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Cincinnati: Fountain Square: Development and News

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5 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Question..in what capacity is your source connected to the project? 

 

None, Directly. My contact works in the carew tower and heard details about the Fountain Place project from management/ownership because they where discussing the future of the skywalk connecting the buildings.

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5 minutes ago, 646empire said:

 

None, Directly. My contact works in the carew tower and heard details about the Fountain Place project from management/ownership because they where discussing the future of the skywalk connecting the buildings.

 

Interesting..I'm still not entirely sure how they would go about building a tower if they have already gone about leasing the office space in fountain place? Would they still be able to construct a tower in that scenario? 

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21 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Interesting..I'm still not entirely sure how they would go about building a tower if they have already gone about leasing the office space in fountain place? Would they still be able to construct a tower in that scenario? 

 

 

I had thought the same thing which is why I early on assumed there would be no new tower built but I’m kinda with you with if it’s taking this long maybe we are going to get a addition on top. My gut tells me if we do get new construction it will be on the shorter side 10-15 floors maybe.

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42 minutes ago, 646empire said:

 

None, Directly. My contact works in the carew tower and heard details about the Fountain Place project from management/ownership because they where discussing the future of the skywalk connecting the buildings.

 

Is the skywalk going away? If so, it would really improve that block. 

 

Also there are structural support connections on top of Fountain Place for a potential expansion from the days of Fountain Square West.

 

I would assume they would expand on that footprint if floors are added for anything.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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20 minutes ago, JYP said:

 

Is the skywalk going away? If so, it would really improve that block. 

 

Also there are structural support connections on top of Fountain Place for a potential expansion from the days of Fountain Square West.

 

I would assume they would expand on that footprint if floors are added for anything.

 

Would that allow 3cdc to lease the lower floors for an office tenant, and have the employees actively work, while simultaneously constructing a tower above the connecting support base?

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4 hours ago, JYP said:

 

Is the skywalk going away? If so, it would really improve that block. 

 

Also there are structural support connections on top of Fountain Place for a potential expansion from the days of Fountain Square West.

 

I would assume they would expand on that footprint if floors are added for anything.

 

 

I just know at the time they wanted to keep it. With all those new jobs at Fountain place It could make those retail spaces in the Carew tower arcade more attractive. Especially in the winter those employees could just go straight into Carew and grab something to eat without going outside.

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6 hours ago, troeros said:

 

Interesting..I'm still not entirely sure how they would go about building a tower if they have already gone about leasing the office space in fountain place? Would they still be able to construct a tower in that scenario? 

The building was designed to support a tower on top of the store after the store was built. Whether there is a department store down there or offices,, I cant see why they still couldn't construct a 20-25 story tower on top of it.

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On 9/11/2019 at 4:46 PM, troeros said:

Would that allow 3cdc to lease the lower floors for an office tenant, and have the employees actively work, while simultaneously constructing a tower above the connecting support base?

 

With a loud enough white noise system there's no reason an office space couldn't function while a skyscraper was being built atop it.

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13 hours ago, Ram23 said:

 

With a loud enough white noise system there's no reason an office space couldn't function while a skyscraper was being built atop it.

Are you joking? Lol. Can you imagine trying to hold meetings while shouting over white noise? Not to mention at high enough decibels the white noise would damage hearing.

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I work on a first floor office in a building currently under renovation in OTR. We have construction going on overhead all the time for the residential unit build outs and its pretty annoying. While the work we are experiencing is done by one crew of 2-3 people. I can only imagine how disruptive a construction project of that size could be, especially once you have cranes, welding, concrete pours, drilling for MEP and materials delivery happening above you. No thanks!


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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5 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

Most building departments wouldn't allow a major construction project to happen directly above current occupant area. 

 

So either.... the office tenant is a much larger tenant and the office workers won't be moving in right away in order to construct the tower...or there is no new tower, and the building itself will just be reoccupied again (which is somewhat disappointing.)

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1 hour ago, troeros said:

 

So either.... the office tenant is a much larger tenant and the office workers won't be moving in right away in order to construct the tower...or there is no new tower, and the building itself will just be reoccupied again (which is somewhat disappointing.)

 

Yeah, sounds like to me there's no new tower...so much for Crancels big announcement. Small man, small plan.

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Holy sh*t the square is being overtaken by structures and overhangs and pavilions. Also, cutting off access from Walnut is a big mistake. They should be enhancing that connection, not eliminating it. This is what happens when public space design is left in the hands of a bank.

