Cleveland: Downtown: Sherwin-Williams Headquarters

[Frmr CLEder]

Agreed. Landmark, even with its renovation over the years, is still almost 90 YO. It couldn't possibly meet the needs of today's corporations and continued renovations would be expensive.

[Larry1962]

5 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Agreed. Landmark, even with its renovation over the years, is still almost 90 YO. It couldn't possibly meet the needs of today's corporations and continued renovations would be expensive.

TRUE!

And one of the requirements is lower maintenance cost going forward.

 

And besides they LOVE CLEVELAND and they know that they need a modern CLASS A OFFICE BUILDING to attract and keep the best employees and their current HQ is

CLASS B which means it's somewhat outdated already.

[ASPhotoman]

2 hours ago, jfristik said:

Why are we convinced it is going to be greater than 1,000 feet? Just wondering if that is hopeful speculation or based on something tangible? They could keep their current space and build an additional space that is much smaller, right?

It's just an estimate based off the scenario they build a on the Jacobs lot. @KJPsaid a source mentioned that SW submitted an RFQ for 1.8m sq ft. Put a building that size on the Jacobs lots and you have over 1000' tower. 

 

For comparison: Key Tower is 947' tall with 1.5 million sq ft.

[KJP]

But it could spread into the Weston lots. Don't  know how much yet. And yes, other places downtown are being considered. Technically, none are favored yet. But SHW's past selection of the Jacobs lot is important. It's also important that that selection was made under the leadership of the prior CEO.

[gottaplan]

So back to the RFP, I'm curious how everyone thinks this is being structured.  

 

Is City of Cleveland putting together a singular incentive package to get entire operation downtown, regardless of Public Square or Nucleus location?

 

And then are developers putting together proposals to build & lease back tower/campus type developments?

 

Does anyone have insight as to what the property owners of the locations in question are trying to do?  Sell to a developer, hang on to it/retain a stake in the deal?

 

Finally, it seems to me this RFP has probably been ready to release for quite some time.  It's almost like they timed it to be released just as Frank Jackson was having his worst week ever.  In the words of Rahm Emmanuel, never let a crisis go to waste.  He's desperate for a win and some positive PR right now.  

[KJP]

21 hours ago, gottaplan said:

So back to the RFP, I'm curious how everyone thinks this is being structured.  

 

Is City of Cleveland putting together a singular incentive package to get entire operation downtown, regardless of Public Square or Nucleus location?

 

Yes, eventually. Neither side is ready yet.

 

Quote

Finally, it seems to me this RFP has probably been ready to release for quite some time.  It's almost like they timed it to be released just as Frank Jackson was having his worst week ever.  In the words of Rahm Emmanuel, never let a crisis go to waste.  He's desperate for a win and some positive PR right now.  

 

You're funny. Or just weird.

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by KJP

[Htsguy]

^ @KJP just to be clear, Gottaplan was referencing above an RFP when you have always stated that it was a RFQ that was sent to Gilbane and Turner.  Is that correct, it was an RFQ?

[KJP]

Yes, it was an RFQ but asked for proposals as well. Can't say much more because I like my sources.

[Htsguy]

18 minutes ago, KJP said:

Yes, it was an RFQ but asked for proposals as well. Can't say much more because I like my sources.

OK then here is some really creative speculation on my part.  In my mind an RFQ to Gilbane and Turner may be evidence that the development could be farther along than many may think.

 

I always thought it strange that a company as sophisticated as Sherwin Williams would even need to send an RFQ for this type of project.  They are well aware who has the capabilities to CM a potential super tall, especially since they have explored this in the past.  Indeed, the fact that they even limited the RFQ to Gilbane and Turner shows they are well familiar with them.

 

It may be that SW is attempting to get some pricing information but in my amateur experience an RFQ is not the appropriate vehicle for that.  I am wondering if SW is not trying to determine from these two busy firms (especially right now with construction booming across the nation)  whether they have the capabilities to accomplish XY and Z as spelled out in the Request, but whether they will have the staffing and resources in place at a "particular time" to devote to this massive undertake given present and future commitment.  In other words are they just plain going to be too busy to take on this project.

 

Again all speculation on my part, but if true it could mean that SW already has a time line in place with regards to a groundbreaking and they want to see which firm can meet this deadline and/or determine whether they might have to tweak the project time line due to the unavailability of one or both Gilbane and Turner.

[Clevecane]

When will then be now?!

