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Cleveland: Warehouse District: Development and News

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This IMO is the most game changing development downtown, it wakes a sleeping giant and changes the dynamic of the parking lot district back into a destination area. No other project in the city has an impact on an area as much as this one would.

 

I think that the conversions on Public Square are really going to help give a push to developing the empty lots. There's what. 4 buildings being developed/going to be developed? 55 Public Square, 75 Public Square, Terminal Tower, and May Co.

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^another buidling as well---i think its called the Park Bldg---between May co and ontario was done about 5 yrs ago.

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^and don't forget the potential for 1/33 Public Square:

 

I had always wanted the Ameritrust site to be a big office tower---but perhaps it too should be off office and residential---say floors 2-20 apartments, 21-60 offices, and 61-90 condos using three separate elevator banks.

 

 

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^another buidling as well---i think its called the Park Bldg---between May co and ontario was done about 5 yrs ago.

 

Yeah, there's a few good buildings that have been done there. Recently, the Standard. My friend purchased a condo with their fiance in the Park Building last year. Its a cool space. Once Public Square fills up in the next couple years it'll be a big motivation for the Warehouse District lots. The Warehouse District has been vital to Downtown.

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^and don't forget the potential for 1/33 Public Square:

 

I had always wanted the Ameritrust site to be a big office tower---but perhaps it too should be off office and residential---say floors 2-20 apartments, 21-60 offices, and 61-90 condos using three separate elevator banks.

 

Is that the lot between Tower City and 55? We really need a tower there. Always thought that the Nucleus would be good anchoring Public Square and the Warehouse District.

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Yes. Two bldgs were torn down there to make space for the Ameritrust Tower. If I recall correctly, their addresses were 1 PS and 33 PS. No idea why remember that!

 

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It also looks like something is going on in the three spaces empty spaces. There’s a bunch of guys going in and out of the old paninni’s and whatever the nightclub. I couldn’t get close enough to the blueprints to see anything.

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I was browsing downtown Cleveland via maps yesterday, and couldn't help but cringe when I looked at the Warehouse district. I understand Weston published plans a couple years ago, but can someone educate me on why there are so many surface lots in this area, and is there anything that can be done to start developing this area? All this red is really depressing...

parking-cleveland.thumb.jpg.9dfaf8975e4911233ce8c71cd09382c1.jpg

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I was browsing downtown Cleveland via maps yesterday, and couldn't help but cringe when I looked at the Warehouse district. I understand Weston published plans a couple years ago, but can someone educate me on why there are so many surface lots in this area, and is there anything that can be done to start developing this area? All this red is really depressing...

 

Because:

+ The city didn't prohibit demolishing buildings for surface parking until the 1980s or 1990s

+ When the Justice Center was built in the 1970s, relocating the courts from the east side of downtown, the need for parking moved with it

+ The metro area expanded beyond the reach of its rapid transit system decades ago, meaning there is no reasonable alternative to driving/parking

+ Parking in downtown Cleveland is underpriced/undertaxed

 

These parking lots bring in a lot of revenue for very little operating expense. That's why buying these properties cost millions of dollars per acre. With that much expense, along with the high costs of building new stuff downtown and downtown's low rents due to our stagnant economy/anti-growth local leadership, means that they will stay parking until significant subsidies are available, our parking/taxing/public transportation investment policies change, the parking lobby is overcome and/or the local economy grows at least as fast as the national economy.

 

BTW, that parking lot between West 9th-10th is actually a deck below the level of West 9th.


In 1976, the City of Cleveland issued NINE building permits. NINE. When we start to feel down about the progress of development here vs. other cities, remember how lifeless Cleveland was and how far it's come.

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For those who call it the Parking Lot District....

 

 

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In 1976, the City of Cleveland issued NINE building permits. NINE. When we start to feel down about the progress of development here vs. other cities, remember how lifeless Cleveland was and how far it's come.

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On 6/22/2018 at 11:42 AM, stpats44113 said:

 

 

Any idea what's going on with the Liquid remodel??  They apparently missed their "Late Summer" reopen ...

 

During the summer I saw work being done when I would occasionally walk by, but I haven't seen anything being done there recently.

