Jump to content
zaceman

Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News

Recommended Posts

Because Stan doesn't have the sources I have. If he did, he wouldn't keep getting scooped by me. ūüėČ

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, roman totale XVII said:

Many? It's a crappy brochure for sure, but I only noticed one, 'hild', when I scanned it.

Cleveland now leads the nation in season ticket holders for touring Broadway shows.

^ I thought that was interesting. But yeah the brochure seems like an incomplete and rushed job. They leave out Crocker Park under the area retail section, but include Summit Mall? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, surfohio said:

Cleveland now leads the nation in season ticket holders for touring Broadway shows.

^ I thought that was interesting. But yeah the brochure seems like an incomplete and rushed job. They leave out Crocker Park under the area retail section, but include Summit Mall? 

They also cited Case but don't put them down as a college/university in Cleveland...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, MikeyB440 said:

They also cited Case but don't put them down as a college/university in Cleveland...

Right lol. Even including Kent at all seems a but facetious. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at the interior renderings, I'm struggling to see how this plan is any different from Tower City or the Galleria.  And if we can't fill those why build another mall?  Why not use this tenant concept for one of those malls instead? 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/23/2019 at 11:27 PM, freethink said:

So the last time I posted something about the Outlet Shoppes at Cleveland, it got ugly. MayDay brought the Ax, people got suspended..lol. Hey I'm just the messenger! Anyway it is just another project I keep an eye on. So The Horizon Group just posted there 2018 3rd quarter results and it shows predevelopment costs of 405k toward the Shoppes of Cle, up from 181k in 2017. What is also interesting is that Horizon has abandoned 2 other projects one in CT the other in Malaysia to concentrate on other projects with Cleveland being one. That's the second time recently that a company, the other being City Club Apartments, left other markets to focus on Cleveland. Interesting. They have also posted a new marketing brochure with some different images than before. Just your basic renderings but they are updated. Just to refresh this would be built across from BKL between the Shoreway and the RR tracks bounded by 90 to the east and into to a part of the muni lot to the west. Not crazy about that site. If they are determined to build this my choice would be on and around the Greyhound property between 13th and 17th. across from Hofbrau House. Link to brochure http://www.horizongroup.com/Post/sections/3/Files/cleveland 2018 lw.pdf

 

pixlr_20190223223651155.jpg

I know I’m in the minority here but I love it. I think it’s a great idea and will attract people who may not ordinarily come downtown or to the city in general 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm indifferent. But if it spurs residential development of the Muny Lots (or even Burke), then I'm for it.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, simplythis said:

Is this in the same location ( North side of the freeway ).?

Now it's south. 

Edited by surfohio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/24/2019 at 8:17 AM, KJP said:

One positive to this is that it could lead to development of housing on the Muny Lots. Although that could block my plan for extending the Waterfront Line as a downtown loop.... 

 

 

Wasn't that the original plan? The usage would surely increase, especially with proximity/access to CSU and other area businesses.

 

Also, what is the viability of an outlet mall in the urban core? Who would it be competing with? Aurora? That sure is a haul, but another new shopping center for Cleveland when many are struggling? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless I missed it, it doesn't seem anyone has posted this recent piece from Crains. In it Richard Pace says he will start another project in June. Now remember this June is when his option is up with the city so he is going to have to turn some dirt. The article mentions a 'school' but nothing further on that. Not sure where that came from. As speculated by another poster here it may be those warehouses already on site that is the target.

 

"Developer Dick Pace of Cumberland Real Estate Development told Crain's he expects to break ground in June on land north of FirstEnergy Stadium that will be home to a school and a residential neighborhood."

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/government/opening-new-fronts-cleveland-lakefront-development

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/26/2019 at 10:49 PM, freethink said:

Unless I missed it, it doesn't seem anyone has posted this recent piece from Crains. In it Richard Pace says he will start another project in June. Now remember this June is when his option is up with the city so he is going to have to turn some dirt. The article mentions a 'school' but nothing further on that. Not sure where that came from. As speculated by another poster here it may be those warehouses already on site that is the target.

