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Cleveland: Sherwin-Williams' Headquarters

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10 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

Our civic low self esteem is one of the biggest impediments to our success. It’s hard to achieve greatness when you have a self imposed cap on what you think you can accomplish. We’ve got to stop this. 

 

I was under the impression that Clevelanders have been feeling pretty good about themselves since 2016, with the big wins of that year: the Cavs, the RNC and the Indians in the World Series.  Even studies have pointed out a marked increase in civic pride. 

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13 minutes ago, jeremyck01 said:

 

I was under the impression that Clevelanders have been feeling pretty good about themselves since 2016, with the big wins of that year: the Cavs, the RNC and the Indians in the World Series.  Even studies have pointed out a marked increase in civic pride. 

We're feeling better collectively, but when opinions were already so low, improved numbers are still low lol. 

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1 hour ago, Toddguy said:

There does not need to be a new tallest or anything like that for Cleveland IMO. 

 

You already have your historical tall building in the Terminal Tower

 

You have a really good and very tall tallest in the Key Tower.  This is a classic skyscraper IMO and is a really good focal point.

 

Anything else should not be a new tallest but should complement the others in the skyline and help to fill it out around that group. 

 

I hope they really do it at this site and do it right.

I agree. I'm actually excited about the prospect a 40 story tower will do to visually balance the skyline. Most towers are east of public square. Only 3 of the tallest are west of it currently.

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I wonder if the tower will be mostly concrete with a glass wall on one side or something like that. It will have to blend in well with the other two towers or else it won't look right.

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51 minutes ago, Mov2Ohio said:

I agree. I'm actually excited about the prospect a 40 story tower will do to visually balance the skyline. Most towers are east of public square. Only 3 of the tallest are west of it currently.

I do hope that if there is a significant tower it is built with some kind of tapering top or spire to match the other two tallest. I would really hate to see a box or a jenga tower. Something sort of avante garde and glassy would look good as a supporting tower to the Key Tower, sort of like the other two right there support it now. 

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25 minutes ago, jbee1982 said:

I wonder if the tower will be mostly concrete with a glass wall on one side or something like that. It will have to blend in well with the other two towers or else it won't look right.

It could always sort of blend in regarding size and form and not necessarily materials. Just sayin' and all. 

 

 

Edited by Toddguy

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7 hours ago, KJP said:

Clevelanders are in serious need of a confidence boost. This HQ project should help some.

Not sure why the low confidence! Cleveland is amazing!  Aside from all these amazing tall structures you guys are getting in downtown, you're also getting a lot of really cool projects in virtually every area of the city! I'd give up my left nut for a quarter of what you guys are getting out there, out here in Toledo... 

 

 

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15 hours ago, jbee1982 said:

I wonder if the tower will be mostly concrete with a glass wall on one side or something like that. It will have to blend in well with the other two towers or else it won't look right.

Hopefully, the exterior will be a lighter color.  There are too many dark, drab buildings downtown.  A glass wall would be nice.  The Terminal Tower would appear in the reflection.

 

14 hours ago, Toddguy said:

I do hope that if there is a significant tower it is built with some kind of tapering top or spire to match the other two tallest. I would really hate to see a box or a jenga tower. Something sort of avante garde and glassy would look good as a supporting tower to the Key Tower, sort of like the other two right there support it now. 

SW has an opportunity to make a bold statement and greatly enhance the Cleveland skyline. I hope they build it tall enough, at least taller than Terminal Tower with a tapered spire. Key Tower looks rather lonely standing 200+ feet above Terminal Tower and 200 Public Square. 

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What types of retailers and or restaurants do you think may/should occupy the first floor of the SHW HQ TOWER?

 

And what about the best layout for the other buildings on the Weston lots as it concerns both retailers and perhaps even residential mix use buildings beside the R&D and PARKING GARAGE buildings?

