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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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There's a lot more people who think like him than we realize, but are afraid to be as open about it. 

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https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/8/16/20806990/trump-religion-lgbtq-discrimination-rule?fbclid=IwAR3suHh84htjktX-cK6lXTWaCMEaiBV0TVMqvVUdEtgkBM2s1S723BX39Ls

 

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The Trump administration caused an uproar Wednesday for proposing a policy that would give certain federal contractors the right to discriminate against people who don’t share their employer’s religious views.

 

“Unconscionable,” “shameless,” and “dangerous” were just a few of the reactions from lawmakers and civil rights advocates over the religious-exemption rule that seemed, in particular, to target LGBTQ employees. Patricia Shiu, who oversaw the federal contracting office under President Barack Obama, described it to Vox as shocking.

 

The proposed rule from the Department of Labor dramatically transforms the government’s decades-old policy that bars federal contractors from discriminating against employees based on their race, sex, religion, disability, or national origin. It would instead weaken these protections by expanding the policy’s one exemption: the religious exemption.

 

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The proposed change is, above all, a political move. By targeting the LGBTQ community, President Donald Trump is showing his support for the fundamentalist evangelical Christians who make up his base of support. These groups, which oppose same-sex marriage, have been fighting for years to weaken protections for LGBTQ Americans.

 

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But here is the most concerning line in the 46-page document: The rule would “clarify that the religious exemption allows religious contractors not only to prefer in employment individuals who share their religion, but also to condition employment on acceptance of or adherence to religious tenets as understood by the employing contractor.”

 

Unless there is a stipulation in here that atheists or agnostics can fire a practicing Catholic, Jew, Muslim, etc. simply because they practice that faith, it's entirely bullsh** (it'd be bullsh** even if it included those provisions).

 

Instead of trying to live more like Christ, the evangelical right is more interested in legalizing religious bigotry founded in hate.  Disgusting.


Very Stable Genius

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Shocker...not.

 

 


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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3 hours ago, KJP said:

Shocker...not.

 

 

 

Projection of all types is a practical tradition and hallmark of the Right.

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Another shocker....not

 

 


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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https://www.advocate.com/transgender/2019/9/19/ben-carson-spews-hateful-anti-trans-slurs-hud-meeting

 

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Ben Carson, secretary of Housing and Urban Development, angered HUD staffers this week by making anti-transgender remarks during a meeting, The Washington Post reports.

 

Carson, a former presidential candidate with a long record of anti-LGBTQ comments and stances, said in the San Francisco meeting this week that he was worried about “big, hairy men” seeking to enter women’s shelters, staff members told the Post. He “also lamented that society no longer seemed to know the difference between men and women,” the paper reports.

 


Very Stable Genius

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On 9/20/2019 at 11:45 AM, DarkandStormy said:

 

These situations is why us Gay people need equal rights/protections.

 

The irony is his black @-- is being laughed at, ridiculed and treated in disrespectful manner on a daily basis.

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^It's so true. We're trying to figure out what's next after Miami and even having a house in Cleveland, we're looking at the east coast instead.

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I try and convince all my friends not to flee because then the state just keeps getting redder and it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. Easier said than done when its affecting your life though. 
 

I find it interesting (and unexpected) that the Ohio house is the only part of all state government that doesn’t have these protections.

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On 10/2/2019 at 12:36 AM, jjames0408 said:

^It's so true. We're trying to figure out what's next after Miami and even having a house in Cleveland, we're looking at the east coast instead.

It's so sad.  We're no better than ass backwards cities/states.  At this point WE ARE the ass backwards city!

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There was a time however, when Twiggy's, the Shaker Club, Vaults, Keys, Heaven, Leather Stallion, Petraca, After Midnight, Traxx, Bayou Landing, Club Baths, even the Malls were gathering places downtown or on the near eastside. There were plenty of LGBTQ+ citizens and venues with little overt bigotry or hatred.

Edited by Frmr CLEder

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I was literally just having a conversation with a buddy of mine at Erie Island, catching up and was BERATED by a young lady as I left... 

