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11 minutes ago, Mov2Ohio said:

 

 

The population of the Cleveland MSA, which was constituted slightly different back in 2000 was higher then to, as well as in 2008. Maybe the job growth will allow us to see some population gains here in the next estimates or upcoming census.

 

How were the MSA boundaries different in 2000 vs today?

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25 minutes ago, Mov2Ohio said:

 

 

The population of the Cleveland MSA, which was constituted slightly different back in 2000 was higher then to, as well as in 2008. Maybe the job growth will allow us to see some population gains here in the next estimates or upcoming census.

 

Dunno about the MSA, but the CSA count will definitely grow since the Feds added Wayne County to the total last year.


There's nothing wrong with optimism, as long as you don't get your hopes up.

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16 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

How were the MSA boundaries different in 2000 vs today?

I think Ashtabula County was part of the MSA in 2000 but was removed later.

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2 hours ago, freefourur said:

I think Ashtabula County was part of the MSA in 2000 but was removed later.

Exactly.

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2 hours ago, Dougal said:

 

Dunno about the MSA, but the CSA count will definitely grow since the Feds added Wayne County to the total last year.

Oh, wow, I did not know they did that. So it's at like 3.6 million now huh?

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2 hours ago, Mov2Ohio said:

Oh, wow, I did not know they did that. So it's at like 3.6 million now huh?

 

Wayne's estimnated 2018 population was 118,000; so 3.6 million for the CSA would be close.

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On 7/25/2019 at 3:45 PM, Dougal said:

 

Wayne's estimnated 2018 population was 118,000; so 3.6 million for the CSA would be close.

 

 

so minus ashtabula, but adding wayne --- would this csa be greater than the old pmsa/cmsa definitions from the 1980s-90s (Cleveland PMSA included Cuyahoga, Medina, Lake and Geauga counties, and the CMSA, which added Summit, Portage and Lorain counties)?

 

edit -- also, separate question, since i am thinking about this -- but to get akron msa combined with cle msa you need a 25% commuter travel interchange? is that correct? i think i heard it could be less??? thx!

 
 

Edited by mrnyc

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1 hour ago, mrnyc said:

 

 

so minus ashtabula, but adding wayne --- would this csa be greater than the old pmsa/cmsa definitions from the 1980s-90s (Cleveland PMSA included Cuyahoga, Medina, Lake and Geauga counties, and the CMSA, which added Summit, Portage and Lorain counties)?

 

edit -- also, separate question, since i am thinking about this -- but to get akron msa combined with cle msa you need a 25% commuter travel interchange? is that correct? i think i heard it could be less??? thx!

 
 

 

Ashtabula County was not removed from the CSA.  It was removed from the Cleveland-Elyria MSA a while ago (and became its own µSA), but it is still in the Cleveland-Akron-Canton CSA.

 

See page 122:

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Bulletin-18-04.pdf

Edited by jam40jeff

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1 hour ago, mrnyc said:

 

 

so minus ashtabula, but adding wayne --- would this csa be greater than the old pmsa/cmsa definitions from the 1980s-90s (Cleveland PMSA included Cuyahoga, Medina, Lake and Geauga counties, and the CMSA, which added Summit, Portage and Lorain counties)?

 

edit -- also, separate question, since i am thinking about this -- but to get akron msa combined with cle msa you need a 25% commuter travel interchange? is that correct? i think i heard it could be less??? thx!

 
 

Dunno about the old definitions; I have trouble enough with the current set. 

 

On the Akron MSA question, the Federal Record says: "OMB accepted theReview Committee’s recommendation to qualify a county as an outlying countyif (a) at least 25 percent of the employedresidents of the county work in theCBSA’s central county or counties, or (b)at least 25 percent of the jobs in the potential outlying county are accountedfor by workers who reside in the CBSA’s central county or counties. OMB alsoaccepted the Review Committee’srecommendation not to use measures of settlement structure, such as population density, to qualify outlying counties for inclusion in CBSAs." This year 2000 rule change raised the commuter standard from the 15% definition of the 1990.

