Jump to content
zaceman

Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, surfohio said:

Edgewater Park

Parking and Traffic Flow • Consider parking management efforts in the main lot to encourage carpooling, biking, walking or transit 

 

So, does this mean a paid parking lot? If so, that's going to be controversial. Doesn't the fact the lot is super crowded already encourage these other options?

 

It seems it will be an option, yes.

1E57550B-4D4D-4F26-A29D-84933F830A8A.jpeg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ I could be wrong, but it seems any proposal to charge for parking is just going to make the bottleneck traffic situation even worse. 

 

Sand dunes and more natural habitat areas are a big plus. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/8/2019 at 9:55 PM, freethink said:

This is an idea I put together regarding Convention Center expansion but It also involves the proposed land bridge, so here you go...

IMG_20190908_132548_449.JPG

That's a great idea regarding a Convention Center expansion that also involves the proposed land bridge.

 

My IDEA that I've been working on for a while now is for a combination of a LAND BRIDGE and CONVENTION 

CENTER EXPANSION.That would provide a landscaped NEW MALL D area which is approximately 400 feet wide and approximately 450-500 feet long that would also accommodate extra meeting rooms and more exhibition space.  It would provide a 20-27 foot clearance underneath for double stacked trains.  And if it keeps the same elevation as the existing Mall C and Convention Center it would provide plenty of room underneath for a New Multi Modal Transportation Center as KJP has suggested in the past as well as the existing Shoreway.  And it would also provide plenty of room underneath near the Science Center and the newly ADDED DOME Browns Stadium for retail,  maybe a hotel, connections to both facilities, and elevators and stairs to the ground level plaza.

 

And as a ADDED BONUS if the BROWNS STADIUM has a DOME added to it and it's directly connected to the expanded Convention Center then it's floor/field area could be included in the total amount of exhibition space. As other cities do like INDIANAPOLIS.

 

EDIT:

I know that adding an additional 100,000+ sq. ft. of exhibition space and meeting rooms will be an expensive long teem project. 

 

But by added a Land Bridge it will totally change the look, access and usefulness of the CLEVELAND LAKEFRONT!! 

 

And it will help to ensure the success of both Pace's New Lakefront Development and any new plans for BROWNS FIRST ENERGY STADIUM too!

Edited by Larry1962
Added sq. ft. of expanded Convention Center
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Downtown CLE currently doesn't compete for very large conventions because the facilities to house such conventions don't exist downtown.  Convention fees and hotel taxes make these types of facilities viable in places like Indy.  An expanded convention center, funded by out-of-town conventioneers, that doubles as a land bridge to connect the lakefront to downtown seems like a Win-Win-Win.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not familiar with the convention world at all. Is it possible the big convention  market is already well saturated? Or is it the type of cutthroat sector where the newest and nicest facilities get the bookings? Its sounds like a good way to get the ball rolling on a land bridge (in combination with multi modal transit hub) but I wonder if we would be building new convention infrastructure with little ROI.

Edited by viscomi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, viscomi said:

I'm not familiar with the convention world at all. Is it possible the big convention  market is already well saturated? Or is it the type of cutthroat sector where the newest and nicest facilities get the bookings? Its sounds like a good way to get the ball rolling on a land bridge (in combination with multi modal transit hub) but I wonder if we would be building new convention infrastructure with little ROI.

 

It's been pretty well brutalized since 9/11/2001.    

 

Most conventions go to destinations like Orlando, NOLA and Vegas for weather and "extracurricular" activities.   

 

Others go to government centers (like Indy) or business centers (like NYC and Chicago) for reasons that suit their clientele. 

 

Cleveland would face an uphill battle competing against many of these, but I could see us getting some high-profile health care business if the Clinic got behind it.  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

It's been pretty well brutalized since 9/11/2001.    

 

Most conventions go to destinations like Orlando, NOLA and Vegas for weather and "extracurricular" activities.   

 

Others go to government centers (like Indy) or business centers (like NYC and Chicago) for reasons that suit their clientele. 

 

Cleveland would face an uphill battle competing against many of these, but I could see us getting some high-profile health care business if the Clinic got behind it.  

 

911 accelerated a trend that was already in place, a major deemphasis on business travel, including conventions.  This is quite welcome to a lot of us who used to have to do it.   Nothing like blowing an entire workday, plus, for a one hour meeting.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/9/2019 at 1:58 PM, Cleburger said:

 

It's been pretty well brutalized since 9/11/2001.    

