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Cleveland: Midtown: Development and News

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5 hours ago, KJP said:

A couple of interesting demolitions pending. They're interesting to me because the properties were bought earlier this year by development-related nonprofits -- the East 55th property was bought by the Port Authority and the Prospect property was bought by Lassi/MidTown CDC. However both demolitions were requested by MidTown CDC.....

 

5000 PROSPECT AVE DEMOLITION

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Project Information

Euclid Corridor Case #  EC 2019-043

Address:5000 Prospect

Company:MidTown Cleveland Inc.

 

 

1979 E 55TH STREET DEMOLITION

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Project Information

Euclid Corridor Case #  EC 2019-042

Address:1979 E 55th Street

Company:MidTown Cleveland Inc.

East 55th needs a streetscape and be shrunken. 

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Could be the start of a new Terdolph Park to replace the Cle Foundation land, but that would be a very long, narrow, and vehicular friendly park.

 

I noticed there’s a Hemingway sign in front of the Offices at the Agora—maybe they have something in mind and are working with the CDC to make it happen?

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23 minutes ago, Clevecane said:

I noticed there’s a Hemingway sign in front of the Offices at the Agora—maybe they have something in mind and are working with the CDC to make it happen?

 

Hemingway renovated The Agora building about five years ago. 

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6 hours ago, Clevecane said:

I meant something else. I was being optimistic. 🙂

 

It could be. There's a ton of plans emerging for that part of Midtown. Mind-blowing, actually. 

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1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

It could be. There's a ton of plans emerging for that part of Midtown. Mind-blowing, actually. 

The company I work for is looking into relocating to midtown. Spill the beans! Lol

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Note the two demolitions I posted earlier. Individually, they are small. Collectively, including some recent news, it is part of a bigger vision.

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42 minutes ago, KJP said:

Note the two demolitions I posted earlier. Individually, they are small. Collectively, including some recent news, it is part of a bigger vision.

 

How tall is that "bigger vision?" 🙂

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Not height, but area.

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I think that area used to be predominantly residential (single/double family homes and apartments/townhouses/rowhouses) on the non-major streets and retail/light industrial on the avenues. 

Mid-rise seems appropriate.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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activity around 77th & Carnegie/Euclid... pending sale on industrial looking space on Carnegie and mansion on Euclid...  some facade work on store front building...  I've been in the mansion before, add on in the back has space for activities...  if I'm remembering correctly...

 

 

 

IMG_20190920_162235.jpg

IMG_20190920_162053.jpg

IMG_20190920_161955.jpg

Edited by lockdog
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On 9/19/2019 at 10:09 AM, WindyBuckeye said:

Midtown is a good fit for several mid rise buildings in between UC and downtown.

 

More than several ;)

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I know there is considerable dialogue about mid-town development, but except for Euclid Ave., the northern end near the Shoreway or the southern end near Opportunity Corridor ( E. 55th), are there any concerns about access?

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36 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

I know there is considerable dialogue about mid-town development, but except for Euclid Ave., the northern end near the Shoreway or the southern end near Opportunity Corridor ( E. 55th), are there any concerns about access?

Midtown borders are not near the the Shoreway or the Southern border is Cedar.  Every Major East-West avenue from Payne to Cedar goes through the area.  There is plenty of access unless you're talking about more then vehicular access.

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4 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

Midtown borders are not near the the Shoreway or the Southern border is Cedar.  Every Major East-West avenue from Payne to Cedar goes through the area.  There is plenty of access unless you're talking about more then vehicular access.

What about suburban commuters?

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13 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

What about suburban commuters?

What about them?  There are plenty of points of entry, via the aforementioned Avenues and public transportation.

Edited by MyTwoSense
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7 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

What about them.  There are plenty of points of entry, via the aforementioned Avenues and public transportation.

Somehow, commuting from Ashtabula, Moreland Hills, Parma or Avon Lake to mid-town seems a bit of a challenge vs a downtown commute, unless they use the access points I mentioned in my original post.

While it may be the desire, most of the population does not live in downtown Cleveland. These people have to get to/from work. They will not be taking Payne, Cedar or Carnegie unless they live in the Heights.

Edited by Frmr CLEder

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2 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Somehow, commuting from Ashtabula, Moreland Hills, Parma or Avon Lake to mid-town seems a bit of a challenge vs a downtown commute, unless they use the access points I mentioned in my original post.

Challenging?  Exactly how? 