 

The OMB also said, "OMB also accepted the ReviewCommittee’s recommendations thatcombinations of CBSAs, based on anemployment interchange measure of atleast 15 but less than 25, should occuronly if local opinion (see Section C.10below) in both areas is in favor and thatcombinations should occurautomatically if the employmentinterchange measure between twoCBSAs equals or exceeds 25."

 

Source: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2000-12-27/pdf/00-32997.pdf

 

Bottom line: if Akron and Cleveland civic parties wanted to be merged within the Cleveland MSA, it could happen. I'm pretty sure the 15% standard could easily be demonstrated.

 

Edit: the OMB revision of 2010 to these rules didn't change anythng to do with MSA mergers; OMB danced around and basically said, "Who cares? That's why I invented CSA's."

Edited by Dougal
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I'm always leery of Cleveland tech companies led by bosses in more tech-savvy cities: 

 

"Convelo Therapeutics, a Cleveland biotech company, has entered into a strategic partnership with San Francisco-based company Genentech to develop new therapeutic drugs to repair damaged myelin insulation on nerve cells for patients suffering from neurological disorders such as multiple sclerosis, according to a news release.....Located within Cleveland's BioEnterprise incubator space, Convelo is led by a management team based in Boston and San Francisco..."

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/health-care/cwru-spinout-convelo-partners-san-francisco-company-develop-medicines-neurological

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Random question...with federal reserve lowering interest rates does this mean it would be more feasible for developers to pursue more development projects?

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1 hour ago, troeros said:

Random question...with federal reserve lowering interest rates does this mean it would be more feasible for developers to pursue more development projects?

 

Of course. It's lowering the cost of capital.


"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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Report: There's a tech talent 'surge' in Cleveland

Commercial real estate firm CBRE releases report

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/report-theres-a-tech-talent-surge-in-cleveland

 

 

Looking for a job? Don't overlook Cleveland, MarketWatch says

https://www.crainscleveland.com/scott-suttell-blog/looking-job-dont-overlook-cleveland-marketwatch-says


"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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Another software company that sold to a Bay-area investor ...

 

Majority stake in Richfield software firm OEConnection is sold to a San Francisco private equity firm

https://www.crainscleveland.com/technology/majority-stake-richfield-software-firm-oeconnection-sold-san-francisco-private-equity


"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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2 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Wow, always thought Great Lakes would be the one to get swallowed up by AB.  I hope they allow the Platform owners some autonomy to continue doing their thing.  Quite an impressive rise for Platform in only a few years... 

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1 minute ago, ML11 said:

Wow, always thought Great Lakes would be the one to get swallowed up by AB.  I hope they allow the Platform owners some autonomy to continue doing their thing.  Quite an impressive rise for Platform in only a few years... 

In the article it states that the Platform owners will be running the day to day. Seems like a win-win as of now. 

Edited by KFM44107
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17 minutes ago, freefourur said:

Platform's pace of growth always seemed strange and aggressive to me.  Perhaps this was their plan all along.  Congrats to them. 

I've always felt like they were shooting from the hip. The variety of beer they package and distribute is insane. And while I've had some really good beers from them, I've also had a couple of the very worst beers I've ever had from them.

 

I won't buy AB unless really in a pinch, so I doubt I will be buying much Platform anymore. I wonder if they'll still get the same collaborators wanting to work with them (e.g. Streetside in Cincy has collaborated with them a number of times).

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1 hour ago, ML11 said:

Wow, always thought Great Lakes would be the one to get swallowed up by AB.  I hope they allow the Platform owners some autonomy to continue doing their thing.  Quite an impressive rise for Platform in only a few years... 

I'm suspect that GL has rejected AB's offers more than once.

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Innovest Global, a small Cleveland-area startup, has gone from $1 million sales in the first half of 2018 to $17 million for the the first half of 2019. They have said they are "cash positive" but have NOT said they are profitable. This quarter, they will be going to NYC and Toronto looking for investors to support further growth. Predictably they will pay a big percentage of ownership for the money. 