 

Most conventions go to destinations like Orlando, NOLA and Vegas for weather and "extracurricular" activities.   

 

Others go to government centers (like Indy) or business centers (like NYC and Chicago) for reasons that suit their clientele. 

 

Cleveland would face an uphill battle competing against many of these, but I could see us getting some high-profile health care business if the Clinic got behind it.  

It's true that we CAN'T compete with the top convention centers.

 

BUT we can and should compete with our peers like COLUMBUS which has a convention center that's nearly double our size! 

If we can't beat COLUMBUS, then should get out of the business totally!

 

If we added 30 to 50 new meeting rooms and also expanded the exhibition space, we could compete with PITTSBURGH, COLUMBUS, NASHVILLE, and others in this area of the country!

Edited by Larry1962
  • Dislike 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Larry1962 said:

If we can't beat a "Cow Town", then should get out of the business totally!

Is this comment really necessary? Besides being dramatic, it's also incendiary. The "Cow Town" moniker is outdated; Columbus has come a long way over the last several decades and has made amazing strides in infill and a shift towards more dense, urban projects throughout the city. We do not succeed by putting other cities down and Ohio is blessed to have three, distinct, vibrant cities.

 

And who says we're failing in the convention business? From the articles I've seen it looks like we are doing well and growing, but that there are improvements that can be made to attract more and larger events...and that's not a failure. We should always be striving to improve and I think that there are steps that can be taken to make our convention business stronger; like building more hotels with meeting spaces, expansion of convention center over the railroad tracks (which if done in conjunction w/ lakefront transit center could have far greater impact on our city), or other options that have no doubt been discussed in this and other, more appropriate threads like this one.

  • Like 7
  • Dislike 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, andrew0816 said:

Is this comment really necessary? Besides being dramatic, it's also incendiary. The "Cow Town" moniker is outdated; Columbus has come a long way over the last several decades and has made amazing strides in infill and a shift towards more dense, urban projects throughout the city. We do not succeed by putting other cities down and Ohio is blessed to have three, distinct, vibrant cities.

 

Columbus is also the center of state government in Ohio, which gives it a head start in attracting any statewide conventions, just like in Indianapolis, etc. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Each of the three "Cs" has their own unique qualities that should be marketed accordingly to attract conventions. Unlike the other two, Cleveland benefits from world-reknowned, outstanding arts & culture (CMA, PHSF, CO, RRHF, etc.)3 pro-sports team venues, top-world ranked medical facilities, proximity to Cedar Point/Lake Erie islands and a dense urban core.

 

Are these advantages being appropriately marketed to conventioners?

Edited by Frmr CLEder
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

 

Columbus is also the center of state government in Ohio, which gives it a head start in attracting any statewide conventions, just like in Indianapolis, etc. 

 

Just by being the geographic center they get a lot of meeting business. Anything related to education, state or local government always meets in Columbus.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't feel these conversations about the convention center should be centered around the lakefront thread. This would mean the Hilton is included right? So i'm going to create a separate topic for the convention center.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can we start a discussion of why the Soap Box Derby track takes up that prime piece of real estate? You could literally put that anywhere. All you need is a slight hill. It’s for one weekend a year, and isn’t that large of a draw. 

Edited by marty15
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ I don't think there will be developers pushing hard for that site while others exist nearby, and the current odors continue to permeate. I always catch the strongest whiffs going by the derby track.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder what happened that the odors have been so bad for the past year-ish.  I don't remember it being that bad before.  Sucks for the people who've purchased homes in that area in the last couple years at high prices, just to have the neighborhood constantly smell like sewer.  Sucks for the people that have lived there a long time, too, of course!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I feel like there's lots of plants around that don't have the smell one.  There's one in the Rocky River Valley right on the west end of Lakewood / East of Rocky River that I've spent a lot of time in the general vicinity of and have never got any fumes from it.  I wonder if there's some type of design deficiency at the one on the shoreway there.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/10/2019 at 10:00 AM, Frmr CLEder said:

Each of the three "Cs" has their own unique qualities that should be marketed accordingly to attract conventions. Unlike the other two, Cleveland benefits from world-reknowned, outstanding arts & culture (CMA, PHSF, CO, RRHF, etc.)3 pro-sports team venues, top-world ranked medical facilities, proximity to Cedar Point/Lake Erie islands and a dense urban core.

