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Cincinnati: Fountain Square: Development and News

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Let's be honest poverty rate and low test scores go hand in hand in any school district.Cincinnati is the highest performing large public school system in ohio.Graduation rate is around 80% up from the low 50's in last decade.It Is what it is.Long way too go.

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That new permanent stage looks much more appropriate than the current one. I like the location better too. It'll make the corner of 5th and Vine feel less cluttered. 

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“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

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Walked by Fountain Square today and it looks like they might already be doing demolition work? The whole area by the Fifth Third Tower is fenced off and there is heavy equipment onsite. 

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Say goodbye to the Walnut Street breezeway!


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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10 minutes ago, JYP said:

Say goodbye to the Walnut Street breezeway!

 

Yes the wonderful place at night where heroin junkies would shoot up! 

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Has 5/3 agreed to its removal? They still have employees in the 530 & 580 buildings.


"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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Yes, but they have a skywalk that connects to the 5/3 building that will remain.  Part of the lobby redesign is to create a mezzanine area where people can gather but is not past the security area. The current one was way to small and outdated for today's security needs. No longer would people enter the building by the elevator, they will need to go to the Walnut Breezeway as the main entrance.

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Got it. I was confusing the breezeway with the skywalk. Are they booting out the DD stand? Always thought their main entrance had a weird setup.


"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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12 minutes ago, Cygnus said:

Got it. I was confusing the breezeway with the skywalk. Are they booting out the DD stand? Always thought their main entrance had a weird setup.

I would hope so, that kiosk makes the lobby look so cheap and not like an elevated bank HQ.

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21 hours ago, troeros said:

 

Yes the wonderful place at night where heroin junkies would shoot up! 

 

There was definitely room for improvement without removing the breezeway. Fountain Square is a public space and pedestrian access is important. Actually, its a key to creating great urban spaces which help cities thrive. Eliminating this helps create a super block and limits access for pedestrians from the northeast.

 

The sky walk is for employees and although there is public access its still not a great way to enter such a public space.

 

There was room for a win/win here but it will go down as a missed opportunity. The square will suffer because of this and you won't know it till its too late.

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“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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On 10/16/2019 at 3:33 PM, troeros said:

 

Yes the wonderful place at night where heroin junkies would shoot up! 


Used to walk through there daily. No one was shooting up heroin in that space.
 

Stop trolling.

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I loved the first look for the square. the location of the fountain, different levels of gardens, the breeze way and even the wide covered walk on 6th Street. From the rendering the latest alterations won't improve the last alteration.

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2 hours ago, Gordon Bombay said:


Used to walk through there daily. No one was shooting up heroin in that space.
 

Stop trolling.

 

Because my experiences of what I've seen don't match your experiences does not mean I'm trolling. I've seen people countless times shoot up in the breezeway while walking back from late night reds games/bar hopping. They use it because it hides them from public eyes. 

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1 hour ago, troeros said:

 

Because my experiences of what I've seen don't match your experiences does not mean I'm trolling. I've seen people countless times shoot up in the breezeway while walking back from late night reds games/bar hopping. They use it because it hides them from public eyes. 


lol ok. 
 

The perfect place to shoot up is a corridor near a public square lined with cameras (in front of a bank branch), a regular guard who watches the square, 5/3 private security, 3CDC ambassadors, constant vehicular/transit traffic, regular foot traffic, and a late night bar. Way, way better than any of the nearby alleyways or the more quiet spots just a few blocks over. 
 

Get out of here. 

 

Edited by Gordon Bombay
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Fountain Square Book store located in the Macy store will close. Owner stated lack of business development there 

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2019/10/30/fountain-square-book-store-close/4096327002/

 

So when will 3cdc actually go ahead and announce something? If there not building a tower and just leasing the spaces out than why the hell is it taking so long to reactivate such a critical corner of downtown? I'm so confused...

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https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/10/30/fountain-square-retailer-to-close.html?iana=hpmvp_cinci_news_headline

 

Quote

“3CDC would like to thank the Booksellers for doing everything it could to remain open, but understands why the decision was ultimately made to close,” 3CDC said in a statement. “While the organization is sad to lose the Booksellers as a tenant at Fountain Place, 3CDC has been hard at work on a development plan for this critical site in Cincinnati’s urban core for several months, and hopes to share its plans soon.”

 

Statment by 3cdc...again confused by their statement of working on a developement plan for several month and then say...

 

Quote

 3CDC said it will immediately begin to look for a new tenant to fill the Booksellers’ space.

 

So the development plan is to just fill the space again? That's what has taken 3cdc months to develop in terms of a development plan? What?

 

So confusing... Especially since 3cdc is usually pretty good with turn around time for finding new tenants and filling commercial spaces up again. 

