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Actually, the lower part of E. Cleve. could be a very good investment, and has more potential than the part up the hill.  Look at what happened in Little Italy once the new rail station opened. The pent up demand for housing next to UC is enormous.  That is exactly what would happen along Euclid if it was just being run by anybody other than E. Cleveland. The only thing that is holding it back is that it is not under the control of a stable-functioning city hall.

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There is pent up demand for housing near UC, but if Cleveland takes EC over that only puts it on an equal footing with Glenville, Hough, and Fairfax.  They're starting to see a little bit of spin-off from UC and CC, but only on the fringes.  I wouldn't expect EC to suddenly burst forth with development.

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Although it is more likely that there will be industrial redevelopment of the Noble Road area.


"Save the planet. Move to the city." -- The Downtowner podcast

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Looks like consolidation thoughts are beginning to heat up again...

 

Cleveland and St. Louis, two Rust Belt cities with a lot in common: Cleveland 2030: A Way Forward

By Peter Krouse, cleveland.com | Posted May 06, 2019 at 05:45 AM

 

Over the next year and a half, some big thinkers in Greater Cleveland will be paying close attention to the possible merger of the City of St. Louis and neighboring St. Louis County into a single metro government.

 

The merger, if approved by a statewide vote in November 2020, also would convert 88 smaller cities and towns within the county into “municipal districts,” and combine 55 municipal police departments into a single force.

 

Why is this of interest to people here? Because Greater Cleveland and the St.Louis region face similar problems - a fragmented political landscape, a stagnant economy, population loss, racial inequality - and some people here and there believe consolidation is the solution.

 

More at:  https://expo.cleveland.com/news/g66l-2019/05/2bc54825cf42/cleveland-and-st-louis-two-rust-belt-cities-with-a-lot-in-common-cleveland-2030-a-way-forward.html

 

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21 hours ago, freefourur said:

I've met and dealt with Polensek many times. Before I met I didn't think I liked him but my opinion of him has changed. He's a straight shooter that doesn't try to BS you.  I like that about him.

 

His comments about Jackson wanting to build a dirt bike track instead of fix the pools in his district (on the Trivvisonno show) made that clear, he only held back in a manner that I suspect ClearChannel/iHeart/whoever they are this week approved of for FCC related reasons.   That segment made up for a lot of particularly weak ones that I tuned out once I heard the traffic report.

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2 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

His comments about Jackson wanting to build a dirt bike track instead of fix the pools in his district (on the Trivvisonno show) made that clear, he only held back in a manner that I suspect ClearChannel/iHeart/whoever they are this week approved of for FCC related reasons.   That segment made up for a lot of particularly weak ones that I tuned out once I heard the traffic report.

 

I've met Polensek many times and he is a straight shooter, he cares about the City and has a vision.

 

I disagree on the dirt bike/pool matter though.  Apples & oranges.  I used to bid on the upkeep required for the pools and it was tremendous.  I think the dirt bike track is an idea that has real merit, it's just been presented so poorly, everyone dismisses it.  A swimming pool will never make money.  A dirt bike track absolutely could.  It's not like the City doesn't have plenty of vacant land either....

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14 hours ago, X said:

There is pent up demand for housing near UC, but if Cleveland takes EC over that only puts it on an equal footing with Glenville, Hough, and Fairfax.  They're starting to see a little bit of spin-off from UC and CC, but only on the fringes.  I wouldn't expect EC to suddenly burst forth with development.

The difference is that there is a lot of rehabilitatable housing within easy walking distance of Euclid Ave. in E. Cleveland as well as the 120th street rapid station. 

 

The area just needs to be stabilized for investments to be safe.

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On 5/6/2019 at 2:54 PM, Terdolph said:

The difference is that there is a lot of rehabilitatable housing within easy walking distance of Euclid Ave. in E. Cleveland as well as the 120th street rapid station. 

 

The area just needs to be stabilized for investments to be safe.

Which will take years and millions upon millions upon millions of dollars

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On 5/6/2019 at 2:54 PM, Terdolph said:

The difference is that there is a lot of rehabilitatable housing within easy walking distance of Euclid Ave. in E. Cleveland as well as the 120th street rapid station. 

 

The area just needs to be stabilized for investments to be safe.

 

Which Rapid station is that, again??


"Save the planet. Move to the city." -- The Downtowner podcast

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10 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Which Rapid station is that, again??

The one where the red line intersects Euclid.  It could be re-activated.

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6 hours ago, inlovewithCLE said:

Which will take years and millions upon millions upon millions of dollars

The State already offered Cleveland 10 million, and that was just the opening offer.  I could see the State, foundations and even fundraising generating maybe 50 million especially if the burden was split between Cleve.  and Cleve. Hts.

 

Moreover, I think that the investment would probably pay off in possibly less than ten years.