 

Let me start by saying this, and I think you all know me well enough now to trust me on this: I want everyone to be happy - if that means you identify as the opposite sex, so be it. It really doesn't affect me. Equal rights should be afforded to all and bakers should bake the damn cake lol

 

Nonetheless, last night there were two nine year old transgender children who spoke at the Dem Townhall. Am I crazy for thinking that nine is far too young to be making that consequential and permanent of a move? By nine, we have not developed fully mentally, physically, and sexually. I know most of my gay friends say they'd known since 3rd-5th grade, so I get that there becomes some level of awareness; but they also have told me that they had a really tough time distilling exactly what it meant for them at least into high school, and only one of my gay friends acted on it before college. 

 

Having said all that, I don't want people to feel uncomfortable being who they are, I just think it's impossible to know who you are sexually at that age. And, to be honest, I think it takes some coaxing to get a nine year old to understand that their feelings should lead to a transition.

 

This was the conversation my friend and I were having - my buddy LGBT, and I'm one of a handfull of people that know. After we completed our conversation, I went to throw my iced tea away, and a lady about my age (29) came to me and said "You should be ashamed. The fact that I just had to listen to such a bigoted conversation within earshot for the last 20 minutes makes me never want to go out in public." I was honestly too shocked to respond - and tbh feel terrible having made someone feel that way. 

 

I think my questions and concerns are fair, though. Raising questions shouldn't strip me of a title of being an "ally", and that type of hammer coming down on any dissenting (RESPECTFUL) views is part of what I have a problem with in re: the Democratic Party

 

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14 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

I was literally just having a conversation with a buddy of mine at Erie Island, catching up and was BERATED by a young lady as I left... 

 

Let me start by saying this, and I think you all know me well enough now to trust me on this: I want everyone to be happy - if that means you identify as the opposite sex, so be it. It really doesn't affect me. Equal rights should be afforded to all and bakers should bake the damn cake lol

 

Nonetheless, last night there were two nine year old transgender children who spoke at the Dem Townhall. Am I crazy for thinking that nine is far too young to be making that consequential and permanent of a move? By nine, we have not developed fully mentally, physically, and sexually. I know most of my gay friends say they'd known since 3rd-5th grade, so I get that there becomes some level of awareness; but they also have told me that they had a really tough time distilling exactly what it meant for them at least into high school, and only one of my gay friends acted on it before college. 

 

Having said all that, I don't want people to feel uncomfortable being who they are, I just think it's impossible to know who you are sexually at that age. And, to be honest, I think it takes some coaxing to get a nine year old to understand that their feelings should lead to a transition.

 

This was the conversation my friend and I were having - my buddy LGBT, and I'm one of a handfull of people that know. After we completed our conversation, I went to throw my iced tea away, and a lady about my age (29) came to me and said "You should be ashamed. The fact that I just had to listen to such a bigoted conversation within earshot for the last 20 minutes makes me never want to go out in public." I was honestly too shocked to respond - and tbh feel terrible having made someone feel that way. 

 

I think my questions and concerns are fair, though. Raising questions shouldn't strip me of a title of being an "ally", and that type of hammer coming down on any dissenting (RESPECTFUL) views is part of what I have a problem with in re: the Democratic Party

 

As long as you were expressing your views the way you stated and were being respectful about it, then the lady who responded was the rude and obnoxious one. Probably one of those people who just look to be offended by anything. If she listened to if for 20 minutes rather than moving her ass somewhere else out of earshot kind of shows what she is about. She could have moved, right?-but instead chose to be offended for 20 minutes? Right.

 

Regarding people transitioning at a young age, well they can take hormones now before puberty to block the physical changes that occur for boys-I just am not sure at what age that happens and in a sense that would be permanent but to block changes form puberty that would mean hormones at what? ten? eleven? 

 

For some of these kids, they literally KNOW they are in the wrong body from a very early age. If comes from the child and they fight attempts to "mold" them into the "right" sex for their body very vigorously and continuously. These are the ones where I think they should just let the child be who the child wants to be. 