 

Is this being held up because of the office element above the fountain place store? I'm assuming there will be no crazy new tower and have to assume that's what it is...but I don't get why that would delay filling these vacant spaces that have been sitting dormant gathering dust for almost a year now. 

 

 

Edited by troeros

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On 9/10/2019 at 12:28 AM, SleepyLeroy said:

Saw this marketing brochure online. Looks like they are trying to attract an office tenant to replace MACYS on the first floor. No matter how flashy this is though those views of the building on page 5 make it look downright dumpy. https://images1.loopnet.com/d2/qgbacrNjcPOyamIhGl8R1-iFc6FTPeg4P9YhvxnAgbU/document.pdf

 

 

This could ease your confusion, or enhance it. Not sure.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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So far the Macy’s closure has taken out three other businesses (Tiffany’s, Palomino, Booksellers.) It’s too bad- I wonder what the restaurants/retail replacing them will be. Seems like 3cdc has luck with restaurants and indie small boutiques. Wonder how much of that same style is supportable 


www.cincinnatiideas.com

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8 minutes ago, JYP said:

 

This could ease your confusion, or enhance it. Not sure.

 

I've seen this before...confused why they can't fill the retail space in the mean time? Its baffling they are choosing  to wait for an office tenant and let these spaces just stay inactive in the mean time. Especially since it seems like they aren't doing enhancements to the building that will compromise any of the new retail tenants day to day business.  

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So explain to me. I thought there was supposed to be an announcement  months ago on an office tenant or something coming to this space to fill it.

It seems like nobody really knows what will become of this space.

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http://www.cushmanwakefield.com/properties/r88758-1

 

They were listing 3 spaces (now with the book store closing 4). There is only 1 space remaining according to the listing page..I'm guessing they have signed tenants already. I'm guessing 3cdc will want to announce something when all the commercial spaces are fully leased including the office space instead of staggering them out. 

 

I get it, but still somewhat shocked it had to take this long for it to happen.

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The plan is still to fill it with Kroger IT/84.51 employees as far as I know.

 

3CDC typically has no problem letting ground floor retail spaces sit vacant until they have found the "perfect" tenant for it.

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On 10/17/2019 at 8:39 PM, troeros said:

 

Because my experiences of what I've seen don't match your experiences does not mean I'm trolling. I've seen people countless times shoot up in the breezeway while walking back from late night reds games/bar hopping. They use it because it hides them from public eyes. 

 

Lived on Fourth Street for years and never saw that once. 

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6 hours ago, troeros said:

http://www.cushmanwakefield.com/properties/r88758-1

 

They were listing 3 spaces (now with the book store closing 4). There is only 1 space remaining according to the listing page..I'm guessing they have signed tenants already. I'm guessing 3cdc will want to announce something when all the commercial spaces are fully leased including the office space instead of staggering them out. 

 

I get it, but still somewhat shocked it had to take this long for it to happen.

 

Demand for retail space has definitely declined and restaurants seem overbuilt in Cincinnati.  What worked for 3CDC in the past may not work in the future.

Edited by thesenator
Formatting

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I have to imagine that if Kroger/84.51 move a couple hundred of employees there, then the demand for restaurants would also hugely increase 

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1 hour ago, seaswan said:

I have to imagine that if Kroger/84.51 move a couple hundred of employees there, then the demand for restaurants would also hugely increase 



From everything I have heard its far more than a “couple hundred“. It Could be upwards of 1000 jobs and if so that block along with fountain square will become alot busier with foot traffic. I really do believe they should be able to land some pretty good retail/bar/restaurant tenants. In regards to the delay I haven’t got a clue what’s the hold up.

Edited by 646empire

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1 hour ago, thesenator said:

 

Demand for retail space has definitely declined and restaurants seem overbuilt in Cincinnati.  What worked for 3CDC in the past may not work in the future.

 

Disagreed. 3cdc wants different concepts but that doesn't mean no more resturaunt/bars. For instance, the recently announced Jazz Lounge in the 3cdc Behlen Building is a good example of this. 

 

3cdc targets resturaunts/bar that differ from one another instead of carbon copies and I think this is a method that works well for them and I think it's something downtown can still use more of. 

 

We definitely have more room for different types of ethnic resturaunts/conceptual bars/clubs that push for a more multi level Las Vegas feel, etc...I think 3cdc knows this, and this is what ultimately 3cdc targets. 

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There’s a couple of prominent vacant retail spaces in the old Enquirer building (Homewood Suites) just north of the square as well.

 

i do think there’s a risk in spreading 3cdc kind of restaurant/retail stuff too thin, especially with this talk of a convention center expansion and needing to actively “activate” that area.

