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And church attendance is down. Go figure....

 

The Rise of the Catholic Right

How right-wing billionaires are attempting a hostile takeover of the U.S. Catholic Church.

https://sojo.net/magazine/march-2019/rise-catholic-right


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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Oldie but a goodie. I doubt there will be any discussion following this 😉

 

Study finds that children raised without religion show more empathy and kindness

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danthropology/2015/11/study-finds-that-children-raised-without-religion-show-more-empathy-and-kindness/


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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Not sure what to make of this one yet, but The Lyceum is suing the city of South Euclid in a preemptive challenge to a recently-passed nondiscrimination ordinance:

 

https://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/2019/04/catholic-schools-lawsuit-says-south-euclid-anti-discrimination-law-violates-religious-rights.html

 

The Lyceum has been noted sporadically on UO, in part because of the exceptional number of National Merit Scholars they produce for a school their size (53 students grades 6-12):

 

 

I checked their Web site and they claim that 25% of their student body over the school's history has received National Merit honors, which I feel like needs an asterisk somewhere even granting that the school is private and uses standardized tests for admission, so they can cherry-pick.  Given the school's Catholic foundations (they are "independent" of the diocese but since that 2010 thread where me and StapHanger f.k.a. StrapHanger were talking about the school, you can just call it a Catholic school ... it's "independent" apparently because it doesn't think the Catholic diocese of Cleveland is Catholic enough), they're still limited in their student body selection to those whose parents are looking for that kind of cultural environment for their children.

 

Now they're in a bit of a kerfuffle with the city, but I really wonder where this is going.  The ordinance apparently passed more than a year ago.  The city hasn't sought to enforce it against the school in that entire time, even though a religious exemption was in the original draft and was expressly deleted at the urging of Equality Ohio and other LGBT-advocacy groups.  I get that the school wants clarity and the silence of the city in response to requests for clarification would be frustrating.  But notwithstanding that, I think the school might necessarily have trouble forcing the issue when there's uncertainty regarding applicability and when the city itself has not actively sought to punish the school for acting consistently with its beliefs in the year since the ordinance passed.

 

The fight has gotten some attention even in national niche orthodox Catholic press (https://www.crisismagazine.com/2019/a-catholic-school-stands-its-ground).

 

The complaint is here: http://www.adfmedia.org/files/TheLyceumComplaint.pdf

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I would think the city ordinance would fail given its failure to carve out the federal protections for a religious institution. It is probably the reason why the city never sought to enforce it against them anyway.

 

I would be curious if the court would take the case at this point as a matter of ripeness, since there is no aggrieved party to date.

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Can someone explain to me why religious people deserve exemptions in laws against discriminatory actions?  Religion isn’t an immutable characteristic, it’s a choice.  Why should religious people have the right to discriminate in legal matters like access, housing, employment, etc. based on their self-imposed beliefs? Someone explain the logic behind this.  

Edited by jonoh81

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^First Amendment right to association and Free Exercise of their beliefs.   Everyone has a right to exercise their beliefs in the manner they choose whether it be discriminatory or not. People have a right to associate with whomever they want and exclude who they want for social purposes and religious purposes. The state cannot compel people to violate the tenets of their beliefs.

 

It is not just religion, they could be a social club too and still be allowed to have discriminatory practices.

 

In this case, the law is pretty clear, the city's ordinance would be in violation of the schools rights. As mentioned, I feel the city knows this and has not chosen to enforce it against the school and have it out there more to hold for profit businesses accountable, in which case it is enforceable in relation to them.   I do feel the school may have a ripeness or mootness issue since they are the ones filing suit instead of the city.

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1 hour ago, jonoh81 said:

Can someone explain to me why religious people deserve exemptions in laws against discriminatory actions?  Religion isn’t an immutable characteristic, it’s a choice.  Why should religious people have the right to discriminate in legal matters like access, housing, employment, etc. based on their self-imposed beliefs? Someone explain the logic behind this.   

 

In the nature vs. nurture dichotomy, religious beliefs are firmly in the nurture category. But I don't think they're all a choice. The more specific, situational, or complex the belief, though, the more choice-y the "belief" gets. Like employment decisions are firmly in the choice-y category.

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40 minutes ago, Robuu said:

 

In the nature vs. nurture dichotomy, religious beliefs are firmly in the nurture category. But I don't think they're all a choice. The more specific, situational, or complex the belief, though, the more choice-y the "belief" gets. Like employment decisions are firmly in the choice-y category.

 

But what if employment decisions flow from something more fundamental, more paradigmatic?

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The biggest thing with employment is that there are many of the left that want to use government to take the human element out of the entire hiring process. It seems as if there is a group that feels that employees should be hired based on a score they receive based on job criteria and the employee receiving the highest score gets the job. Unfortunately, there is so much more than that and the majority of hiring is based on personality fit within the organization. So much of the hiring process can't be quantified.