 

20181030_142242.thumb.jpg.90f5f7ad50fa510943a1ecca0e5e91b8.jpg

 

Edited by dar124

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Just now, dar124 said:

 

 

Any idea what's going on with the Liquid remodel??  They apparently missed their "Late Summer" reopen ...

 

20181030_142242.thumb.jpg.90f5f7ad50fa510943a1ecca0e5e91b8.jpg

 

 

The only date that is less accurate than project start date is project completion date. 

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Just now, freefourur said:

 

The only date that is less accurate than project start date is project completion date. 

 

 

Yea I agree.  Just a bit concerning that there dosen't seem to be much activity going on in / around the building recently.

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Liquid is not re-opening, at least not as Liquid. They lost one of their big backers on the remodel. The general manager of the place just took a new job elsewhere. There is currently zero activity going on.

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9 minutes ago, stpats44113 said:

Liquid is not re-opening, at least not as Liquid. They lost one of their big backers on the remodel. The general manager of the place just took a new job elsewhere. There is currently zero activity going on.

 

 

Yep, I realize it was going to be remodeled / rebranded and the reopened.  But it was just way past the scheduled reopen date.

 

I was interested in seeing the new place and was hoping that it wasn't gonna be closed for good.

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The lights seem to be on at night and some work seems to be going on inside but slow going.  Whatever it opens as I hope it is vastly different than Liquid.  Was also happy to see the Legal Aid Society takeover the Tequila Ranch space recently.  Glad to see the Warehouse District slowly clean itself up and cater more to its own residents and their safety.  

Edited by NYC Boomerang

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Just now, NYC Boomerang said:

The lights seem to be on at night and some work seems to be going on inside but slow going.  Whatever it opens as I hope it is vastly different than Liquid.  Was also happy to see the Legal Aid Society takeover the Tequila Ranch space recently.  Glad to see the Warehouse District slowly clean itself up and cater more to its own residents.  

 

 

What are you saying?  The residents need the Legal Aid Society?  ??

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Note that many tried to buy this building and bid up the price. That's the real estate market in Cleveland's hot neighborhoods right now...

 

 


In 1976, the City of Cleveland issued NINE building permits. NINE. When we start to feel down about the progress of development here vs. other cities, remember how lifeless Cleveland was and how far it's come.

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Redirected from the nuCLEus thread....

 

6 hours ago, StapHanger said:

^Right- I was explaining why the conveyance is to an LLC Stark itself formed. An arm's length conveyance at the property level would incur deed transfer tax, so Stark is likely conveying the development to his own new LLC, and then selling the membership interests in the LLC to the third party. @mjarboe wrote about this conveyance structure earlier in the year.

 

Which explains why Stark didn't sell the interest in the prior LLC..."Stark 1350 LLC." The new owner probably didn't want the name "Stark" in it. BTW, if the name is that important, then I have to wonder what significance exists in it being called "1350 W6" rather than "1350 W3." Are we to infer that the Weston-owned properties along the south side of St. Clair are to be transferred to a new ownership too, as well? They haven't sold in the last two years or more and they haven't submitted any filings to the Ohio Secretary of State to add partners or change agents in the last two years. Or should we infer that the Stark property has transferred to Weston?

 

BTW, I was informed some months ago that Dream Hotels was interested in establishing a location along St. Clair Avenue in the Warehouse District. I wrote about it here:

http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2018/09/smaller-nucleus-may-come-from-dream.html

 


In 1976, the City of Cleveland issued NINE building permits. NINE. When we start to feel down about the progress of development here vs. other cities, remember how lifeless Cleveland was and how far it's come.

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Made a blog article out of the above. To me, the scant information points to a possible development on the south side of St. Clair from West 3rd to West 6th.....

 

THURSDAY, DECEMBER 27, 2018

Stark Enterprises sells its HQ, but to whom? And why?

 

A potentially strategic property transfer in downtown Cleveland nearly slipped under the radar last week. Not only was the transfer publicly filed the Friday right before the Christmas holiday weekend, perhaps to avoid attention, but it was sold using a process that concealed the details of the transaction.

 

...It begs the question why Stark didn't just sell the company that had previously owned his HQ. A possible reason is that the company, Stark 1350 LLC, had Stark's name in it. The new buyer probably didn't want any reference to Stark in the company's name. That name, 1350 W6 LLC, is also an enigma. The property isn't at 1350 West 6th. It's at 1350 West 3rd. Both are at the corner of St. Clair Avenue. Unless it's a typo, the company's name suggests that the buyer has plans for the south side of St. Clair, all the way from West 3rd to West 6th.

