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zaceman

Cleveland: Lakefront Development and News

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33 minutes ago, flee2thecleve14 said:

Lol a pedestrian bridge you have to drive to. And you can make a 10 min walk from the science center to Voinovich Park as is. How is this a priority over connecting downtown better with the lakefront or building a multi-modal transit hub at the existing Amtrak stop?

There does need to be a more cohesive, sensible walkway connecting the attractions within North Coast Harbor. There is just no pedestrian flow. Hopefully the bridge is a start to seeing an actual plan to address the suburban disjointedness. 

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Pics from Harbor Veranda's today on the lakefront. I was with Dick Pace, and he told me the next phase is starting in June. It will be the warehouses north of the stadium and they will be converted to retail, shops and restaurants. They will convert the ceilings to skylights to bring in the natural light. The plans look amazing. He said connecting the Rock Hall and the Science Center would come after that. Pics from Harbor Veranda's today on the lakefront. IMG_1290.thumb.jpeg.08ea1b45ec7f6956d7e1ba051a4c0323.jpegIMG_1289.thumb.jpeg.d7e1896bfb76ce04edc63316886a0dff.jpegIMG_1291.thumb.jpeg.e19ba5d4b5f15c1b2a6b037183c38e24.jpegIMG_1295.thumb.jpeg.01fc9905e2484f76b8ec06ed525d422d.jpegIMG_1294.thumb.jpeg.9c011c3f39e95902697b4124a6ba8e11.jpegIMG_1296.thumb.jpeg.38c4f4575c759a5477886cd8ca5ba7be.jpegIMG_1297.thumb.jpeg.a217944607d03e066d6d2726d00ed18c.jpegIMG_1299.thumb.jpeg.33bd8afe968b30b6f5a905cc17af5aa6.jpegIMG_1298.thumb.jpeg.c6a2a859c7dc74bd334b26442bcc9d9b.jpegIMG_1300.thumb.jpeg.8b31eda91469d8e58a8ffe5215fe1293.jpegIMG_1301.thumb.jpeg.4e8546ab1139421311a0ac0cccb28e1f.jpegIMG_1303.thumb.jpeg.ddec302c5004475ae75361fb0be16087.jpegIMG_1302.thumb.jpeg.0c11d1b0de190a3854ec6e08edaa0093.jpegIMG_1304.thumb.jpeg.272137c6678fb226a3e0ca92df436b88.jpegIMG_1306.thumb.jpeg.02dfc6d83a8c9a3a941e2e517ba293d0.jpeg

Edited by zbaris87
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He said that the original plan was to tear down the warehouses, but that's no longer the case. They will keep the existing structure up, however completely change the facade of the building. 

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That would be a massive wasted opportunity. If that's the best they can come up with, maybe it's time the city ends their relationship with Pace to find somebody able to do something big.

 

edit: Here is the overhead of the warehouses:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5082613,-81.7001439,373m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

 

Edited by Mendo
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So they couldn't pull in the rumored office tenant or two to fill a 100,000 sf building? And using existing, long abandoned structures? That tells me they couldn't pull in the financing to make new construction possible, or find subsidies to fill the financing gaps. I toured those vacant warehouses more than a decade ago and they were substantially built (heavy steel girder frames, thick concrete floors, etc) but very raw, rusty and drafty.

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He said the office will come soon. This is just the next phase. I saw the plans today and have them. I will upload them tomorrow sometime. 

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1 hour ago, zbaris87 said:

He said that the original plan was to tear down the warehouses, but that's no longer the case. They will keep the existing structure up, however completely change the facade of the building. 

Great. Anyone who has been to Ingenuity there can attest that those existing warehouses can work out. 

ing1.JPG

art1-2.jpg

ing3.JPG

Edited by surfohio
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9 hours ago, zbaris87 said:

 

" Next phase".... In Cleveland development that is code for nothing is going to happen anytime soon.

 

I agree with KJP.   What happen to the supposed tenant Pace has been courting so long that was suppose to kick start major construction.  Given how long Pace has had control of the lakefront, a single restaurant and a small apartment building to date is disappointing to say the least.  Of course he has to do something by June or he loses his option so I guess this is it.

 

I hate to be such a Debbie Downer but we have been promised substantial lakefront redevelopment for decades and it is starting to wear on me.   If something grand cannot be put together in this economy than I am not very optimist about the near future if things go south.  I mean we are due.

9 hours ago, zbaris87 said:

He said the office will come soon. This is just the next phase. I saw the plans today and have them. I will upload them tomorrow sometime. 

 

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I'll be posting them later this afternoon. Dick Pace has been living up to his end so far. It's Trammel and Co. out of Dallas that's done absolutely nothing for this project. 