Edited by Larry1962
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27 minutes ago, Larry1962 said:

And what about the best layout for the other buildings on the Weston lots as it concerns both retailers and perhaps even residential mix use buildings beside the R&D and PARKING GARAGE buildings?

It would be nice if they can try to design the other buildings to blend in with the existing Warehouse District buildings nearby.  It's a shame they didn't do that with the Pinnacle Building which was built on the parking garage a while back.     

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16 hours ago, Toddguy said:

I do hope that if there is a significant tower it is built with some kind of tapering top or spire to match the other two tallest. I would really hate to see a box or a jenga tower. Something sort of avante garde and glassy would look good as a supporting tower to the Key Tower, sort of like the other two right there support it now. 

 

I'm glad someone else feels the same way.  If folks drive on 77 heading north into downtown, we've got three large towers on the left and a whole bunch of smaller one on the right.  Anyways looked strange IMHO.

As for height, I'm not paying for the SHW HQ, so my opinion's worth next to nothing.  But skyscraper aficionados seem to make a big deal about towers at least 500 feet (about 150m) in height.  And a fifth tower in that range would move CLE up a bit.

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6 minutes ago, skiwest said:

It would be nice if they can try to design the other buildings to blend in with the existing Warehouse District buildings nearby.  It's a shame they didn't do that with the Pinnacle Building which was built on the parking garage a while back.     

I agree. I have hope that they'll do something like this after learning they like the design of Goodyear's HQ which ties in brick, steel, and glass well. However, I'm hoping that brick is incorporated on the Weston lot buildings to transition well into the neighborhood and that a nice modern glass building goes on the Jacobs lots. (Obviously contingent on the HQ being built there) 

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I would be fine with it not blending in with what’s there. Something along the lines of that Weston Superblock rendering would be cool. Forward looking Cleveland. 

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From a few days ago....

 

 

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Just now, Sapper Daddy said:

Is there a sense from local and state government that any incentives package from a competing site would be matched?

 

None. I'm working on another article.

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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11 minutes ago, freethink said:

There is a lot more of that concept from Tha Austin CO. with a video. The one thing I like is how they use the corner of the current Hdqs as part of the proposal. Still hoping that one day something, anything is built there.

 https://t.co/CUygiAV12v?amp=1

It just screams brutalist. Notttt a fan

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To add on to the Austin Co. speculative design - here's a quick animation I put together with a 60ish story structure on the square. It's vague/blurry since the building lacks detail and I stopped working on it.

 

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1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

 

Ken - I agree it was a solid piece, but two things worth mentioning.  The PD loves to attach SHW's HQ with its ongoing lead paint controversy.  Big companies get sued for because its products are sometimes unsafe.  Keeping SHW in Cleveland or moving it to Atlanta or Mars won't absolve it from these allegations that SHW manufactured and marketed lead paint to developing countries.  So unless Cleveland plans to bail SHW out of its lead paint liability, why is discussing this here particularly relevant again?

Second point, the article points out that Downtown Cleveland hasn't had the best luck in retaining Fortune 500 businesses, sure, but the list of businesses aren't exactly a who's who of corporate America.  Many of those businesses ended up acquired (Diamond Shamrock and Sohio) while others just went under completely (National City Bank or LTV).  I can't see how any of that had to do with Cleveland itself.

Edited by PaxtonMarley
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yeah, yeah we could all henpeck the austin design, but overall i really like where they were going with it. and most of all very cool that they whipped it up and put it out there at all. its good inspiration and food for thought. and its not like its way off what i would imagine any of us were thinking for the riverfront site. 

 

its also a reminder that with hq going downtown there remains the issue of redeveloping the riverfront. maybe it will now have to come from the opposite direction and scranton thunderbird related developments will help prompt that? 

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I think it's a reflection of many of the reporters conducting historical research but lacking the historical perspective.  A lot of the results must be placed within the appropriate historical context. The Kucinich administration was one, but there have been issues with education, transportation, economics, as well as hostile local and state politicians, all of which impact those relocation decisions.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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Brent Larkin has written a very solid article with regards to Sherwin-Williams quest for a new global headquarters.