 

MORE:

http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2018/12/stark-enterprises-sells-its-hq-but-to.html

Edited by KJP

In 1976, the City of Cleveland issued NINE building permits. NINE. When we start to feel down about the progress of development here vs. other cities, remember how lifeless Cleveland was and how far it's come.

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Could be the rumored Dream Hotel project? 

 

Edit:  Sorry KJP--should have read the posting via the link, where you mention this! 

Edited by Cleburger
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Call me crazy, but I think sitting and waiting for a coporate HQ in the Parking Lot District is a losing strategy. I would love to see Weston develop those lots into something like brownstones - ranging from $400k-$600k... you could have one row of home facing W. 3rd, splice the parking lot into two, and continue W. 4th through the parking lots. This would have a set of brownstones facing W. 3rd, with an alleyway-garage path behind, and another facing W. 4th. On the other portion of the parking lot, you could do the same, with one set facing W. 6th, and the other facing W. 4th. 

 

Having equity in residences in this area is, imo, equally as important as corporate tenants for the area's sustainability. Safety concerns could be limited with the formation of an HOA and a 24/7 security staff. 

 

Maybe I'm crazy, but most cities have residences in their downtown. 

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^Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't most of the (now dead) Weston development suppose to be residential (although not townhouses and not sure if any were going to be condos).  I don't think they were looking to build much of anything in the way of offices.  In any event it looks like we are still going to have parking lots there for the foreseeable future unless some of KJP's new speculation becomes a reality.

Edited by Htsguy

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^^The fact is that brownstones wouldn't be a highest and best use unfortunately, and at this point they're actually making money on the investment with the parking. No reason to sell low in a sense.

I do think brownstones would be a great project though.

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Weston's plan was supposed to be flexible, ie a 25-story story proposed for a hotel could instead be apartments or a mixed use building, including offices. The only part of the Weston plan that was preferred/prioritized as an office use was the NW corner of West 3rd and Superior. There, they proposed a 37-story office tower.

 

The rumor was that Dream Hotel was interested in a site "on St. Clair in the Warehouse District." The corporate name that bought Stark's HQ has a West 6th Street address, not a West 3rd address. Typo? Doubtful, considering the name is repeated multiple times in their Secretary of State filing. And the new name appears to be an important part of this transaction. At the risk of reading too much into these pieces of information, combined with how Dream Hotel is a large boutique brand that ranges in size from 169 to 314 rooms per location, I can see why and how this hotel could extend from West 3rd to West 6th along the south side of St. Clair. The historic building at 1350 W. 3rd is five stories tall. I developed a simple diagram (below) to check how this could work. If Stark's HQ -- a 5-story building with its existing floor plate widths -- were extended around the perimeter of a new parking deck (designed to add on top more levels of parking and/or residential, hotel, offices, etc.), it would have enough square footage to accommodate 250 rooms, which is about the size of hotel that Dream typically offers. Again, I have no insight on this except what I posted in my blog. This could be me adding 2+2 and coming up with 7, but the scale works out per my diagram below.

St Clair development1.jpg

Edited by KJP
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In 1976, the City of Cleveland issued NINE building permits. NINE. When we start to feel down about the progress of development here vs. other cities, remember how lifeless Cleveland was and how far it's come.

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On 12/28/2018 at 10:51 AM, YABO713 said:

Call me crazy, but I think sitting and waiting for a coporate HQ in the Parking Lot District is a losing strategy. I would love to see Weston develop those lots into something like brownstones - ranging from $400k-$600k... you could have one row of home facing W. 3rd, splice the parking lot into two, and continue W. 4th through the parking lots. This would have a set of brownstones facing W. 3rd, with an alleyway-garage path behind, and another facing W. 4th. On the other portion of the parking lot, you could do the same, with one set facing W. 6th, and the other facing W. 4th. 

 

Having equity in residences in this area is, imo, equally as important as corporate tenants for the area's sustainability. Safety concerns could be limited with the formation of an HOA and a 24/7 security staff. 

 

Maybe I'm crazy, but most cities have residences in their downtown. 

