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Northeast Ohio: Regionalism News & Discussion

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50 minutes ago, KJP said:

Do we really think that Cleveland's leaders are any better or worse than Cuyahoga County's?

 

"We" being Urban Ohio members?  No. 


To the average suburbanite in Cuyahoga County, a resounding yes:  Cleveland is much worse.   There are many of these kinds of comments on Cleveland.com for a reason.....

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26 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

I’m with you on Cleveland council over Cuyahoga council. As far as the commuter tax, isn’t that what the local income tax is? Especially once you factor in the “credit” that most cities offer for income tax paid by its residence in other cities?

 

I like the Cleveland council model better, but there would need to be more cross council oversight to avoid Ken Johnson type situations. I think it would also be really important to have several at-large representatives in order to have some level of county-wide prioritization over the fiefdom model of Cleveland city council. 

 

I'd reduce the credit on those whose city of residence are outside the county. The rationale is there. They are incurring infrastructure costs in the county without sufficiently paying for them. I'd also increase the admissions tax on non-county residents as many non-Cuyahoga County residents partake of Cleveland sporting events, theaters, etc. I'm sure there's a way for computer systems to ID when people buy their tickets to add a non-county tax to it. As for taxation without representation, you can call or write to the Cuyahoga County Council. If you want to vote for or against them, you have the freedom to move to the county.

 

1 minute ago, Cleburger said:

 

"We" being Urban Ohio members?  No. 


To the average suburbanite in Cuyahoga County, a resounding yes:  Cleveland is much worse.   There are many of these kinds of comments on Cleveland.com for a reason.....

 

I'm not worried about cle-dot-bomb comments. They're scared idiots who are too afraid to put their real names to their babbling. How many of them actually live in Cuyahoga County? They could be trolls from another country for all we know. 

 

Edited by KJP

"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege." -- Tommy Douglas, Scottish-born Canadian Baptist minister and the seventh Premier of Saskatchewan

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12 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

I'm not worried about cle-dot-bomb comments. They're scared idiots who are too afraid to put their real names to their babbling. How many of them actually live in Cuyahoga County? They could be trolls from another country for all we know. 

 

 

I think you'd be surprised how many actually live in the City of Cleveland and surrounding suburbs...but I have no scientific way of proving this.   

 

What I do know through casual conversations with family and friends in the burbs, is a great many of them still think Cleveland is the city they knew in the 1970's.   It's scary in fact how many just don't go downtown because of what they experienced 40 years ago. 

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The local income tax “credit” is determined by the city of residence. An individual paying income tax in the city of Cleveland is paying that income tax to Cleveland regardless of where they live. The credit only affects what they pay to the city they live in. So it already does act as a “commuter tax”, at least to a certain extent. 

 

I’d agree with an event tax for non-county residents. Perhaps it could be in the form of a general admissions tax that is offset by a resident discount or credit. 

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^Put toll booths ar the county line!

 

Why doesn't regionalism start with baby steps? Let's start with the Cleveland and Cuyahoga County library systems merging. Have Metroparks take over city park services one suburb at a time. Do little things that can demonstrate how pooling resources makes things more efficient. 

 

Currently many see a regional based anything as bloated and corrupt. Ask Parma Joe Six Pack if he wants his neighborhood managed by a county wide authority just like the water and sewer (zero customer service/massive billing errors for many years), RTA, the jail system, or Metro.  There needs to be several good examples besides metroparks on how economies of scale saves money.

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^ I would include Metrohealth with Metroparks as being a well run regional entity.  CC public library is great too although they should take over all the libraries in the county as you stated.

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Metro has been doing much better by leaps and bounds, but I know people that consider metro the hospital where gangbangers get their gunshots treated. Five years ago it nearly evacuated during a polar vortex event because it was in such a state of obsolescence and disrepair. 

 



CLEVELAND, Ohio—During four days in early January, when the "polar vortex" drove temperatures in Northeast Ohio down to 10 below zero, MetroHealth Medical Center was nearly evacuated — twice — as the health system's aging infrastructure buckled under the extreme cold. Pipes froze and burst, patient rooms flooded, toilets blew their tops and the hospital's limping steam heat system nearly failed.

https://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/2014/05/metrohealth_unveils_campus_tra.html

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4 minutes ago, originaljbw said:

Metro has been doing much better by leaps and bounds, but I know people that consider metro the hospital where gangbangers get their gunshots treated. Five years ago it nearly evacuated during a polar vortex event because it was in such a state of obsolescence and disrepair. 