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46 minutes ago, zbaris87 said:

I'll be posting them later this afternoon. Dick Pace has been living up to his end so far. It's Trammel and Co. out of Dallas that's done absolutely nothing for this project. 

This is what I was thinking. He has delivered on apartments, a restaurant and is about to redevelop an abandoned warehouse that no one else was going to touch for more housing. I know this sounds like "take what you can get" but it really is "appreciate what this man is/has done that no other developer has ever done for our lakefront." He even revitalized the long underperforming "colonial" arcades and filled them up, he is working his magic in areas that other people couldn't or wouldn't. Even though it isn't what some may want (some people seem to want a pipe dream of a lakefront on here) it is definitely quality what we are getting albeit a smaller scale.

Edited by MyPhoneDead
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I know people want a big new construction development, but there are tons of great new developments that center around some sort of redeveloped industrial building. These could easily be the centerpiece of the new development with new buildings ringing them. No reason we can't have both.

 

And if this gets us closer to new construction sooner instead of waiting for magical funding to fall from the sky, I think it's a smart move.

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Left them at the office. Will upload tomorrow. I also realized I need to get the updated pics of the warehouse from Dick next time I see him. 

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On 11/14/2018 at 11:20 PM, zbaris87 said:

Left them at the office. Will upload tomorrow. I also realized I need to get the updated pics of the warehouse from Dick next time I see him. 

How are we doing with those uploaded posts?

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Some more pics of Harbor Verandas on cleveland.com. I really wish this were taller. The design is good, it just feels pointless with just 16 units.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/expo/life-and-culture/erry-2018/12/cc18ff039b2649/tour-the-luxury-harbor-veranda.html

 

Here are a couple pics, see more at the link.

 

4ea_img0858.jpeg

 

dbc_img0854.jpeg

 

Edited by Mendo
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I note that 14 of the 16 apartments are leased and they expect all 16 to be rented by Feb 1.  The rents are between $3400 and $4500.  I recall a few months back a poster questioning the rents and suggesting they would have a hard time filling the place up.  I guess that was an incorrect assumption.

Edited by Htsguy

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According to this reporter Dice Pace is to break ground next June on 1500 units.

 

However, according to zbaris upthread Pace is to start conversion of warehouses in June.

Somehow, I believe zbaris.

 

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Guys, I checked the renderings. Nothing has changed from the ones I have. I will ask Dick tomorrow for the updated renderings of the warehouses. I'd be happy to upload them anyway 

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That's for the for almost-finished apartment building behind the Rock Hall. Could you post the renderings of the warehouse buildings you said would be renovated?

 

Below is a Google Earth view from July 17, 2017 showing the apartment building site behind the Rock Hall, shortly before construction began.

NCH-apartmentbuilding.jpg

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13 hours ago, Htsguy said:

I note that 14 of the 16 apartments are leased and they expect all 16 to be rented by Feb 1.  The rents are between $3400 and $4500.  I recall a few months back a poster questioning the rents and suggesting they would have a hard time filling the place up.  I guess that was an incorrect assumption.

I don't think this is an apples to apples comparison to other buildings seeking similar rents, definitely think the location and units themselves set them apart and helps with their lease up. There are plenty of units seeking similar rent/psf sitting empty. Not that I think those units will continue to sit empty, but it will take longer to lease up and prices may have to come down/incentives offered to entice renters (a good number of buildings have started to offer 2 months free on 14 month leases, among other incentives, but we are in a slow rental season).

 

Edited to add that I think you'll find that buildings that are leasing well are offering unique spaces, amenities, etc. (Worthington Yards, Harbor Verandas, W. 9th Lofts, to name a few).

Edited by andrew0816
Edited to add another point

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14 minutes ago, andrew0816 said:

I don't think this is an apples to apples comparison to other buildings seeking similar rents, definitely think the location and units themselves set them apart and helps with their lease up. There are plenty of units seeking similar rent/psf sitting empty. Not that I think those units will continue to sit empty, but it will take longer to lease up and prices may have to come down/incentives offered to entice renters (a good number of buildings have started to offer 2 months free on 14 month leases, among other incentives, but we are in a slow rental season).

 

Edited to add that I think you'll find that buildings that are leasing well are offering unique spaces, amenities, etc. (Worthington Yards, Harbor Verandas, W. 9th Lofts, to name a few).

 

Would have to agree with all your points.  With HV I think location is key and I recall pointing out to the poster at the time who asked who would pay those rents in Cleveland that there was a building full of Jones Day lawyers a five minute walk away with associate starting salaries over $150,000.  Also agree that the more unique the building the easier it is to lease, with Worthington Yards being a good example.

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