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Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News

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3 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Hopefully the city already has another partner lined up, otherwise that’s going to continue being dead space for a long time. 

 

They do. Remember I posted here on Dec. 18 that the city was seeking a new development partner? I wasn't able to say much at the time, but now that Michelle has come out with her article, I will come out with mine.

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Sigh....but clearly no surprise.  Pace was definitely in over his head as has been regularly noted.  The real screw up was probably the city going with him in the first place.  So another 6 years of planning and promise down the drain.  Really tacky how the city managed the divorce rather than sitting down with him way back when and saying we have problems with how things are going and need to separate.   So we start again from square one.  Hope the Browns really have a plan, resources and partners and are ready to go.

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2 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Sigh....but clearly no surprise.  Pace was definitely in over his head as has been regularly noted.  The real screw up was probably the city going with him in the first place.  So another 6 years of planning and promise down the drain.  Really tacky how the city managed the divorce rather than sitting down with him way back when and saying we have problems with how things are going and need to separate.   So we start again from square one.  Hope the Browns really have a plan, resources and partners and are ready to go.

 

Browns aren't leading this. They are a partner and they've got resources. They have a voice in the plan but this type of real estate project is not the Haslams' expertise.

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Turns out my information from December -- that K&D would take over the lakefront development -- is no longer correct. I will attempt to find out who the new developer will be.

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On 2/27/2020 at 4:40 PM, Larry1962 said:

 

The problem is that Toledo actually built a cruise ship terminal about ten years ago BUT they was not able to make a success of it.  And so they sold or lease the building to the Great Lakes Museum.   Which by the way I've been to and it's a really nice museum. 

 

 

 

 

booo!   ---  they stole that from vermilion  😡

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Its upsetting how the city just ghosted a developer who really put some skin into the game.  Not returning phone calls is crappy

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One can only assume that someone with a bigger plan and deeper pockets has come along. While a terrible way to end the relationship, it may turn out to be for the best as DP's partnership dissolved and the project was moving along much too slowly.

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To assume there is a better developer with a bigger plan and deeper pockets might be problematic. Just a thought -but does it seem like there is a growing lack of certainty  about where the Browns’ stadium will actually be in the future and isn’t that decision critical to any development moving forward on the lakefront? 

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Reading that article, the city came off so poorly in my eyes. Why would other investors want to come to town and work in this city if that's how they can expect to be treated?

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The City screwed Pace over.  He's a great developer.  The city's administration is a problem.

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6 hours ago, sky said:

The City screwed Pace over.  He's a great developer.  The city's administration is a problem.

I have no trouble blaming city officials and their seemingly never ending blunders.  But Pace, and the snail’s pace (no pun intended) at which he moved this development forward shares some blame.

 

I can’t say I’m shocked the relationship soured, as stated in the article, after five years where we only saw a restaurant and 16 residential units built.

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Pace's first mistake was pairing with Trammel Crow. He thought he had tapped a source of financing but TC was a huge disappointment. Pace didn't have the access to capital on his own so it was only a matter of time before he got thrown off the job if he didn't get another sugar daddy. Yes, the city should have been more upfront with him. But this administration needs to be more upfront and open to everyone. But the city can't use the fairness argument that they treat everyone equally -- all bad. So now developers are converging on City Hall to pick up the pieces and help put this back together again.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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8 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Could that be related to the Historic Hulett Iron Ore Unloaders?

 

That looks like the location where there WAS a plan to partially install one of the Huletts as part of D*ck Pace's project for the lakefront...

Edited by Larry1962
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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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6 hours ago, Larry1962 said:

Could that be related to the Historic Hulett Iron Ore Unloaders?

 

That looks like the location where there WAS a plan to partially install one of the Huletts as part of D*ck Pace's project for the lakefront...

 

@Larry1962 A reply from the North Coast Harbor Twitter account....

 

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9 hours ago, KJP said:

 

 

It's always nice to see efforts to encourage regionalism and doing so within NOACA's territory makes sense given they control their own destiny, but I cannot help but feel that it falls short if it doesn't aspirationally extend to cooperating with other MPOs, namely AMATS, in long-range visions.