 

 

 

https://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/2014/05/metrohealth_unveils_campus_tra.html

 

 

And now it's all being replaced on top of all the new facilities they are building across the county... so there's that.  I've heard good things about their care as well. 

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On 5/26/2019 at 5:02 PM, KJP said:

institute a commuter income tax for all those commuting into Cleveland-Cuyahoga County from collar counties and use the money to update and modernize the county's infrastructure, clean/clear polluted vacated industrial properties, and expand transit between Cuyahoga and its collar counties.

 

At a company I worked for a while back (where many workers commuted from collar counties), I (half) joked with a coworker from Lakewood that we should put tollbooths at the county line and only charge tolls coming into the county at morning rush and leaving at afternoon rush, then use the revenues to subsidize businesses to stay within the county.

Edited by jam40jeff

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On 5/28/2019 at 8:20 PM, jam40jeff said:

 

At a company I worked for a while back (where many workers commuted from collar counties), I (half) joked with a coworker from Lakewood that we should put tollbooths at the county line and only charge tolls coming into the county at morning rush and leaving at afternoon rush, then use the revenues to subsidize businesses to stay within the county.

 

Lake and Summit Counties for sure would return the favor.

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1 hour ago, E Rocc said:

 

Lake and Summit Counties for sure would return the favor.

 

And may the county with the most residents and businesses win! 😛

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On 5/28/2019 at 2:38 PM, Mov2Ohio said:

 

 

And now it's all being replaced on top of all the new facilities they are building across the county... so there's that.  I've heard good things about their care as well. 

Oh I agree that they are doing much better, but for many who have never used a metro facility the old stereotype still stands. Same for people who havent been downtown since 1977, unfortunately these people still vote. 

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On 5/28/2019 at 8:20 PM, jam40jeff said:

 

At a company I worked for a while back (where many workers commuted from collar counties), I (half) joked with a coworker from Lakewood that we should put tollbooths at the county line and only charge tolls coming into the county at morning rush and leaving at afternoon rush, then use the revenues to subsidize businesses to stay within the county.

 

That's basically what the entire state of New Jersey does, except since it's a state full of bedroom communities for Philly and NYC, they charge you to leave!


“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

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Elsewhere, it's called a congestion tax. Since we don't have congestion, we'll have to call it what it is....a mooch tax.  It's for people trying to get the benefit of living next to a major city/county without having to actually pay for the amenities that said city/county offers.

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"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege." -- Tommy Douglas, Scottish-born Canadian Baptist minister and the seventh Premier of Saskatchewan

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The Emerald Necklace could be used as an urban growth boundary.   Maintaining water/sewer/roads inside the necklace (the vast majority of Cuyahoga County) should take precedence; further development outside the necklace should be discouraged.  And because most of the county is inside that boundary, that could be politically feasible.

 

Thoughts?

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3 hours ago, Foraker said:

The Emerald Necklace could be used as an urban growth boundary.   Maintaining water/sewer/roads inside the necklace (the vast majority of Cuyahoga County) should take precedence; further development outside the necklace should be discouraged.  And because most of the county is inside that boundary, that could be politically feasible.

 

Thoughts?

Bad idea.  Really, you want all of NE Ohio to get their water from L. Eire.  This way all the dams can be removed on the Cuyahoga and L. Rockwell returned to its natural configuration.

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Or we could embrace this idea offered by the father of the Interstate highway system who never intended to have highways penetrate the cities. But the automakers, oil companies, tire companies, road builders, etc. knew that they needed to mow down the cities' densities if they wanted to sell their wares to the largest untapped automotive market....

 

 

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"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege." -- Tommy Douglas, Scottish-born Canadian Baptist minister and the seventh Premier of Saskatchewan

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Or to be a convention mecca or other dumb reasons for regionalization. To be sure, there are very good reasons for regionalization, but they aren't dealt with here.

 


"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege." -- Tommy Douglas, Scottish-born Canadian Baptist minister and the seventh Premier of Saskatchewan

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5 minutes ago, KJP said:

Or to be a convention mecca or other dumb reasons for regionalization. To be sure, there are very good reasons for regionalization, but they aren't dealt with here.

 

I thought the same thing this morning. The premise is solid. The article execution was laughable. 

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A counterview....

 


"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege." -- Tommy Douglas, Scottish-born Canadian Baptist minister and the seventh Premier of Saskatchewan

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