 

"Developer Dick Pace of Cumberland Real Estate Development told Crain's he expects to break ground in June on land north of FirstEnergy Stadium that will be home to a school and a residential neighborhood."

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/government/opening-new-fronts-cleveland-lakefront-development

 

 

A lot of information in that article - with a theme being just how unfocused and slow  Cleveland’s 

lakefront development continues to be. The¬†unavailability¬†of money here effectively halts big projects while Pittsburgh, for example, makes a civic investment of ¬†$130 million in their waterfront, profucing¬†$ 2.6 billion in commercial development. We learn that Mayor Jackson and the city do have ‚Äúa vision‚ÄĚ of Cleveland‚Äôs future lakefront - in fact, we‚Äôre 15 years into a 50 year masterplan! However, a master plan for what to do with Burke can‚Äôt begin until 2020 because we‚Äôre going to start a master plan for Cleveland Hopkins - soon. ¬†With this lack of urgency and/or vision, the¬†great steps that are¬†¬†eventually, hopefully taken¬†to transform Cleveland‚Äôs waterfront, are likely to be seen by only the youngest among us.¬†

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The renderings are definitely improved from the previous shoebox design with the addition of the glass and the cantilever roof. I'm not fussed. Traditional retail is a struggling market, but outlet stores don't require the same wealth base that department and designer stores require. Infact, where is the nearest outlet mall, 30-40 miles from downtown? I think it would do alright and it would also get passing trade from i90. I've been to Ohio Station Outlets down in Columbus a few times lately on Sunday afternoons and its been pretty active, whereas I also described on here recently that on my most recent visit to a more traditional yet newer "mall" in Crocker Park on a dry Saturday afternoon it was pretty dead. The location is a bit cut off from the core of downtown however, IMO.

Edited by snakebite

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Will Blockland bridge the gap to the lakefront?

 

So I will admit what I know about Block chain and crypto currency is limited to what I read in the headlines, but I am able to add two and two together, so let me speculate. In a recent post I quoted an article from CrainsCleveland in which Richard Pace/Cumberland suggested they will be ready in June to start a new project, which might include housing and a school. A school? What school. Now let's go back a couple of months when a forum member posted that Richard Pace will be renovating the two warehouses that currently sit North of FES. Enter CrainsCleveland again in an interview today with Jon Pinney who leads Blockland Cleveland in its search for a campus downtown. Pinney is quoted as saying that after evaluating dozens of sites they have come down to one and are in negotiations with the current developer who controls the land. But what he also said is the 150m dollar project would include a k-8 school on its campus. And they are currently working with Vocon on the design. Keep in mind Pinney, who is also part of the group that purchased a block of buildings in the garment district that is rumored to be the new headquarters for a suburban mortgage company is also working with Vocon on that project. Now Pinney who is a lawyer and with his firm has been involved with many recent projects, helping with site acquisition, tax credits, and development is to said to move quickly and hates delays. 

So what does this mean? Below is a wish list of requirements for the campus called 'Genesis' and it seems to fit what could be done with the warehouses and the surrounding property. Pace has also been very quiet and has seemed to move away from his previous vision known as Harborview that we have seen on Loopnet. 

Screenshot_2019-02-28-09-20-41_20190228225120028.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Now that's intriguing analysis! But this plan seems the antithesis of the publicly accessible amenity that the Lakefront is supposed to become. 

[edit: spelling]

Edited by surfohio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^Yes I agree but my dreams of a Chicago type waterfront with its parks and public spaces are probably not reality. I just want good sustainable development, those public type spaces will come if everything else is successful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, freethink said:

^Yes I agree but my dreams of a Chicago type waterfront with its parks and public spaces are probably not reality. I just want good sustainable development, those public type spaces will come if everything else is successful.