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5 minutes ago, Terdolph said:

The one where the red line intersects Euclid.  It could be re-activated.

 

No way that happens...the platform would be 0.2 miles from the one at Little Italy.

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15 hours ago, jam40jeff said:

 

No way that happens...the platform would be 0.2 miles from the one at Little Italy.

The station is already there-it just needs to be reactivated.

 

Or am I confused?

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23 hours ago, inlovewithCLE said:

Which will take years and millions upon millions upon millions of dollars

 

And a certain degree of political spine.

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1 hour ago, Terdolph said:

The station is already there-it just needs to be reactivated.

 

Or am I confused?

 

The Little Italy/University Circle station was intended to replace the Euclid-E.120th, not supplement it.   It's less than a quarter mile away.   The old station probably doesn't meet ADA requirements, and stopping the train twice in such a short span would be extremely inefficient.

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On 5/6/2019 at 2:24 PM, gottaplan said:

 

I've met Polensek many times and he is a straight shooter, he cares about the City and has a vision.

 

I disagree on the dirt bike/pool matter though.  Apples & oranges.  I used to bid on the upkeep required for the pools and it was tremendous.  I think the dirt bike track is an idea that has real merit, it's just been presented so poorly, everyone dismisses it.  A swimming pool will never make money.  A dirt bike track absolutely could.  It's not like the City doesn't have plenty of vacant land either....

 

Reality is the dirt bike track would have become a city-sponsored trouble magnet very quickly.  Pretty much any city or inner ring police officer will have the same view on this.  

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^ I don’t know, to me the dirt track could be an asset. I mean, skate parks can be trouble magnets too but we have one in the Flats and it’s awesome. 

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12 hours ago, surfohio said:

^ I don’t know, to me the dirt track could be an asset. I mean, skate parks can be trouble magnets too but we have one in the Flats and it’s awesome. 

 

Different magnitude of trouble.  Urban skateboarding doesn't have its roots in the drug trade, and gangs aren't involved.  Plus it's not that tough to get one's board there legally.

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The Greater Cleveland Partnership is in the beginning stages of looking at government consolidation.

 

This is becoming a big deal.  If the business community is beginning to push for consolidation with the County, this could have a chance of coming to a vote by the people.

 

 

Edited by Oldmanladyluck

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On 5/4/2019 at 10:29 AM, inlovewithCLE said:

I’m a Cleveland resident who has long supported East Cleveland becoming part of Cleveland. My position changes completely if Cleveland Heights were to get the “nice” parts. It would be blasphemous for Cleveland to agree to a merger like that. All of East Cleveland or none of it

 

Just to be clear, the Forest Hill neighborhood extends into a relatively small part of East Cleveland.  In my opinion, the real investment value (growth opportunity) in East Cleveland is along Euclid Avenue (particularly near UC, but not exclusively) and Nela Park -- neither of which is part of Forest Hill.  I'm not advocating for CH taking over all of Forest Hill, I'm just pointing out that if that were to happen it wouldn't significantly change the value of East Cleveland. 

 

I would also add that while the Forest Hill neighborhood is more stable than some portions of EC, it has its own problems that the neighborhood association there has been trying to address -- and at one point some were advocating for seceding from CH because they felt they weren't getting enough support. 

 

Point being, don't mistake the Forest Hill neighborhood for East Cleveland's pot o' gold.  

 

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4 hours ago, Foraker said:

 

Just to be clear, the Forest Hill neighborhood extends into a relatively small part of East Cleveland.  In my opinion, the real investment value (growth opportunity) in East Cleveland is along Euclid Avenue (particularly near UC, but not exclusively) and Nela Park -- neither of which is part of Forest Hill.  I'm not advocating for CH taking over all of Forest Hill, I'm just pointing out that if that were to happen it wouldn't significantly change the value of East Cleveland. 

 

I would also add that while the Forest Hill neighborhood is more stable than some portions of EC, it has its own problems that the neighborhood association there has been trying to address -- and at one point some were advocating for seceding from CH because they felt they weren't getting enough support. 

 

Point being, don't mistake the Forest Hill neighborhood for East Cleveland's pot o' gold.  

 

It’s not about it being East Cleveland’s pot o’ gold. It’s about how ludicrous it would be to go to the voters of the city of Cleveland and ask them to take in East Cleveland without its most stable neighborhood. That’s insane, and no one would support that. It would go down in flames and set back the regionalism movement. In addition to that, your argument that it’s not a “pot o’ gold” still doesn’t justify why Cleveland shouldn’t insist on it in any merger talks. You don’t just give away a neighborhood like that. That’s dumb. We all agree where the best potential returns on investment are in a merger, but if it was that easy to make it happen then glenville and Hough and Fairfax (neighborhoods with the same amount of proximity to UC and already in the city) would be thriving now. It ain’t that easy. And it definitely wouldn’t with East Cleveland added, a place that doesn’t even have the basic level of service and quality that the neighborhoods I mentioned have! So before you can capitalize on any potential that East Cleveland has, you have to get it to the bare minimum of where the rest of Cleveland neighborhoods are. EC isn’t even at that. Which, again, is why it’s ludicrous to cede it’s most stable neighborhood in a merger. Forest Hill isn’t a pot o’ gold, but EC along Euclid Avenue isn’t either because of what it would take to even get it up to basic standards of the rest of the city of cleveland 

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9 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

The Greater Cleveland Partnership is in the beginning stages of looking at government consolidation.