 

This is how Cleveland loses companies; there just isn't much capital available locally.

 

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190812005302/en

 

 

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I've seen reports over the last few years of more capital-oriented firms opening offices here, but they seem to be geared toward capitalizing multi-family projects. If more start-ups occur here, wouldn't there logically be more capital funds opening offices here too?


"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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Cleveland does have capital but most people/organizations with capital tend to be risk averse or geared toward legacy industries that they understand. 

 

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1 hour ago, freefourur said:

Cleveland does have capital but most people/organizations with capital tend to be risk averse or geared toward legacy industries that they understand. 

 

 

Then they need to retire. 🙂


"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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Moving the NIH to Cleveland. I wholly support this idea---imagine what that would do for us.  Please do what you can to further this idea--write to our Senators and Reps and Secretary of HHS, whoever has such power/influence--and if NIH is to move out of DC that it comes to CLE--ideally University Circle or Midtown not somewhere else that would also fight for it....

 

"....Cult Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang is all for it. From his campaign website: "Federal agencies that aren't directly tied to general government activities (e.g., the NIH) should be relocated to different areas throughout the country to provide a boost to local economies and tie the rest of the country to the federal government." Vox.com's Matthew Yglesias made the same argument in a much-discussed 2016 opinion piece that clearly inspired Yang, given that both recommend that the first agency to move should be the National Institutes of Health, to Cleveland...."

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/government/trump-wants-move-agencies-out-washington-dc

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16 minutes ago, Pugu said:

Moving the NIH to Cleveland. I wholly support this idea---imagine what that would do for us.  Please do what you can to further this idea--write to our Senators and Reps and Secretary of HHS, whoever has such power/influence--and if NIH is to move out of DC that it comes to CLE--ideally University Circle or Midtown not somewhere else that would also fight for it....

 

"....Cult Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang is all for it. From his campaign website: "Federal agencies that aren't directly tied to general government activities (e.g., the NIH) should be relocated to different areas throughout the country to provide a boost to local economies and tie the rest of the country to the federal government." Vox.com's Matthew Yglesias made the same argument in a much-discussed 2016 opinion piece that clearly inspired Yang, given that both recommend that the first agency to move should be the National Institutes of Health, to Cleveland...."

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/government/trump-wants-move-agencies-out-washington-dc

 

I actually think this is a great idea from the Trump Administration 

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^I do as well. I have long thought the same should be done at the state level. Instead of Toledo, Akron, Cinci, Cleveland, etc. subsidizing the growth and economy of Columbus, state agencies should be spread around as well.  Its a long list:

 

OHIO GOV:

Department of Administrative Services

Department of Aging

Department of Agriculture

Office of Budget and Management

Department of Commerce

Development Services Agency

Department of Developmental Disabilities

Department of Education

Environmental Protection Agency

Department of Health

Department of Insurance

Department of Job and Family Services

Department of Medicaid

Department of Mental Health and Addiction Services

Department of Natural Resources

Department of Public Safety

Department of Rehabilitation and Correction

Department of Taxation

Department of Transportation

Department of Veterans Services

Department of Youth Services

Edited by Pugu
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32 minutes ago, Pugu said:

^I do as well. I have long thought the same should be done at the state level. Instead of Toledo, Akron, Cinci, Cleveland, etc. subsidizing the growth and economy of Columbus, state agencies should be spread around as well.  Its a long list:

 

OHIO GOV:

Department of Administrative Services

Department of Aging

Department of Agriculture

Office of Budget and Management

Department of Commerce

Development Services Agency

Department of Developmental Disabilities

Department of Education

Environmental Protection Agency

Department of Health

Department of Insurance

Department of Job and Family Services

Department of Medicaid

Department of Mental Health and Addiction Services

Department of Natural Resources

Department of Public Safety

Department of Rehabilitation and Correction

Department of Taxation

Department of Transportation

Department of Veterans Services

Department of Youth Services

 

Only counterpoint I'd have to this is that these are in Columbus, for some Depts, because of the geographic accessibility to residents. 

