Anyone know if the apartments are rentals or for-sale units (or both)?

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1 minute ago, Pugu said:

I can't read the tiny writing either (even after zooming in). Anyone know if the apartments are rentals or for-sale units (or both)?

Rentals, he stated. Has to do with the land lease from the city. Selling something on top of something that someone else owns I guess could pose some problems down the road.

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10 hours ago, cle_guy90 said:

 

Great article!! One minor correction is Harbor Verandas is 16 apartments not 8.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/life-and-culture/erry-2018/12/cc18ff039b2649/tour-the-luxury-harbor-veranda.html

 

Thanks. Fixed it.

 

BTW, here's a detailed PDF of the lakefront masterplan so that you can read everything.....

http://freepdfhosting.com/be77f5938d.pdf

 

 

Edited by KJP
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Just a thought: I wonder if rotating buildings 1 and 2 is possible. Wouldn’t the dog park and pool fare better against lakefront weather if a building was blocking the worst of the weather?

 

Regarding the liner homes, would these have parking or would renters park in the larger garage complex? I guess it makes sense to have liner townhomes instead of liner apartments? But it would be super weird (IMHO) to have 40 driveways surrounding a parking garage. 

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10 minutes ago, Clevecane said:

Just a thought: I wonder if rotating buildings 1 and 2 is possible. Wouldn’t the dog park and pool fare better against lakefront weather if a building was blocking the worst of the weather?

 

Regarding the liner homes, would these have parking or would renters park in the larger garage complex? I guess it makes sense to have liner townhomes instead of liner apartments? But it would be super weird (IMHO) to have 40 driveways surrounding a parking garage. 

I hope parking is in the garage.

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5 minutes ago, troeros said:

I see a parking garage, plus surface parking....Is that not quite a large mix of surface parking/parking garage for an urban development? 

As KJP noted, there's a requirement with the Stadium lease to have all that surface parking - but could someday become part of an additional phase or more parking garages.

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3 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

So these buildings are going to be for residents and office building tenants basically. No other uses for the public that I saw unless I missed it. Great...

 

You must have missed the new public STEM school, and the park, and the playground, and the superman statute, and the hotel, and the restaurant.

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6 minutes ago, smimes said:

 

You must have missed the new public STEM school, and the park, and the playground, and the superman statute, and the hotel, and the restaurant.

The hotel is one of the biggest maybes of this whole project along with the STEM school. The residential buildings 4,3,2 seem the most solidified out of the bunch. The most definite buildings are missing interactive elements for the public. You can't just redo these projects especially with how long it took to even get to this point. Developers talk about wanting to create a vibrant neighborhood around Browns stadium and our lakefront but are proposing single use buildings. Props to D I C K Pace for getting to this point when others couldn't but this is a one shot deal, we have to get it right. Having seafood or marine based restaurants along the water akin to Alley Cat in the flats would go a long way to making this a vibrant area.

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3 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

The hotel is one of the biggest maybes of this whole project along with the STEM school. The residential buildings 4,3,2 seem the most solidified out of the bunch. The most definite buildings are missing interactive elements for the public. You can't just redo these projects especially with how long it took to even get to this point. Developers talk about wanting to create a vibrant neighborhood around Browns stadium and our lakefront but are proposing single use buildings. Props to D I C K Pace for getting to this point when others couldn't but this is a one shot deal, we have to get it right. Having seafood or marine based restaurants along the water akin to Alley Cat in the flats would go a long way to making this a vibrant area.

Who says there won’t be these restaurants? If the demand is there, more will come. Also curious to see if there will be restaurants in first floor of residential as an option.

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1 minute ago, MyPhoneDead said:

The hotel is one of the biggest maybes of this whole project along with the STEM school. The residential buildings 4,3,2 seem the most solidified out of the bunch. The most definite buildings are missing interactive elements for the public. You can't just redo these projects especially with how long it took to even get to this point. Developers talk about wanting to create a vibrant neighborhood around Browns stadium and our lakefront but are proposing single use buildings. Props to D I C K Pace for getting to this point when others couldn't but this is a one shot deal, we have to get it right. Having seafood or marine based restaurants along the water akin to Alley Cat in the flats would go a long way to making this a vibrant area.

 

Yeah, being so close to the browns stadium you really should also think about the, "tourists" in mind. It would have been a great spot for a mini Venice board walk/shops/cafes/seafood restaurants, etc.

 

This would have been an ideal place for toutists to linger being so close to the browns stadium..but you have to give them a good reason to linger. 

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The office building is also going to be difficult even if Pace can find a large anchor tenant. It's going to require some hard-to-find subsidies.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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5 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Yeah, being so close to the browns stadium you really should also think about the, "tourists" in mind. It would have been a great spot for a mini Venice board walk/shops/cafes/seafood restaurants, etc.

 

This would have been an ideal place for toutists to linger being so close to the browns stadium..but you have to give them a good reason to linger. 

Thank you. That is all I'm saying. Glad for the development, but  if you are going to do it we must get it right. 

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Feels like an awful lot of open space - wide roads, random plazas, fountains, etc.  Seems like it will feel suburban and spread out and not interesting for pedestrians.  Doesn't seem like a nice place to take a stroll...

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7 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

Who says there won’t be these restaurants? If the demand is there, more will come. Also curious to see if there will be restaurants in first floor of residential as an option.

His article doesn't mention restaurants or retail at all for the residential buildings.

Screen Shot 2019-09-20 at 10.42.22 AM.png

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I have confidence in d*ck Pace. He appears to have a good relationship with the city and, while he's cautious and methodical in his approach, unlike some other developers, he does deliver. So far, the development has been impressive.

 

I do miss Captain Frank's though. 

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14 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Yeah, being so close to the browns stadium you really should also think about the, "tourists" in mind. It would have been a great spot for a mini Venice board walk/shops/cafes/seafood restaurants, etc.

 

This would have been an ideal place for toutists to linger being so close to the browns stadium..but you have to give them a good reason to linger. 

Actually if you zoom in quite a bit on the PDF you can see there are retail liners on the south sides of buildings 1-3. Doesn't appear to be as much as I'd have hoped for at a location like this, and I'd prefer there be some on building 4 since that's being built first, but better than nothing I suppose.

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1 minute ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

@KJP This is probably something for a different/new thread- but what would need to happen for construction prices to come back down?  

 

Either the state passing right-to-work laws or the city of Cleveland rescinding prevailing wage requirements. Neither is going to happen.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Thank you as always, @KJP! Scrolling through the CPC slideshow for the multimodal hub really quickens my pulse. I absolutely love the cited inspirational elements, especially the “Great Halls”- style trans hubs of other cities, and the Great Lakes Exposition of ‘36-‘37, which conceptually ties the project back to the city’s grand history. Here’s hoping the new lakefront development can trigger a cyclical momentum that results in the land bridge and new trans hub finally seeing fruition in the next 5 years or so! 

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10 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

His article doesn't mention restaurants or retail at all for the residential buildings.

Screen Shot 2019-09-20 at 10.42.22 AM.png

Yeah that’s the proposed but I’m curious if design review and planning will voice an opinion for some retail.

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