 

its tough when a whole class of retail (suburban chains like the stuff that would be in Newport Pavilion and similar shopping centers) only looks at vehicle traffic counts which almost automatically disqualifies an urban environment. (I’m not rooting for chains over independent small businesses with this comment, just saying it makes it difficult to fill the all the spaces)

Edited by thebillshark

www.cincinnatiideas.com

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37 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

There’s a couple of prominent vacant retail spaces in the old Enquirer building (Homewood Suites) just north of the square as well.

 

i do think there’s a risk in spreading 3cdc kind of restaurant/retail stuff too thin, especially with this talk of a convention center expansion and needing to actively “activate” that area.

 

its tough when a whole class of retail (suburban chains like the stuff that would be in Newport Pavilion and similar shopping centers) only looks at vehicle traffic counts which almost automatically disqualifies an urban environment. (I’m not rooting for chains over independent small businesses with this comment, just saying it makes it difficult to fill the all the spaces)

 

I think unique destination's can help alleviate that problem. 

 

For instance, I would love a comedy club style resturaunt..something small and intimate like go bananas. Cincinnati doesn't have any dedicated comedy style clubs in downtown. 

 

I think you need to look at the retail and make a list and see what the urban core has an abundance of and what the urban core still needs. I think unique, original concepts is what has been helping 3cdc alot with maintaining a good track record of filling retail space and keeping them filled. 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, thebillshark said:

There’s a couple of prominent vacant retail spaces in the old Enquirer building (Homewood Suites) just north of the square as well.

 

i do think there’s a risk in spreading 3cdc kind of restaurant/retail stuff too thin, especially with this talk of a convention center expansion and needing to actively “activate” that area.

 

its tough when a whole class of retail (suburban chains like the stuff that would be in Newport Pavilion and similar shopping centers) only looks at vehicle traffic counts which almost automatically disqualifies an urban environment. (I’m not rooting for chains over independent small businesses with this comment, just saying it makes it difficult to fill the all the spaces)

I feel like the vacant spaces in the Enquirer and some of the other historic tax credit recipient buildings has something to do with not making any changes within a 5 year (?) window to the renovation's completion. I believe if they added a retail tenant immediately that retail tenant would have to run their design, especially things like signage through the historic review board. Not entirely sure how it works to be honest but I remember hearing something to that affect. 

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25 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

I feel like the vacant spaces in the Enquirer and some of the other historic tax credit recipient buildings has something to do with not making any changes within a 5 year (?) window to the renovation's completion. I believe if they added a retail tenant immediately that retail tenant would have to run their design, especially things like signage through the historic review board. Not entirely sure how it works to be honest but I remember hearing something to that affect. 

 

It's true there is a 5-year window of oversight... but it should be possible to lease out that space while still adhering to the historic guidelines. Lots of projects that get Historic Tax Credits have retail components. 

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23 hours ago, troeros said:

http://www.cushmanwakefield.com/properties/r88758-1

 

They were listing 3 spaces (now with the book store closing 4). There is only 1 space remaining according to the listing page..I'm guessing they have signed tenants already. I'm guessing 3cdc will want to announce something when all the commercial spaces are fully leased including the office space instead of staggering them out. 

 

I get it, but still somewhat shocked it had to take this long for it to happen.

 

It's listed as one space but it's really 2-3 spaces "Three Ground-Level Suites: 4,309 SF. 4,421 SF, 4,893 SF. Asking rate is negotiable." The largest contiguous square footage is 8,730sf which is on the Race Street side of the building.

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Between the Millennium Hotel Shutting down, Fountain Square going through Fifth Third Renovations closing the businesses there temporarily, and fountain place still completely vacant...one of the more active areas of downtown has become a total ghost town. 

 

 

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59 minutes ago, troeros said:

Between the Millennium Hotel Shutting down, Fountain Square going through Fifth Third Renovations closing the businesses there temporarily, and fountain place still completely vacant...one of the more active areas of downtown has become a total ghost town. 

 

 

Temporarily yes, but give it a couple years and it’ll be better than it is currently. 

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I've been told that Messer Construction will begin demo work on the fountain square buildings sometime in december. Supposedly there will be a announcement about what is coming there soon. 

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2 hours ago, RealAdamP said:

I've been told that Messer Construction will begin demo work on the fountain square buildings sometime in december. Supposedly there will be a announcement about what is coming there soon. 

 Am I reading this correctly? If they are demoing that whole building, then they would have to be replacing it with something quite significant, no?

 

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6 minutes ago, Rabbit Hash said:

 Am I reading this correctly? If they are demoing that whole building, then they would have to be replacing it with something quite significant, no?

 

 

It's probably just interior demolition. So the space can be divided up as the owners want, and built out how future tenants want it.

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