Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Guest richNcincy

Cincinnati Reds Discussion

Recommended Posts

9-0. Love it!

 

Arroyo was amazing. Hitting was on point. Everything clicked. Keep it up!

 

I was in San Francisco on vacation during this game.  The Wife and I had dinner that lasted until the game was over, and as we were at a pretty nice restaurant there was no watching the game (I'm not much of a baseball fan to begin with).  As we were walking back to the hotel we saw a lot of Giants fans doing a very familiar walk ... the post Cleveland Browns game walk.  But it wasn't just that we knew they had lost we knew that the Giants had just took a shellacking.  Some walks are the same anywhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike Leake is starting Game 4 tonight.  He is also replacing Johnny Cueto on the roster.  Meaning that Cueto will be unavailable for the NLCS series, but would be available for the World Series.  This move makes you think that Cueto's oblique strain would have forced him to sit out the NLCS anyway.  Oblique strains require rest - Cozart missed 12 games in September with his OS.

 

ESPN: Mike Leake to start Game 4

 

Rough break to lose Cueto after the team went the entire regular season without losing a starting pitcher! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If SF can swing back from a 9-0 defeat, the Redlegs can swing back. But this is not going as I thought it would after performing so well without the homefield advantage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone know of a way to listen to 700 WLW without a radio in Cincinnati for the Reds games? MLB blacks out the station for streaming online... I'm at work and would much rather listen to WLW than the idiots on ESPN. Any solutions short of buying a radio?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tough loss. The better team lost today. If we had our ace the series would have been over. Why so many people blaming Dusty? The players are the ones that didn't come through. I only question the hit and run with no out down 3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It'll be quick work for the Midwest at the hands (bats?) of the Bay Area if Detroit goes down tonight. 

 

Good point, but at least we are not the south....no teams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry from your friends up in Cleveland.  After games 1 and 2, i thought the reds were the best team left and had the ring.  ALthough, at least you got to enjoy some playoff baseball.  Things are a little stale up here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The better team lost today.

+1

 

I really thought this could be the year. The Reds are a better team than all the contenders but the Nats.

 

Can't help but feel if Votto were on top of his game, things would have gone differently. Also if Cueto didn't suffer his freak injury.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tough loss. The better team lost today. If we had our ace the series would have been over. Why so many people blaming Dusty? The players are the ones that didn't come through. I only question the hit and run with no out down 3.

 

Because Dusty should be embarrassed by the way he managed this series.  Yes, the players didn't come through.  But if that argument holds water than let's just get rid of managers.  It's a managers job to put the players in the best position to succeed.  I've never been a huge Dusty fan as he has me scratching my head nearly every game but I figured he was doing something right by getting the Reds to the playoffs two out of three years.  However, this series showed me all I need to know.....

 

Pulling Bailey in game 3 when he was on a roll and hadn't pitched a lot of pitches...Not pitching Chapman the following inning in game 3 to face Posey...Not walking Arias to get to the pitcher and let him get the last out or forcing Boche to pull his best reliever in place of a PH...Letting Leake give up 5 runs before being pulled...Letting Arrendondo get shelled in game 4 even though it was obvious he didn't have his stuff...Not pitch hitting for Stubbs or having players bunt to get a run in in the 6th and 7th inning of todays game...But the far worst was letting Latos pitch to Posey.  Absolutely no reason to let him pitch to Posey in that situation.....Those are off the top of my head in only one series.  He managed the series like it was just a typical series in the regular season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry the Reds lost today and the series from me, a Tigers fan... yeah that 6-run 5th inning killed them. Made it interesting, but too little, too late. I always would cheer for Midwest teams vs. California teams. Hopefully, my Tigers don't suffer the same fate.

 

First time ever a team has won an NLDS series after trailing 2-0. Even more bizarre.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Today was the worst day in Reds history. 

 

And of course here we go with the Dusty bashing.  Fact is the Reds were out their best starting pitcher and their best hitter in Votto, who has been mediocre since coming off the DL.  Somehow Dusty was brilliant in game 1, then he somehow is incompetent 3 days later. 

 

My company is full of know-it-alls and local sports haters.  One guy was going around making a duck bill with his hand and snapping "choke!" in everybody's faces.  Another guy was predicting "we'd all be wearing SF jerseys Friday", since supposedly Reds fans are all "bandwagon". 