 

One thing that nobody has seemingly mentioned in any posts is the fact that our beloved Cleveland and it's surrounding region is considered to be quite stagnant when it comes down to attracting new residents ... Particularly those with higher education credentials.

 

Might this play a pivotal role in Sherwin-Williams decision making process?

 

Toss in the well chronicled and problematic issues swirling around the city's transit infrastructure (RTA denied $60 million request to replace aging rapid-transit rail cars) and we may have all of the necessary ingredients for a less than favorable outcome. Don't even get me started on our long neglected Hopkins "international" airport.

 

Whatever the state, county, and city officials are offering up, they best NOT drop the ball on this one. Our city is poised to continue moving upwards, but if Sherwin-Williams does pull up stakes and leave town, just imagine what turmoil would be left in it's wake.

 

The incentives better be a proverbial pot-of-gold!!!! 

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On 11/10/2019 at 7:06 PM, Toddguy said:

I do hope that if there is a significant tower it is built with some kind of tapering top or spire to match the other two tallest. I would really hate to see a box or a jenga tower. Something sort of avante garde and glassy would look good as a supporting tower to the Key Tower, sort of like the other two right there support it now. 

I think it should be complimentary to 200 Public Square across from it in the way Key Tower  compliments the Terminal Tower. I don't think another spire is needed or beneficial to the skyline.

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53 minutes ago, John D. Baumgardner said:

One thing that nobody has seemingly mentioned in any posts is the fact that our beloved Cleveland and it's surrounding region is considered to be quite stagnant when it comes down to attracting new residents ... Particularly those with higher education credentials.

This annoys me. SHW has been in Cleveland 100 years. They’re a billion dollar business RIGHT NOW. Clearly they don’t have a problem attracting the kind of talent they need or A: they wouldn’t be as successful as they are now or B: they would’ve left a long time ago

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I think there's some truth there, but no place is perfect and at least if you are aware of your deficiencies, you can seek to address them.  Other threads address the airport and GCRTA, but NEO needs local officials with a vision and the drive to address the issues.  I also agree, SW is staying put, regardless of the above-referenced issues; they may even be part of the solution to those challenges.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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1 hour ago, inlovewithCLE said:

This annoys me. SHW has been in Cleveland 100 years. They’re a billion dollar business RIGHT NOW. Clearly they don’t have a problem attracting the kind of talent they need or A: they wouldn’t be as successful as they are now or B: they would’ve left a long time ago

 

I'm probably one of this city's most loyal and ardent supporters ...

 

I was born in Cleveland and will probably die here, but facts are facts.

 

I absolutely love and cherish this city ... But to overlook the realities that impact Cleveland is rather short-sighted.

 

In a statement from Sherwin-Williams it has been indicated that they want their future home to be in a place where there will be significant resources and an easily tapped pool of future talent as the company continues to grow. I believe that the company will likely stay here, but there's always still a chance that they won't.

 

For decades this city has dwindled in population and sadly this isn't going to change in our lifetime. The so-called "brain drain" from the region is quite irrefutable and very real. Even in my own personal sphere of friend's, I have had to say goodbye to friend's who had to leave due to limited opportunities in their field of work or expertise.

 

It's wonderful that companies like Sherwin-Williams and Progressive can attract highly educated talent to our city - but these aforementioned companies can not and will not sustain an entire metropolitan area and outlying region.

 

Let's just hope a gleaming new tower or corporate campus will soon be announced for those unsightly parking lot's adjacent to Public Square.

Edited by John D. Baumgardner
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To me the article makes it pretty clear.  Sherwin Williams wants to stay here.  Other places are offering better incentives.  As long as the state and city match we are good.