 

I hope, but doubt, this will be rejected. 

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The permanent stage will do wonders. The current temporary set-up feels awkward and Jerry-rigged from Vine Street and effectively cuts off the “public” from the “public space.” I’m on board if for that alone. 

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Im confused and growing more disgruntled by the day over Fountain Place I just don’t understand what’s going on. That building in my opinion is absolutely pivotal to the health of downtown, It sitting empty is a drain on the whole business district. 3CDC needs to put up NOW. Also at this point it better be more than just a simple renovation with office space.

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17 hours ago, 646empire said:

Im confused and growing more disgruntled by the day over Fountain Place I just don’t understand what’s going on. That building in my opinion is absolutely pivotal to the health of downtown, It sitting empty is a drain on the whole business district. 3CDC needs to put up NOW. Also at this point it better be more than just a simple renovation with office space.

 

Yeah, I'm a little confused about what the overall plan is with fountain place. I've heard so much hype and conflicting plans that I have no idea what to expect at this point. 

 

A part of me thinks that 3cdc has been a little hand tied because of projects like the Downtown Kroger Store, The Convention Hotel RFP, etc..

 

But I'm hoping we will get some clarity in the next month or 2. We are a few months shy from when 3cdc purchased fountain place. Its hard to imagine (assuming no towert) it takes such a long time for 3cdc to find commercial and office tenants in such a prominent location of downtown cincy. 

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1 hour ago, troeros said:

 

Yeah, I'm a little confused about what the overall plan is with fountain place. I've heard so much hype and conflicting plans that I have no idea what to expect at this point. 

 

A part of me thinks that 3cdc has been a little hand tied because of projects like the Downtown Kroger Store, The Convention Hotel RFP, etc..

 

But I'm hoping we will get some clarity in the next month or 2. We are a few months shy from when 3cdc purchased fountain place. Its hard to imagine (assuming no towert) it takes such a long time for 3cdc to find commercial and office tenants in such a prominent location of downtown cincy. 

 

 

See I heard that from multiple people on this forum about 3CDC being a little “overwhelmed” with so many projects but it’s not really true in my opinion. Kroger is now finished, they essentially have no major role in the convention hotel as currently being discussing since they are not building at the plum street lot. AND 4th and Race isn’t really a full 3CDC project they are only responsible for the garage portion and a Indianapolis developer is building the apartments.

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3CDC is also doing the Willkommen project which consists of 20 individual buildings (a combination of historic renovations and new construction) and nearly 200 units in total. This project is probably just as time consuming (if not more so) than 4th & Race because it requires various approvals for each individual building. Even though the Fountain Square renovation appears to be mostly a Fifth Third thing, I bet 3CDC is heavily involved in that as well, given the fact that they were responsible for the most recent overhaul of the square ~15 years ago and continue to run all of the programming. They also recently absorbed DCI and might be still be focused on merging the two organizational structures, or their proposal to create a SID in OTR.

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I have heard there is a major office tenant going upstairs bringing over 1,000+ jobs to the square. The new first floor retail space will be vine street facing  and there will be new storefronts along Race Street across from 84.51. There are no immediate plans to tackle the tower above.

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Wow but 1000+ jobs is... a lot more people downtown. I mean, that's like 900 more people than were normally in that building when Macy's was there, save for holidays.

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44 minutes ago, d_burnham said:

I have heard there is a major office tenant going upstairs bringing over 1,000+ jobs to the square. The new first floor retail space will be vine street facing  and there will be new storefronts along Race Street across from 84.51. There are no immediate plans to tackle the tower above.

 

Any word when there will be any sort of announcement?

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On 10/2/2019 at 1:28 PM, troeros said:

 

Any word when there will be any sort of announcement?

 

It hasn't been announced yet because the office user has not given the go ahead on a press release. 

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54 minutes ago, d_burnham said:

 

 

It hasn't been announced yet because the office user has not given the go ahead on a press release. 

 

Do you know who the office tenant might be? Is it a company already located downtown that is expanding their work force? Or is a greater cincinnati/out of state company moving to the CBD?

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On 10/2/2019 at 12:43 PM, d_burnham said:

I have heard there is a major office tenant going upstairs bringing over 1,000+ jobs to the square. The new first floor retail space will be vine street facing  and there will be new storefronts along Race Street across from 84.51. There are no immediate plans to tackle the tower above.