 

I absolutely hate these guys who pick some team from a city they've never even been to to follow, then come around when the hometown team is doing well and intentionally try and piss everyone off.  To a man they are former schoolyard bullies.  Ask them why the hell they follow a team from a city they've never even visited and they come right back calling you a fag.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of the blame has to go with Dusty although I agree that the the lack of clutch hitting was likely the biggest factor in the game. Hope the meltdown for Latos isn't going to have lasting consequences and I partially blame Dusty for not having a shorter hook when it was clear that Latos was not going to survive the inning. Votto looks like he is afaid to swing too hard and I'm concerned that he will turn into Cincinnati's version of Travis Haftner only on a much longer contract.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A photo of yours truly holding an artifact from happier days in Reds history, the Louisville Slugger bat used by Johnny Bench during the days of the Big Red Machine. Bench was a regular patient of my dad's, and his bat was hand-crafted by the company founded by my great-great-grandfather in Louisville, Kentucky.

 

60810_468367305475_4284451_n.jpg

 

My home state of Kentucky specializes in two of my favorite things: baseball bats and bourbon. I'm looking forward to being back in my natural habitat in time for Opening Day next season, and to be totally honest, I'd rather be in Cincinnati for Opening Day than in Los Angeles, of all places, for a Reds World Series victory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tough loss. The better team lost today. If we had our ace the series would have been over. Why so many people blaming Dusty? The players are the ones that didn't come through. I only question the hit and run with no out down 3.

 

Because Dusty should be embarrassed by the way he managed this series.  Yes, the players didn't come through.  But if that argument holds water than let's just get rid of managers.  It's a managers job to put the players in the best position to succeed.  I've never been a huge Dusty fan as he has me scratching my head nearly every game but I figured he was doing something right by getting the Reds to the playoffs two out of three years.  However, this series showed me all I need to know.....

 

Pulling Bailey in game 3 when he was on a roll and hadn't pitched a lot of pitches...Not pitching Chapman the following inning in game 3 to face Posey...Not walking Arias to get to the pitcher and let him get the last out or forcing Boche to pull his best reliever in place of a PH...Letting Leake give up 5 runs before being pulled...Letting Arrendondo get shelled in game 4 even though it was obvious he didn't have his stuff...Not pitch hitting for Stubbs or having players bunt to get a run in in the 6th and 7th inning of todays game...But the far worst was letting Latos pitch to Posey.  Absolutely no reason to let him pitch to Posey in that situation.....Those are off the top of my head in only one series.  He managed the series like it was just a typical series in the regular season.

 

If I'm Dusty Baker, I seriously consider leaving Cincinnati.  The fans have never embraced me in the least, and the front office outside of ownership does not support me the way they should considering what I've done in 5 years with three of those being awful teams.

 

  The job he did during this regular season was incredible.  Players respond to him.  It wasn't cholesterol, it was managing in Cincinnati, a feeble media market where the reporters ask no questions, leave the stadium and say nasty things about you on twitter and on blogs.  The fans are different.  Cincinnati is one of the most vicious fan markets around, a la Chicago or Boston.  We are constantly firing managers 5 seconds into their career in the 'Nati, get rid of this guy, that guy, etc.  As Jmecklenborg said, Dusty was a genius after Game 1.  His decision to run out Arroyo for Game 2 was lambasted when he made it, and how did that end up looking? 

 

Pinch hit with what?  The Reds haven't had a bench since 2010.  The GM deserves blame for this spotty offense that has been hanging around like a smoker's cough since summer 2010.  Dusty managed around it during the regular season, but when the pressure is on and you're facing great pitching, great hitters get hits and good hitters look average.  That's exactly what the Reds looked like in those three home games, a lineup of average hitters with Ludwick, Phillips and Votto.  If only three of your hitters are clutch, then you're giving away outs all over the board with guys like Ryan Hanigan, the guy everybody blasted Dusty for not playing the other day, took a called third strike with men running!  You can't have that in professional baseball.  Hanigan knew men were running.  Don't blame Dusty for a good managerial decision.  He had a contact hitter with a high OBP at the plate.  Why not hit and run?

 

The offense went silent in 2010 when the Phils embarrassed the Reds.  It wasn't a sweep complete with a no-hitter, but it was even more shamefully historic, giving the media the ammo to drag you through the mud the rest of the postseason and all offseason.  I can't even fathom how many times I'll have to hear, "The 2012 Reds were the first team to lose a NLDS after leading 2-0".