Edited by cle_guy90

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As far as being able to attract talent- I wouldn't put this city down so quickly... I was looking for updated stats on the college educated population change (which has been 1-to-1 in recent years for those who have moved to the region with college degrees vs. those without degrees who have left the region).  This article is going on 4 years old, but as stated above- the region may be able to hold its own.

 

Cleveland ranks among top 10 U.S. cities for population growth of college-educated millennial residents

Downtown Cleveland experiences 76 percent increase in residents aged 25-34 since 2000 

 

EMBARGOED UNTIL 1.19.16 AT 7:30 A.M. EST
Download
The Fifth Migration: A Study of Cleveland Millennials

CLEVELAND – In a first-of-its-kind in-depth look at millennials in Northeast Ohio, a Cleveland Foundation-commissioned study by The Center for Population Dynamics at Cleveland State University reveals Cleveland is eighth in the nation in the growth rate of college-educated millennial residents aged 25 to 34. And Cleveland’s millennial residents – those born between 1982 and 2000 – are leading a rapid ‘fifth migration,’ the term for the re-urbanization of metro areas nationally, here in Cleveland.

 

The study, “The Fifth Migration: A Study of Cleveland Millennials,” reveals that while Cleveland has experienced a millennial migration since 2008, it was during the growth experienced from 2011 to 2013 for which Cleveland tied for eighth in the nation (along with Miami and Seattle) in the percent increase of college-educated millennials. The study also shows Cleveland ranked eighth nationally in the concentration of highly-educated millennials in the workforce (those with a graduate degree).

 

Beyond this so-called ‘brain gain,’ the statistics show a higher concentration of millennial residents overall, regardless of education. In 2013, 24 percent of Greater Cleveland’s population was comprised of millennials (ages 18-34), up from 20 percent in 2006.

 

More at:

https://www.clevelandfoundation.org/news_items/millennial-residents/

 

Can't wait to see @KJP's updated article!!

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3 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

I think it's a reflection of many of the reporters conducting historical research but lacking the historical perspective.  A lot of the results must be placed within the appropriate historical context. The Kucinich administration was one, but there have been issues with education, transportation, economics, as well as hostile local and state politicians, all of which impact those relocation decisions.

Don't, for one minute, think that schools, the economy and transportation are all great in metro Atlanta. They have some of the worst Schools and Transportation in the country. The economy might just be one click above Cleveland and not by much. Atlanta just lost SunTrust Bank HQ to Charlotte, NC. They need a replacement and are probably throwing everything and the kitchen sink at SHW. Before anyone calls me out on this, don't bother, I live in Atlanta. 😉 Cleveland bred, Cleveland raised. Go Browns. 

Edited by Tarblooder14
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21 minutes ago, John D. Baumgardner said:

 

I'm probably one of this city's most loyal and ardent supporters ...

 

I was born in Cleveland and will probably die here, but facts are facts.

 

I absolutely love and cherish this city ... But to overlook the realities that impact Cleveland is rather short-sighted.

 

In a statement from Sherwin-Williams it has been indicated that they want their future home to be in a place where there will be significant resources and an easily tapped pool of future talent as the company continues to grow. I believe that the company will likely stay here, but there's always still a chance that they won't.

 

For decades this city has dwindled in population and sadly this isn't going to change in our lifetime. The so-called "brain drain" from the region is quite irrefutable and very real. Even in my own personal sphere of friend's, I have had to say goodbye to friend's who had to leave due to limited opportunities in their field of work or expertise.

 

It's wonderful that companies like Sherwin-Williams and Progressive can attract highly educated talent to our city - but these aforementioned companies can not and will not sustain an entire metropolitan area and outlying region.

 

Let's just hope a gleaming new tower or corporate campus will soon be announced for those unsightly parking lot's adjacent to Public Square.