[simplythis]

Mayor Jackson vows to keep SHW https://fox8.com/2019/09/14/mayor-jackson-vows-cleveland-will-compete-to-keep-sherwin-williams/

[Frmr CLEder]

All of the concern may be for naught. I suspect that SW, the City, County and State may have already informally discussed the future of SW on PS.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Frmr CLEder

[CleveFan]

3 hours ago, simplythis said:

Mayor Jackson vows to keep SHW https://fox8.com/2019/09/14/mayor-jackson-vows-cleveland-will-compete-to-keep-sherwin-williams/

Good- that’s exactly what he should be saying. 

[Frmr CLEder]

5 hours ago, CleveFan said:

Good- that’s exactly what he should be saying. 

Let's make sure we walk the talk.

[gottaplan]

I just don't see the point of issuing RFQ's to construction companies unless SW plans to contract directly with them and PURCHASE the sites in question, then build their own tower/campus....  projects like this are typically done more as a design/build lease back with a developer with an option to purchase after 20 yrs or something.  This is what the County building did with Geis a few years ago - saves all the capital & risk from the tenant side

 

Also curious how GEIS fits into all this discussion...   I know they are working all angles

 

and of course Welty - the President of Welty, Don Taylor, has tight connections with SW executives and Welty hired a new business dev guy about 18 months ago who formerly worked at SW....  and his wife Mary Taylor is former Lt Governor, has close connections still for gathering incentive money....

Edited September 15, 2019 by gottaplan

[KJP]

FYI: SHW didn't issue the RFQ.

 

While many developers/construction managers don't have the expertise to build whatever SHW wants to build, I'm told some are knocking on SHW's doors to inquire about their existing properties.

[Sapper Daddy]

1 hour ago, KJP said:

FYI: SHW didn't issue the RFQ.

 

While many developers/construction managers don't have the expertise to build whatever SHW wants to build, I'm told some are knocking on SHW's doors to inquire about their existing properties.

 

[MikeyB440]

1 hour ago, KJP said:

FYI: SHW didn't issue the RFQ.

 

While many developers/construction managers don't have the expertise to build whatever SHW wants to build, I'm told some are knocking on SHW's doors to inquire about their existing properties.

Does that mean the city submitted it? Blink once for no or twice for yes.

[Pugu]

^If the City did, it would probably have to have been published publicly for public bid.

[Clvlndr in LV]

I suspect the RFQ came from property owners that were approached by or reached out to SHW. I'm thinking Jacobs and or Weston but I'm sure @KJP  will sort that out for us soon enough.

[PoshSteve]

With a project this massive, couldn't it be likely SHW is working with one set of property owners/designers/developers for the HQ Tower (say Jacobs) and simultaneously another team for the R&D (say Weston)? I would thing too that they have alot of their ideas flashed out, especially after the aborted plans a few years ago, and would also want to move fairly quickly before costs rise. Splitting the project fully in two could ensure each team has enough resources to devote to their respective project, instead of risking becoming bogged down between this and other work. 

[KJP]

Joe Roman Talks About Search for New Sherwin Williams Headquarters

https://gcpartnership.com/-/media/ROMAN-WILLS-SHERWIN-WILLIAMS_1.mp3?la=en&hash=7CFDB5FA07E3AC75BAB098F2A796590E

[MayDay]

[Clefan98]

I was just told the new location will be announced in 90-120 days. If SHW decides to keep their HQ in Ohio, they will remain downtown. However, I'm less confident today this will be the case. Their search is indeed nationwide, and if I were an oddsmaker, I'd put their chances of staying in Cleveland around 50%.

[WindyBuckeye]

5 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

I was just told the new location will be announced in 90-120 days. If SHW decides to keep their HQ in Ohio, they will remain downtown. However, I'm less confident today this will be the case. Their search is indeed nationwide, and if I were an oddsmaker, I'd put their chances of staying in Cleveland around 50%.

Just curious who your source is. This is scary news indeed.

[CLE_Millennial]

5 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

I was just told the new location will be announced in 90-120 days. If SHW decides to keep their HQ in Ohio, they will remain downtown. However, I'm less confident today this will be the case. Their search is indeed nationwide, and if I were an oddsmaker, I'd put their chances of staying in Cleveland around 50%.

If that's the case, this would be the worst news Cleveland's had in over a decade. Keeping my fingers crossed Sherwin doesn't make this horrible move.