We have such little opportunity to remedy our waterfront. Anything other than a publicly welcoming space shouldn't be allowed. It's not like we don't have several hundred thousand acres available that aren't waterfront property.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All this discussion of the new projects makes me hope that the outlet mall does not get built.  I know there might be some benefits but I'd rather all the new retail that could stem from the transformation of TC go to nuCLEus, Euclid Grand, 925 Euclid, and the May Co building.

Edited by cle_guy90
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The North Coast Harbor Pedestrian Bridge was sold yesterday. Slated to be opened in the fall of 2020.

Edited by Enginerd
Clarity
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

The North Coast Pedestrian Bridge was sold yesterday. Slated to be opened in the fall of 2020.

 huh?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^I still don't see the need for it.  I wish the funds could be transfer to more pressing lakefront infrastructure projects.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Htsguy said:

^I still don't see the need for it.  I wish the funds could be transfer to more pressing lakefront infrastructure projects.

 

The bid price was $12.2 million, which was 40% over the estimate. There were also only two bidders...so there is a chance it could be pulled but I would be surprised.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

 

The bid price was $12.2 million, which was 40% over the estimate. There were also only two bidders...so there is a chance it could be pulled but I would be surprised.

I know that is not how it works but wouldn't be great to use that 7 million or so to help kick start the Irishtown Bend project which is going to be transformative for Ohio City and Cleveland as a whole.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^I think I'd be willing to lose that federal earmark if it meant using the $8M in city money on something more meaningful. This whole bridge thing is just throwing good money after bad.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, StapHanger said:

^I think I'd be willing to lose that federal earmark if it meant using the $8M in city money on something more meaningful. This whole bridge thing is just throwing good money after bad.

 

I agree with you. I’m not sure who exactly is supposed to be using this bridge. Maybe once more pace development happens on the other side by the science center? I don’t know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A Bridge to/from Nowhere Nuevo Mod Mex

 

We'd need at least a few-thousand people living north of the Shoreway for this $8million commitment from the city to begin to make sense. Hopefully the Pace development is further along than it seems from afar...

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Side note: You want Cleveland to get real violent, real quick - take away the muni lot. 

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, YABO713 said:

Side note: You want Cleveland to get real violent, real quick - take away the muni lot. 

 

I'm seeing more tailgaters in the parking lots to the west of FES anway. They're going to have to migrate over there. It's bad enough we have a stadium that's used only 10-15 times a year blocking development of the lakefront. I'm not going to shed a tear for a bunch of drunkards who are will someday lose their windswept parking lots to get sh!tfaced 10 days out of 365.

  • Like 2

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

I'm seeing more tailgaters in the parking lots to the west of FES anway. They're going to have to migrate over there. It's bad enough we have a stadium that's used only 10-15 times a year blocking development of the lakefront. I'm not going to shed a tear for a bunch of drunkards who are will someday lose their windswept parking lots to get sh!tfaced 10 days out of 365.

 

You don't know the real us, @KJP !!!! lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rest of sober Cleveland will hold a Monday morning planning commission meeting¬†the day after a home Browns game, with a 24-hour public notice, for the rezoning of the muny lots. If the hungover muny lot partiers are able to drag their a$$es of out bed to attend the hearing, more power to ya!! ūüôā¬†The follow-on RFP for the sale of the lots, preferably in the off-season, will merely be a procedural¬†matter.

Edited by KJP

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"BTW, Marie Antoinette, chopping your head away from the rest of your body will improve you"....

 

 

  • Poison 2
  • Dislike 1

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great to see the continued upward trend in CLE visitors.  I'm really intrigued by the dual purpose land bridge/convention center expansion concept for connecting the lakefront while simultaneously opening CLE to larger conventions.  The investments seem to have paid off with the Huntington Conv. Center and Hilton.  Would love to see the city double-down on that investment.

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/nonprofits/convention-and-visitors-bureau-sets-new-goal 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, RE Developer In Training said:

There's gonna be a ton of national TV coverage of the lakefront for the foreseeable future.  It sure would be nice to see some progress.