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Coronavirus pandemic adversely affects Lake Erie cruise business just as Cleveland looks forward to it's best year yet.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Mendo said:

 

People have posted conceptual pics before with the Shoreway converted to a boulevard. The amount of developable land that it would open up is tremendous. Converting it to an at-grade street would be totally worth it, even with the rail lines still there.

 

(From the Cleveland Historic Photos thread)

 

Just imagine how a boulevard would change the experience for pedestrians.  Cyclists.  If we really want to access the lake from downtown, converting the Shoreway to a boulevard should be a high priority.

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, skiwest said:

Were the conceptual pics posted in this thread or elsewhere?

 

Of removing/downgrading the Shoreway? If so, yes. The diagrams and renderings are everywhere. 

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A few pictures I got from someone I know who is working on the North Coast harbor pedestrian bridge.  Enjoy.

571DE5BE-DF51-402A-BD9E-74DA2F7B4FEF.jpeg

F95AF394-3ADF-4BA5-8636-30D2B93C4858.jpeg

D4CF8DB8-F14F-4773-8515-58432437F636.jpeg

A5911A57-823F-43E9-B059-2981C5904ABB.jpeg

12B0CA5D-EA0E-41FD-B1F3-C45B8369982E.jpeg

CF873EF2-CD14-4046-A7CE-80890ECCF1D6.jpeg

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^^Sigh...I got excited when I saw your post and thought you meant some renderings of design work for a pedestrian bridge over the RR tracks and  shoreway.

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I actually think the design is sorta cool...
 

To me, it’s giving a nod to the many beautiful, historic bridges along the Cuyahoga with a modern/abstract take on their architecture and design.

6DA98BD9-35E9-49F0-A8A3-DD440D29E504.jpeg

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Not only a bad design, but unnecessary IMO.  Is it really that difficult to walk around the harbor?

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15 minutes ago, skiwest said:

Not only a bad design, but unnecessary IMO.  Is it really that difficult to walk around the harbor?

 

You live in America, where people drive around for five minutes looking for a parking space near the front door to the fitness center.

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14 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

You live in America, where people drive around for five minutes looking for a parking space near the front door to the fitness center.

Worse yet, some have valet parking.   

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4 minutes ago, skiwest said:

Not only a bad design, but unnecessary IMO.  Is it really that difficult to walk around the harbor?

I'm with you in the unnecessary part, but we american's are lazy people- I want to say most people don't want to walk over .25 miles, and will drive if it's like a half mile or more (I'll see if I can dig up a source, I'm paraphrasing from undergrad work), but from point to point it's about .6 miles so, yeah, dumb but I get it.

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41 minutes ago, skiwest said:

Not only a bad design, but unnecessary IMO.  Is it really that difficult to walk around the harbor?

Especially given how many other worthwhile public infrastructure projects on the lakefront are begging for $$ and are pipe dreams until the money is found (eg. extension of mall over the RR tracks and shoreway-as I beat a dead horse).

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Sure, we're lazy, but where exactly does this bridge make the walk from-to shorter?  It would have been better placed at the mouth of the harbor, not diagonally across the middle.

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As I recall, this is a multi-million dollar project. This project is moving forward whereas the iconic Rosales project across the Shoreway and RR tracks, including its $35M financing was placed on hold, indefinitely.

 

Go figure?

Edited by Frmr CLEder

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28 minutes ago, X said:

Sure, we're lazy, but where exactly does this bridge make the walk from-to shorter?  It would have been better placed at the mouth of the harbor, not diagonally across the middle.

My guess is the development that may or may not happen at the warehouses across the way. If the Haslam's have their way I could see this totally being worth it. Maybe haha.

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But it doesn't really make that trip much shorter either.    It would if they had put it at the mouth of the harbor, not diagonally across the middle.

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On 4/14/2020 at 5:06 PM, dave2017 said:

Thanks for the construction photos!  I just wish this design wasnt what the final product will be

drawbridge1.png

drawbridge2.png

 

I had tried to put out of my mind how awful the final product was going to look. This is nothing short of an embarrassment for the city, and at such a visible spot, ugh. If you gave me the choice of having this or an ugly cell phone tower at this spot and no bridge, I'd pick the latter.