 

As this is an urban site, they could make their commutes less "challenging" by relocating closer to their places of employment.  😉

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If they live and work in mid-town, or even downtown, it's a non issue. Today's reality however is that 75% of the area's population resides outside of the city limits. 

How does that reality impact the kind of mid-town development?

Edited by Frmr CLEder

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14 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Somehow, commuting from Ashtabula, Moreland Hills, Parma or Avon Lake to mid-town seems a bit of a challenge vs a downtown commute, unless they use the access points I mentioned in my original post.

While it may be the desire, most of the population does not live in downtown Cleveland. These people have to get to/from work. They will not be taking Payne, Cedar or Carnegie unless they live in the Heights.

East 55th at I-90, the new opportunity Corridor at I490 and 55th as well as the portions of Carnegie, Chester and Superior between the Innerbelt and East 55th provide sufficient far suburban access points via the freeway network and surface roads.

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6 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

If they live and work in mid-town, or even downtown, it's a non issue. Today's reality however is that 75% of the area's population resides outside of the city limits. 

How does that reality impact the kind of mid-town development?

 

I don’t understand the premise of this question. What does suburban access have to do with midtown development? Development in midtown is not done at the behest of voters in Auburn Township. Just as development on Auburn Township is not done at the behest of people In Midtown. Am I missing something?

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The question is:

 

Since 75% of the area's population resides outside of the city, how does that impact the type of development in midtown or does it?

 

Strictly residential

Mixed-use

Corporate/Industrial

Edited by Frmr CLEder

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11 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

C'mon folks. The original post says:

"except for Euclid Ave., the northern end near the Shoreway or the southern end near Opportunity Corridor ( E. 55th),"

So then all the avenues with exits on the innerbelt add additional access as I stated. 

Midtown is about as equally distant from all the far burbs in each direction, with good road access with RTA having several routes that cut across the area east and west, as well as a line that goes north and south up 55th and on east 59th.

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12 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

The question is:

 

Since 75% of the area's population resides outside of the city, how does that impact the type of development in midtown or does it?

 

Strictly residential

Mixed-use

Corporate/Industrial

I think it can accommodate all of the above. If someone in Avon gets a job at a place in midtown, guess where they'll be driving to work every day? If someone works at the clinic and buys a townhouse there, they'll be laying their head every night in midtown as well.

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7 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

The question is:

 

Since 75% of the area's population resides outside of the city, how does that impact the type of development in midtown or does it?

 

Strictly residential

Mixed-use

Corporate/Industrial

 

Got it. IMHO and ignorant opinion, I think (or hope?) having 75% of the pop outside the city makes Midtown an incredible opportunity for mixed-use. It lies between the two biggest employment centers, but doesn’t have the price points associated with them. I would imagine this would lead Midtown to be a residential draw for folks who want to be closer to work, but not in as dense neighborhoods as downtown or UC. Similar to a residential neighborhood north of Browns stadium drawing “urbanish” people. 

 

Ideally that spurns some residential. And I think the mix of legacy industrial keeps industry here, as well. So very mixed. At the same time, it’s only 2ish miles from several different highway entrances, so it’s not off the beaten path—especially when compared with the Heights. I’d imagine most of the people in the communities you mentioned (Ashtabula, Moreland Hills, etc., leave further from highways/retail in their suburb-fiefdoms than they would in Midtown. 

 

I’d want a form based code overlay here way more than Detroit Shoreway. 

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3 minutes ago, Clevecane said:

 

Got it. IMHO and ignorant opinion, I think (or hope?) having 75% of the pop outside the city makes Midtown an incredible opportunity for mixed-use. It lies between the two biggest employment centers, but doesn’t have the price points associated with them. I would imagine this would lead Midtown to be a residential draw for folks who want to be closer to work, but not in as dense neighborhoods as downtown or UC. Similar to a residential neighborhood north of Browns stadium drawing “urbanish” people. 

 

Ideally that spurns some residential. And I think the mix of legacy industrial keeps industry here, as well. So very mixed. At the same time, it’s only 2ish miles from several different highway entrances, so it’s not off the beaten path—especially when compared with the Heights. I’d imagine most of the people in the communities you mentioned (Ashtabula, Moreland Hills, etc., leave further from highways/retail in their suburb-fiefdoms than they would in Midtown. 

 

I’d want a form based code overlay here way more than Detroit Shoreway. 

Thank you.

 

Historically the key employment centers have been downtown, the industrial flats and University Circle. Infrastructure has been built to support that.