 

This is becoming a big deal.  If the business community is beginning to push for consolidation with the County, this could have a chance of coming to a vote by the people.

 

 

 

Very interesting. 

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5 hours ago, inlovewithCLE said:

It’s not about it being East Cleveland’s pot o’ gold. It’s about how ludicrous it would be to go to the voters of the city of Cleveland and ask them to take in East Cleveland without its most stable neighborhood. That’s insane, and no one would support that. It would go down in flames and set back the regionalism movement. In addition to that, your argument that it’s not a “pot o’ gold” still doesn’t justify why Cleveland shouldn’t insist on it in any merger talks. You don’t just give away a neighborhood like that. That’s dumb. We all agree where the best potential returns on investment are in a merger, but if it was that easy to make it happen then glenville and Hough and Fairfax (neighborhoods with the same amount of proximity to UC and already in the city) would be thriving now. It ain’t that easy. And it definitely wouldn’t with East Cleveland added, a place that doesn’t even have the basic level of service and quality that the neighborhoods I mentioned have! So before you can capitalize on any potential that East Cleveland has, you have to get it to the bare minimum of where the rest of Cleveland neighborhoods are. EC isn’t even at that. Which, again, is why it’s ludicrous to cede it’s most stable neighborhood in a merger. Forest Hill isn’t a pot o’ gold, but EC along Euclid Avenue isn’t either because of what it would take to even get it up to basic standards of the rest of the city of cleveland 

 

You keep calling other people's opinions dumb or ludicrous, but it seems like you're the one not getting the basic mathematical argument some of us are making.  Who cares if the neighborhood is East Cleveland's most stable if it is still a money loser?(answer: Cleveland Hts probably cares more about it's stability then revenue projections)  Cleveland could well end up less in the hole if it annexes EC without Forest Hills. 

 

Maybe not, maybe Forest Hills generates more revenue than it takes to provide it services, but that's a rare residential area.

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9 hours ago, X said:

 

You keep calling other people's opinions dumb or ludicrous, but it seems like you're the one not getting the basic mathematical argument some of us are making.  Who cares if the neighborhood is East Cleveland's most stable if it is still a money loser?(answer: Cleveland Hts probably cares more about it's stability then revenue projections)  Cleveland could well end up less in the hole if it annexes EC without Forest Hills. 

 

Maybe not, maybe Forest Hills generates more revenue than it takes to provide it services, but that's a rare residential area.

Take that to the Cleveland voters then and see how well you can sell it. 🤷🏿‍♂️ If you think you can sell that to voters who are already suspicious about taking on a burdened East Cleveland anyway and you’re gonna convince them to do it while giving Forest Hills away to Cleveland Heights, let me know how well that turns out. That’s been my point from the beginning. It’s ludicrous in part because it will never ever ever ever pass muster with Cleveland voters. But if you want to find out for yourself, have at it

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26 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

Take that to the Cleveland voters then and see how well you can sell it. 🤷🏿‍♂️ If you think you can sell that to voters who are already suspicious about taking on a burdened East Cleveland anyway and you’re gonna convince them to do it while giving Forest Hills away to Cleveland Heights, let me know how well that turns out. That’s been my point from the beginning. It’s ludicrous in part because it will never ever ever ever pass muster with Cleveland voters. But if you want to find out for yourself, have at it

 

This discussion is moot because of the way mergers work in Ohio.  It's going to be really really hard to merge EC with anyone in the first place, and pretty much impossible to carve out any one neighborhood.  We really do need the state to get involved to solve the EC problem, but until the city and county demand it nothing will change.

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2 hours ago, Foraker said:

 

This discussion is moot because of the way mergers work in Ohio.  It's going to be really really hard to merge EC with anyone in the first place, and pretty much impossible to carve out any one neighborhood.  We really do need the state to get involved to solve the EC problem, but until the city and county demand it nothing will change.

 

There's just no way anyone's going to take one part and not the other.   

 

The problem with a state solution is they would (rightly) demand some changes and oversight that residents would oppose.   The bulk of East Cleveland's problems are largely self inflicted, or at least self exacerbated.   Look at who they vote for, it seems to be a choice between corrupt, crazy, grossly incompetent, or all of the above.

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