What are you talking about? No one said anything about “the aforementioned companies sustaining an entire metropolitan area and outlying region”. I said (and it’s a FACT) that Sherwin Williams has been able to be successful for decades being in Cleveland and attracting the talent that they want to Cleveland. That’s a FACT. If it wasn’t working, they either would’ve left a long time ago OR they wouldn’t be as successful as they are today. All you have to do is look at the balance sheet to see how well they’re doing. Bottom line, if they leave (which they won’t, but if they do) they’re doing it because they WANT to, not because they HAVE to. Because they clearly don’t have to. 
 

When I complain about the low self esteem and the cap we put on our own ambitions, THIS is what I’m talking about folks. I HATE that Woe is us, we can’t compete, we’re the ugly girl at the party syndrome and that crap becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. Yes the region has our problems. No one on this forum ever denies that. But damn it this is still a great city and a great region and we CAN compete. Stop acting like we can’t. SHW literally became a billion dollar business and have been in Cleveland since their founding. They’re winning right now. Stop being scared of our own damn shadow and believe in yourselves, for ONCE.

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5 minutes ago, Tarblooder14 said:

Don't, for one minute, think that schools, the economy and transportation are all great in metro Atlanta. They have some of the worst Schools and Transportation in the country. The economy might just be one click above Cleveland and not by much. Atlanta just lost SunTrust Bank HQ to Charlotte, NC. They need a replacement and are probably throw everything and the kitchen sink at SHW. Before anyone calls me out on this, don't bother, I live in Atlanta. 😉 Cleveland bred, Cleveland raised. Go Browns. 

I think upthread there's a comment that no place is perfect. That would include ATL.

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If you were born and raised in Cleveland, you also acquired its values. You are polite, courteous, respect your elders, hold doors, say hello, etc.  I was born in Cleveland, but live in Miami. While there is no income tax and the weather is great, people are rude, feel entitled, are discourteous, horrible drivers, are self-centered and external beauty focused; their insides need a lot of work. Unfortunately there are also a few on these threads that exhibit some of the same characteristics.

 

I would much rather have my Cleveland upbringing and values.  So while Cleveland may have its issues and challenges, so does every place else. 

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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20 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

What are you talking about? No one said anything about “the aforementioned companies sustaining an entire metropolitan area and outlying region”. I said (and it’s a FACT) that Sherwin Williams has been able to be successful for decades being in Cleveland and attracting the talent that they want to Cleveland. That’s a FACT. If it wasn’t working, they either would’ve left a long time ago OR they wouldn’t be as successful as they are today. All you have to do is look at the balance sheet to see how well they’re doing. Bottom line, if they leave (which they won’t, but if they do) they’re doing it because they WANT to, not because they HAVE to. Because they clearly don’t have to. 
 

When I complain about the low self esteem and the cap we put on our own ambitions, THIS is what I’m talking about folks. I HATE that Woe is us, we can’t compete, we’re the ugly girl at the party syndrome and that crap becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. Yes the region has our problems. No one on this forum ever denies that. But damn it this is still a great city and a great region and we CAN compete. Stop acting like we can’t. SHW literally became a billion dollar business and have been in Cleveland since their founding. They’re winning right now. Stop being scared of our own damn shadow and believe in yourselves, for ONCE.

In before this is thrown out, but as a transplant, I never got why people FROM Cleveland constantly go out of their way to sh*t on the place (pardon my language, but not really). Cleveland isn't NYC, Chicago, or LA, but who cares - we're Cleveland and we have a world class orchestra, museums, architecture and the list can go on. The reason why people go off on Cleveland so much is arguably more to do with our own opinions of the place over what others think. Similar to how therapists urge folks to think inwardly in a positive versus negative way, our people need to do the same. It's hard to defend a place when people are cynics to the n-th degree. I used to host folks through Airbnb and made sure to be an ambassador to my adopted city, and because of that I'd say 95% of people came away with a positive impression, and who cares about that other 5% coastie population anyways, we don't need them.