 

This isn’t a terrible idea. I was thinking more along the lines of roughly 4-6 story buildings like the other buildings. I don’t really think it’s necessary for large buildings that are 25-40 stories. Something similar to the quarter project would be a great fit for most of the parking lots. Brownstones could be really cool too. I work on W 6th and live on Euclid at E 6th. I go out to the warehouse district almost every weekend. It’s kind of soul crushing to walk through all those lots. I’m sure any townhouse development in the warehouse district would be very high end and call for prices in the high 6 figures if not even 1+ mil. I think that brownstones on the lots on  facing W 9th would be really great. But the ones on w W 6th closer to public square would be better for mixed-use developments with street level retail/restaurant space?!

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Being it's a total blank slate right there I envision W 3rd as the dividing line. Front W 3rd and Superior corridors with larger structures but then rapidly scale down to the  4-6 range,  transitioning into the warehouse district. W 3rd and E 9th are our two corridors to the lake and should be treated as such.  Brownstones could work in the interior of the super block but definitely need to break it up with a few streets.

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Bullard in Crain's says The Standard has leased only 157 of 285 apartments (55%) after a year of marketing. Is it too soon to call this conversion a failure?  Previous data (last summer?) said the 2-bedroom units were moving well; the 1-bedroom units were not. The Standard Building drag could be one reason for Weston's go-slow approach to new construction.

 

Vacancy numbers are in the caption to the Standard Building photo:

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/big-wins-losses-hit-regions-realty-market

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There's nothing wrong with optimism, as long as you don't get your hopes up.

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2 hours ago, Dougal said:

Bullard in Crain's says The Standard has leased only 157 of 285 apartments (55%) after a year of marketing. Is it too soon to call this conversion a failure?  Previous data (last summer?) said the 2-bedroom units were moving well; the 1-bedroom units were not. The Standard Building drag could be one reason for Weston's go-slow approach to new construction.

 

Vacancy numbers are in the caption to the Standard Building photo:

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/big-wins-losses-hit-regions-realty-market

I almost signed a lease at the Standard for a 2 bedroom, until I saw the Halle Buildings rooms and rates.  So I'll be a Halle resident in February.  Standards views are phenomenal and the apartments are first rate.  But the location is not great and their parking situation sucks.  Still, I'm shocked they havent leased more.  

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20 hours ago, mack34 said:

I almost signed a lease at the Standard for a 2 bedroom, until I saw the Halle Buildings rooms and rates.  So I'll be a Halle resident in February.  Standards views are phenomenal and the apartments are first rate.  But the location is not great and their parking situation sucks.  Still, I'm shocked they havent leased more.  

I think you chose well! I don't think i would enjoy the view of the Justice center across the street. Playhouse Square is a much better location.

 

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Agree, there really isn't much in the immediate area expect for Hotel restaurants,bars. Nothing like living along lower Euclid and playhouse. It would be wise for the involved parties (Standard, Illuminating buildings) to try to activate W 2nd.  

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3 hours ago, shack said:

I think you chose well! I don't think i would enjoy the view of the Justice center across the street. Playhouse Square is a much better location.

 

I think everyone agrees the Justice Center is just poison to its immediate surroundings. 

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There isn't a lot "right" there, but you're less than a 5 minute walk to the Warehouse District, East 4th/lower Euclid and Prospect, or Tower City.  It's pretty well located, Justice Center excepted.

 

I do love the idea of activating W. 2nd though.  75 Public Square and the Standard both have storefronts on W. 2nd, and maybe the buildings on the other side of the street could with some limited alterations.  Cleveland needs to make better use of it's small streets in general- E. 6th, Barn Court, W. 4th, Johnson Court, and others could all be cool "alley" retail streets.

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Agreed, but when compared to any of the new offerings on Euclid, Standards location really isolates it.  Plus its first floor is empty, no coffee shop, convenient store, nothing.  The apartment market is getting very competitive right now with almost 1000 units under construction or renovation.  I've looked at almost all the new ones...Standards rooms are great and offer awesome amenities, but the parking is expensive and you have to park in surface lots in warehouse district.  

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I concur, this is posied to be a great reaidential location. I was speculating on the reason for the lower rental rates at the Standard. The immediate area just doesn't have the "it" factor yet... 

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