 

GO BROWNS!!!!

 

I will personally be showing the world how with a portable grill, some libations, a stogie, and several folding chairs, the Muni Lot is a world class destination 

  • Like 5
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had lunch with the partner of a development firm who has worked with Dick Pace and said he is in over his head with the lakefront development. He said there's no way that he can build it alone, adding buildings north of Browns stadium one at a time because no one wants to live or work at such a remote outpost. And Pace doesn't have the juice to do anything larger. Unless the Browns are involved, such as moving their practice facility and offices downtown as part of a $300 million to $400 million mixed-use project (hotel, more offices, residential, Titletown-type space) right off the bat, it isn't going to happen.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^Agree with the skepticism about that site, but regarding the first part, isn't that the whole point of Trammell Crow being part of the development team?  We don't know the exact terms of their arrangement, but in theory, Pace isn't really going it alone. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trammel Crow has added little more than its name so Dick Pace can do what he's done so far. It's not added anything substantive to build the kind of megadevelopment that's needed to build a mostly self-sustaining lakefront community, aside from game days and other lakefront events. It's not completely his fault since megadevelopments are very difficult to achieve in Cleveland.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here I go being negative again but nothing about this really surprises me.  Pace didn't have the cv to start with.  Of course the blame ultimately belongs to the city.

 

I guess we will know for sure in June when the extended option expires.  Then we can start from scratch again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think you're being negative (at least this time ūüôā¬†), just realistic. Unless the Browns come through with some kind of financing or project like a Green Bay-style "Titletown," the city is going to have to hit the reset button.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, KJP said:

I don't think you're being negative (at least this time ūüôā¬†), just realistic. Unless the Browns come through with some kind of financing or project like a Green Bay-style "Titletown," the city is going to have to hit the reset button.

That lakefront re-set button has to be worn out by now after 40 years of pushing.ūüôĄ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe we can cut our losses and just return the land north of the stadium to port uses. Use it to free up current port areas with better development potential, like the east bank of of the river mouth. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/13/2019 at 9:41 AM, RE Developer In Training said:

There's gonna be a ton of national TV coverage of the lakefront for the foreseeable future.  It sure would be nice to see some progress.

 

GO BROWNS!!!!

 

With any luck the "OBJ effect" will take hold and waves of investment akin to East 4th will wash over every square foot of lakefront property around the stadium¬†ūü§Ď

Edited by ASP1984
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/13/2019 at 1:05 PM, KJP said:

Had lunch with the partner of a development firm who has worked with Dick Pace and said he is in over his head with the lakefront development. He said there's no way that he can build it alone, adding buildings north of Browns stadium one at a time because no one wants to live or work at such a remote outpost. And Pace doesn't have the juice to do anything larger. Unless the Browns are involved, such as moving their practice facility and offices downtown as part of a $300 million to $400 million mixed-use project (hotel, more offices, residential, Titletown-type space) right off the bat, it isn't going to happen.

Is there any chance that a Titletown could happen? Is that something the Browns would be interested in? They SHOULD be

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, inlovewithCLE said:

Is there any chance that a Titletown could happen? Is that something the Browns would be interested in? They SHOULD be

 

I have no idea. That was just a brainstorm between myself and a developer over a tortilla appetizer.

  • Haha 1

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So i was bored and looking around and came across this poster...  I briefly looked for it on here and couldnt find anything...  This looks very ambitious. http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/lakefront/iactive/poster/waterfront_poster.pdf

 

found this all the way back at the beginning of this thread..  damn

 

Edited by G00pie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, G00pie said:

So i was bored and looking around and came across this poster...  I briefly looked for it on here and couldnt find anything...  This looks very ambitious. http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/lakefront/iactive/poster/waterfront_poster.pdf

 

found this all the way back at the beginning of this thread..  damn

 

 

That was the Mayor Jane Campbell-Planning Director Chris Ronayne lakefront plan. 


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

√ó
√ó
  • Create New...