Edited by Toddguy

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I think it's a pretty reasonable discussion.  I assume there were (and maybe still are) reasonable discussions around age of consent, eligible age for military service, driving age, etc. etc.  We don't really let kids do much lol.  I do wonder on what grounds identifying as trans would be made illegal, though.

 

That said, it's 2019.  People are going to be offended by everything.  Maybe that woman is trans?  Who knows.


Very Stable Genius

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7 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said:

I think it's a pretty reasonable discussion.  I assume there were (and maybe still are) reasonable discussions around age of consent, eligible age for military service, driving age, etc. etc.  We don't really let kids do much lol.  I do wonder on what grounds identifying as trans would be made illegal, though.

 

That said, it's 2019.  People are going to be offended by everything.  Maybe that woman is trans?  Who knows.

 

Well, I don't believe she was a trans woman but who knows. 

 

I think you raise a good point re: age of consent - and that's because sexuality is a major part of us. I just think its not wise to say that a child is ready to undergo that change at the age of nine. 

 

Moreover, my bigger point is kind of this: for MOST kids, I think they may know they're in the wrong body - but I don't think they'd know what that means until they're either mature enough to process it, or nudged in that direction by their parents. For instance, a woman at my gym is currently pregnant and intends on assigning the baby as gender neutral until they make up their own mind at age 4 or 5. (My wife literally goes to her morning classes just to learn about the lives of other people I swear lol)

 

Imo, going through a transition when you develop sexually is A LOT less damaging to a kid than thrusting them with the responsibility of assigning their own gender before they're old enough to do long division. 

Edited by YABO713

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1 minute ago, YABO713 said:

I think you raise a good point re: age of consent - and that's because sexuality is a major part of us. I just think its not wise to say that a child is ready to undergo that change at the age of nine. 

 

I mean, again...on what grounds would we legally say "you can't identify as X until Y age?"

 

If you're talking about surgeries, hormones, etc. (I am admittedly very ignorant on what trans people go through) in terms of medical procedures, then I assume for minors they need parental consent?  Again, way out of my element here.


Very Stable Genius

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1 minute ago, DarkandStormy said:

 

I mean, again...on what grounds would we legally say "you can't identify as X until Y age?"

 

If you're talking about surgeries, hormones, etc. (I am admittedly very ignorant on what trans people go through) in terms of medical procedures, then I assume for minors they need parental consent?  Again, way out of my element here.

 

Yeah same, kinda walking blindfolded. But you need parental consent for a tattoo under a certain age

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I think if it's just kids expressing themselves as the opposite sex, then parents should give them freedom and be supportive.  I think that hormones and surgeries should be for adults only.  Again, I am just as ignorant of these nuances as you 2 as well. But i think it's an acceptable thing to discuss. 

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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I give it a 80-20 chance that SCOTUS rules that LGBT aren’t covered.  It’s how Jesus intended or something.  

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On 10/11/2019 at 2:59 PM, YABO713 said:

Am I crazy for thinking that nine is far too young to be making that consequential and permanent of a move?

 

Were the children looking to transition? If not, then I think you should just reassess the "permanent" nature of their decision.

 

I have a cousin who decided at age 5 that he is a boy. It's a complicated situation, but his parents feel like the most damaging way they could handle it is making him feel that he should continue identifying as female, which sends the message that there is something wrong with being trans. So they are allowing him to live as a boy and seeking as many resources (including regular trips to a therapist at the LGBT resource center at Cincinnati Children's Hospital).

 

Having thought about it, I think the child making this decision early is good, allowing them to explore the identity and figure out if it really fits. Especially prior to puberty.

 

The big question will come at the age where puberty would onset. I don't know what side effects there might be for delaying puberty with hormones, but if there are any permanent ones that could make a decision very tough. At least as a preteen a child is more prepared to make a decision than a 5 or 9 year old, though.

 

I would advocate against any surgeries until age 18.

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