 

I'm going to start a campaign to name this the Frank Jackson Bridge, for it encompasses exactly what you get when you settle for things. 😞

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6 hours ago, X said:

But it doesn't really make that trip much shorter either.    It would if they had put it at the mouth of the harbor, not diagonally across the middle.

Whoops, my bad, here I was thinking it was going at the mouth. 

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I the saddest part of the design IMO is the command post building to the north of the bridge.  The idea that we need to employ a human being to push the open close button seems ridiculous.

Edited by West153

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3 minutes ago, West153 said:

I the saddest part of the design IMO is the command post building to the north of the bridge.  The idea that we need to employ a human being to push the open close button seems ridiculous.

 

If the City of Cleveland is staffing this, it will be a highly coveted "seasonal full time with benefits" position.   

 

I'm still wondering who is maintaining the bridge?   

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And I wonder how many times the bridge will be stuck in the up position due to mechanic difficulties.

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8 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

If the City of Cleveland is staffing this, it will be a highly coveted "seasonal full time with benefits" position.   

 

I'm still wondering who is maintaining the bridge?   

I’m 99% sure it’s the City. They’re definitely the owner anyway.


Every movable bridge in the City has an operator’s house (I believe) so I’m not surprised this is any different. Remember the NS bridge? It still has an operator even though the actual movement is controlled at their HQ.

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7 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

I’m 99% sure it’s the City. They’re definitely the owner anyway.


Every movable bridge in the City has an operator’s house (I believe) so I’m not surprised this is any different. Remember the NS bridge? It still has an operator even though the actual movement is controlled at their HQ.

 

RANT ON -- Except the movable bridges for railroads are staffed and paid by the individual railroad companies. I doubt gas taxes or license plate fees reimburse the city for their staffing of movable road bridges. -- RANT OFF

Edited by KJP
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1 minute ago, KJP said:

 

RANT ON -- Except the movable bridges for railroads are staffed and paid by the individual railroad companies. I doubt gas taxes or license plate fees reimburse the city for their staffing of movable road bridges. -- RANT OFF

True. Honestly you would think it would be fairly easy to operate all of these remotely. I’m curious if there might be some regulatory reason...maybe that will be my bored Coronavirus thing today. 

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Here’s another potential inspiration for our proposed land bridge from the Mall over the RR tracks and Shoreway - a D.C. park bridge over the Anacosta. 

 

https://archpaper.com/2020/04/washington-dc-11th-street-bridge-park-blessing-national-capital-planning-commission/#gallery-0-slide-2
 

“The 11th Street Bridge Park, a vaguely High Line-y elevated park that’s eternally been in the works for Washington, D.C.’s Anacostia river-severed southeastern quadrant, has passed a major milestone by receiving the green light from the National Capital Planning Commission (NCPC). The good news was shared by the New York office of OMA, one of two firms—the other being Philadelphia-based landscape design studio OLIN—behind the design of the programming-packed, 1.45-mile-long recreational park will span the Anacostia River along the revitalized bones of an old 1960s-era vehicular bridge.”

 

Construction is set to kick off in 2021. 
 

B65EE308-ED1E-4146-932B-BF6A22D6E174.thumb.jpeg.b4d273a7ba4760ef19393e18cc4522ce.jpeg

 

E37393AE-E491-4A53-8921-FB6A125018CA.thumb.jpeg.a87079b4dbc71ec47d0e3bd22b0ac32e.jpeg
 

63041FDB-FFC5-4B31-B7CD-00F6A9756DDA.thumb.jpeg.2d20ac8dc9edd3bcb18b296be156e898.jpeg

 

025D0C39-0171-45DB-ACC1-2CFB20CF8AF1.thumb.jpeg.2a9ec763e3b08e7225ddc59d0cdfb91f.jpeg

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I think something like the above could be great.  Another idea is to put the highway and railroad below ground via a tunnel from near the river out past the airport.  Then you could have sidewalks, grass or roads wherever you need... and it would be a lot more convenient. 

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What happens west of the tunnel?  How does rail and vehicular traffic cross the river?

Edited by skiwest

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