 

Therefore, it is very reasonable that a Catholic school should be able to make hiring decisions based on their particular beliefs, or a country club or fraternal organization can hire or admit people who fit their beliefs or gender or race, etc.

 

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33 minutes ago, Gramarye said:

 

But what if employment decisions flow from something more fundamental, more paradigmatic?

 

Well, for one: it's inconsistent to use that justification when you're trying to maintain a distinction between homosexual feelings and a homosexual lifestyle.

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https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/05/us/west-virginia-bishop-bransfield-church-funds/index.html

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/a-wva-bishop-spent-millions-on-himself-and-sent-cash-gifts-to-cardinals-and-to-young-priests-he-was-accused-of-mistreating-confidential-vatican-report-says/2019/06/05/98af7ae6-7686-11e9-b3f5-5673edf2d127_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6da16063eed4

 

Quote

During his 13 years as bishop in West Virginia, one of the poorest states in the nation, Bransfield spent $2.4 million in church money on travel, much of it personal, which included flying in chartered jets and staying in luxury hotels, according to the report. Bransfield and several subordinates spent an average of nearly $1,000 a month on alcohol, it says. The West Virginia diocese paid $4.6 million to renovate Bransfield’s church residence after a fire damaged a single bathroom. When Bransfield was in the chancery, an administrative building, fresh flowers were delivered daily, at a cost of about $100 a day — almost $182,000 in all. 

 


Very Stable Genius

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Rhode Island Bishop Warns Catholics To Avoid Pride Events Because Of ‘Harm To Children’

Furious critics on Twitter can’t stand the hypocrisy.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5cf30259e4b0e346ce7f3e36?guccounter=1


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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^Ah yes, a church that has spent decades (if not centuries) hiding child abuse should certainly be celebrating a "win" in which priests don't have to report known child abusers to authorities so long as the abusers admit their sins in Confession.

 

What a great win for freedom of religion.  Too bad about the children, though.

Edited by DarkandStormy

Very Stable Genius

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Commence opening of can of worms...

 

 


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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Can’t wait for a crafty student to turn in a paper on Islamic law (shariah) showing how punishments that range from public lashing to publicly stoning to death, amputation of hands and crucifixion are mandated by God.

 

Thankfully, the ACLU will slam-dunk this fanciful flight back to the 1600s...

 

Ohio lawmakers clear bill critics say could expand religion in public schools

https://www.cleveland.com/open/2019/11/ohio-lawmakers-clear-bill-allowing-students-to-turn-in-inaccurate-work-in-name-of-religion-second-anti-science-bill-in-a-week.html


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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20 hours ago, GCrites80s said:

Another reason why manipulative speech shouldn't be protected. 

 

20 hours ago, eastvillagedon said:

 

so I guess all political speech should now be forbidden. That's actually not such a bad thing.

 

There's a big difference between denying protective status to "manipulative speech" and forbidding it.

 

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Millennials Are Leaving Religion And Not Coming Back

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/millennials-are-leaving-religion-and-not-coming-back/

 

Millennials (those between the ages of 23 and 38) are now almost as likely to say they have no religion as they are to identify as Christian. For a long time, though, it wasn’t clear whether this youthful defection from religion would be temporary or permanent. It seemed possible that as millennials grew older, at least some would return to a more traditional religious life. But there’s mounting evidence that today’s younger generations may be leaving religion for good.

 

For one thing, many millennials never had strong ties to religion to begin with, which means they were less likely to develop habits or associations that make it easier to return to a religious community. Young adults are also increasingly likely to have a spouse who is nonreligious, which may help reinforce their secular worldview. Changing views about the relationship between morality and religion also appear to have convinced many young parents that religious institutions are simply irrelevant or unnecessary for their children.

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Yes, it is....

 

 

Edited by KJP

"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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An in-depth look at the intersection of Christianity, tech culture, and the midwest, particularly focusing on Crossroads Chruch and Cincinnati's weird status as a Christian tech hub:

 

 


“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

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^ Absolutely disgusting and quite deliberately snuck in under the air-cover of all the current COVID noise. 


And they reckon that the last thing she saw in her life was
Sting, singing on the roof of the Barbican

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He's only a danger if enough people take him seriously....

 


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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27 minutes ago, KJP said:

He's only a danger if enough people take him seriously....

 

 

It's important to note that warrants were issued by the Liberty Campus PD. 

 

I don't think the NYT will be facing off against Paul Blart Mall Cop any time soon. 

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2 hours ago, freefourur said:

is Fallwell the guy ALLEGEDLY who let the pool boy service his wife?

 

 

Just added a lawyer's touch for you, in case you don't want Liberty campus PD chasing you down on segways

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This could go in either the GOP or Religion thread.  Dropping it here, in the hopes that someday these churches will pay taxes since they own our government.  

 

 

 

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