[mrclifton88]

If they were moving their entire operation out of state could they really make an announcement in 90-120 days?  That seems pretty aggressive for such a monumental shift.  If they were staying put however....

[WindyBuckeye]

1 minute ago, mrclifton88 said:

If they were moving their entire operation out of state could they really make an announcement in 90-120 days?  That seems pretty aggressive for such a monumental shift.  If they were staying put however....

Yeah would be very aggressive. Also the employee morale would probably be something to notice with all Valspar and current SW employees having to move to a new city. That would be some large labor costs.

[CLE_Millennial]

If there are any public city council meetings that cover this Sherwin-Williams move, I'd love to attend. We need to show our voices that Sherwin is appreciated here in NEO.

[Pugu]

13 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

I was just told the new location will be announced in 90-120 days. If SHW decides to keep their HQ in Ohio, they will remain downtown. However, I'm less confident today this will be the case. Their search is indeed nationwide, and if I were an oddsmaker, I'd put their chances of staying in Cleveland around 50%.

 

Could you expand further? You saying their 'nationwide' comment isn't really just a ploy to see how much the state will give them to counter another state's offer, but they really are open to moving somewhere else? Can you give more info on your source--e.g., is he/she a sr. exec or board member? Any more info you could share would be helpful to understand such a gloomy and frightening post. Thanks.

[Clefan98]

25 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said:

If they were moving their entire operation out of state could they really make an announcement in 90-120 days?  That seems pretty aggressive for such a monumental shift.  If they were staying put however....

 

It's not that aggressive considering they already know where they're going/staying. If they decide to leave, they still have four years to make plans for it.

[cle_guy90]

9 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

 

It's not that aggressive considering they already know where they're going/staying. If they decide to leave, they still have four years to make plans for it.

 

Just to be clear, you are saying they've already made their final decision on their new location?

[troeros]

27 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said:

If they were moving their entire operation out of state could they really make an announcement in 90-120 days?  That seems pretty aggressive for such a monumental shift.  If they were staying put however....

 

Didn't they say the projected transition would happen, at the earliest, by 2023?

 

I imagine any early announcement of relocation would be a good faith effort by SW to give their employees enough time to either:

 

A) Relocate to the new HQ state. 

 

B) Give enough time for in advance for SW employees to begin seeking different job opportunities.

 

 

 

[Clefan98]

4 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said:

 

Just to be clear, you are saying they've already made their final decision on their new location?

 

I think it's safe to assume they know where they're going considering there's an announcement date.

[cle_guy90]

5 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Didn't they say the projected transition would happen, at the earliest, by 2023?

 

I imagine any early announcement of relocation would be a good faith effort by SW to give their employees enough time to either:

 

A) Relocate to the new HQ state. 

 

B) Give enough time for in advance for SW employees to begin seeking different job opportunities.

 

 

 

I could be wrong but I actually think it's a good sign for them staying.  If I was an employee and didn't want to leave Cleveland I would start looking for a new job now.  There would be hundreds of employees that would be doing that.  Then once they get a new job, I'd be a lot harder to recruit someone for that position because they'd be saying come to Cleveland for a year or two or three and then be prepared to move.  

[ctown60]

Wouldn't it take just as long to build a new building of that size here in Cleveland. Also why haven't we heard anything from our political leaders.. Jackson, Budish, DeWine. etc. I would think this would have been an "all hands on deck" scenario.

[troeros]

3 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said:

I could be wrong but I actually think it's a good sign for them staying.  If I was an employee and didn't want to leave Cleveland I would start looking for a new job now.  There would be hundreds of employees that would be doing that.  Then once they get a new job, I'd be a lot harder to recruit someone for that position because they'd be saying come to Cleveland for a year or two or three and then be prepared to move.  

 

I'm not sure what the job market is like in Cleveland, but I imagine SW corporate employees make a solid salary plus benefits. 

 

I would have to imagine many employees would begin seeking job opportunities but I also have to imagine many would consider relocating and staying with SW as well. 

[mrclifton88]

@Clefan98 Can you share how you know there is a date?  Do you work there/know someone who does/was there an internal communication?  We need sources or this is going to go off the rails quickly 

[B767PILOT]

On 10/9/2007 at 11:03 PM, Mov2Ohio said:

 

But you've got to look at things like ,why are Chicago and The City of New York's skylines so admired?