Can that building hold 1000 employees?

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4 hours ago, nicker66 said:

^Kroger IT/Technology 

 

I feel like IT workers are the perfect type of workers that you can hope sway to live downtown. Large salaries mean they could easily afford much of the real estate options downtown/otr and most of the workers tend to be foreign from India/Europe/Asia, etc and bring much sought after diversity that every large city has.

 

What's interesting is that many of them take the metro bus from the suburbs like from Olde Montgomery next to Bethesda North Hospital and use it to get downtown. What's interesting is that when I've talked to some of these folks, they admitted that they only had 1 car for their families, and we're looking to save money rather than add expenses like paying for a second car + Gas/Maintenance, etc. If that's the case let's move them downtown! 

 

Foreign people, especially who just recently moved to America love public transport accessibility because many of them did not have cars in their home cities. So why are they sticking to the damn suburbs when they could live downtown?

 

It could be a great opportunity and hopefully this could add a new wave of immigrants living downtown. 

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8 minutes ago, jmblec2 said:

Where would they send their kids to school?

 

Cincinnati Public? I means there are families live in the urban core and do go to school after all. 

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^ Let's not pretend that the lack of decent public schools isn't a problem. It essentially precludes middle class families from urban living. It's unfortunate because that is one of the single largest demographics in the country.

 

Because of this, the vast majority of families with school aged kids in and around the urban basin fall into one of two categories - they either can't afford to move their kids into a neighborhood with better elementary schools, or they're wealthy enough that they can afford private schools.

 

Cincinnati can add thousands of decent paying middle class jobs downtown, but very few (if any, to be honest) of those employed are going to spend $300,000+ on a condo, pay $10,000+ in property taxes every year, and be satisfied enough with the performance of Hays-Porter to send their kids there.

 

The reason so many immigrants live in the area off Montgomery that you mentioned above is because it's in Sycamore School District. The same goes for a number of apartment complexes in Mason and West Chester - in Mason and Lakota schools. These families mostly end up buying homes in the same areas. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Ram23 said:

^ Let's not pretend that the lack of decent public schools isn't a problem. It essentially precludes middle class families from urban living. It's unfortunate because that is one of the single largest demographics in the country.

 

Because of this, the vast majority of families with school aged kids in and around the urban basin fall into one of two categories - they either can't afford to move their kids into a neighborhood with better elementary schools, or they're wealthy enough that they can afford private schools.

 

Cincinnati can add thousands of decent paying middle class jobs downtown, but very few (if any, to be honest) of those employed are going to spend $300,000+ on a condo, pay $10,000+ in property taxes every year, and be satisfied enough with the performance of Hays-Porter to send their kids there.

 

The reason so many immigrants live in the area off Montgomery that you mentioned above is because it's in Sycamore School District. The same goes for a number of apartment complexes in Mason and West Chester - in Mason and Lakota schools. These families mostly end up buying homes in the same areas. 

 

 

 

So if Hamilton County/City of Cincinnati care so much about facilitating growth and diversity than why isn't the number 1 priority now to fix the public school systems downtown so we can usher in new families and immigrants to the urban core? 

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21 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

So if Hamilton County/City of Cincinnati care so much about facilitating growth and diversity than why isn't the number 1 priority now to fix the public school systems downtown so we can usher in new families and immigrants to the urban core? 

That's a very good question!

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Cincinnati public schools have open enrollment as well as some of the best public schools in the state.Walnut Hills is a school kids move into the city for.So the best kids will be fine in the city.But sure the entire school system needs too raise its standards.It has improved but long long way too go.

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So are the suburban public schools just better funded like Mason/Sycamore and thus they are more successfu

 

If that's the case, why doesn't the city/Hamilton county divert more money to the public schools rather than millions of dollars to developers?

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Well yes suburban school systems have always been better funded in Ohio.School funding in the state has been based on taxing property values for decades.Higher property value more school tax revenue.Thats changing a bit in Cincinnati at least.More wealthy people are moving into and buying in the city proper.Property and home values are increasing in much of the city.

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8 hours ago, ucnum1 said:

Well yes suburban school systems have always been better funded in Ohio.School funding in the state has been based on taxing property values for decades.Higher property value more school tax revenue.Thats changing a bit in Cincinnati at least.More wealthy people are moving into and buying in the city proper.Property and home values are increasing in much of the city.

 

Cincinnati public school spends more per child then most better performing schools yet ranks last.

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