 

This offense needed Carlos Beltran in the offseason, not Ryan Madson.  They could have gotten Beltran, named Chapman closer, and they would be in the NLCS right now.  St. Louis would have missed the playoffs with a lesser replacement for Pujols.  Votto needs help, and with him not being fully healthy, that exposed pretenders like Jay Bruce for the millionth time.  He was up at the plate twice in the final 3 innings and didn't get on base once.  I don't care about 11 pitch ABs, if you're gonna ridicule fans for booing a poor product that they paid to see, you had better produce when it's time.  He didn't and they need to be looking at ways to improve that lineup because Jay Bruce surely isn't gonna carry anybody's team.  They need an elite hitter, not a good one, to take this team to the next level.  Hopefully GM Walt Jocketty realized that his team went to its grave with one of its top three pitchers tossing relief innings down three runs.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just really worried that Votto is never going to be back 100%.  Being saddled with that contract and a mediocre player is going to be Ken Griffey Jr all over again.  In fact they still might be paying Griffey, I remember he had deferred payments. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was a total team collapse.  You can point to any number of things that cost us the series.  Off the top of my head I can think of:

 

-Brandon Phillips inexcusable base running error in game three.  Had he not made that awful decision to go to third, the Reds would have scored at least two runs in the first, and swept the series.

 

-Hannigan's passed ball in the 10th of game 3 which allowed the run to score after...

 

-Scott Rolen's error on a routine grounder to third (game 3)

 

-Dusty not pulling Latos before pitching to Posey. Anyone watching that game could see that Latos was starting to fade at the end of the 4th.  After giving up 2 runs already, there was no one even warming up in the bullpen! Then he proceeds to load the bases up...is obviously struggling mightily, and yet Baker keeps him out there to face the possible NL MVP! 

 

-Keeping Arredondo in after giving up more than 3 runs.

 

Then of course there were things that really just effected us the whole series.  The Giants almost ALWAYS had someone in the bullpen, and Boche was ready to make moves at the first sign of struggle.  Meanwhile, Dusty was content to wait until the damage was done to even get a guy up in the pen.  What reason could there possibly be for not even having a guy ready?  Deciding when to pull a guy is a judgement call, but not even having someone ready in case you need to make that decision is inexcusable in my opinion.  The other thing that was really noticeable was the lack of effort and heart that the players showed at home.  Ludwick popped up to first in the middle of yesterdays game, and didn't even WALK in the direction of the base! He turned around and headed back to the dugout while the ball was still in the air! Votto slowed down running to first when he thought he was going to get thrown out, and only barely made it to the base after the Giant player bobbled the ball.  There was no heart, no sense of urgency, no leadership in the three games here. I was never a Dusty hater, and generally think that he has gotten a lot of unwarranted scrutiny around here.  After being at games 4 and 5 though, I say he absolutely MUST go.  The resurrection of the franchise has much more to do with the front office than the manager.  Losing this series the way we lost is embarrassing and an insult to the fans...changes must be made.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rolen's "error" was a borderline error in my judgement.  It was by no means on par with Bill Buckner in Game 6 of the 1986 series, which I remember watching live.  But it had the same effect.  That said I've long been mystified by the presence of Rolen. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes the base running was bad by Phillips. But there is no way of knowing they would have scored more runs, because the pitcher could have thrown different pitches with him on base. The Rolen error though directly caused the loss. Arredondo  just sucks. He pitched bad the entire 2nd half. Ludwick  would have been out even if he ran. He had the best bat in the series. Only question the double steal with no outs. That was bad call down by so many runs. A bunt should have been called.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good points - these are some of the very things I was going to post.  Aside from this, overall it seemed like Baker was managing like this was the regular season or at least managing to game 5 instead of going for the kill.  Add a 3 for 24 effort (I mean Votto had a lot of hits yet no RBI)  with runners in scoring position  the last 3 games, and the Reds completed a historic collapse.  I think Jacoby shares some of the blame for this.

 

Personally, I like Baker and he obviously has done a great job in the regular season, however, I am not sure he can take this team further or win a World Series.  This year was a fairly good opportunity, and I really thought they were going to make it  and help Baker reach his ultimate goal.  I guess I am undecided and part of me wants him to stay as he has won 2 divisional titles in 3 years, but part of me can't get past this:

 

- the Reds had the best home record in baseball

- the Reds had not lost 3 in a row at home all year

- the Reds had not been swept at home by the Giants since 1999

- no NL team had lost a divisional series after being up 2-0

- no playoff team had lost 3 straight at home after being up 2-0

- Baker was 1-6 in the post season in series deciding games before this year (and now 1-7)

- the Reds scored more runs, had more hits, had a better team ERA and still lost the series

- the Reds somehow lost 3 games at home against all odds

 

 

In my mind game 3 was the killer as the Reds and a base running blunder in the first inning really spoiled what should have been a 1 hit victory by Bailey. 