 

With redevelopment come shifts in habitation and employment, so where people live, where they work and how they get between the two are critical to those development plans.

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Midtown currently is, and for a long time has been, a major employment center.

 

5 hours ago, KJP said:

 

More than several 😉

 

Just to be clear, is this a hint about a new project or projects, or did you glean some new info about one we already know about on here?

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30 minutes ago, X said:

 

Just to be clear, is this a hint about a new project or projects, or did you glean some new info about one we already know about on here?

 

Some of it has been discussed here, but only piecemeal. I didn't realize at the time that some of those pieces, including things I've previously blogged and posted here about, were part of a much larger vision for Midtown. I'm still learning about it, and when I have a better grasp of it, I'll write about it.

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An interesting analysis by the Cleveland Fed that supports the questions/issues that I have raised:

 

https://www.clevelandfed.org/newsroom-and-events/publications/a-look-behind-the-numbers/albtn-20151123-a-long-ride-to-work-job-access-and-public-transportation-in-northeast-ohio.aspx

 

I would encourage a review. Become enlightened. It outlines the need for a comprehensive approach to development and redevelopment, involving a variety of stakeholders, some of whom have limited access to the very jobs they seek .

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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41 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Some of it has been discussed here, but only piecemeal. I didn't realize at the time that some of those pieces, including things I've previously blogged and posted here about, were part of a much larger vision for Midtown. I'm still learning about it, and when I have a better grasp of it, I'll write about it.

As long as that plan involves the eventual recreation of a Penn Station at Euclid and East 55 serving a proper commuter rail system I’ll be happy. 

 

I was thinking about how nice it would have been to be able to take the train home the other night when I paid $20 to park at the Agora. Ugh. 

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1 hour ago, Mov2Ohio said:

I think it can accommodate all of the above. If someone in Avon gets a job at a place in midtown, guess where they'll be driving to work every day? If someone works at the clinic and buys a townhouse there, they'll be laying their head every night in midtown as well.

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5 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

An interesting analysis by the Cleveland Fed that supports the questions/issues that I have raised:

 

https://www.clevelandfed.org/newsroom-and-events/publications/a-look-behind-the-numbers/albtn-20151123-a-long-ride-to-work-job-access-and-public-transportation-in-northeast-ohio.aspx

 

I would encourage a review. Become enlightened. It outlines the need for a comprehensive approach to development and redevelopment, involving a variety of stakeholders, some of whom have limited access to the very jobs they seek .

 

I'm not sure what you're point is supposed to be.  Midtown is one of the best served areas of Cleveland by public transit.  So if job access for people without cars is important to you, then Midtown is a prime place to put jobs.  But earlier you seemed to have been saying that we shouldn't put jobs there because the highway access is poor (I don't agree that it is any poorer than a number of other places, btw)

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33 minutes ago, X said:

 

I'm not sure what you're point is supposed to be.  Midtown is one of the best served areas of Cleveland by public transit.  So if job access for people without cars is important to you, then Midtown is a prime place to put jobs.  But earlier you seemed to have been saying that we shouldn't put jobs there because the highway access is poor (I don't agree that it is any poorer than a number of other places, btw)

 

Right. The Brookings Institution published a few years back that something like 70% of Clevelanders work in the suburbs, while something like 70% of suburbanites work in Cleveland. The suburbanites have no trouble getting downtown, to University Circle, or to Midtown—because we live in a hub-and-spoke city where all roads lead to Rome (i.e., downtown). They’re also white collar workers who can walk in anytime between 8-11am and no one bats an eye. 

 

On the other hand—the Clevelanders have to take 3 buses and a train to a job out in Woodmere/Solon, where they’ll get fired if they’re 10 minutes late. Ideally, a mixed-use Midtown is the best thing to bring some of those jobs back into the City, and therefore bring accessibility to the workplace.  

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43 minutes ago, X said:

 

I'm not sure what you're point is supposed to be.  Midtown is one of the best served areas of Cleveland by public transit.  So if job access for people without cars is important to you, then Midtown is a prime place to put jobs.  But earlier you seemed to have been saying that we shouldn't put jobs there because the highway access is poor (I don't agree that it is any poorer than a number of other places, btw)

My point is that access for the residents and/or employees of midtown impacts the type(s) of development. For anyone living downtown, midtown or UC, that should not be problematic. For suburban commuters however, it is more of a challenge. Furthermore, residents who live in much of the urban core and inner-ring suburbs cannot afford $2000-$3000/mo rents.  Is anything being done to address the needs of these residents in these new developments and to provide better paying jobs and access to those jobs?