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^if there are some agencies that actually make people drive two-hours to visit in person, then the "counter/window operations" could remain in Columbus, but all the back office/admin/management functions could be anywhere. Or, if that is really a concern, then open more local offices, like the BMV has.  But I'd say of the state personnel based in Columbus, probably 99% of them don't face the public ever.  Agencies that do need local office, already have local offices in other cities, like those in the State office bldg on W. 6 St.

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Presented without comment...

 

 

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"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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Retirements of Baby Boomers, especially in healthcare, are also fueling local demand for more housing....

 

Job Growth Fuels Apartment Demand in Cleveland Market

 

https://rebusinessonline.com/job-growth-fuels-apartment-demand-in-cleveland-market/


"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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On 7/31/2019 at 3:09 PM, Pugu said:

I'm always leery of Cleveland tech companies led by bosses in more tech-savvy cities: 

 

"Convelo Therapeutics, a Cleveland biotech company, has entered into a strategic partnership with San Francisco-based company Genentech to develop new therapeutic drugs to repair damaged myelin insulation on nerve cells for patients suffering from neurological disorders such as multiple sclerosis, according to a news release.....Located within Cleveland's BioEnterprise incubator space, Convelo is led by a management team based in Boston and San Francisco..."

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/health-care/cwru-spinout-convelo-partners-san-francisco-company-develop-medicines-neurological

 

Probably less of a concern with biotech, with CC and UH here.

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On 8/12/2019 at 4:49 PM, Pugu said:

Moving the NIH to Cleveland. I wholly support this idea---imagine what that would do for us.  Please do what you can to further this idea--write to our Senators and Reps and Secretary of HHS, whoever has such power/influence--and if NIH is to move out of DC that it comes to CLE--ideally University Circle or Midtown not somewhere else that would also fight for it....

 

"....Cult Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang is all for it. From his campaign website: "Federal agencies that aren't directly tied to general government activities (e.g., the NIH) should be relocated to different areas throughout the country to provide a boost to local economies and tie the rest of the country to the federal government." Vox.com's Matthew Yglesias made the same argument in a much-discussed 2016 opinion piece that clearly inspired Yang, given that both recommend that the first agency to move should be the National Institutes of Health, to Cleveland...."

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/government/trump-wants-move-agencies-out-washington-dc

 

Lou Stokes could have made it happen.   Steve LaTourette, maybe.  

 

We don't have representation like that anymore.

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11 minutes ago, KJP said:

Retirements of Baby Boomers, especially in healthcare, are also fueling local demand for more housing....

 

Job Growth Fuels Apartment Demand in Cleveland Market

 

https://rebusinessonline.com/job-growth-fuels-apartment-demand-in-cleveland-market/

 

I have only anecdotal evidence, but in my parents generation, it seemed retiring people moved lock, stock, and barrel to the Sunbelt. In my generation it seems retiring people are buying a winter home somewhere southern and keeping something (condo or lake cottage) northern because the summer is so hellish in FL, AZ, NV, TX.  Their definition of winter, however, is stretching into 183 days for tax reasons. This may account for some of the strength in Cleveland RE markets.


There's nothing wrong with optimism, as long as you don't get your hopes up.

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4 minutes ago, Dougal said:

Their definition of winter, however, is stretching into 183 days for tax reasons.

 

What do you mean by this?

 

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6 minutes ago, Dougal said:

 

I have only anecdotal evidence, but in my parents generation, it seemed retiring people moved lock, stock, and barrel to the Sunbelt. In my generation it seems retiring people are buying a winter home somewhere southern and keeping something (condo or lake cottage) northern because the summer is so hellish in FL, AZ, NV, TX.  Their definition of winter, however, is stretching into 183 days for tax reasons. This may account for some of the strength in Cleveland RE markets.

 

Very anecdotal. I think when you mix in the strong employment numbers, low COL and high QOL, it adds up to what we're seeing now - real growth.

Edited by Clefan98

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