 

This comment will certainly get wiped out and should be in the "For the Love of CLE" thread or somewhere else, but sure, we lost population and the 70s-00's were rough times for the Rust Belt in general, but if we can hold down S-W, keep growing current businesses, and attract new folks, there's no reason we can't continue to have a resurgence a la Pittsburgh, MPLS, and the like.

 

With that, I shall take a breath.

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7 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

 While there is no income tax and the weather is great, people are rude, feel entitled, are discourteous, horrible drivers, are self-centered and external beauty focused; their insides need a lot of work.

 

There's an awful lot of ex-New York City folks intermingled with the native SE Floridians!    They rub off!  

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To the self-loathing Clevelanders here trying to still offer conjecture that they're going to move.... SHW is staying soo..... ?

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37 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

What are you talking about? No one said anything about “the aforementioned companies sustaining an entire metropolitan area and outlying region”. I said (and it’s a FACT) that Sherwin Williams has been able to be successful for decades being in Cleveland and attracting the talent that they want to Cleveland. That’s a FACT. If it wasn’t working, they either would’ve left a long time ago OR they wouldn’t be as successful as they are today. All you have to do is look at the balance sheet to see how well they’re doing. Bottom line, if they leave (which they won’t, but if they do) they’re doing it because they WANT to, not because they HAVE to. Because they clearly don’t have to. 
 

When I complain about the low self esteem and the cap we put on our own ambitions, THIS is what I’m talking about folks. I HATE that Woe is us, we can’t compete, we’re the ugly girl at the party syndrome and that crap becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. Yes the region has our problems. No one on this forum ever denies that. But damn it this is still a great city and a great region and we CAN compete. Stop acting like we can’t. SHW literally became a billion dollar business and have been in Cleveland since their founding. They’re winning right now. Stop being scared of our own damn shadow and believe in yourselves, for ONCE.

 

I totally understand--and agree with--your perspective, but I don't think John was saying "woe is us."  I think it's a fair point that historically speaking, Northeast Ohio experienced a "brain drain" and statistically lagged behind other metro areas in population and job growth.  There are many reasons for that, but that's outside the topic of this thread.

 

Turning back to the subject, while no one thinks a single Fortune 500 corporation's decision is going to make or break any major city, I am looking forward to what could be a major transformative project--not seen here since the early 90s when Gateway was developed.

Edited by PaxtonMarley
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45 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

What are you talking about? No one said anything about “the aforementioned companies sustaining an entire metropolitan area and outlying region”. I said (and it’s a FACT) that Sherwin Williams has been able to be successful for decades being in Cleveland and attracting the talent that they want to Cleveland. That’s a FACT. If it wasn’t working, they either would’ve left a long time ago OR they wouldn’t be as successful as they are today. All you have to do is look at the balance sheet to see how well they’re doing. Bottom line, if they leave (which they won’t, but if they do) they’re doing it because they WANT to, not because they HAVE to. Because they clearly don’t have to. 
 

When I complain about the low self esteem and the cap we put on our own ambitions, THIS is what I’m talking about folks. I HATE that Woe is us, we can’t compete, we’re the ugly girl at the party syndrome and that crap becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. Yes the region has our problems. No one on this forum ever denies that. But damn it this is still a great city and a great region and we CAN compete. Stop acting like we can’t. SHW literally became a billion dollar business and have been in Cleveland since their founding. They’re winning right now. Stop being scared of our own damn shadow and believe in yourselves, for ONCE.

 

SHW has actually had some difficulty attracting and retaining talent in some areas, for example IT.  But not because they are located in Cleveland.  While salary and retirement benefits are competitive, other factors such as little time off, inflexible remote work policies, no paternity leave, etc are incredibly outdated.  If Sherwin wants to take the next step and really attract hungry young higher educated individuals, they have to start competing on work/life benefits.  The new headquarters alone (regardless of location) will not magically solve this issue.
 

Edited by mike71884
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