 

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said:

My point is that access for the residents and/or employees of midtown impacts the type(s) of development. For anyone living downtown, midtown or UC, that should not be problematic. For suburban commuters however, it is more of a challenge. Furthermore, residents who live in much of the urban core and inner-ring suburbs cannot afford $2000-$3000/mo rents.  Is anything being done to address the needs of these residents in these new developments and to provide better paying jobs and access to those jobs?

 

 

I think the urban core is the only place where people CAN afford $2,000-$3,000 rents. Outside the urban core it’d called a mortgage. 🤣

 

I’m just still not sure I understand your line of questioning. Midtown is a potential solution to the issue of accessibility, not vice versa. Currently, we have a problem here where well educated, white collar employees live in the suburbs and work downtown or in UC. But they shop at home in their suburbs. Unfortunately, the majority of people who work in those shops live in Cleveland’s neighborhoods. 

 

Midtown, as many have mentioned on this thread, is incredibly accessible. Whether via the east-west bus lines, the north-south bus lines, car, bike, or even Bird/Lime—people from the east side neighborhoods can more readily make it to a job in midtown than a job in Highland Heights. 

 

Simultaneously—it’s not too shabby of a place to settle down if you’re a doctor/nurse at the Clinic, or a lawyer at Jones Day. It’s pretty well situated to serve EVERYONE. 

 

So I guess I’m reading your question:

 

“Is anything being done to address the needs of these residents in these new developments and to provide better paying jobs and access to those jobs?”

 

As “is anyone developing this jewel of a geography?”

 

In which case, the answer is, “KJP, tell us everything you know and more 😡!!”

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"Currently, we have a problem here where well educated, white collar employees live in the suburbs and work downtown or in UC. But they shop at home in their suburbs. Unfortunately, the majority of people who work in those shops live in Cleveland’s neighborhoods."

 

The people who work in the "shops" may be less-educated, blue collar workers, with fewer financial resources. They may be less mobile and could benefit from more affordable residential developments and improved access to better-paying jobs. That means that some of these new developments need to reflect those needs.

 

"Access" has several meanings. Not only physical access but aIso access to available resources.

 

Isn't midtown considered one of the Cleveland neighborhoods?

 

According to the Center for Community Solutions, Cleveland has a major problem with extreme poverty in 36.2% of its residents (18.2% live in abject poverty). This ranks second in the nation, behind Detroit. With a population of 385K, that represents 140K people. This poverty can also be seen in some of the inner-ring suburbs. 

 

If you work downtown or you go to a game or you walk through PS, you see it.  It affects everyone in NEO.

 

1. What is being done to provide physical access and access to resources in these new developments for the less-educated, less-mobile blue-collar residents, who make up such a large percentage of the city's population?

2. Do any of the new mid-town developments reflect the needs of this less-educated, less mobile, urban resident; not just the well-educated, white-collar suburbanite?

3. Whether its more-affordable residences or jobs, public transportation or improved freeway access for those who are lower-skilled or less-educated, something needs to be done to address the abject poverty that has plagued and continues to plague the city's core.

 

These new mid-town developments, whether residential, mixed-use, industrial or corporate may be able to address some of these "access" needs that impact the city and the entire NEO region through:

1. Acceptance of the problem

2. An understanding of the issue(s) and

3. Thoughtful planning.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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To be blunt:

 

As these new projects are being planned in midtown, do any of them reflect the needs (be it residential, employment or transportation) of the Mount Pleasant, East Cleveland, Hough, Buckeye-Shaker, Woodland, Garfield Heights, Maple Heights, Clark-Broadview or Warrensville Heights resident?

 

Or do they only target the suburban and exurban residents of NEO?

 

I know the answers, but it's important to raise these issues because until they're addressed, they will continue to plague the city and adversely affect the entire region.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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4 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

To be blunt:

 

As these new projects are being planned in midtown, do any of them reflect the needs (be it residential, employment or transportation) of the Mount Pleasant, East Cleveland, Hough, Buckeye-Shaker, Woodland, Garfield Heights, Maple Heights, Clark-Broadview or Warrensville Heights resident?

 

Or do they only target the suburban and exurban residents of NEO?

 

I know the answers, but it's important to raise these issues because until they're addressed, they will continue to plague the city and adversely affect the entire region.