I've lived in Manhattan for decades and I've never really paid it much mind

[StapHanger]

It seems pretty  implausible to me that they would move the entire HQ/research team.  Can anyone think of a straight relocation anywhere close to that sort of headcount?  Boeing, for example, moved its HQ from Seattle to Chicago almost 20 years ago, but that moved less than 1000 people and left tens of thousands of employees back in Seattle.  GE only moved a few hundred people when it relocated from CT to Boston.

[B767PILOT]

1 minute ago, ctown60 said:

Wouldn't it take just as long to build a new building of that size here in Cleveland. Also why haven't we heard anything from our political leaders.. Jackson, Budish, DeWine. etc. I would think this would have been an "all hands on deck" scenario.

Could be relative silence because it's a done deal except for the fine print

[B767PILOT]

8 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said:

I could be wrong but I actually think it's a good sign for them staying.  If I was an employee and didn't want to leave Cleveland I would start looking for a new job now.  There would be hundreds of employees that would be doing that.  Then once they get a new job, I'd be a lot harder to recruit someone for that position because they'd be saying come to Cleveland for a year or two or three and then be prepared to move.  

I agree....has SW engaged in any activity which would lead one to beleive that they are considering relocation?  

[Clefan98]

2 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said:

@Clefan98 Can you share how you know there is a date?  Do you work there/know someone who does/was there an internal communication?  We need sources or this is going to go off the rails quickly 

 

No I can't give any hints at all, sorry. There's a lot of new eyes on this forum.

[urbanmyth]

I hate seeing articles like these popping up around the country. SW should not add extra stress to the people of Cleveland if they already know what their plans are. We have been disappointed too many times over the years. My biggest concern is always the airport. Loosing the hub with direct flights to so many large and midsize cities is a real concern for big corporations. This is a massive turning point for Cleveland, SW stays downtown and we keep the momentum going and then some, they leave and we are set back in a big way. 

 

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2019/09/17/sherwin-williams-is-hunting-a-new-headquarters-so-of-course-dallas-gets-a-mention/

 

http://www.wbap.com/2019/09/17/d-fw-could-be-considered-for-a-new-global-sherwin-williams-hq-and-rd-center/

 

 

[troeros]

1 minute ago, B767PILOT said:

I agree....has SW engaged in any activity which would lead one to beleive that they are considering relocation?  

 

I mean SW did publicly admit in a press release letter that they were considering all their options and now as @Clefan98 has indicated, it seems that was indeed not simply a, "throwaway" statement but rather a true indicator of what SW is searching for in regards to tax cuts/state assistance and isn't afraid to leave Ohio for a state that is willing to give them what they are searching for in their new HQ.

[B767PILOT]

2 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

 

No I can't give any hints at all, sorry. There's a lot of new eyes on this forum.

Well you actually have given some definite hints already:  namely a general timeline for an announcement and the fact that they are looking out of state

[Clefan98]

2 minutes ago, B767PILOT said:

I agree....has SW engaged in any activity which would lead one to beleive that they are considering relocation?  

 

Yes, they released a press statement saying they were looking at all options. I'll flip it, what have they done that would lead one to believe they aren't considering a move? 

[YO to the CLE]

4 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

 

No I can't give any hints at all, sorry. There's a lot of new eyes on this forum.

 

Well if this is the case...Sherwin Execs, the people of Cleveland and Northeast Ohio want you here. Stay and grow with us please . We have plenty of underutilized lots downtown where you can put a nice new skyscpraper! 

[WindyBuckeye]

2 minutes ago, urbanmyth said:

I hate seeing articles like these popping up around the country. SW should not add extra stress to the people of Cleveland if they already know what their plans are. We have been disappointed too many times over the years. My biggest concern is always the airport. Loosing the hub with direct flights to so many large and midsize cities is a real concern for big corporations. This is a massive turning point for Cleveland, SW stays downtown and we keep the momentum going and then some, they leave and we are set back in a big way. 

 

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2019/09/17/sherwin-williams-is-hunting-a-new-headquarters-so-of-course-dallas-gets-a-mention/

 

http://www.wbap.com/2019/09/17/d-fw-could-be-considered-for-a-new-global-sherwin-williams-hq-and-rd-center/

 

 

Dallas is such a meh city. Lame choice.

[B767PILOT]

1 minute ago, Clefan98 said:

 

Yes, they released a press statement saying they were looking at all options. I'll flip it, what have they done that would lead one to believe they aren't considering a move? 

I meant have they actually made a move other than the press release which would indicate that they might leave. Such as were there any consolidation of operations to be undertaken in CLE that have been postponed?