 

This was a total team collapse.  You can point to any number of things that cost us the series.  Off the top of my head I can think of:

 

-Brandon Phillips inexcusable base running error in game three.  Had he not made that awful decision to go to third, the Reds would have scored at least two runs in the first, and swept the series.

 

-Hannigan's passed ball in the 10th of game 3 which allowed the run to score after...

 

-Scott Rolen's error on a routine grounder to third (game 3)

 

-Dusty not pulling Latos before pitching to Posey. Anyone watching that game could see that Latos was starting to fade at the end of the 4th.  After giving up 2 runs already, there was no one even warming up in the bullpen! Then he proceeds to load the bases up...is obviously struggling mightily, and yet Baker keeps him out there to face the possible NL MVP! 

 

-Keeping Arredondo in after giving up more than 3 runs.

 

Then of course there were things that really just effected us the whole series.  The Giants almost ALWAYS had someone in the bullpen, and Boche was ready to make moves at the first sign of struggle.  Meanwhile, Dusty was content to wait until the damage was done to even get a guy up in the pen.  What reason could there possibly be for not even having a guy ready?  Deciding when to pull a guy is a judgement call, but not even having someone ready in case you need to make that decision is inexcusable in my opinion.  The other thing that was really noticeable was the lack of effort and heart that the players showed at home.  Ludwick popped up to first in the middle of yesterdays game, and didn't even WALK in the direction of the base! He turned around and headed back to the dugout while the ball was still in the air! Votto slowed down running to first when he thought he was going to get thrown out, and only barely made it to the base after the Giant player bobbled the ball.  There was no heart, no sense of urgency, no leadership in the three games here. I was never a Dusty hater, and generally think that he has gotten a lot of unwarranted scrutiny around here.  After being at games 4 and 5 though, I say he absolutely MUST go.  The resurrection of the franchise has much more to do with the front office than the manager.  Losing this series the way we lost is embarrassing and an insult to the fans...changes must be made.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^Of course he would have been out even if he ran.  That's not the point.  He showed absolutely no effort and no heart in a situation where the whole city was on the verge of a heartbreak.  What if there had been a gust of wind or the first baseman dropped the ball? The Reds let this city down, and I think it's gonna be really hard to get excited for next season.  I'll believe they can do more than the NLDS when I see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just bad luck in Cincinnati sports. Carson Palmer goes down. Kenyon Martin goes down. Tim Krumrie goes down and now Cueto goes down. The town is cursed. They need to fire Tim Kremchek, MD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Tim "Where's the camera" Kremchek has not evaluated pitchers well for some time, see Edinson Volquez and Aaron Harang. 

 

I see why one would wonder if Votto is coming down with Griffey Syndrome given the snakebitten sports history of Cincinnati, I just think this 2012 edition was more unlucky than previously accepted.  The unanimous MVP goes down with a knee and his timetable is continuously being pushed back.  That's a bad sign on any team.  This one has trouble scoring without him.  That equals disaster vs. top pitching.  What we seen after Votto went down was a mirage created by the deep rotation the team has.  Its offense, outside of Ludwick, is the same as the one that got no-hit by Cole Hamels.  Why should we have expected different vs. the Giants?

 

Cueto is the Reds' hammer, not the guy who was terrible in most of the first half, Mat Latos.  2013 with Chapman in therotation sounds promising.  The Reds with that kind of pitching go from being an inferior version of the Giants to a superior one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With Dusty returning and the team largely unchanged, I see disappointment looming again for 2013. I was hoping they would have tried to make a run for Bourn or Span, but Chapman possibly coming to the rotation and Votto being 100 percent will help out a lot. I don't see Stubbs having some magical break out year that would solve the lead off problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Reds even outdo the Bengals in roster complacency.  They love to sell fans on the idea that their players being a year older is a massive upgrade in talent.  2011 failed because it was the same roster as 2010.  Last year flamed out because 2012's offense was nearly identical to 2011's, which was at least 15 games under .500 in games where the Reds scored four runs or less.  They won two in San Francisco, then reverted back to the 2010 NLDS edition that got swept by Philadelphia.

 

There's still time to make moves.  We shall see what Walt does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...