Well, most of the communities you mentioned specifically are suburbs, but speaking of Hough, Mount Pleasant and Buckeye-Shaker, my hope is that we get light industrial/manufacturing developments along the neighborhoods of the Opportunity Corridor, kind of outside the midtown area, but still close by. The jobs that could be created in those types of businesses could employ people in those city neighborhoods and beyond. Euclid, Carnegie and maybe Cedar would be the "Trophy" locations for new developments, retail, apartments and white collar offices, with refurbished housing stock and infill on the side streets.

 

That's how I view the things happening in that area.

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Thanks for the response.

 

It's a very complex, pervasive  issue, without easy solutions, but unfortunately it isn't going to resolve itself.  There needs to be a concerted effort to understand the issue(s) and address them as development continues in the urban core, including midtown. Until that is acknowledged, understood and addressed, the impact will continue to be felt throughout the region.

 

Detroit has similar challenges, but is attempting to work through them as they continue their redevelopment.

 

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/voices-chad-livengood/detroits-40-square-mile-challenge-could-be-its-great-opportunity

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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On 9/22/2019 at 6:09 AM, Frmr CLEder said:

To be blunt:

 

As these new projects are being planned in midtown, do any of them reflect the needs (be it residential, employment or transportation) of the Mount Pleasant, East Cleveland, Hough, Buckeye-Shaker, Woodland, Garfield Heights, Maple Heights, Clark-Broadview or Warrensville Heights resident?

 

Or do they only target the suburban and exurban residents of NEO?

 

I know the answers, but it's important to raise these issues because until they're addressed, they will continue to plague the city and adversely affect the entire region.

It's the elephant in the room, that few want to discuss, but sooner or later it impacts everyone and becomes a real quality-of-life issue. It already is having an impact on the citizenry.

 

No one wants to walk out of their beautiful new high-rise or go to the theatre to be panhandled, or robbed, or have the homeless on the street in front of their shiny new building.

Some of this can be addressed by ensuring new development doesn't leave those behind who may need it most. Those with limited access, limited skills and perhaps limited education.

Cleveland can do this, it deserves this.

Resolution may require additional government subsidies, taxes, regulation, development incentives, corporate involvement, citizen involvement but one thing is certain; it will require multiple stakeholders, setting some personal interests aside, to address the issue(s).

 

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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While I know that it's probably not enough, most of these new housing developments that are accepting Opportunity Zone funding are being required by the city to set aside a percentage of units for affordable housing. What's good about that is that disperses low-income residents rather than concentrate them in economic dead zones. Because they are living among people with some disposable income, it probably means that there are going to be some stores, restaurants, services, etc nearby for them to use and be employed by. 

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^Is there any documentation of this policy re. Opportunity Zones? I'm not sure I understand the legal mechanism the city could use to require affordability for these projects. "Opportunity Zone funding" is just private equity investment being given preferential treatment by the IRS; I'm not sure the city would even know which projects are getting it or not. 

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38 minutes ago, KJP said:

While I know that it's probably not enough, most of these new housing developments that are accepting Opportunity Zone funding are being required by the city to set aside a percentage of units for affordable housing. What's good about that is that disperses low-income residents rather than concentrate them in economic dead zones. Because they are living among people with some disposable income, it probably means that there are going to be some stores, restaurants, services, etc nearby for them to use and be employed by. 

Thank you KJP. 

 

This is the type of response I was hoping to receive.

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21 minutes ago, StapHanger said:

^Is there any documentation of this policy re. Opportunity Zones? I'm not sure I understand the legal mechanism the city could use to require affordability for these projects. "Opportunity Zone funding" is just private equity investment being given preferential treatment by the IRS; I'm not sure the city would even know which projects are getting it or not. 

 

When I first heard about it a few months ago, I did quick Google search but couldn't find any documentation of it. But having sat in on a few meetings with developers who were planning to use OZ funding, they believed that the city Building Department would require a certain number of affordable housing units to be included. One of the developers said Cleveland's policy was inspired by a similar policy in Detroit. While I should probably just call the Building Department to see if this is true, I didn't want to bother. 🙂

Edited by KJP
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1 hour ago, StapHanger said:

^Is there any documentation of this policy re. Opportunity Zones? I'm not sure I understand the legal mechanism the city could use to require affordability for these projects. "Opportunity Zone funding" is just private equity investment being given preferential treatment by the IRS; I'm not sure the city would even know which projects are getting it or not. 

 

Agreed, I do not know of a legal mechanism for this. I’d be very curious, because that is a best practice communities nationwide would want to know about

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