 

Are these advantages being appropriately marketed to conventioners?

Toledo (pop.275K) gets no respect from the 3Cs even though it's only slightly smaller than Cincinnati (pop. 299K). Ohio should be recognised as having four significant cities rather than three imo.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, shack said:

Toledo (pop.275K) gets no respect from the 3Cs even though it's only slightly smaller than Cincinnati (pop. 299K). Ohio should be recognised as having four significant cities rather than three imo.

While completely irrelevant to this thread, Toledo's MSA is smaller than Akron and Dayton.

  • Like 5
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Urgent request ... can somebody find me a pic of that old design competition entry for bridging the Shoreway from about a decade ago ... the one with the wavy/undulating white steps that almost evoked a Santiago Calatrava Design?

 

I’m at a party with a high ranking city official and we are chatting about projects. I brought that old design up and he said he didn’t recall it. Thanks!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Paul in Cleveland said:

Urgent request ... can somebody find me a pic of that old design competition entry for bridging the Shoreway from about a decade ago ... the one with the wavy/undulating white steps that almost evoked a Santiago Calatrava Design?

 

I’m at a party with a high ranking city official and we are chatting about projects. I brought that old design up and he said he didn’t recall it. Thanks!

https://www.cleveland.com/architecture/2010/01/cleveland_design_competition_w.html?outputType=amp

A3E23231-E1F8-4FA4-92A2-149D7F5EBE05.jpeg

Edited by Sapper Daddy
There’s a second picture contained inside the article
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Paul in Cleveland said:

So there may be movement on some sort of lakefront bridge soon. That's all I know, but it comes from a very credible, high-on-the-food-chain source. I got the impression that something new was involved.

My feeling on any "bridge" to the lakefront is that we have to go "All-In" with an ambitious plan for it to have a real impact. Otherwise it will likely be a boondoggle.  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Paul in Cleveland said:

So there may be movement on some sort of lakefront bridge soon. That's all I know, but it comes from a very credible, high-on-the-food-chain source. I got the impression that something new was involved.

Man, that’s terrific news, but definitely the news we’ve been burnt by before.  Are you able to hint at who’s backing this?  Public/private partnership I hope.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/16/2019 at 3:08 PM, Sapper Daddy said:

Man, that’s terrific news, but definitely the news we’ve been burnt by before.  Are you able to hint at who’s backing this?  Public/private partnership I hope.

 

I wasn't told anything more than there may be movement on it soon. I could tell that the person wasn't willing/able to share any more so I didn't push it. Especially in a casual, party setting. 🙂

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A nice landscaped and  functional Land Bridge which includes an expansion of the Convention Center would be GREAT!

It would of course make it easier to get to all of the attractions at North Coast Harbor by walking and it should help with added attendance. 

And if they can design it to include space for additional development and a multi modal transportation hub like KJP has wrote about, it could also help with the BROWN'S and PACE'S potential development plans too!

Edited by Larry1962
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Paul in Cleveland said:

 

I wasn't told anything more than there may be movement on it soon. I could tell that the person wasn't willing/able to share any more so I didn't push it. Especially in a casual, party setting. 🙂

 

Next time, liquor-up that guy! 😮

 

EDIT: he won't need to. I just found out some of the gory details. Article coming, along with renderings (hopefully!).

Edited by KJP
  • Like 12
  • Thanks 2
  • Haha 1

"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege." -- Tommy Douglas, Scottish-born Canadian Baptist minister and the seventh Premier of Saskatchewan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Next time, liquor-up that guy! 😮

 

EDIT: he won't need to. I just found out some of the gory details. Article coming, along with renderings (hopefully!).

Hopefully gory news is good news. It has to be be land bridge with the intermodal transportation system.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/16/2019 at 12:08 PM, Sapper Daddy said:

Man, that’s terrific news, but definitely the news we’ve been burnt by before

Only about 22 times lol. I'm not the only one on this forum who has kept an entire drawer full of abandoned Lakefront plans. 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Next time, liquor-up that guy! 😮

 

EDIT: he won't need to. I just found out some of the gory details. Article coming, along with renderings (hopefully!).

I have this bad feeling it's going to be like what happened with the North Coast Harbor Bridge. And it's going to look exactly like it, just bigger

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...